There is no need to reinvent the wheel. The deck plays delve threat and Snapcaster mage, it follows that Thought Scour is an essential part of the strategy. If you remove them you have to remove Tasigur and Angler and now it's not the same deck. Spare yourself the trouble.
Actually, You're trading in a little raw speed (Like a T2 Angler) and delve selection for stronger card selection. It's worth giving a try to see how much it affects the whole delve concept. You DON'T need to cut the Delve Threats at all.
@AcademyRuins - The problem with YP Is that it doesn't trigger Ferocious, of which is a key to protect our threats.
The ideal additional threat would need to be a somewhat huge creature with a low CMC (Frost Walker is something close to it but too fragile.) Tarmogoyf is an option, yes, but I think You're better of playing 5C Shadow if you want to play it.
Alyius, I don't think testing out the 1x temur in place of the opt is unreasonable. There is a 5-0 MTGO list who did just that when I was researching how to tweak the deck.
I was cutting the 4th copy of Wraith for a while and I now think that's 100% incorrect, even if I'm not afraid to cut 1x or 2x a lot after game 1.
I...have been incredibly underwhelmed with Pyro in my sideboard but I don't think I've tested enough. I tried putting in pyro in some games were it wasn't just a grindy, slow game. Donegan suggested it to be sideboarded in a lot---and I've been massively underwhelmed by it.
Korie McDuffie seems to have a good formula for the Grixis lists
I have been on radiant flames, cards pretty good, I have to say.
I'm not too high on going below 3x stubs in grixis
the 1x Dismember in 5C and Grixis has been working nicely so far.
do we really want to be putting our delve threats out quick?
Yes. Yes, we do.
The fact that you can play Tasigur and Gurmag Angler on turn two is one of the big reasons Grixis Shadow is a Tier 1 deck.
Our only counterspell is dependent on playing an early creature, and our best game plan against basically everyone is quick, large threat plus disruption.
Against something like Affinity, we can sit back and be a Fatal Push deck. Against Burn, Scapeshift, Storm, and many others you REALLY want to be a turn 2 Tasigur deck.
5c versions of a deck like this will always have their advantages and disadvantages. We've seen 5c goodstuff decks before, and while at some points they're very good, they're not always reliable or good long-term. I don't particularly see enough reason to want a 5c version of GDS, but I could absolutely accept that red isn't the best third colour. I've always wondered if we should be playing red because a lot of the cards are replaceable. In red specifically, you get:
Bolt/Terminate/Dreadbore, which can be subbed with other cheap removal like Fatal Push (if playing less than 4), Dismember, Path
Pyroclasm / Anger of the Gods / Kozilek's Return, which can be subbed out with Flaying Tendrils as some lists already do
Temur Battle Rage, which honestly isn't the most important card, and isn't always played
Young Pyromancer, which is just an additional threat that could be Lingering Souls in white, Tarmogoyf in green
Kolaghan's Command, which is really the one flexible card you can't sub out, but you can find ways to deal with losing this
I've thought about 4c Grixis splashing white for a sideboard card or two, Path, and Lingering Souls. The biggest problem I see is that LD is a thing, and we don't want to play enough lands to mitigate that. 18 is the correct number, in my opinion, and you can probably get away with at most 11 fetches and 7 other lands. Combined with cards like Thought Scour, you run into awkward situations where you won't have the right lands to grab.
As for some cards people have been talking about:
Young Pyromancer - Seems good to bump up the threat count. I think it's better in the mirror than my experiences have suggested, because I've won more games my opponents have boarded them in. I think there are possibly better cards than this though. I've been fond of Liliana in the mirror as a counter threat.
Temur Battle Rage - Seems really bad to me. It can sometimes steal games but I think our deck has a lot of power and isn't quite looking to spend cards to try to be "win more" as it goes.
