A friend and I are playing the modern GP next week, and have settled on Grixis Shadow. We've worked on a sideboard plan today, which I thought I would share, in case anyone else who plays the deck could use it, or have some input.
Affinity
Out 4 Street Wraith, 2 Serum Visions
In 1 Fatal Push, 1 Terminate, 1 Ceremonious Rejection, 1 Anger of the Goods, 1 Kolaghan's Command, 1 Temur Battle Rage
Burn
Out 4 Street Wraith, 2 Thoughtseize
In 1 Fatal Push, 2 Collective Brutality, 2 Stubborn Denial, 1 Temur Battle Rage
Titanshift
Out 3 Fatal Push, 2 Kolaghan's Command
In 2 Stubborn Denial, 2 Surgical Extraction, 1 Temur Battle Rage
Dredge
Out 2 Kolaghan's Command, 3 Thoughtseize, 2 Inquisition of Kozilek
In 2 Surgical Extraction, 1 Nihil Spellbomb, 1 Anger of the Gods, 1 Temur Battle Rage, 2 Stubborn Denial
U/W Control
Out 4 Street Wraith, 2 Fatal Push, 1 Terminate
In 2 Stubborn Denial, 2 Liliana, the Last Hope, 1 Kolaghan's Command, 2 Collective Brutality
Storm
Out 2 Terminate, 2 Kolaghan's Command, 3 Serum Visions
In 2 Stubborn Denial, 2 Surgical Extraction 1 Temur Battle Rage, 1 Nihil Spellbomb, 1 Anger of the Gods
Shadow Jund
Out 4 Street Wraith, 2 Lightning Bolt, 2 Inquisition of Kozilek, 1 Thoughtseize
In 2 Stubborn Denial, 1 Fatal Push, 2 Surgical Extraction, 1 Nihil Spellbomb, 2 Liliana, the Last Hope, 1 Kolaghan's Command
Grixis Shadow
Out 4 Street Wraith, 1 Lightning Bolt
In 1 Terminate, 1 Nihil Spellbomb, 2 Liliana, the Last Hope, 1 Kolaghan's Command
BGx (Jund, Junk)
Out 4 Street Wraith, 2 Inquisition of Kozilek
In 1 Fatal Push, 1 Terminate, 2 Liliana, the Last Hope, 2 Stubbborn Denial, 1 Kolaghan's Command
Elves
Out 4 Street Wraith, 4 Thoughtseize, 2 Inquisition of Kozilek
In 1 Fatal Push, 1 Anger of the Gods, 2 Liliana, the Last Hope, 1 Temur Battle Rage, 2 Stubborn Denial, 1 Terminate, 2 Collective Brutality
Merfolk
Out 4 Street Wraith, 2 Thought Scour
In 1 Fatal Push, 1 Terminate, 1 Temur Battle Rage, 1 Kolaghan's Command, 2 Collected Brutality
Ad Nauseam
Out 3 Fatal Push, 1 Terminates, 2 Serum Visions, 1 Snapcaster Mage
In 2 Surgical Extraction, 2 Stubborn Denial, 2 Collective Brutality, 1 Temur Battle Rage
Gx Tron
Out 3 Fatal Push, 2 Lightning Bolt, 2 Inquisition of Kozilek
In 2 Stubborn Denial, 1 Ceremonious Rejection, 1 Temur Battle Rage, 1 Kolaghan's Command, 2 Surgical Extraction
Bant Eldrazi
Out 4 Street Wraith, 2 Thought Scour
In 1 Fatal Push, 1 Terminate, 1 Ceremonious Rejection, 1 Temur Battle Rage, 2 Stubborn Denial
Death and Eldrazi
Out 4 Street Wraith, 2 Gurmag Angler
In 1 Fatal Push, 1 Terminate, 2 Liliana, The Last Hope, 1 Anger of the Gods, 1 Kolaghan's Command
Eldrazi Tron
Out 4 Serum Visions, 2 Snapcaster Mage
In 1 Ceremonious Rejection, 1 Terminate, 1 Kolaghan's Command, 1 Temur Battle Rage, 2 Stubborn Denial
Counters Company
Out 4 Street Wraith, 2 Serum Visions, 2 Inqusition of Kozilek
In 1 Fatal Push, 1 Terminate, 2 Surgical Extraction, 1 Temur Battle Rage, 1 Anger of the Gods, 2 Stubborn Denial
Lantern
Out 2 Terminate, 3 Fatal Push, 2 Lightning Bolt, 1 Serum Visions
In 1 Ceremonious Rejection,1 Kolaghan's Command, 1 Temur Battle Rage, 2 Stubborn Denial, 2 Surgical Extraction, 1 Nihil Spellbomb
Living End
Out 3 Fatal Push, 2 Kolaghan's Command, 2 Serum Visions
In 2 Stubborn Denial, 2 Surgical Extraction, 1 Nihil Spellbomb, 2 Collective Brutality
