The other win cons are Gurmag and Tasigur right? Besides Death's Shadow? I'm trying to learn this deck but it's been really tough winning matches. Is it better to not ping my life total down faster? I realize i'm not a good pilot for the deck but I'm trying to get better. It seems the Jund version is better having tarmogoyfs and mishra's bauble, however this rendition is much more affordable. Any tips on playing/piloting this deck better? Thanks
Imp's Mischief only works on spells with a single target. Cool, you redirected a Bolt for 2 mana and prevented 2 damage. If that's your best case scenario, my 'Burn doesn't give a *****' argument still applies as far as I'm concerned.
You can also redirect a bolt to one of their creatures if they have one out. Obviously that's the highest power you can get, but that's pretty strong.
Of course I'd rather draw 3 than just counter an AV, but I already have a maindeck answer to AV that costs 1 mana less and has so many more applications. I'm not going to dedicate precious sideboard space to a fringe scenario where I have to have a specific card in hand and 2 mana up as my opponent resolves an AV without a counterspell to protect it.
In your exact same scenario, someone could have a counterspell for the Stubborn denial. Don't see the big deal here. Also, this is a card that'd be used in tandem with SD in the matchup.
Again, none of our bad matchups care about Imp's Mischief and neither should you. It's a cool card and I'd definitely run it if it had its merits in our deck but hey, let's not go down that road because I have an Ashiok waiting in line here.
Right, because Ashiok is sooooo good against Eldrazitron and U/W control? The card is only truly bad vs Tron, but then so are a lot of things so I wouldn't sweat it.
Also, gkourou, I'm really liking the U/B decks so far. Not exactly Grixis but it's pretty cool to see. Not sure about the deal with the Vampiric Links in the sideboard, though.
Also, gkourou, I'm really liking the U/B decks so far. Not exactly Grixis but it's pretty cool to see. Not sure about the deal with the Vampiric Links in the sideboard, though.
Yeah, I have to try them out as well. A big problem is the lack of an unconditional sweeper for big dudes(Terminate) and the lack of permanent removals(Kolaghan's Command). This is why they run 8 disruption spells and the full playset of Stubborn Denial plus Dispel though.
Well, the thing is that the deck already has its own huge creatures. I'd like to see some number of Murderous Cut or Big Game Hunter in the 75 to kill off opposing larger creatures, since we tend to outsize just about everything else.
The deck just seems like it can't let anything resolve at all versus certain decks. 5-0s still have enough variance that you can dodge bad matchups. Let us know how testing goes.
Cfusionpm - Yeah losing Gitaxian Probe was pretty lame but I think the format is probably better off for it, even if Delver is worse
Imp's Mischief only works on spells with a single target. Cool, you redirected a Bolt for 2 mana and prevented 2 damage. If that's your best case scenario, my 'Burn doesn't give a *****' argument still applies as far as I'm concerned.
You can also redirect a bolt to one of their creatures if they have one out. Obviously that's the highest power you can get, but that's pretty strong.
Of course I'd rather draw 3 than just counter an AV, but I already have a maindeck answer to AV that costs 1 mana less and has so many more applications. I'm not going to dedicate precious sideboard space to a fringe scenario where I have to have a specific card in hand and 2 mana up as my opponent resolves an AV without a counterspell to protect it.
In your exact same scenario, someone could have a counterspell for the Stubborn denial. Don't see the big deal here. Also, this is a card that'd be used in tandem with SD in the matchup.
Again, none of our bad matchups care about Imp's Mischief and neither should you. It's a cool card and I'd definitely run it if it had its merits in our deck but hey, let's not go down that road because I have an Ashiok waiting in line here.
Right, because Ashiok is sooooo good against Eldrazitron and U/W control? The card is only truly bad vs Tron, but then so are a lot of things so I wouldn't sweat it.
Also, gkourou, I'm really liking the U/B decks so far. Not exactly Grixis but it's pretty cool to see. Not sure about the deal with the Vampiric Links in the sideboard, though.
Ashiok is in line for when he becomes useful one day, you misunderstood me.
The point isn't that Mischief is never ever gonna do anything, the point is I'm not gonna dedicate precious slots to a card like that when I already have Denial, which is cheaper and useful in more scenarios.
Mischief does not shore up our bad matchups. Broken record here.
Mischief does not shore up our bad matchups. Broken record here.
Again, I think it will be quite strong vs U/W control rather than just playing Countersquall. Hopefully, my FNM will fire and I can report back with some games.
Hello, I'm currently buying into Grixis Shadow from scratch. I noticed in the latest 5-0 league with Grixis Shadow, they have 3 Spreading Seas in the sideboard. I'm wondering if this is better than Fulminator Mage since it replaces itself while disrupting the opponent's mana (and comes down a turn sooner) or its a budget issue?
I must be doing something horribly wrong (wouldn't doubt it.. I'm bad at this control/midrange thing) because I'm at like 52% win rate on MTGO and the general opposition has been good and the meta hostile
Hello, I'm currently buying into Grixis Shadow from scratch. I noticed in the latest 5-0 league with Grixis Shadow, they have 3 Spreading Seas in the sideboard. I'm wondering if this is better than Fulminator Mage since it replaces itself while disrupting the opponent's mana (and comes down a turn sooner) or its a budget issue?