Anger of the Gods - Has been significantly better for me than other AOE removal. The fact that it permanently answers cards from Dredge and Company decks has actually been a significant deal. It's harder to cast for sure, but in the decks it hoses, you're typically not getting LD'd.
Opt - I've been enjoying this card. I think scrying first is a very relevant factor in a deck that wants to draw lands on a particular schedule. A lot of the time, you don't draw enough lands and need more, or you're flooding and need less.
Search for Azcanta - Seems quite bad to me. Not the kind of thing our deck needs to be doing. The flip effect is super expensive and I don't think slowly gaining an advantage is powerful enough.
Chart a Course - Seems like it's worse than 1-mana cantrips to me, but I haven't tested and could be wrong. It feels like you're paying one mana extra to cast Sleight of Hand and discard instead of bottom the card you don't want. Sure, if you attack it's good, but you won't attack enough of the time for it to be consistent.
Got paired with unexpected decks last sunday. I was raped by 3 dryad militants and 1 grounbreaker (lost in 3 games) Got ramped by elves with me having 2 death shadows 5/5 and 2 Gurmag Anglers in play, i just needed to topdeck a removal for his lone blocker for my turn (lost in 2 games) Just won against Tron (this the only matchup i always win even with CoTV 1 in play). How long can GDS hold on to its Tier1 spot?
Classic Tron is not what I consider a rough matchup. It's slightly unfavorable in game 1 and slightly favorable in games 2 and 3. So I'd say it's about even.
Yeah, there was a lot of Jeskai, which could explain things, the draw go and UW Control are nightmare matches for Shadow decks in all forms.
Why isn't K-Command the powerhouse it once was? Affinity it still a top deck, and now Tron coming up like this, the 2nd K-Command seems powerful enough.
I believe that having two K-Commands main is still decent depending on meta. Also I think it's time to shift to a more aggressive role in the current meta that appeared.
I agree, being aggressive G1 seems like the best plan, and then G2 if needed we board into a specific control suite depending on the matchup. GDS can be a pretty fast deck, and the core is powerful enough that I don't think we want to dilute it too much with situational cards in a meta as open as the current.
I'm testing 1 Tombstalker for 1 Angler and 1 Forked Bolt currently in a list with 4 Opt / 2 Serum. Won't know how good it goes until I actually play it. I want stalker for flying and forked bolt as a possible 2 for 1. Also, anyone consider Distortion Strike?
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I think TBR is still the better card for the purpose of pushing damage through. I'd probably also rather look towards Slip Through Space before Distortion Strike due the cantrip ability.
I'm not an experienced player but I can tell you Kolaghan's Command and Anger/Pyroclasm will stuff Affinity. Can't you keep a couple "extra" "extra" in the sideboard. The cards are dope against go-wide strategies which is what Shadow can struggle against. Sideboard for the 40/60 matchups right? And go hard on it.
I haven't lost to affinity for a very long time but I play a kitchen table GB Elves deck. And green has such wonderful tools to beat creature-based artifact aggro decks. God forbid I didn't already mainboard 4 Essence Warden and 1 Nullmage Shepherd.
You Shadow players on the other hand, I'm on the wrong end of that 60/40 spread. 8 of my sideboard is dedicated to you. Though its probably closer to 45/55
I am just finally getting around to playing GDS (I know I picked a terrible time to pick it up) and I was wondering why Lightning Bolt in the main is no longer a thing. The top player at my LGS is on Jeskai Queller and I would think bolt would be good in that MU to kill Queller.
I am just finally getting around to playing GDS (I know I picked a terrible time to pick it up) and I was wondering why Lightning Bolt in the main is no longer a thing. The top player at my LGS is on Jeskai Queller and I would think bolt would be good in that MU to kill Queller.
in honesty it's time to change the staple of four push main, a split would be good or a 3 push and 3 bolt would be fine
Bolt is a dead card more often that not. The meta change does not warrant including 3. Push is the more efficient creature removal in the format that's why it's a 4of, simple.