Bogles
Out 2 Terminate, 3 Fatal Push, 3 Serum Visions
In 2 Stubborn Denial, Temur Battle Rage, 2 Surgical Extraction
I like your list, only thing I would change would be to add a second Rejection. The card has been so good for me, and it's live against 2 out of the top 3 decks right now.
As for your sideboard plan, I'm gonna agree with what everyone else here is saying. Street Wraith is a legitimate threat you can hard cast in grindy matchups. The only commonly played removal that kills him is Path and Terminate, and it's a win for you if they're using those cards on your Street Wraith and not your delve creatures. In the mirror, he's even unblockable.
In matchups where discard is bad, I always side out both IoK, and sometimes 1 Thoughtseize. We usually don't have enough cards to side in to replace all the discard, and Thoughtseize at least advances our life-loss game plan.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Hey guys I'm working on my deck for a modern tournament coming up in 2 weeks that I really want to do well in. I'll post my current deck, sideboard, cards I have and some decks I know will be there ahead of time. this is my first post so I hope I formatted it correctly.
decks I know for sure will be there
boggles (we had a guy come in and win an entire tournament with boggles so now at least 3 other players always bring boggles. why I have liliana of the veil in my side)
naya burn
naya zoo
colorless eldrazi
bant eldrazi
sun and moon
jund
abzan company
naihiri control
death's shadow jund
storm
at least 2 affinity
martyr proc
titan shift
any help or advice would be really appreciated.
also what is the opinion on shivan reef
Hmm, seems interesting with 1 Liliana, tLH without bolt in maindeck. I would try the list. Just feel that we are less and less bolt-snap-bolt, but more on push-snap-push. In sb, i would +1 Liliana coz she can win by herself if with a creature/denial protection. Probably +brutality coz of burn, affinity, storm is so popular in your meta. I would also replace kozilek return to anger for abzan company.
For shivan reef is bit bad card coz its damage is bit slow. In 1 turn it only deal 1 damage whereby fetch shock able to deal 3 and fast turn on death's shadow in the same turn.
Just started following this thread, so pardon my n00bishness for the following query:
Is Apostle's Blessing worthy to be in the 75? It protects and pumps...
Its good that we could take 2 damage to give protection to our creature. But if our life is too low (below 5 life) is quite risky. Stubborn denials and discard worked well here. Denial can hit other spell based combo and burn too.
Let me repeat this, for all of the guys getting ready for the GP's or for the SCG. Do not register with at least 1 or even better 2 Anger Of The Gods in your sideboard and without at least 2 lightning Bolt in the mainboard.
The flavour of the month is Abzan Company Counters. I am expecting HUGE numbers from the deck in the upcoming tours!
I'm beating it pretty handily with 0 Anger in the 75, and 0-1 bolt MD. Liliana, the Last Hope is the key card.
About ruling question: Does Liliana, tLH still can +1 given no creature in the board?
Yes. The +1 is up to one creature, so you can choose zero creatures if none are on board or only you have creatures on board.