I guess it's just a budget option.
1) You can't return it back to your hand with Kolaghan's Command like you could do with Fulminators
2) You can't cast it again like Molten Rain/Crumble to Dust with Snapcaster
3) You don't put nothing in the for your surgical extractions/Delve fatties.
@gkourou I'm interested in you U/B list, since I already have most of the cards to switch out and it seems more focused. It was mentioned that Street Wrath isn't good with Delver since it doesn't aid the flipping. I was wondering if you thought that Street Wrath could be switched to Night's Whisper. It cost more for the cast, but it card advantage and aids Delver.
With my limited experience of around30 matches, I don´t think it is a budget option. Spreading Seas is primarily there for Tron. Fulminator doesn´t do anything to prevent t3 tron on the draw, and the deck is not designed to draw out the game until you have 5 lands in play to re-buy molten rain or until we have the 6 mana to spare to cast fulminator mage again.
Spreading seas prevents t3 tron and protects against karn/wurmcoil long enough to win before they are resolved.
Also we have only 19 lands and even getting to 3 lands is sometimes a challenge (and we operate on 2 lands just fine for the most part of the game).
Talking about getting to 6 lands to re-buy fulminator seems just unrealistic to me in most games where you face tron. That´s a viable option for a corey burkhart style control deck, but not for us. We also run less kolaghans command than the traditional grixis ctrl list.
Since we are all about efficiency and quick wins, I don´t think fulminator mage is the way to go, with spreading seas having a couple other applications besides tron and replacing itself and costing less mana. In the turns where it matters mostly for our deck, it accomplishes the same thing, just a turn faster and replacing itself.
Forgive my rant, I´m quite drunk.
Your argument is exactly why I think most of us have completely moved away from LD. You can't spend entire turns casting a Fulminator Mage or Stone Rain, and then two more turns Kommanding it back, or 5 mana to Snap back a Stone Rain. You need to deploy your threats and kill them asap, and the best way I've found to do that is to strip their payoffs with your discard, and play Ceremonious Rejections to protect yourself from their top decks while you attack them. Even if you manage to Surgical them off of Tron, they're going to get to 5, 6, 7 mana naturally pretty easily. You need to just get them dead, don't be trying to grind with them.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Seeing as how much of the deck operates at sorcery speed, I'm tempted to move my sb Dreadbore into main and perhaps going away from Bolts and adding 1-2 Rise//Fall in their place. Thoughts?
Yeah, I think I'm going to pick up a couple of Rise // Fall and test with them. There are some cases where I can see them be less than stellar (against Dredge the card is pretty much 100% dead) but Bolt just feels so underwhelming right now that I'm eager to try replacements for it.
Yeah, I don't think Eldrazi Tron is that bad of a matchup. I think we're not favored in game 1, but are favored after sideboard. The games I lose against them are usually when they sneak through a chalice on 1. Looking at my statistics, it's a pretty small sample size, but i'm 7-5 in games against them over the last week, and 6-2 in post-board games. I think our plan against them works pretty well.
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Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Thanks for that list DaveJacinto, and I agree, I also expect Bolt vs Rise // Fall to be a meta call. Looking forward to trying it out as I'm currently in a meta with mostly midrange and control (and 1-2 DSJ players).
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You can also redirect a bolt to one of their creatures if they have one out. Obviously that's the highest power you can get, but that's pretty strong.
In your exact same scenario, someone could have a counterspell for the Stubborn denial. Don't see the big deal here. Also, this is a card that'd be used in tandem with SD in the matchup.
Right, because Ashiok is sooooo good against Eldrazitron and U/W control? The card is only truly bad vs Tron, but then so are a lot of things so I wouldn't sweat it.
Also, gkourou, I'm really liking the U/B decks so far. Not exactly Grixis but it's pretty cool to see. Not sure about the deal with the Vampiric Links in the sideboard, though.
If Street Wraith were a spell instead of a creature, I would be ALL OVER playing Delver. But it's not, and an unflipped Delver is unbelievably bad.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Well, the thing is that the deck already has its own huge creatures. I'd like to see some number of Murderous Cut or Big Game Hunter in the 75 to kill off opposing larger creatures, since we tend to outsize just about everything else.
The deck just seems like it can't let anything resolve at all versus certain decks. 5-0s still have enough variance that you can dodge bad matchups. Let us know how testing goes.
Cfusionpm - Yeah losing Gitaxian Probe was pretty lame but I think the format is probably better off for it, even if Delver is worse
Ashiok is in line for when he becomes useful one day, you misunderstood me.
The point isn't that Mischief is never ever gonna do anything, the point is I'm not gonna dedicate precious slots to a card like that when I already have Denial, which is cheaper and useful in more scenarios.
Mischief does not shore up our bad matchups. Broken record here.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Again, I think it will be quite strong vs U/W control rather than just playing Countersquall. Hopefully, my FNM will fire and I can report back with some games.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I guess it's just a budget option.
1) You can't return it back to your hand with Kolaghan's Command like you could do with Fulminators
2) You can't cast it again like Molten Rain/Crumble to Dust with Snapcaster
3) You don't put nothing in the for your surgical extractions/Delve fatties.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW