Yeah life loss it's absolutely a problem though not every deck has access to MB helix. If you're expecting a lot of burn decks it might be a good idea to move a timely reinforcements to the main. Personally I don't play a lot against burn, so helix is enough for me. I must have a couple of copies of celestial flare around (from the elspeth vs kiora duel deck), so I'm going to try a copy (before my bribery arrives).
Why run Timely maindeck before maxing out on Helixes?
Doesn't make much sense to me. Helix is more versatile, does a ton more things, and is even better vs Burn due to instant speed. Timely seems more like a solid sideboard card to me.
Well in terms of pure mana efficiency I think Timely provides more bang for the buck than helix, however the effects are sort of apples and oranges (removal vs. blockers).
What I like (theoretically) about a MD timely is that with our manabase we are often at a lower life total, and of course our deck means we have fewer creatures. So getting the full benefit from timely, and curving into Nahiri, means we have blockers on board the turn that we tap out.
Also there is the manabase problem. Getting RW absolutely early, while also ensuring I have blue for counters and UU Cliques + UUU Cryptics means I am probably shocking aggressively. So the lifegain from Helix pretty much negated. Timely on the otherhand is a single W, which is much more reasonable by turn 3.
Not to mention having Nahiri rewards playing situationally powerful singleton cards since you can pitch them to her +2.
Then again I haven't been able to test recently so you might be right about just upping the helix numbers. I was moreso just grumbling about how much damage I seem to be taking to get my mana online in a timely manner.
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I imagine the title and summary (Two-Time Pro Tour Finalist Shaun McLaren loves him some Jeskai, but the deck's stock is already falling after its recent victory! Find out why Shaun thinks this is a new reality and what lists he's brewing to counteract the metagame!) are meant to be click-bait-y, but is there anything of interest in Shaun McLaren's SCG Premium article "The Jeskai is Falling"?
I imagine the title and summary (Two-Time Pro Tour Finalist Shaun McLaren loves him some Jeskai, but the deck's stock is already falling after its recent victory! Find out why Shaun thinks this is a new reality and what lists he's brewing to counteract the metagame!) are meant to be click-bait-y, but is there anything of interest in Shaun McLaren's SCG Premium article "The Jeskai is Falling"?
What does his decklist look like? (Don't have premium)
Lightning Helix will never give you a board presence if you need one, and sometimes that board presence is better than the life you may gain from a Helix.
I think that if you are playing with the full Nahiri package, Timely Reinforcements can be better than Lightning Helix. If you curve Timely into Nahiri, you not only gain the 6 off of Timely, you also force them to choose between dedicating resources to attacking your or Nahiri (further taking pressure off of you) and the 3 tokens can often protect Nahiri for more turns than just the 1 removal spell will (allowing you to close out the game with her). I think you are absolutely right if you aren't playing Nahiri the helices are better. However, I think that when you play her you don't want to just shove her into the old shell and call it a day, I think crafting your deck to put your opponent into a lose/lose is better, and that's where Timely shines. They either dedicate so many resources to killing her (letting you pull ahead) or don't deal with her and die anyway.
I imagine the title and summary (Two-Time Pro Tour Finalist Shaun McLaren loves him some Jeskai, but the deck's stock is already falling after its recent victory! Find out why Shaun thinks this is a new reality and what lists he's brewing to counteract the metagame!) are meant to be click-bait-y, but is there anything of interest in Shaun McLaren's SCG Premium article "The Jeskai is Falling"?
It is indeed a click bait title. I have premium from Charlotte, so I got to read it; in the comments he admits it himself (well...kinda; he's pretty serious about what he wrote; he's not trying to trick anyone -- just spun the title so that way it'd sound more interesting). To be fair, he does mention that Francis made 9th place. Here's the direct copy-pasta of the two comments:
Sheridan Lardner · Data and Program Evaluation Manager at Alternatives, Inc.