Does it means that it gonna target one creature on board and has to be my creature if my opponent doesn't have a creature. And, if both of us doesn't have any creature, she still +1 loyal counters. Just that the activated ability go to stack and fizzled itself only.
Hey guys I'm working on my deck for a modern tournament coming up in 2 weeks that I really want to do well in. I'll post my current deck, sideboard, cards I have and some decks I know will be there ahead of time. this is my first post so I hope I formatted it correctly.
decks I know for sure will be there
boggles (we had a guy come in and win an entire tournament with boggles so now at least 3 other players always bring boggles. why I have liliana of the veil in my side)
naya burn
naya zoo
colorless eldrazi
bant eldrazi
sun and moon
jund
abzan company
naihiri control
death's shadow jund
storm
at least 2 affinity
martyr proc
titan shift
any help or advice would be really appreciated.
also what is the opinion on shivan reef
Hmm, seems interesting with 1 Liliana, tLH without bolt in maindeck. I would try the list. Just feel that we are less and less bolt-snap-bolt, but more on push-snap-push. In sb, i would +1 Liliana coz she can win by herself if with a creature/denial protection. Probably +brutality coz of burn, affinity, storm is so popular in your meta. I would also replace kozilek return to anger for abzan company.
For shivan reef is bit bad card coz its damage is bit slow. In 1 turn it only deal 1 damage whereby fetch shock able to deal 3 and fast turn on death's shadow in the same turn.
See I've been straying against lightning bolt because it hasn't been doing what I've wanted it to do. Like for the creatures it hits fatal push does it so much better or it doesn't hit wide enough like with lingering souls. The 3 Damage also hasn't been needed in the games I have played and the most use I got out of it was having it hit me to pump up death's shadow.
What is everyone's opinion on mass removal spells like damnation or languish?
About ruling question: Does Liliana, tLH still can +1 given no creature in the board?
Yes. The +1 is up to one creature, so you can choose zero creatures if none are on board or only you have creatures on board.
Does it means that it gonna target one creature on board and has to be my creature if my opponent doesn't have a creature. And, if both of us doesn't have any creature, she still +1 loyal counters. Just that the activated ability go to stack and fizzled itself only.
The card reads target "up to one creature". This means you can target zero creatures or one creature. If you target zero creatures then you are upticking just for the loyalty counter. There is no fizzling. You target zero creatures and zero creatures get -2/-1.
What are the thoughts on Slip Through Space or Distortion Strike instead of Temur Battle Rage? I just really don't like TBR. It's 2 mana and may or may not win on the spot. Slip draws a card and Strike gets cast twice for free. All the times I have lost with lethal on board and a bunch of chump blockers, double strike was irrelevant (or mostly).
What are the thoughts on Slip Through Space or Distortion Strike instead of Temur Battle Rage? I just really don't like TBR. It's 2 mana and may or may not win on the spot. Slip draws a card and Strike gets cast twice for free. All the times I have lost with lethal on board and a bunch of chump blockers, double strike was irrelevant (or mostly).
You shouldn't be getting chumped that hard when you're casting TBR. How are you casting TBR? If your TBR'd creature is getting chumped, then it sounds like you're casting it precombat main phase, which essentially begs for your opponent to throw their biggest defenders into your attacker. TBR sees the most value when you're attacking with multiple creatures and after your opponent has declared blockers. You want to cast it on the creature that has the least blockers on it, and you'll only want to use it if you absolutely know you have lethal on board. At best, you win the game a turn or two early thanks to smart combat tricks. At worst, you get chumped by a bunch of dudes, you wipe your opponent's board of blockers, and now you have the upper hand for the rest of the game. There are very few creatures in the current meta that can trade with a TBR'd Death's Shadow/Tasigur/Gurmag.
Slip Through Space and Distortion Strike may be a free hit, but that's all they are. Slip Through Space doesn't guarantee 8+ power in one combat. Distortion Strike gives your opponent a turn to deal with your board, and sometimes that's more than enough.
