Playing Condemn with Kiki is a lot more viable option than using it with any other deck. The bad thing about Kiki is how weak it is unless you dedicate fully to the combo. There aren't any UWR Kiki decks to go by really because only a few UWR Control decks that have included Kiki have placed t16. Even with Eldrazi running amuck playing with Kiki makes us too weak against The decks that effectively beat Eldrazi. After testing the combo out with the lists that have shown up, I'm 100% sure you have to essentially play Twin to make it work. Given that kiki is a whole turn slower, it can be really difficult to get off before your dead.
I think the traditional UWR control lists are the way to go still, but it's probably smart to include Angel's. I've found that using Pia out of the sideboard helps stall dramatically against Eldrazi and if you are playing angel's the extra flicker has given me the game a few times. Basically allowing me to deal just enough damage when paired with the angel's and burn before they can kill me. Pia is great against any aggro deck as well so it makes that card a lot more relevant in the sideboard.
Edit: the only reason why a Kiki deck doesn't play Lighting Helix, is because of Wall of Omens. One replaces the other because they essentially do the exact same thing.
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Not so much our deck as much as UWR midrange. If your playing all those cards that's super value, and if angel's out you'll get an extra flicker after resolution. Combined with Pia that's a blowout. That card has the potential to push UWR midrange up in tier I think and maybe make it a premier deck of the format. I have already been testing that card out and it's just absolutely insane. It curves so well with Angels, Blade Splicer, walls, pia, finks, etc. I'm really looking forward to playing it in Modern in the future.
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Played at the Louisville regional with a pretty stock list (including 2 spreading seas). Went 1-2 round one against all in red (I was T1 blood mooned both losses), lost to straight UW control (they end up just having more counter/control), then lost to UR eldrazi and dropped. I felt like my eldrazi MU was about 50/50, and it was close, but obviously 50/50 still means losing half the time. Felt bad.
Ensnaring bridge isn't fantastic in this deck unfortunately, as we rarely empty our hand enough by turn 3.
Ghostly prison might be something worth considering though.
Ghostly prison does almost nothing. They can swing either way and the RG version has a ton of mana, I personally ran it and I was disappointed. Ensnaring Bridge is good, since we can have just 3 cards in hand and burn them fast, removing anything we can. There's a reason if it's going upstairs with the price.
Another difference is that Ensnaring Bridge comes in in other matches too, while Prison seems too pretentious. Not so many decks can deal with artifacts, and burning them out easily while they do nothing is good.
Have you even tried it? This is a legitimate question. I'm beginning to think you just like saying dumb stuff.
Went 4-0 last night at WNM. Beat infect, burn, mardu midrange, and GR Tron.
Beat burn due to him flooding probably. Second game he kept a weird hand with lands + molten vortex + a few burn spells. It was a weird game. I snap purged at one point to answer vortex.
Tron game 2 I got to counter 3 boils and keep him off Tron via ghost quarter and then got luckily the rest of the game. Blanked like 4 eggs in his hand via a turn 2 stony. Then got to play tap out and prey with Ajani Vengeant and a Baneslayer angel.
Infect went about how you expect it to go.
Mardu he drew into tons of removal after I answered his first threat. He ended up using removal to kill 3 of my colonnades. Ultimately ended up winning on the back of burn. Games 2 tamiyo and elspeth locked up the game for me after answered his lingering souls. He didn't find red mana until turn 5 or 6.
So is the Tron match up always just answer the first few threats and then start dropping threats while praying you don't die? Because that was such a miserable feeling of a place to be in.
once they get tron + eye of ugin online it's basically over, and we only have so many ghost quarters (I run 3) Post sideboard we have good hate in crumble to dust and stony silence. Ajani is really good against them though, often times denying them 3 mana per turn and hopefully buying you enough time to ultimate. People have been trying spreading seas in main to help with tron and eldrazi, while also killing random manlands from other decks.
Ghostly Prison hoses them so hard. I can't believe no one else is playing it. I'm running it in UWR Control and Wilted Abzan deck.
I've been running runed halo's and detention sphere against them, it hits a lot of decks so I've actually been putting the runed halos in my mainboard. Ghost quarter is really the staple anti aggro card, i couldnt see it being a total disaster to play.
With the expected ban of an Ancient Tomb land and neutering the Eldrazi archetype, I will be expecting a lot of Affinity, Burn, G/B/x and Infect matchups come April. How does this deck fare against these top tier decks? I'm asking this because I just acquired most of the deck's components via trade with a former Splinter Twin player.
With the expected ban of an Ancient Tomb land and neutering the Eldrazi archetype, I will be expecting a lot of Affinity, Burn, G/B/x and Infect matchups come April. How does this deck fare against these top tier decks? I'm asking this because I just acquired most of the deck's components via trade with a former Splinter Twin player.
UWR has always destroyed affinity, infect & burn, IMO if you remove the ups an downs between the two decks its actually quite hard to lose against them. I'm not nearly a professional player and I've made bad mistakes in tournament play and recovered against those decks. Besides that check out the last big data pull mtggolfish did on the modern metagame (i think its about 1/2year old) at that time UWR, although small in number, was one of the "winningest" decks.
It's a 50/50 against jund, and abzan.
It's horrendous against boggles, right now semi effective against eldrazi, and generally speaking if your up against something super grindy you may run out of cards before your opponent/lose.
With the expected ban of an Ancient Tomb land and neutering the Eldrazi archetype, I will be expecting a lot of Affinity, Burn, G/B/x and Infect matchups come April. How does this deck fare against these top tier decks? I'm asking this because I just acquired most of the deck's components via trade with a former Splinter Twin player.
UWR has always destroyed affinity, infect & burn, IMO if you remove the ups an downs between the two decks its actually quite hard to lose against them. I'm not nearly a professional player and I've made bad mistakes in tournament play and recovered against those decks. Besides that check out the last big data pull mtggolfish did on the modern metagame (i think its about 1/2year old) at that time UWR, although small in number, was one of the "winningest" decks.
It's a 50/50 against jund, and abzan.
It's horrendous against boggles, right now semi effective against eldrazi, and generally speaking if your up against something super grindy you may run out of cards before your opponent/lose.
With the expected ban of an Ancient Tomb land and neutering the Eldrazi archetype, I will be expecting a lot of Affinity, Burn, G/B/x and Infect matchups come April. How does this deck fare against these top tier decks? I'm asking this because I just acquired most of the deck's components via trade with a former Splinter Twin player.
UWR has always destroyed affinity, infect & burn, IMO if you remove the ups an downs between the two decks its actually quite hard to lose against them. I'm not nearly a professional player and I've made bad mistakes in tournament play and recovered against those decks. Besides that check out the last big data pull mtggolfish did on the modern metagame (i think its about 1/2year old) at that time UWR, although small in number, was one of the "winningest" decks.
It's a 50/50 against jund, and abzan.
It's horrendous against boggles, right now semi effective against eldrazi, and generally speaking if your up against something super grindy you may run out of cards before your opponent/lose.
It's really easy to give yourself a good game against the grindy decks. If you gear your mainboard towards specifically the BGx matchup (Affinity, Infect and Burn will always be pretty good matchups regardless), you should have a 55/45 game against BGx. Player skill obviously comes into the matchup a lot, but you can make it a lot easier for yourself with good deckbuilding. This was my tactic before the meta died, and I found the only weakness was dedicated combo (such as Ad Nauseam). Those can be helped with sideboard.
Bridge is pretty bad compared to prison in this deck. Prison does so much. It's slows the game significantly against Eldrazi. Forcing your opponent to choose to attack or to advance the board state. Prison is what I want right now.
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Bridge doesn't synergize well with the deck at all. We want lots of cards in hand. Bridge punishes you for having lots of cards in hand, which seems really pointless to me. Prison does enough with their mana to feel like you're affecting their plan without compromising your own.
With the expected ban of an Ancient Tomb land and neutering the Eldrazi archetype, I will be expecting a lot of Affinity, Burn, G/B/x and Infect matchups come April. How does this deck fare against these top tier decks? I'm asking this because I just acquired most of the deck's components via trade with a former Splinter Twin player.
UWR has always destroyed affinity, infect & burn, IMO if you remove the ups an downs between the two decks its actually quite hard to lose against them. I'm not nearly a professional player and I've made bad mistakes in tournament play and recovered against those decks. Besides that check out the last big data pull mtggolfish did on the modern metagame (i think its about 1/2year old) at that time UWR, although small in number, was one of the "winningest" decks.
It's a 50/50 against jund, and abzan.
It's horrendous against boggles, right now semi effective against eldrazi, and generally speaking if your up against something super grindy you may run out of cards before your opponent/lose.
It's really easy to give yourself a good game against the grindy decks. If you gear your mainboard towards specifically the BGx matchup (Affinity, Infect and Burn will always be pretty good matchups regardless), you should have a 55/45 game against BGx. Player skill obviously comes into the matchup a lot, but you can make it a lot easier for yourself with good deckbuilding. This was my tactic before the meta died, and I found the only weakness was dedicated combo (such as Ad Nauseam). Those can be helped with sideboard.
Yah I can agree to that, likely a slight edge to UWR in those matchups (55% is probably closer to right) but that last 10% is all skill based, i consider myself an average player so 50/50 for me.
Has anyone tried Gideon Jura? He has always been a useful card for this strategy against heavy aggro metas. Personally I have found it useful vs eldreezies. It is sweet at protecting you and if you protect him he can clear out a few guys, dismember doesn't kill him either. I also like detention sphere as abrupt decay isn't very popular rn and it tags creatures tokens artifacts and enchantments and planeswalkers. Also it doesn't trigger reality smasher.
Gideon Jura has been in my 75 since Splinter Twin became a "thing." I paired it with Jace, Architect of Thought, and they pretty much shut down aggro and the half of the Splinter Twin combo on their own. Not to mention, when you finally gain full control, you can unleash him as your win-con. I believe he used to be a mainstay for UW Control, but I'm not really sure of that. He always seems to be useful regardless of the situation. These days, you have to be more careful about when you turn him into a creature. It seems every deck is running Path to Exile now.
I think the traditional UWR control lists are the way to go still, but it's probably smart to include Angel's. I've found that using Pia out of the sideboard helps stall dramatically against Eldrazi and if you are playing angel's the extra flicker has given me the game a few times. Basically allowing me to deal just enough damage when paired with the angel's and burn before they can kill me. Pia is great against any aggro deck as well so it makes that card a lot more relevant in the sideboard.
Edit: the only reason why a Kiki deck doesn't play Lighting Helix, is because of Wall of Omens. One replaces the other because they essentially do the exact same thing.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Not so much our deck as much as UWR midrange. If your playing all those cards that's super value, and if angel's out you'll get an extra flicker after resolution. Combined with Pia that's a blowout. That card has the potential to push UWR midrange up in tier I think and maybe make it a premier deck of the format. I have already been testing that card out and it's just absolutely insane. It curves so well with Angels, Blade Splicer, walls, pia, finks, etc. I'm really looking forward to playing it in Modern in the future.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Ghostly prison might be something worth considering though.
UWR Control
Legacy:
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Have you even tried it? This is a legitimate question. I'm beginning to think you just like saying dumb stuff.
Beat burn due to him flooding probably. Second game he kept a weird hand with lands + molten vortex + a few burn spells. It was a weird game. I snap purged at one point to answer vortex.
Tron game 2 I got to counter 3 boils and keep him off Tron via ghost quarter and then got luckily the rest of the game. Blanked like 4 eggs in his hand via a turn 2 stony. Then got to play tap out and prey with Ajani Vengeant and a Baneslayer angel.
Infect went about how you expect it to go.
Mardu he drew into tons of removal after I answered his first threat. He ended up using removal to kill 3 of my colonnades. Ultimately ended up winning on the back of burn. Games 2 tamiyo and elspeth locked up the game for me after answered his lingering souls. He didn't find red mana until turn 5 or 6.
So is the Tron match up always just answer the first few threats and then start dropping threats while praying you don't die? Because that was such a miserable feeling of a place to be in.
I've been running runed halo's and detention sphere against them, it hits a lot of decks so I've actually been putting the runed halos in my mainboard. Ghost quarter is really the staple anti aggro card, i couldnt see it being a total disaster to play.
GWBoglesGW///URDelverUR WVial-knightsW
UWR has always destroyed affinity, infect & burn, IMO if you remove the ups an downs between the two decks its actually quite hard to lose against them. I'm not nearly a professional player and I've made bad mistakes in tournament play and recovered against those decks. Besides that check out the last big data pull mtggolfish did on the modern metagame (i think its about 1/2year old) at that time UWR, although small in number, was one of the "winningest" decks.
It's a 50/50 against jund, and abzan.
It's horrendous against boggles, right now semi effective against eldrazi, and generally speaking if your up against something super grindy you may run out of cards before your opponent/lose.
GWBoglesGW///URDelverUR WVial-knightsW
It's really easy to give yourself a good game against the grindy decks. If you gear your mainboard towards specifically the BGx matchup (Affinity, Infect and Burn will always be pretty good matchups regardless), you should have a 55/45 game against BGx. Player skill obviously comes into the matchup a lot, but you can make it a lot easier for yourself with good deckbuilding. This was my tactic before the meta died, and I found the only weakness was dedicated combo (such as Ad Nauseam). Those can be helped with sideboard.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Yah I can agree to that, likely a slight edge to UWR in those matchups (55% is probably closer to right) but that last 10% is all skill based, i consider myself an average player so 50/50 for me.
GWBoglesGW///URDelverUR WVial-knightsW
Gideon Jura has been in my 75 since Splinter Twin became a "thing." I paired it with Jace, Architect of Thought, and they pretty much shut down aggro and the half of the Splinter Twin combo on their own. Not to mention, when you finally gain full control, you can unleash him as your win-con. I believe he used to be a mainstay for UW Control, but I'm not really sure of that. He always seems to be useful regardless of the situation. These days, you have to be more careful about when you turn him into a creature. It seems every deck is running Path to Exile now.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T