"I enjoyed the analysis of Jeskai as a strategy, but think the discussion about "Jeskai decks currently struggling to put up results" is really off-base. Francis missed the GP T8 by .018 on breakers, and if .018 is the difference between "struggling" and "viable" we need to re-examine our definition of competitiveness. Jeskai decks also saw more collective paper play in May than every deck except Infect, Jund, and RG Tron, and was the third most-played Day 2 deck at the GPs. The deck over-performed its Day 2 rate into the Top 32 and matched its rate going into the Top 16. Overall, Jeskai may have room to grow, but it's very well-positioned from a metagame standpoint as we go into June."
Unlike · Reply · 4 · 16 hrs
Shaun McLaren:
"I agree with what you're saying I also think the deck was hyped up and failed to live up to the hype.
If it's one of the most played decks and failing to put up Top 8's (even though it's an arbitrary cut off point) that supports that idea. But the sample size is small and not that revealing.
From a writing standpoint I think it's more interesting if I frame it as “The Jeskai is falling! Jeskai isn't dominating here's what I think needs to happen to propel it to the top.” rather than “Everything is pretty much average, Jeskai is decent, here's my lists, carry on with your life!” Either way the meat of the article would've been the same.
I imagine the title and summary (Two-Time Pro Tour Finalist Shaun McLaren loves him some Jeskai, but the deck's stock is already falling after its recent victory! Find out why Shaun thinks this is a new reality and what lists he's brewing to counteract the metagame!) are meant to be click-bait-y, but is there anything of interest in Shaun McLaren's SCG Premium article "The Jeskai is Falling"?
What does his decklist look like? (Don't have premium)
Three deck lists, actually. General theme is that he's trying to see if he can move away from Ancestral Vision and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Apparently he doesn't really like AV, and he thinks Emmy is kind of a dead draw. He'd rather sideboard the card instead; idk if that makes any sense -- I think it's a play main or bust, honestly (siding it out is fine; siding it in seems sketch).
Jeskai Control (His personal take on Francis Cellona's list)
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
You are completely correct. Siding Emrakul in doesn't make any sense.
The opportunity cost of having a potentially dead draw is outweighed, to a degree that I would say is statistically significant, by the fact that you can just win free games. Twin offered the same thing, albeit faster. Games that you have no right winning just get dealt with game 1 because your opponent cant deal with a 6 loyalty PW. While on the flipside the chance you draw Emrakul instead of "random card x" AND have that potential card decide the game is not very likely.
I can get on board with the kiki-control kinda. From what I have seen the kiki+nahiri combo just looks much smoother in the 4 color kiki-chord builds. Granted they are different playstyles, but you can get some pretty wonky draws if you load up on a bunch of combo pieces.
I hope, for everyones sake, that he literally called that list jeskai 'aggro'. Adding 2 V-cliques, and a cryptic command...
His split on permission spells is sort of interesting. It shows he doesn't put as much stock in Spell Snare as one might think.
Also lol at Sheridan dropping the fact hammer.
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It is indeed a click bait title. I have premium from Charlotte, so I got to read it; in the comments he admits it himself (well...kinda; he's pretty serious about what he wrote; he's not trying to trick anyone -- just spun the title so that way it'd sound more interesting).
Indeed. I noticed that comment (and Shaun's response) as well (I think Shaun's response was after I posted my question, but am not sure.) I suppose it's effective, at least...
@Titus0: Thanks for the information! Seems a bit underwhelming. I can only hope there is more substantive discussion to warrant the 'premium' status.
The 'aggro' approach is interesting, but I wonder why there are even two copies of Nahiri instead of simply bringing Geist of Saint Traft or Restoration Angel into the main deck. Card selection is good, but if it's really an 'aggro' approach wouldn't we just rather have Restoration Angel (+ Snapcaster/Vendilion = value) or Geist (beatdown)? Unless the idea is to put the 'fear of Emrakul' into people even though it isn't in the deck... Which would be an interesting idea, at least, but also sort of implies that Emrakul is good.