What are the thoughts on Slip Through Space or Distortion Strike instead of Temur Battle Rage? I just really don't like TBR. It's 2 mana and may or may not win on the spot. Slip draws a card and Strike gets cast twice for free. All the times I have lost with lethal on board and a bunch of chump blockers, double strike was irrelevant (or mostly).
Double strike is a huge reason why the card is worthwhile. Sometimes they're at 10 and you have a 5/5. Or they're at 16 and you have a 9/9. Slip Through Space and Distortion Strike both need another turn to win there. If TBR isn't cutting it, these cards won't either.
I already expressed my opinion on the side-in/out, so I won't repeat myself. Still, I noticed some huge mistakes:
...
Collective Brutality is, by far, the best card ever printed against CoCo/Chord strategies. Killing a dork (on the play) or a threat (on the draw) plus stripping a Company from their hand in a single turn is pretty much a key play against them. If you're running CB in your sideboard, you should just bring them in.
+1. Counters Company has a pile of CoCos and Chords, and post-board will probably have some paths and/or decays. Brutality is really good.
Kommand vs non-Chalice Tron is pretty much a bad card.
Hitting O-Stone is real. Sometimes it helps you grind through a Wurmcoil, or take out their GY hate (Relic, or sometimes Cage). Or just get back a threat + make them discard can be decent. It's not the best, but I like having access to it post-board.
Some other SB notes relevant to current discussions:
GR Valakut/Titanshift variants will often SB in Chalice vs us, so you better have access to K Command. You can shave on Snapcasters there so you don't have too many expensive cards.
SBing out Thoughtseize vs. Elves seems pretty bad to me. They have a few key cards that you can't let stick / resolve.
Cutting Serum Visions vs. Ad Naus seems pretty bad to me. You need to find interaction. I'd rather trim on K Command, which is useful but expensive and not great, and maybe another Snapcaster.
I think everyone is overvaluing Anger of the Gods. You don't need it to beat Counters Company. Your creatures are much bigger than theirs, and Snap + spot removal does a lot of the work. Liliana the Last Hope is the real breaker out of the SB, and Kozilek's Return is pretty good vs them too. Collective Brutality, like BloodyRabbit mentioned, and Stubborn Denial do a great job keeping CoCo + Chord from getting out of control, and Thoughtseize (and Mana Leak!) does the same while also keeping Eternal Witness and Finks from generating too much advantage. And even if they do get a +1 here or there, your threats are so big it doesn't matter much. Switch those Angers back to K Returns and you'll be fine in the matchup without sacrificing vs. Affinity.
If we are worried about threat density, what about splashing green for goyfs? I've previously thought about going sultai for goyfs and delirium but the BUG colors leaves us severely vulnerable to swarm, grindy matchups and artifact matchups. If we do take out the delirium aspect we can maybe make room for the goyfs and other catchall answers like decays, seals and pulses. Was inspired to make a list by Michael Major's article today.
Concern is that it doesn't have as many answers to creatures, especially non-pushable creatuers, but I think we'd like to keep the red to a minimum, but I don't think a second dismember can be supported realistically. Thoughts?
Concept is that I'd like to build a UBgr deck as opposed to a GBru deck. I really like what snapcaster and denial adds and we don't lose all of the consistency from the traverse engine with the additions of sv and scour which also furthers our gameplan.
I built the list I just posted and went 5-0 in the first league. small sample size obviously, but even by feel it felt a lot better in that I was more proactive because of the goyfs. Felt stylistically different in a good way. i don't know, with all the talk about people lamenting their threat density I think green is worth exploring even without the delirium engine. I'm going to jam a few more leagues and see how it feels
Hey all! I've been a follower of this thread from the start, but it's my first post here. Thank you for all the valuable help!
I'd just like to start a discussion on enchantment removal. Some are quite tough to play around (like a Leyline of Sanctity on T0), or Intangible Virtue which a local player has in their tokens deck.
