Just got back from Regionals, took CoCo Humans to a Top 32 finish at 6-2-1. Will post list and summaries and notes later when I'm not 100% brain dead.
A Vial list Top 8'd the same event, for what it's worth. Looked similar to the one that won the Classic last weekend.
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EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
Collins Mullins took down my local regionals. I pilotted the same list to a 5-3:( for 67th. Drew horribly and bad match ups all day. A lot of abzan affinity mill jank.
The one problem I see for this deck is for when people start sb against it and start using torpor orb and card like it such as Hushwing gryff and tocatli honor guard. Most of our cards rely upon ETBs, including a lot of our answer cards.
Been absolutely loving the deck so far, I feel like there’s a fighting chance with every matchup, whether it be from game 1 or post-sideboard. I play in a Jeskai Queller and Eldrazi & Taxes heavy meta though, and I was wondering what everyone else’s experience and advice is for dealing with it. One tech I’ve been playing is 2 [Grand Abolisher], and its strangely been very disruptive. I feel like the psychological effect of restricting instants is more powerful against the opponent than the actual effect!
Over the course of the day I beat GB Tron, Burn, Rakdos Reanimator, Infect, Hollow One.dec, and The Rack. I only lost to Knightfall and Grixis Shadow. I unintentionally drew with Jeskai Flash/Geist/Queller/whatever you want to call it, after Game 2 took up most of the round because my opponent went on the luckiest streak of top decks I've ever seen.
Some quick notes and impressions:
--I need to move away from the Reflecting Pool mana base. In my last two rounds I constantly got stuck with the shockland-Pools opener, which forced mulligans. Going forward I'm going to go towards Ancient Ziggurats, probably a 2-1 split to start with.
--The Razorverge Thicket is going to become a second Horizon Canopy once I get my hands on one.
--I only cast Collected Company 3 or 4 times total the entire tournament. It's entirely possible that the card is just not needed, and the early velocity of Aether Vial is strictly better. Company did shine versus Jeskai and Shadow, however, so it's not as if it's a bad card, but being able to put our disruptive creatures into play at instant speed earlier than Turn 3-4 is something to be looked at. Switching to Vials also makes running Ziggurats less painful.
--Kitesail Freebooter is the real deal. It is absolutely gross when you can go T2 Freebooter into T3 double Freebooter to completely strip someone's hand away.
--The Big Game Hunter in my board was a flex slot that I had no idea how to fill. Hilariously, I got to cast it for the Madness cost when the Hollow One player Burning Inquiry'd it from my hand to kill his namesake card.
--I did miss Path to Exile in the 75. The deck struggles with heavy creature decks. But if your opponent wants to play boring non-interactive Magic, oh boy, do you love the matchup.
Going forward, I'm going to keep the Company shell intact, until I can collect the 4 Vials I need. Probably going to re-design my sideboard, beginning with 3-4 Paths so I can just do an easy swap between them and my Thalia-Medding Mage package when it comes to the creature matchups. Eternal Witness will probably get the axe for the fourth Reflector Mage. I may look into something like Fiendslayer Paladin or Mirran Crusader for the board too, I'm getting a little tired of my stuff getting Fatal Pushed and Lightning Bolted
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EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
Played at regionals, and I am certainly not experienced enough with the deck, but in my opinion, the sideboard needs work. The current build is VERY matchup dependent, which means sideboarding and Mulliganing in certain matchups is VERY important. I beat 8 rack, then ran into a fringe Allies deck, which the first game used protection to swing unopposed, and then in the second game he used ondu cleric and copies of it with coco to gain 60 LIFE. Second match was company counters, which he first game won turn three, second game just out swung me with huge knights. Next loss was infect, which blighted agent won him both games, because I didn't get meddling mage.
Deck seems pretty explosive, and can run over anything, but in certain instances, you need answers, and that means either mulliganing until you find that particular human, or using collected company. I don't think its advisable to run both cocos and aether vial, so I'm stuck. A work around is duskwatch recruiter, in place of mayor of avabruck, I think.
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"I hope to have such a death—lying in triumph upon the broken bodies of those who slew me."
—Radha, Keldon warlord
Going forward I'm going to go towards Ancient Ziggurats, probably a 2-1 split to start with.
You can't do that in a Coco build.
I play in a Jeskai Queller and Eldrazi & Taxes heavy meta though, and I was wondering what everyone else’s experience and advice is for dealing with it
What does your list look like ? I'm having a blast with Hostage Taker, it works fine vs those decks.
On the games themselves, I like to name Thought-Knot Seer / Geist of Saint Traft in the dark with Med Mage. I play early Lieutenants in priority to grow them big. Unless I have a Mantis that I want bigger than Flickerwisp / Spell Queller.
Ref Mage is MVP VS Smasher (no need to discard), which may me want to slow roll a Med Mage on purpose (unless they have a Vial on 5).
The one problem I see for this deck is for when people start sb against it and start using torpor orb and card like it such as Hushwing gryff and tocatli honor guard. Most of our cards rely upon ETBs, including a lot of our answer cards.