And also another thing: from reading you I get the idea that you may be playing your lands too aggressively. I usually don't need to shock myself that much. I believe it was you telling me I was running too many taplands. But turn 1 Colonnade is another good way to reduce your life loss. I mean we're still a reactive deck, we don't need to be overly aggressive when playing lands unless you're playing against decks like Infect or Grishoalbrand.
Sry forgot to reply to this.
I can't remember the post that I made, but I know I mostly mention taplands when considering AV. Having a bunch of ETB tapped lands isn't conducive to the very important turn 1 suspend AV.
You may be right though. My local meta is probably slanted more aggressive. There are a bunch of Burn, Infect, Affinity, Merfolk, and Zoo; not to mention a bunch of green midrange decks (with a few tron players sprinkled in). Most everyone is a spike, and knows that beating my jeskai variant is about going under with efficient threats. If I can't efficiently defend myself in the early turns (ie. cast all my spells); then I will get run over.
So I constantly have to ask myself: "is it worth losing out on being able to play a spell I draw to save life right now by fetching a basic?" Sometimes it is yes, but most times it is no.
It might also be a deckbuilding error on my part. If you look at my list I include 2 V-cliques, an Anger of the Gods, Cryptics, and Nahiri. So at every point in the curve I have pretty steep color requirements. Maybe I need to streamline things a bit (ie. not so many double/triple blue cards).
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been thinking of removing 1 clique for a keranos with all the bg/x in my meta.
Also thinking of changing the serum to 4 AV but ive heard that might be a bad idea.....
anyways as you can see there is no room to run 4 helix MB unless I want to take out verdict which isnt happening because my meta is full of coco decks.
been thinking of removing 1 clique for a keranos with all the bg/x in my meta.
Also thinking of changing the serum to 4 AV but ive heard that might be a bad idea.....
anyways as you can see there is no room to run 4 helix MB unless I want to take out verdict which isnt happening because my meta is full of coco decks.
also after sideboard burn is certainly doable.
you could play all 4 helix in the sb
i like all four or none in my decks
you buy time with the life gain...sure
but otherwise its a overpriced bolt
the more 1cmc stuff u have the easier the first 3 turns are
i tend to play some amount of burst lightning to have bolts 5-x to increase my odds of seeing a 1cmc burn card for a lot of match ups
more 1cmc spells equals turn 2 serum with action available instead of nothing and holding up a helix to react
personal preference is 2-4 anger of the gods main board depending on the meta over supreme verdict (which i keep some number of wraths in the sb because u need them in some matches)
my reasoning for anger (besides the exile bonus) is that we want a turn 3 answer to the board into turn 4 nahiri. we dont have lingering souls to clog up the board before nahiri comes down unless you are trying out ari lax's deck choice (i do not because there is a few too many blood moon decks in my lgs)
im not sure if everyone feels this way. this is just how i like to play vs my field
good luck in your emrasmashing
p.s. AV is best in grixis
burn is fairly easy to interact with. you just need to play smart with your life and bring in your dispel/negate/timely or if u take my advise pull in the 4 helix
on keranos...always have at least 1 in the 75. he can just pulverize the right match ups
you could play all 4 helix in the sb
i like all four or none in my decks
Any reasoning to back up that theory? I think any number 0-4 has some amount of justification with 2-3 seeming most reasonable based on the number of creature decks, safety against the burn match up and a win con with Snapcaster.
on keranos...always have at least 1 in the 75. he can just pulverize the right match ups
This also has no justification. Keranos is close to unplayable. The G/B/x match-up is already fair and this singleton isn't impactful enough to swing the match-up much percentage wise. If you are able to have the card in hand and hit all five land drops you tap out for this...and then nothing happens. On T6 you might draw a card (but rats I needed to bolt the confidant), you might get a bolt (that doesn't stop Tarmogoyf dang it!) and so on. Even on T8 if you drew three extra cards it was worse than paying the same 5 mana for Tidings, which would have drawn all three cards right away. It only really becomes a good deal if you get it out ASAP and it flips lots of bolts.
Considering AV is G/B worst nightmare you should probably sideboard that, if you aren;t already playing that. In the opening hand it's much better than Keranos and even on T4 it's drawing you 3 cards before Keranos is going to pay you off.
I don't see any lists running Keranos and I think those folks are right. Pet cards are the devil!
Any way to build the list to be able to beat tron, jund and merfolk? I have all the cards but I'm really stuck.. Been thinking of incorporating blood moon into the main, but 3 colors with blood moon makes me have to make one of the color really really really a small splash to be possible.. Have anyone tried thing in the ice with Nahiri package?
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you could play all 4 helix in the sb
i like all four or none in my decks
Any reasoning to back up that theory?
It's the next few sentences after your quote.
And concerning Keranos... You are only aiming your analysis for gb/x....this i agree with 100%. But I have it for different match ups...a resolved keranos has no permanent answer in control match ups save purge (which they use on nahiri mostly) and that becomes your pressure while you exchange cardboard.
Also nahiri can find keranos if emra isnt an option (looking at bridge mostly)
Also to mirror your tidings thinking...is there a card that does 9 damage for 5 mana.
you could play all 4 helix in the sb
i like all four or none in my decks
Any reasoning to back up that theory?
It's the next few sentences after your quote.
And concerning Keranos... You are only aiming your analysis for gb/x....this i agree with 100%. But I have it for different match ups...a resolved keranos has no permanent answer in control match ups save purge (which they use on nahiri mostly) and that becomes your pressure while you exchange cardboard.
Also nahiri can find keranos if emra isnt an option (looking at bridge mostly)
Also to mirror your tidings thinking...is there a card that does 9 damage for 5 mana.
It you thinking of Keranos as 9 damage for 5 mana I'm not sure what to tell you. I'll restate again, Keranos is not a playable card in top tier Jeskai lists. G/B decks are decent match-ups now. Running him to bring in against control is also bizarre. The match up should already be around 50% considering they are mirrors. You shouldn't be sideboarding such low impact cards. Sideboard a card that swings percentages, like life gain against burn, Stony Silence against Affinity, Spellskite for Infect and Boggles, Crumble to Dust vs. Tron. These cards swing percentages.
Keranos is a pet card from a past era. It was a singleton for Splinter Twin sideboards and occasionally Jeskai lists. With the addition of Ancestral Vision (or Nahiri take your pick) this card is obsolete.
Keranos is horrible in a meta where the sb are full of purge and the control mirror you can expect most of the times is jeskai.
It's one of my pet cards as well, but it's not playable @ a competetive lvl. The matchups we struggle against are tron, ad nauseam and scapeshift and to some degree landdestruction, elfes and merfolk or the mirror. Keranos helps in non of these games and is worse then elspeth against gbx decks.
I consider elves and Merfolk to be some of the better match-ups. The deck is all spot removal and sweeper.
bout time a Snapcaster deck made it back into the fray.
We should be favored against Elves and Merfolk. Elves has some pretty good tools for card advantage to stay with you into the lategame, but Nahiri or Resto-Kiki builds have a way to end the game. Merfolk can be a pain because of Spreading Seas can mess up our plans, and they have plenty of ways to invalidate our suite of counter spells; however we have enough spot removal to make the matchup even (if not slightly favorable for us).
I personally don't mind a single Keranos against grindy matchups. I think AV is a better option, but to be honest if you are playing AV then you need 3-4 for it to really make a difference in games. This seems like too steep a cost when sideboard slots are in such short supply these days.
So I would say Keranos is useful but...sub-optimal.
I think Elspeth, Sun's Champion or Chandra Flame Caller are better sideboard finisher options. Both provide an immediate impact against the board, card advantage (virtual or otherwise), and can kill on their own.
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Well in terms of pure mana efficiency I think Timely provides more bang for the buck than helix, however the effects are sort of apples and oranges (removal vs. blockers).
What I like (theoretically) about a MD timely is that with our manabase we are often at a lower life total, and of course our deck means we have fewer creatures. So getting the full benefit from timely, and curving into Nahiri, means we have blockers on board the turn that we tap out.