Do we need enchantment removal? And what would our best options be?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BUR Grixis Death's Shadow RBW Mardu Pyromancer GBR Gx Tron
So your plan is just race or die. That's not a great plan, and the exact reason why I play an Echoing Truth in the sideboard. It deals with tokens, enchantments, hellbent LOTV upticks, planeswalkers and more.
Some spicy tech in one of yesterday's three Grixis Shadow 5-0 finishes - Kira out of the side. Thoughts?
Some of the ruling question, if my death's shadow has attached spirit link. My life is 2, so my death's shadow is 11/11. My opponent is at 15 life. I declare attack (without any blocker) and play temur battle rage. I remember that spirit link: Whenever enchanted creature deal damage,you gain that much of life. Do my shadow with double strike dealt 22 damage and kill opponent? Or first/double strike damage phase, shadow dealt 11 damage. Spirit Link goes to stack. Spirit Link resolves. Opponent gain life to 26 life. Followed by regular damage phase, opponent gain life again. It works first or another one?
It works as you described, in a way. You attack, first strike damage happens, they go to 4, then spirit link resolves and they go to 15. Then the double strike 2nd hit happens, you hit for 11, they go to 4, then they gain 11 life.
Also, what is with Ceremonious Rejection in the side? Also, say you have an opening hand of 2 street wraiths, do you instantly cycle them or wait? would you keep a hand with 4 SW, 1 DS, 2 fetches? Would you pop them off instantly or wait? I am trying to learn how to master this deck!
As for your sideboard plan, I'm gonna agree with what everyone else here is saying. Street Wraith is a legitimate threat you can hard cast in grindy matchups. The only commonly played removal that kills him is Path and Terminate, and it's a win for you if they're using those cards on your Street Wraith and not your delve creatures. In the mirror, he's even unblockable.
In matchups where discard is bad, I always side out both IoK, and sometimes 1 Thoughtseize. We usually don't have enough cards to side in to replace all the discard, and Thoughtseize at least advances our life-loss game plan.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Hmm, seems interesting with 1 Liliana, tLH without bolt in maindeck. I would try the list. Just feel that we are less and less bolt-snap-bolt, but more on push-snap-push. In sb, i would +1 Liliana coz she can win by herself if with a creature/denial protection. Probably +brutality coz of burn, affinity, storm is so popular in your meta. I would also replace kozilek return to anger for abzan company.
For shivan reef is bit bad card coz its damage is bit slow. In 1 turn it only deal 1 damage whereby fetch shock able to deal 3 and fast turn on death's shadow in the same turn.
Its good that we could take 2 damage to give protection to our creature. But if our life is too low (below 5 life) is quite risky. Stubborn denials and discard worked well here. Denial can hit other spell based combo and burn too.
Yes. The +1 is up to one creature, so you can choose zero creatures if none are on board or only you have creatures on board.
I'm beating it pretty handily with 0 Anger in the 75, and 0-1 bolt MD. Liliana, the Last Hope is the key card.
Does it means that it gonna target one creature on board and has to be my creature if my opponent doesn't have a creature. And, if both of us doesn't have any creature, she still +1 loyal counters. Just that the activated ability go to stack and fizzled itself only.
See I've been straying against lightning bolt because it hasn't been doing what I've wanted it to do. Like for the creatures it hits fatal push does it so much better or it doesn't hit wide enough like with lingering souls. The 3 Damage also hasn't been needed in the games I have played and the most use I got out of it was having it hit me to pump up death's shadow.
What is everyone's opinion on mass removal spells like damnation or languish?
The card reads target "up to one creature". This means you can target zero creatures or one creature. If you target zero creatures then you are upticking just for the loyalty counter. There is no fizzling. You target zero creatures and zero creatures get -2/-1.