Indeed the Vial version is powerless here. Coco can play Path and Qasali / Disenchant effects that don't rely on etb creatures. Pray for a Pernicious Deed on human legs. ^^
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
My list is pretty stock, but I’ve subbed out 2 Mayors for Grand Abolishers in the presence of so much instant speed interaction. Hostage Taker sounds interesting, what would you recommend I take out of the MB for it?
My list is pretty stock, but I’ve subbed out 2 Mayors for Grand Abolishers in the presence of so much instant speed interaction. Hostage Taker sounds interesting, what would you recommend I take out of the MB for it?
Other more experienced players will have a more thorough interpretation of this, but hostage taker seems perhaps a little better in the vial build than the coco one? Maybe. I guess it depends on the number of mana dorks and whether or not you'd ever even consider ticking a vial up to four (seems sketchy but with a certain winning boardstate a feasible line sometimes)
Like the look of the card though. Perhaps sideboard material for grindy matchups though, rather than maindeck material.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I've been playing Collins Mullen's version for about 15 matches, and what I've found is that I need some card draw, and that I flood a lot with 20 lands. I obviously need more reps but wondered if any of you have had the same experience.
I'm thinking I'll main 2x Dark Confidants, taking out one land and moving one Meddling Mage to the board. Another option is Duskwatch Recruiter, this might be better because it only draws creatures, not late-game Vials or lands. His flip-side is beefier and has synergy with Mayor of Avabruck.
Now I've borrowed two Canopies and I want to go down to 19 lands, and I'm having a hard time deciding what to cut. I almost think it should be the basic Plains. There's downsides there too. What do you think?
Alright - last topic for conversation: 3 Aether Vials!?! I have already done the math, with 4 in the deck the odds of drawing one in your starting 7 cards is 39.95%. With 3 in the deck the odds are 31.54%. I know that Vial is best on turn one. Is this just pure insanity, or worth a discussion?
I've been playing Collins Mullen's version for about 15 matches, and what I've found is that I need some card draw, and that I flood a lot with 20 lands. I obviously need more reps but wondered if any of you have had the same experience.
I'm thinking I'll main 2x Dark Confidants, taking out one land and moving one Meddling Mage to the board. Another option is Duskwatch Recruiter, this might be better because it only draws creatures, not late-game Vials or lands. His flip-side is beefier and has synergy with Mayor of Avabruck.
What do you guys think?
I've played about 20 leagues now with Collin's version. How many Horizon Canopys are you playing (you need 2-3)? How aggressive are you mulliganing? This deck mulligans very aggressively. I tried 2x Bob in the main for awhile but I don't think that's where we want to be right now. He's not aggressive enough in matchups you need a clock and doesn't present immediate value or disruption. I've been running 1x Tireless Tracker in the main as the body isn't bad when you need him to attack and you can get immediate value off him if you have a land to play after casting him.
Duskwatch recruiter seems worthy of a test but at first thought I'd rather have Tireless Tracker or Bob since this deck rarely has 3 mana sitting around.
I have some good results with Vial Humans and 3 main Merieke ri berek instead of 2 little Thalia and an anafenza
Merieke in combination with vial sounds interesting, first time I see the card mentioned in this thread. Vialling in Merieke at the end of an opponents turn is sexy. Not sure if I would want Merieke maindeck though and definitely not 3. Reflector mage is already bad against non-creature match-ups but at least has a 2/3 body.
Not sure if she is better than Hostage taker. Not being able to take artifacts is a thing, and the fact that she doesn't provide an attacking body in an aggro deck is pretty meh. Biggest drawback is probably that she doesn't do anything the turn she comes into play. She has a few advantages though so you can make an argument for her. I will try them both.
I tried Merieke when I found it looking on ScryFall as a 1 of in the board. Tried it for long enough to get it down in a couple different matchups. The only matchup I found it to be decent in was Eldrazi and the mirror. Its way too slow vs Merfolk, Affinity, and other aggro matchups. Does nothing vs control. Thought it would be decent against DS, and it was, but only with a vial on 3. Even then I'd rather another Sin Collector or Tracker there.
A Vial list Top 8'd the same event, for what it's worth. Looked similar to the one that won the Classic last weekend.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
how's everyone finding it overall? any concern cards that might need changing or matchups that are consistently bad?
4 Champion of the Parish
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Kitesail Freebooter
3 Mayor of Avabruck
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Meddling Mage
4 Mantis Rider
3 Reflector Mage
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Eternal Witness
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
3 Reflecting Pool
3 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Blood Crypt
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
2 Vithian Renegades
2 Meddling Mage
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Reflector Mage
2 Izzet Staticaster
Over the course of the day I beat GB Tron, Burn, Rakdos Reanimator, Infect, Hollow One.dec, and The Rack. I only lost to Knightfall and Grixis Shadow. I unintentionally drew with Jeskai Flash/Geist/Queller/whatever you want to call it, after Game 2 took up most of the round because my opponent went on the luckiest streak of top decks I've ever seen.