Also there is the manabase problem. Getting RW absolutely early, while also ensuring I have blue for counters and UU Cliques + UUU Cryptics means I am probably shocking aggressively. So the lifegain from Helix pretty much negated. Timely on the otherhand is a single W, which is much more reasonable by turn 3.
Not to mention having Nahiri rewards playing situationally powerful singleton cards since you can pitch them to her +2.
Then again I haven't been able to test recently so you might be right about just upping the helix numbers. I was moreso just grumbling about how much damage I seem to be taking to get my mana online in a timely manner.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)What does his decklist look like? (Don't have premium)
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
It is indeed a click bait title. I have premium from Charlotte, so I got to read it; in the comments he admits it himself (well...kinda; he's pretty serious about what he wrote; he's not trying to trick anyone -- just spun the title so that way it'd sound more interesting). To be fair, he does mention that Francis made 9th place. Here's the direct copy-pasta of the two comments:
Sheridan Lardner · Data and Program Evaluation Manager at Alternatives, Inc.
"I enjoyed the analysis of Jeskai as a strategy, but think the discussion about "Jeskai decks currently struggling to put up results" is really off-base. Francis missed the GP T8 by .018 on breakers, and if .018 is the difference between "struggling" and "viable" we need to re-examine our definition of competitiveness. Jeskai decks also saw more collective paper play in May than every deck except Infect, Jund, and RG Tron, and was the third most-played Day 2 deck at the GPs. The deck over-performed its Day 2 rate into the Top 32 and matched its rate going into the Top 16. Overall, Jeskai may have room to grow, but it's very well-positioned from a metagame standpoint as we go into June."
Unlike · Reply · 4 · 16 hrs
Shaun McLaren:
"I agree with what you're saying I also think the deck was hyped up and failed to live up to the hype.
If it's one of the most played decks and failing to put up Top 8's (even though it's an arbitrary cut off point) that supports that idea. But the sample size is small and not that revealing.
From a writing standpoint I think it's more interesting if I frame it as “The Jeskai is falling! Jeskai isn't dominating here's what I think needs to happen to propel it to the top.” rather than “Everything is pretty much average, Jeskai is decent, here's my lists, carry on with your life!” Either way the meat of the article would've been the same.
But you're absolutely right and good points!"
Three deck lists, actually. General theme is that he's trying to see if he can move away from Ancestral Vision and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Apparently he doesn't really like AV, and he thinks Emmy is kind of a dead draw. He'd rather sideboard the card instead; idk if that makes any sense -- I think it's a play main or bust, honestly (siding it out is fine; siding it in seems sketch).
Jeskai Control (His personal take on Francis Cellona's list)
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
Planeswalker:
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Spells:
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Path to Exile
2 Cryptic Command
1 Spell Snare
3 Electrolyze
2 Lightning Helix
2 Remand
4 Serum Visions
3 Mana Leak
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Sulfur Falls
4 Celestial Colonnade
1 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Flooded Strand
1 Mountain
2 Island
1 Plains
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Stony Silence
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Dispel
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Negate
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Wrath of God
Jeskai Aggro:
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
Spells:
3 Path to Exile
3 Cryptic Command
1 Spell Snare
2 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Helix
3 Remand
4 Serum Visions
2 Mana Leak
4 Lightning Bolt
Planeswalker:
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Lands:
1 Wandering Fumarole
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Sulfur Falls
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Flooded Strand
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Island
1 Crumble to Dust
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Wear
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Stony Silence
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Dispel
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Negate
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Wrath of God
Kiki Control:
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Creatures:
3 Restoration Angel
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Wall of Omens
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Spells:
1 Izzet Charm
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Path to Exile
2 Electrolyze
2 Lightning Helix
2 Remand
2 Serum Visions
2 Mana Leak
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Desolate Lighthouse
3 Celestial Colonnade
1 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Flooded Strand
1 Mountain
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Crumble to Dust
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Wear
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Stony Silence
1 Spellskite
1 Dispel
1 Celestial Purge
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Negate
1 Vendilion Clique
The opportunity cost of having a potentially dead draw is outweighed, to a degree that I would say is statistically significant, by the fact that you can just win free games. Twin offered the same thing, albeit faster. Games that you have no right winning just get dealt with game 1 because your opponent cant deal with a 6 loyalty PW. While on the flipside the chance you draw Emrakul instead of "random card x" AND have that potential card decide the game is not very likely.
