Regardless of how bad the matchup is in theory, I've had a positive record against Tron. I run 2x Clique maindeck, and a third + Aven Mindcensor in the sideboard. The only way to consistently win is to apply pressure with flash creatures. Clique is the best by far, followed by Aven Mindcensor. In theory Meddling Mage would be good as well, though I've never tried it. I wouldn't bother with Geist as you're completely open when you tap out for it and it doesn't beat any of the threats they play. Maybe Karn, if that's the only card they have in hand. These decks also leave in Pyroclasm, which Clique and Mindcensor will still get value through. They may not even be exposed to it if you play them end step.
Regardless of how bad the matchup is in theory, I've had a positive record against Tron. I run 2x Clique maindeck, and a third + Aven Mindcensor in the sideboard. The only way to consistently win is to apply pressure with flash creatures. Clique is the best by far, followed by Aven Mindcensor. In theory Meddling Mage would be good as well, though I've never tried it. I wouldn't bother with Geist as you're completely open when you tap out for it and it doesn't beat any of the threats they play. Maybe Karn, if that's the only card they have in hand. These decks also leave in Pyroclasm, which Clique and Mindcensor will still get value through. They may not even be exposed to it if you play them end step.
This V. Clique is the best card against them followed by mindsensor. You want to play a tempo game sgainst tron and combo decks such as scapeshift. Clique also helped against bgx decks back then by sniping lili along with bolt sadly lingering souls makes that less likely.
anyone have any thoughts vs tron decks? just played against red green tron and got wrecked bad. couldn't stop what he did for long and mana leaks stopped working quickly, and remands only hold off the chaos. anyone know any good sideboard cards?
Stony Silence and Wear//Tear are both pretty good against Tron. You also need to use Tectonic Edge aggressively, and Shadow of Doubt if you have it.
They have so many other spells that essentially do the same thing as the map that extracting it won't help you very much. Just be down a card and likely won't effect the game.
Anyway, although they do have so many other spells that essentially do the same thing as the map, but doesn't just extracting one of them make the rest of them more "controllable"?
My logic is: Assuming there's 9 counters in our deck that can counter the assuming 12 cards that does the same thing in their deck, 4 of each, extracting once and it drop to only 8, making your 9 counter against their 8 outlet more favorable than 9 against 12.
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Ok. I'll ask a different question that might illustrate why Surgical Extraction isn't a card you want against decks with lots of redundant cards.
How much do you think extraction helps you in the Burn matchup? Extract their Lightning Bolts? How about extract both their Lightning Bolts and their Lava Spikes?
The card is good against certain kinds of combo decks. That's about it.
Ok. I'll ask a different question that might illustrate why Surgical Extraction isn't a card you want against decks with lots of redundant cards.
How much do you think extraction helps you in the Burn matchup? Extract their Lightning Bolts? How about extract both their Lightning Bolts and their Lava Spikes?
The card is good against certain kinds of combo decks. That's about it.
It depends on your meta whether you want a certain card to be in your sideboard doesn't it? Just cause the card would only be good against a certain kind of decks and not against the rest, doesn't makes it unworthy to be mentioned. Surgical one of their urza land after a ghost quarter or tectonic edge and sniping away their 1st big drop could slow them down too..
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Ok. I'll ask a different question that might illustrate why Surgical Extraction isn't a card you want against decks with lots of redundant cards.
How much do you think extraction helps you in the Burn matchup? Extract their Lightning Bolts? How about extract both their Lightning Bolts and their Lava Spikes?
The card is good against certain kinds of combo decks. That's about it.
It depends on your meta whether you want a certain card to be in your sideboard doesn't it? Just cause the card would only be good against a certain kind of decks and not against the rest, doesn't makes it unworthy to be mentioned. Surgical one of their urza land after a ghost quarter or tectonic edge and sniping away their 1st big drop could slow them down too..
Since you're playing red, I think it is much better to use Sowing Salt, which is a single card, rather than relying on a two card combo.