Some quick notes and impressions:
--I need to move away from the Reflecting Pool mana base. In my last two rounds I constantly got stuck with the shockland-Pools opener, which forced mulligans. Going forward I'm going to go towards Ancient Ziggurats, probably a 2-1 split to start with.
--The Razorverge Thicket is going to become a second Horizon Canopy once I get my hands on one.
--I only cast Collected Company 3 or 4 times total the entire tournament. It's entirely possible that the card is just not needed, and the early velocity of Aether Vial is strictly better. Company did shine versus Jeskai and Shadow, however, so it's not as if it's a bad card, but being able to put our disruptive creatures into play at instant speed earlier than Turn 3-4 is something to be looked at. Switching to Vials also makes running Ziggurats less painful.
--Kitesail Freebooter is the real deal. It is absolutely gross when you can go T2 Freebooter into T3 double Freebooter to completely strip someone's hand away.
--The Big Game Hunter in my board was a flex slot that I had no idea how to fill. Hilariously, I got to cast it for the Madness cost when the Hollow One player Burning Inquiry'd it from my hand to kill his namesake card.
--I did miss Path to Exile in the 75. The deck struggles with heavy creature decks. But if your opponent wants to play boring non-interactive Magic, oh boy, do you love the matchup.
Going forward, I'm going to keep the Company shell intact, until I can collect the 4 Vials I need. Probably going to re-design my sideboard, beginning with 3-4 Paths so I can just do an easy swap between them and my Thalia-Medding Mage package when it comes to the creature matchups. Eternal Witness will probably get the axe for the fourth Reflector Mage. I may look into something like Fiendslayer Paladin or Mirran Crusader for the board too, I'm getting a little tired of my stuff getting Fatal Pushed and Lightning Bolted
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
Deck seems pretty explosive, and can run over anything, but in certain instances, you need answers, and that means either mulliganing until you find that particular human, or using collected company. I don't think its advisable to run both cocos and aether vial, so I'm stuck. A work around is duskwatch recruiter, in place of mayor of avabruck, I think.
—Radha, Keldon warlord
You can't do that in a Coco build.
What does your list look like ? I'm having a blast with Hostage Taker, it works fine vs those decks.
On the games themselves, I like to name Thought-Knot Seer / Geist of Saint Traft in the dark with Med Mage. I play early Lieutenants in priority to grow them big. Unless I have a Mantis that I want bigger than Flickerwisp / Spell Queller.
Ref Mage is MVP VS Smasher (no need to discard), which may me want to slow roll a Med Mage on purpose (unless they have a Vial on 5).
Indeed the Vial version is powerless here. Coco can play Path and Qasali / Disenchant effects that don't rely on etb creatures. Pray for a Pernicious Deed on human legs. ^^
Other more experienced players will have a more thorough interpretation of this, but hostage taker seems perhaps a little better in the vial build than the coco one? Maybe. I guess it depends on the number of mana dorks and whether or not you'd ever even consider ticking a vial up to four (seems sketchy but with a certain winning boardstate a feasible line sometimes)
Like the look of the card though. Perhaps sideboard material for grindy matchups though, rather than maindeck material.
I'm thinking I'll main 2x Dark Confidants, taking out one land and moving one Meddling Mage to the board. Another option is Duskwatch Recruiter, this might be better because it only draws creatures, not late-game Vials or lands. His flip-side is beefier and has synergy with Mayor of Avabruck.
What do you guys think?
Has anyone tried playing one basic forest? I put one in because
Now I've borrowed two Canopies and I want to go down to 19 lands, and I'm having a hard time deciding what to cut. I almost think it should be the basic Plains. There's downsides there too. What do you think?
Playing without 1 basic is such an awful idea, you want some protection against path and GQ. Even Affinity plays 1 basic.
Clarification: I had already added a basic Forest; was talking about removing the Plains and keeping the Forest.
I've played about 20 leagues now with Collin's version. How many Horizon Canopys are you playing (you need 2-3)? How aggressive are you mulliganing? This deck mulligans very aggressively. I tried 2x Bob in the main for awhile but I don't think that's where we want to be right now. He's not aggressive enough in matchups you need a clock and doesn't present immediate value or disruption. I've been running 1x Tireless Tracker in the main as the body isn't bad when you need him to attack and you can get immediate value off him if you have a land to play after casting him.
Duskwatch recruiter seems worthy of a test but at first thought I'd rather have Tireless Tracker or Bob since this deck rarely has 3 mana sitting around.
I tried Merieke when I found it looking on ScryFall as a 1 of in the board. Tried it for long enough to get it down in a couple different matchups. The only matchup I found it to be decent in was Eldrazi and the mirror. Its way too slow vs Merfolk, Affinity, and other aggro matchups. Does nothing vs control. Thought it would be decent against DS, and it was, but only with a vial on 3. Even then I'd rather another Sin Collector or Tracker there.