I can get on board with the kiki-control kinda. From what I have seen the kiki+nahiri combo just looks much smoother in the 4 color kiki-chord builds. Granted they are different playstyles, but you can get some pretty wonky draws if you load up on a bunch of combo pieces.
I hope, for everyones sake, that he literally called that list jeskai 'aggro'. Adding 2 V-cliques, and a cryptic command...
His split on permission spells is sort of interesting. It shows he doesn't put as much stock in Spell Snare as one might think.
Also lol at Sheridan dropping the fact hammer.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Indeed. I noticed that comment (and Shaun's response) as well (I think Shaun's response was after I posted my question, but am not sure.) I suppose it's effective, at least...
@Titus0: Thanks for the information! Seems a bit underwhelming. I can only hope there is more substantive discussion to warrant the 'premium' status.
The 'aggro' approach is interesting, but I wonder why there are even two copies of Nahiri instead of simply bringing Geist of Saint Traft or Restoration Angel into the main deck. Card selection is good, but if it's really an 'aggro' approach wouldn't we just rather have Restoration Angel (+ Snapcaster/Vendilion = value) or Geist (beatdown)? Unless the idea is to put the 'fear of Emrakul' into people even though it isn't in the deck... Which would be an interesting idea, at least, but also sort of implies that Emrakul is good.
Sry forgot to reply to this.
I can't remember the post that I made, but I know I mostly mention taplands when considering AV. Having a bunch of ETB tapped lands isn't conducive to the very important turn 1 suspend AV.
You may be right though. My local meta is probably slanted more aggressive. There are a bunch of Burn, Infect, Affinity, Merfolk, and Zoo; not to mention a bunch of green midrange decks (with a few tron players sprinkled in). Most everyone is a spike, and knows that beating my jeskai variant is about going under with efficient threats. If I can't efficiently defend myself in the early turns (ie. cast all my spells); then I will get run over.
So I constantly have to ask myself: "is it worth losing out on being able to play a spell I draw to save life right now by fetching a basic?" Sometimes it is yes, but most times it is no.
It might also be a deckbuilding error on my part. If you look at my list I include 2 V-cliques, an Anger of the Gods, Cryptics, and Nahiri. So at every point in the curve I have pretty steep color requirements. Maybe I need to streamline things a bit (ie. not so many double/triple blue cards).
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)This has been my list as of late and im quite fond of it.
4 snap
4 nahiri
1 emrakul 9
4 bolt
4 path
4 serum
2 helix
2 electrolyze 26
2 leak
2 remand
2 snare
2 cryptic
2 verdict
25 land
2 quarter
sb
3 stony
2 dispel
2 negate 15
2 ee
2 relic
2 timely
2 clique
been thinking of removing 1 clique for a keranos with all the bg/x in my meta.
Also thinking of changing the serum to 4 AV but ive heard that might be a bad idea.....
anyways as you can see there is no room to run 4 helix MB unless I want to take out verdict which isnt happening because my meta is full of coco decks.
also after sideboard burn is certainly doable.
