I don't think Ancestral Vision does anything to our deck. It's only good in the first 3 turns, but is otherwise useless. If you're running it, which I think is quite a bad idea, going above 3 copies sounds incredibly risky.
However, I agree that this is big for control mostly because Eye is finally gone, that bastard of a card. Now we can happily beat RG Tron after stopping the dreaded T3 Karn. UW Tron will remain unbeatable, which I think is important, since now RG doesn't seem like the de facto best variant. Sword of the Meek + Thopter Foundry could be a playable combo for the deck, but with so few ways to reliably get that combo out (no Enlightened Tutor, although there is Trinket Mage for the things) I feel like it's best leaving that to the UB/Esper Tezzerator decks.
I'm not confident we have to do anything drastic to our list, we almost certainly won't want to change direction entirely, but time will tell what sideboard we need. The meta will be quite different, and I'd be mindful of what Tezzerator decks will pop up.
I feel that is a valid way to look at it. I think this Ban list helped out Esper more then any other control deck. Cause they have more flex slots and can use the Thopter combo better with Tez. Also visions seems a lot better in a deck that can use hand disruption to slow your opponent down enough to where you can resolve 1 or 2 Visions in a game along side using thopter a lot.
You know guys I am not sure either, I think I'll be testing a cut to the Sphix's Rev too, maybe add in 3 AVs.... Testing will tell but it sure is exciting
I don't think Ancestral Vision does anything to our deck. It's only good in the first 3 turns, but is otherwise useless. If you're running it, which I think is quite a bad idea, going above 3 copies sounds incredibly risky.
However, I agree that this is big for control mostly because Eye is finally gone, that bastard of a card. Now we can happily beat RG Tron after stopping the dreaded T3 Karn. UW Tron will remain unbeatable, which I think is important, since now RG doesn't seem like the de facto best variant. Sword of the Meek + Thopter Foundry could be a playable combo for the deck, but with so few ways to reliably get that combo out (no Enlightened Tutor, although there is Trinket Mage for the Sword) I feel like it's best leaving that to the UB/Esper Tezzerator decks.
I'm not confident we have to do anything drastic to our list, we almost certainly won't want to change direction entirely, but time will tell what sideboard we need. The meta will be quite different, and I'd be mindful of what Tezzerator decks will pop up.
I disagree. I predict within a month UWR lists will run 4.
UWR wins the long game. Whether we are playing AV turn 1 or turn 4, there are plenty of spells in this deck to hold the opponent off. Verdicts, Remands, spot removal, etc. Then you reload your hand and start again. I will be jamming 4.
Thats the thing we have plenty of spells to hold an opponent off. But do we need more card draw? or do we need finishers? I run a TiTI list atm and I am not sure how AV will fit in the list. I want to be casting spells to make titi flip and a turn 1 AV that goes off on turn 5 seems nice if I get a late TiTi or to re fill the hand after flipping one. But I have cryptics and O.Commands for that also. So I feel jamming 4 of these may be hard to do in some list (maybe most list) with ought cutting important cards. also not being able to Flash it back with snaps or jace hurts. So running 4 may mean cutting down on your numbers of Jace or snaps.
So what decks are you beating with your 4 Ancestral Visions that you didn't already beat?
I agree with this a lot. Our tron match up already got a little better because they no longer have eye. If we can counter there t3 karn or t4 Ugin we buy are self time to start closing the game. I think Visions would be better in a esper style list. Maybe it will be good in a titi list I am not sure I feel we dont have enough flex slpots to put 3 AV's in. I mean Electrolyze to me seems like the weakest card main deck. So maybe those, but that might be a bad idea.
here is a sample list I tested month's ago when I picked up my visions. Is it optimal? of course not, but it's the best I could find for uwr at the time. I've tested sword of the meek as well, and I could not make it work in a uwr shell without it being super clunky. I think with visions, there might be way to make sword a thing. but I could never find a shell where it did not feel clunky. I'm sure there is a list for it somewhere.
Well at least Declaration in Stone is going to be a decent sideboard option for Tezzerator. Stall for a turn, get answer. Not even that, it just looks decent against anything really.
So what decks are you beating with your 4 Ancestral Visions that you didn't already beat?
I agree with this a lot. Our tron match up already got a little better because they no longer have eye. If we can counter there t3 karn or t4 Ugin we buy are self time to start closing the game. I think Visions would be better in a esper style list. Maybe it will be good in a titi list I am not sure I feel we dont have enough flex slpots to put 3 AV's in. I mean Electrolyze to me seems like the weakest card main deck. So maybe those, but that might be a bad idea.
I'd still keep Elyze for affinity and infect until the meta takes shape.
Well at least Declaration in Stone is going to be a decent sideboard option for Tezzerator. Stall for a turn, get answer. Not even that, it just looks decent against anything really.
Would we rather just run artifact hate to kill the foundry? they will already be running Disenchant cause Stony Silence will shut down the combo. So D.sphere seems poor. I feel we would just bring in cards that we would for affinity. Wear // tear and Stony Silence. Or some combo of cards like that.
Well at least Declaration in Stone is going to be a decent sideboard option for Tezzerator. Stall for a turn, get answer. Not even that, it just looks decent against anything really.