The reason I play a one of Deprive is when I go into the late game Mana Leak becomes atrocious. I used to play three Electrolyze and three Cryptic Commands post banning. Since they are pretty bad in a format revolving around killing your opponent on turn four. Since the format has slows down I've gone back up to four of each. Four Cryptic Commands makes Scapeshift, Tron, and Bloom easier match ups. I never feel like two Sphinx's Revelations is too much. I do end up siding them out a lot though. Not because they are bad in the matchup, but because I have better cards and don't need them. Such as RG Tron won't be out drawing me so I ditch them. I can totally understand shaving one Cryptic, Electrolyze, and Revelation though.
My local shop metagame isn't good for main deck Keranos. I wish I could main deck him though. Keranos isn't ideal against, Boggles, Affinity, Scapeshift, Tron, Bloom, and Storm. He's alright against Tron and Bloom, but I'm never fist pumping when I cast him against them though. Lol
Yeah. I usually have Keranos hanging out in the sideboard as he's pretty awkward in the aggressive matchups. I see a few of the sparse top8 lists maindecking him, which is why I suggested it. Likely popular due to abzan being big in the general meta.
Ok. I'll ask a different question that might illustrate why Surgical Extraction isn't a card you want against decks with lots of redundant cards.
How much do you think extraction helps you in the Burn matchup? Extract their Lightning Bolts? How about extract both their Lightning Bolts and their Lava Spikes?
The card is good against certain kinds of combo decks. That's about it.
It depends on your meta whether you want a certain card to be in your sideboard doesn't it? Just cause the card would only be good against a certain kind of decks and not against the rest, doesn't makes it unworthy to be mentioned. Surgical one of their urza land after a ghost quarter or tectonic edge and sniping away their 1st big drop could slow them down too..
Since you're playing red, I think it is much better to use Sowing Salt, which is a single card, rather than relying on a two card combo.
Surgical Extraction is one of my favourite cards and one day I'm gonna make UB mill work, but the #1 essential issue with it is that it is always card disadvantage unless you get lucky and hit a card in their hand. It does not influence the board and it brings you one card down against theirs.
If they ever print an Extirpate that makes you draw a card on top of it, I'd gladly pay UB for it, maybe even 1UB, but as it is now it just needs to downright win the game to not be a wasted card slot
Ok. I'll ask a different question that might illustrate why Surgical Extraction isn't a card you want against decks with lots of redundant cards.
How much do you think extraction helps you in the Burn matchup? Extract their Lightning Bolts? How about extract both their Lightning Bolts and their Lava Spikes?
The card is good against certain kinds of combo decks. That's about it.
It depends on your meta whether you want a certain card to be in your sideboard doesn't it? Just cause the card would only be good against a certain kind of decks and not against the rest, doesn't makes it unworthy to be mentioned. Surgical one of their urza land after a ghost quarter or tectonic edge and sniping away their 1st big drop could slow them down too..
Since you're playing red, I think it is much better to use Sowing Salt, which is a single card, rather than relying on a two card combo.
I've heard people criticise Sowing Salt for being too narrow, but I haven't heard anyone point out that it's CMC as an issue in modern.
First, we already play plenty of 4cmc spells. Second, it's not like Tron "combos" before turn 4 in the vast majority of games.
Also, can I point out that your main complaint against Sowing Salt is that it requires four lands in play, but you defend Extraction because it combines with Tectonic Edge to remove one of their Uzra lands from their deck?
No one is saying Surgical Extraction is a bad card. The effect is powerful. However, it's only really effective against certain types of decks. Mostly graveyard based combo decks.
This V. Clique is the best card against them followed by mindsensor. You want to play a tempo game sgainst tron and combo decks such as scapeshift. Clique also helped against bgx decks back then by sniping lili along with bolt sadly lingering souls makes that less likely.