decks playing:
none
you could play all 4 helix in the sb
i like all four or none in my decks
you buy time with the life gain...sure
but otherwise its a overpriced bolt
the more 1cmc stuff u have the easier the first 3 turns are
i tend to play some amount of burst lightning to have bolts 5-x to increase my odds of seeing a 1cmc burn card for a lot of match ups
more 1cmc spells equals turn 2 serum with action available instead of nothing and holding up a helix to react
personal preference is 2-4 anger of the gods main board depending on the meta over supreme verdict (which i keep some number of wraths in the sb because u need them in some matches)
my reasoning for anger (besides the exile bonus) is that we want a turn 3 answer to the board into turn 4 nahiri. we dont have lingering souls to clog up the board before nahiri comes down unless you are trying out ari lax's deck choice (i do not because there is a few too many blood moon decks in my lgs)
im not sure if everyone feels this way. this is just how i like to play vs my field
good luck in your emrasmashing
p.s. AV is best in grixis
burn is fairly easy to interact with. you just need to play smart with your life and bring in your dispel/negate/timely or if u take my advise pull in the 4 helix
on keranos...always have at least 1 in the 75. he can just pulverize the right match ups
Any reasoning to back up that theory? I think any number 0-4 has some amount of justification with 2-3 seeming most reasonable based on the number of creature decks, safety against the burn match up and a win con with Snapcaster.
This also has no justification. Keranos is close to unplayable. The G/B/x match-up is already fair and this singleton isn't impactful enough to swing the match-up much percentage wise. If you are able to have the card in hand and hit all five land drops you tap out for this...and then nothing happens. On T6 you might draw a card (but rats I needed to bolt the confidant), you might get a bolt (that doesn't stop Tarmogoyf dang it!) and so on. Even on T8 if you drew three extra cards it was worse than paying the same 5 mana for Tidings, which would have drawn all three cards right away. It only really becomes a good deal if you get it out ASAP and it flips lots of bolts.
Considering AV is G/B worst nightmare you should probably sideboard that, if you aren;t already playing that. In the opening hand it's much better than Keranos and even on T4 it's drawing you 3 cards before Keranos is going to pay you off.
I don't see any lists running Keranos and I think those folks are right. Pet cards are the devil!
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
It's the next few sentences after your quote.
And concerning Keranos... You are only aiming your analysis for gb/x....this i agree with 100%. But I have it for different match ups...a resolved keranos has no permanent answer in control match ups save purge (which they use on nahiri mostly) and that becomes your pressure while you exchange cardboard.
Also nahiri can find keranos if emra isnt an option (looking at bridge mostly)
Also to mirror your tidings thinking...is there a card that does 9 damage for 5 mana.
It you thinking of Keranos as 9 damage for 5 mana I'm not sure what to tell you. I'll restate again, Keranos is not a playable card in top tier Jeskai lists. G/B decks are decent match-ups now. Running him to bring in against control is also bizarre. The match up should already be around 50% considering they are mirrors. You shouldn't be sideboarding such low impact cards. Sideboard a card that swings percentages, like life gain against burn, Stony Silence against Affinity, Spellskite for Infect and Boggles, Crumble to Dust vs. Tron. These cards swing percentages.
Keranos is a pet card from a past era. It was a singleton for Splinter Twin sideboards and occasionally Jeskai lists. With the addition of Ancestral Vision (or Nahiri take your pick) this card is obsolete.
I consider elves and Merfolk to be some of the better match-ups. The deck is all spot removal and sweeper.
For more information on the May metagame update, please check this post in the Metagame Thread:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/566735-modern-metagame-discussion-thread-updated-6-7-2016?comment=1210
awwwww yissssssss~!
bout time a Snapcaster deck made it back into the fray.
We should be favored against Elves and Merfolk. Elves has some pretty good tools for card advantage to stay with you into the lategame, but Nahiri or Resto-Kiki builds have a way to end the game. Merfolk can be a pain because of Spreading Seas can mess up our plans, and they have plenty of ways to invalidate our suite of counter spells; however we have enough spot removal to make the matchup even (if not slightly favorable for us).
I personally don't mind a single Keranos against grindy matchups. I think AV is a better option, but to be honest if you are playing AV then you need 3-4 for it to really make a difference in games. This seems like too steep a cost when sideboard slots are in such short supply these days.
So I would say Keranos is useful but...sub-optimal.
I think Elspeth, Sun's Champion or Chandra Flame Caller are better sideboard finisher options. Both provide an immediate impact against the board, card advantage (virtual or otherwise), and can kill on their own.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
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