Would we rather just run artifact hate to kill the foundry? they will already be running Disenchant cause Stony Silence will shut down the combo. So D.sphere seems poor. I feel we would just bring in cards that we would for affinity. Wear // tear and Stony Silence. Or some combo of cards like that.
keep in mind, gy hate also stops the combo too. relic with sword trigger on the stack.
So what decks are you beating with your 4 Ancestral Visions that you didn't already beat?
Jund
But we can already beat Jund. Just run at least 3 copies of Elyze, Keranos mainboard, and possibly some angels, and you'll have yourself a good matchup without screwing over G1 against any other deck.
EDIT: Vision doesn't make us any better against Abzan, either.
Well at least Declaration in Stone is going to be a decent sideboard option for Tezzerator. Stall for a turn, get answer. Not even that, it just looks decent against anything really.
Would we rather just run artifact hate to kill the foundry? they will already be running Disenchant cause Stony Silence will shut down the combo. So D.sphere seems poor. I feel we would just bring in cards that we would for affinity. Wear // tear and Stony Silence. Or some combo of cards like that.
keep in mind, gy hate also stops the combo too. relic with sword trigger on the stack.
That is true. I feel like with affinity being as big as it is now and Lantern control a UB tezz deck or a esper tezz deck will have a hard time getting off the ground. I may be wrong about that. and I am not sure how well Visions will fit in a TiTi list I think it would be great but I am not sure what I should cut. This is my list atm
Crumble to Dust down to 1 copy, which is a precautionary measure. With Eye gone, there are less relevant targets, and we have more time to get it against Tron.
Crumble to Dust down to 1 copy, which is a precautionary measure. With Eye gone, there are less relevant targets, and we have more time to get it against Tron.
Yea this was before the ban was announced so I will prob cut all copies of crumbe for 2 more negates or maybe 1 more negate and a Gideon Jura in the side
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However, I agree that this is big for control mostly because Eye is finally gone, that bastard of a card. Now we can happily beat RG Tron after stopping the dreaded T3 Karn. UW Tron will remain unbeatable, which I think is important, since now RG doesn't seem like the de facto best variant. Sword of the Meek + Thopter Foundry could be a playable combo for the deck, but with so few ways to reliably get that combo out (no Enlightened Tutor, although there is Trinket Mage for the things) I feel like it's best leaving that to the UB/Esper Tezzerator decks.
I'm not confident we have to do anything drastic to our list, we almost certainly won't want to change direction entirely, but time will tell what sideboard we need. The meta will be quite different, and I'd be mindful of what Tezzerator decks will pop up.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
I am stuck between cutting Rev and an Elspeth or maybe a cryptic I am not sure where would be the best cuts.
"If it was easy, everyone would do it."
I disagree. I predict within a month UWR lists will run 4.
UWR wins the long game. Whether we are playing AV turn 1 or turn 4, there are plenty of spells in this deck to hold the opponent off. Verdicts, Remands, spot removal, etc. Then you reload your hand and start again. I will be jamming 4.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
I agree with this a lot. Our tron match up already got a little better because they no longer have eye. If we can counter there t3 karn or t4 Ugin we buy are self time to start closing the game. I think Visions would be better in a esper style list. Maybe it will be good in a titi list I am not sure I feel we dont have enough flex slpots to put 3 AV's in. I mean Electrolyze to me seems like the weakest card main deck. So maybe those, but that might be a bad idea.
4 Ancestral Vision
2 Mana Leak
4 Remand
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
3 Cryptic Command
1 Logic Knot
3 Electrolyze
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Steam Vents
2 Spell Snare
4 Path to Exile
4 Celestial Colonnade
3 Flooded Strand
2 Plains
2 Lightning Helix
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Vendilion Clique
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
I'd still keep Elyze for affinity and infect until the meta takes shape.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Would we rather just run artifact hate to kill the foundry? they will already be running Disenchant cause Stony Silence will shut down the combo. So D.sphere seems poor. I feel we would just bring in cards that we would for affinity. Wear // tear and Stony Silence. Or some combo of cards like that.
Jund
keep in mind, gy hate also stops the combo too. relic with sword trigger on the stack.
But we can already beat Jund. Just run at least 3 copies of Elyze, Keranos mainboard, and possibly some angels, and you'll have yourself a good matchup without screwing over G1 against any other deck.
EDIT: Vision doesn't make us any better against Abzan, either.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
That is true. I feel like with affinity being as big as it is now and Lantern control a UB tezz deck or a esper tezz deck will have a hard time getting off the ground. I may be wrong about that. and I am not sure how well Visions will fit in a TiTi list I think it would be great but I am not sure what I should cut. This is my list atm
4x Arid Mesa
4x Celestial Colonnade
1x Desolate Lighthouse
4x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
Sorcerys (2)
2x Supreme Verdict
Planeswalkers (1)
1x Chandra, Flamecaller
2x Cryptic Command
2x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
1x Logic Knot
2x Mana Leak
2x Ojutai's Command
4x Path to Exile
2x Spell Snare
1x Sphinx's Revelation
Creatures (9)
2x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Thing in the Ice
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Crumble to Dust
2x Dispel
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Negate
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2x Stony Silence
2x Worship
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Yea this was before the ban was announced so I will prob cut all copies of crumbe for 2 more negates or maybe 1 more negate and a Gideon Jura in the side