I do run a 3/1 push/bolt split though since I'm on the 2 Temur battle rage plan MD.
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Actually, You're trading in a little raw speed (Like a T2 Angler) and delve selection for stronger card selection. It's worth giving a try to see how much it affects the whole delve concept. You DON'T need to cut the Delve Threats at all.
@AcademyRuins - The problem with YP Is that it doesn't trigger Ferocious, of which is a key to protect our threats.
The ideal additional threat would need to be a somewhat huge creature with a low CMC (Frost Walker is something close to it but too fragile.) Tarmogoyf is an option, yes, but I think You're better of playing 5C Shadow if you want to play it.
I was cutting the 4th copy of Wraith for a while and I now think that's 100% incorrect, even if I'm not afraid to cut 1x or 2x a lot after game 1.
I...have been incredibly underwhelmed with Pyro in my sideboard but I don't think I've tested enough. I tried putting in pyro in some games were it wasn't just a grindy, slow game. Donegan suggested it to be sideboarded in a lot---and I've been massively underwhelmed by it.
Korie McDuffie seems to have a good formula for the Grixis lists
I have been on radiant flames, cards pretty good, I have to say.
I'm not too high on going below 3x stubs in grixis
the 1x Dismember in 5C and Grixis has been working nicely so far.
Yes. Yes, we do.
The fact that you can play Tasigur and Gurmag Angler on turn two is one of the big reasons Grixis Shadow is a Tier 1 deck.
Our only counterspell is dependent on playing an early creature, and our best game plan against basically everyone is quick, large threat plus disruption.
Against something like Affinity, we can sit back and be a Fatal Push deck. Against Burn, Scapeshift, Storm, and many others you REALLY want to be a turn 2 Tasigur deck.
I mean, the card even furthers the plan of filling up the GY. This card is a nightmare in slower matchups
I've thought about 4c Grixis splashing white for a sideboard card or two, Path, and Lingering Souls. The biggest problem I see is that LD is a thing, and we don't want to play enough lands to mitigate that. 18 is the correct number, in my opinion, and you can probably get away with at most 11 fetches and 7 other lands. Combined with cards like Thought Scour, you run into awkward situations where you won't have the right lands to grab.
As for some cards people have been talking about:
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Does this mean perhaps the lists messing around with opts and cutting the K-Command is a mistake and messing with a winning formula?
This deck is far too efficient to fall below tier 1 without serious, constant hate.
Why isn't K-Command the powerhouse it once was? Affinity it still a top deck, and now Tron coming up like this, the 2nd K-Command seems powerful enough.
Decklist
Edit to include metagame #:
Abzan 2
Ad Nauseum 1
Affinity 4
Bant Knightfall 1
BR Hollow One 1
Burn 3
Bushwhacker Zoo 1
Vizier Company 2
Death & Taxes 2
Eldrazi Tron 1
Elves 1
Gifts Storm 1
Grixis Control 1
Grixis Shadow 2
Gx Tron 3
Humans 1
Jeskai Ascendency 1
Jeskai Control 1
Jund 2
Jund Shadow 1
KCI Combo 1
Lantern Control 1
Living End 1
Merfolk 2
Titan Shift 1
U Tron 2
UR Kiki Exarch 1
UW Control 1
WB Processors 1
Usual turnout is between 8 to 20 people and some people have multiple decks. Notice Affinity being the most popular next to Gx Tron variants.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I haven't lost to affinity for a very long time but I play a kitchen table GB Elves deck. And green has such wonderful tools to beat creature-based artifact aggro decks. God forbid I didn't already mainboard 4 Essence Warden and 1 Nullmage Shepherd.
Sideboard
3 Reclamation Sage
You Shadow players on the other hand, I'm on the wrong end of that 60/40 spread. 8 of my sideboard is dedicated to you. Though its probably closer to 45/55
I do run a 3/1 push/bolt split though since I'm on the 2 Temur battle rage plan MD.