2x Arid Mesa
+
-
4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
2x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Steam Vents
2x Tectonic Edge
Instant (26)
2x Anticipate
2x Cryptic Command
2x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
3x Mana Leak
4x Path to Exile
3x Remand
2x Sphinx's Revelation
Creature (5)
1x Keranos, God of Storms
4x Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalker (2)
1x Ajani Vengeant
1x Narset Transcendent
Sorcery (2)
2x Supreme Verdict
Sideboard (13)
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Counterflux
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Stony Silence
2x Threads of Disloyalty
1x Timely Reinforcements
2x Wear / Tear
I need opinions to transform my list in a better list, I want to keep him control ...
Play 26 lands
Stony Silence and Wear//Tear are both pretty good against Tron. You also need to use Tectonic Edge aggressively, and Shadow of Doubt if you have it.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
TappedOut
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Surgical Extraction is not a card you want to be playing in a control deck. Just snipe their search and be done with it.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
MAIN BOARD:
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Path to Exile
2x Lightning Helix
4x Electrolyze
1x Wrath of God
2x Supreme Verdict
3x Spell Snare
3x Mana Leak
1x Deprive
4x Cryptic Command
1x Shadow of Doubt
2x Sphinx's Revelation
1x Ajani Vengeant
3x Tectonic Edge
4x Celestial Colonade
1x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
2x Arid Mesa
2x Steam Vents
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Glacial Fortress
1x Sulfur Falls
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain
SIDE BOARD:
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Negate
2x Porphyry Nodes
2x Stony Silence
1x Celestial Purge
2x Wear//Tear
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Counterflux
1x Wrath of God
1x Keranos, God of Storms
Anyway, although they do have so many other spells that essentially do the same thing as the map, but doesn't just extracting one of them make the rest of them more "controllable"?
My logic is: Assuming there's 9 counters in our deck that can counter the assuming 12 cards that does the same thing in their deck, 4 of each, extracting once and it drop to only 8, making your 9 counter against their 8 outlet more favorable than 9 against 12.
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
How much do you think extraction helps you in the Burn matchup? Extract their Lightning Bolts? How about extract both their Lightning Bolts and their Lava Spikes?
The card is good against certain kinds of combo decks. That's about it.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Looks pretty good. You probably don't need 4x Cryptic, 4x Electrolyze or 2x Sphinx. I'd cut 1x of each. Also, Deprive isn't a very good card IMHO.
In the 4 slots opened up, I'd put the Clique mainboard. Possibly the Keranos as well. And lastly a couple Remand.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
It depends on your meta whether you want a certain card to be in your sideboard doesn't it? Just cause the card would only be good against a certain kind of decks and not against the rest, doesn't makes it unworthy to be mentioned. Surgical one of their urza land after a ghost quarter or tectonic edge and sniping away their 1st big drop could slow them down too..
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
Since you're playing red, I think it is much better to use Sowing Salt, which is a single card, rather than relying on a two card combo.
WURUWr Stoneblade
Modern
WRGNaya Zoo Company
My local shop metagame isn't good for main deck Keranos. I wish I could main deck him though. Keranos isn't ideal against, Boggles, Affinity, Scapeshift, Tron, Bloom, and Storm. He's alright against Tron and Bloom, but I'm never fist pumping when I cast him against them though. Lol
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Course it's 4 CMC, requires double red, sorcery? Mainly still course it's 4 CMC..
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
If they ever print an Extirpate that makes you draw a card on top of it, I'd gladly pay UB for it, maybe even 1UB, but as it is now it just needs to downright win the game to not be a wasted card slot
?
I've heard people criticise Sowing Salt for being too narrow, but I haven't heard anyone point out that it's CMC as an issue in modern.
First, we already play plenty of 4cmc spells. Second, it's not like Tron "combos" before turn 4 in the vast majority of games.
Also, can I point out that your main complaint against Sowing Salt is that it requires four lands in play, but you defend Extraction because it combines with Tectonic Edge to remove one of their Uzra lands from their deck?
No one is saying Surgical Extraction is a bad card. The effect is powerful. However, it's only really effective against certain types of decks. Mostly graveyard based combo decks.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)