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
2 Blood Crypt
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Gurmag Angler
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
4 Thought Scour
3 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
1 Lightning Bolt
3 Stubborn Denial
4 Thoughtseize
3 Mana Leak
1 Stubborn Denial
2 Terminate
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Collective Brutality
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Kozilek's Return
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Temur Battle Rage
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Slip Through Space and Distortion Strike may be a free hit, but that's all they are. Slip Through Space doesn't guarantee 8+ power in one combat. Distortion Strike gives your opponent a turn to deal with your board, and sometimes that's more than enough.
WBR Mardu Pyromancer RBW
WB Eldrazi & Taxes BW
WUBRAd Nauseam RBUW
WU in the streets, BR in the sheets
Double strike is a huge reason why the card is worthwhile. Sometimes they're at 10 and you have a 5/5. Or they're at 16 and you have a 9/9. Slip Through Space and Distortion Strike both need another turn to win there. If TBR isn't cutting it, these cards won't either.
+1. Counters Company has a pile of CoCos and Chords, and post-board will probably have some paths and/or decays. Brutality is really good.
Hitting O-Stone is real. Sometimes it helps you grind through a Wurmcoil, or take out their GY hate (Relic, or sometimes Cage). Or just get back a threat + make them discard can be decent. It's not the best, but I like having access to it post-board.
Some other SB notes relevant to current discussions:
GR Valakut/Titanshift variants will often SB in Chalice vs us, so you better have access to K Command. You can shave on Snapcasters there so you don't have too many expensive cards.
SBing out Thoughtseize vs. Elves seems pretty bad to me. They have a few key cards that you can't let stick / resolve.
Cutting Serum Visions vs. Ad Naus seems pretty bad to me. You need to find interaction. I'd rather trim on K Command, which is useful but expensive and not great, and maybe another Snapcaster.
I think everyone is overvaluing Anger of the Gods. You don't need it to beat Counters Company. Your creatures are much bigger than theirs, and Snap + spot removal does a lot of the work. Liliana the Last Hope is the real breaker out of the SB, and Kozilek's Return is pretty good vs them too. Collective Brutality, like BloodyRabbit mentioned, and Stubborn Denial do a great job keeping CoCo + Chord from getting out of control, and Thoughtseize (and Mana Leak!) does the same while also keeping Eternal Witness and Finks from generating too much advantage. And even if they do get a +1 here or there, your threats are so big it doesn't matter much. Switch those Angers back to K Returns and you'll be fine in the matchup without sacrificing vs. Affinity.
Concern is that it doesn't have as many answers to creatures, especially non-pushable creatuers, but I think we'd like to keep the red to a minimum, but I don't think a second dismember can be supported realistically. Thoughts?
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
2 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
Sorceries (10)
4 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Death's Shadow
4 Street Wraith
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmagoyf
Instants (13)
4 Fatal Push
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Thought Scour
1 Dismember
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Temur Battle Rage
2 Stubborn Denial
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Collective Brutality
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Kozilek's Return
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Concept is that I'd like to build a UBgr deck as opposed to a GBru deck. I really like what snapcaster and denial adds and we don't lose all of the consistency from the traverse engine with the additions of sv and scour which also furthers our gameplan.
I built the list I just posted and went 5-0 in the first league. small sample size obviously, but even by feel it felt a lot better in that I was more proactive because of the goyfs. Felt stylistically different in a good way. i don't know, with all the talk about people lamenting their threat density I think green is worth exploring even without the delirium engine. I'm going to jam a few more leagues and see how it feels
I'd just like to start a discussion on enchantment removal. Some are quite tough to play around (like a Leyline of Sanctity on T0), or Intangible Virtue which a local player has in their tokens deck.
Do we need enchantment removal? And what would our best options be?
Grixis Death's Shadow
RBW
Mardu Pyromancer
GBR
Gx Tron
Some spicy tech in one of yesterday's three Grixis Shadow 5-0 finishes - Kira out of the side. Thoughts?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Also, what is with Ceremonious Rejection in the side? Also, say you have an opening hand of 2 street wraiths, do you instantly cycle them or wait? would you keep a hand with 4 SW, 1 DS, 2 fetches? Would you pop them off instantly or wait? I am trying to learn how to master this deck!