I would say it is because we have access to a one-sided sweeper in All Is Dust, which benefits greatly from Eldrazi Temples. Sure, you could put fate counters on your permanents, but that's a bit slow.
Ratchet Bomb is superior to Oblivion Stone in this deck.
We have 3-6 CMC guys, and a lot of decks run 1-2 CMC. It's a cheaper but slower "one sided" sweeper, that we can tailor to our needs. O-Stone will either take several turns to set up, or it'll kill your reality smashers along with your opponent's goblin guides, which isn't ideal.
This is the list I'm running at the moment. This guy "nasilemak" seems to be getting good results on MTGO with a very consistent deck list (barely any changes in the last two months). I don't run Hangarback Walkers in the side, though. I run a third Spatial Contortion and another card of my choosing (flexible). Maybe another All is Dust or a Batterskull (can be really good in grindy matchups).
The only difference in my list to the one you posted is that I don't run Chalice MB and only 1x All is Dust MB, other than that my list is identical. Instead, I run 1x Basilisk Collar (for Endbringer), 2x Contortion (as an alternate win with Smasher or as a Bolt) and 2x Warping Wail (as a catch all). I will likely move Chalice to the MB once I figure out what my local Meta is but for now I've decided that an aggro/well rounded direction is where I want to be. Even more so since my main was originally Affinity.
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Platinum Emperion
- Ulamog seems to be getting cut these days, and I can see why. The chance to cast a Karn on Turn 3 is just better than maybe casting Ulamog on turn 5+
- Platinum Emperion is confusing and unnecessary. This would be better as a third Endbringer or a second All Is Dust.
1 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin the Spirit Dragon
I tried Ugin the other day, being 8 mana is a HUGE difference. I'd go with 2 Karn, it seems to be the norm amongst the lists getting results right now. Ugin really *****s on death's shadow/aggro decks though...
2 Basilisk Collar
2 Ratchet Bomb
I dislike these cards in the main. 1 collar is passable, but two is terrible as it can nonbo with your chalices. Ratchet bomb is 100% a sideboard card (unless your meta is 80% goblins?)
Edit: I realised later on you aren't mainboarding chalice.
3 Wastes
3 Ghost Quarter
Cut a wastes and add a fourth GQ. GQ is an all-star and I will never go less than 4 nowadays. If you're worried about blood moon or crumble, having a GQ is far better than a wastes, because you can GQ the targeted land in response and get a wastes (provided you haven't drawn both wastes). It also kills your opponent's lands if necessary.
Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Warping Wail
1 Crucible of Worlds
- I'd mainboard chalice, but I guess it's acceptable if your meta doesn't warrant it. I guess this is why you ran 2x Collar mainboard
- You're missing a needle or two, those things are valuable af.
- No extra All is Dust(s)?
- That's a lot of GY hate.
- Crucible is cute, I own one but haven't tested it yet. Definitely good with that fourth GQ I mentioned.
- the 4 Ratchet Bombs in your 75 seem to go against the fact you have your chalices in the sideboard. Are you expecting a weenie meta, or a non-weenie meta?
Just my off-the-cuff thoughts, chur.
Disagree with your thoughts on Ratchet Bomb, 4th Ghost Quarter, and 6 GY hate cards being too much, but really these are all meta calls. I play exclusively online and think that RB is good main, 4th GQ is unnecessary, and 6 GY hate is necessary to beat Dredge which is still very prevalent. Posted my deck/rationale on recent pages in this thread.
Agree though that Emperion is nonsense, and Ugin costs too much mana. His effect is amazing, but of course we can get that with All is Dust for much cheaper. I might even venture to say that All is Dust is the best card in the deck in the current meta. It just wrecks a huge percentage of it. But it's tricky, because its an absolute brick in the mirror (technically it has 1 use - discarding to their Reality Smasher you're targeting with Dismember), against Affinity, and against classic Tron and Lantern. That's upwards of 20% of the meta where it's a brick. For that reason I like to play only 1 main and keep 2 in the side. The opposite is obviously viable too, just a matter of how you want to spread your percentages out.
I would hedge toward 2 All is Dust main - an 80% effectiveness ratio sounds pretty good to me. I also see little reason to reach for anything other than Karn Liberated or Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger at the "big bomb" spot on the curve. I have to say that I've been a big fan of the full 4 Ghost Quarters so far, though my testing is limited.
To be fair, saying it's an 80% effectiveness ratio is a bit misleading, because there are matchups where it technically has an effect, but it might be very minimal or more situational, like Burn, Ad Nauseam, Titan Shift and Bant Eldrazi for example. But your point is well taken.
Hi
I have been having a horrible time with a Affinity heavy meta what are your plans for affinity
is Hangarback walker for affinity ?
what else decks are Hangarback walkers for any sideboard cards i could get to get a better match up?
Condolences on the Affinity heavy meta. We had a discussion on Hangarback on the previous page. It would be good against Affinity too if you have time. Best cards in the matchup are efficient removal - Ratchet Bomb, Dismember, and Ballista in terms of cards commonly in the 75. Chalice on 0 is good on the play if you know they're on Affinity, and it sounds like you do, so if you're not playing them in the main you probably should be. Pithing Needle is great against Ravager, Plating and manlands if necessary. Spatial Contortion is a fine additional removal spell. You might consider playing Ratchet Bomb in the main given your meta. I recommend it.
Speaking of an Affinity heavy meta. If you run All is Dust main it is basically a dead card. (Also dead in the mirror match) Oblivion Stone maindeck gives you that sweeper in this instance. Again in an Affinity heavy meta, if not stick with AiD.
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@TonTo
Scapeshift or a well-played Primetime deck is a near-unwinnable match unless they mulligan to oblivion and you run 3+ Warping Wail in the deck, and even then it isn't good. You have no efficient way to interact with them and no good way to stop Scapeshift for anywhere from 18-36. Every deck has that match-up, and this is it for this deck.
@everyone
Maindeck Chalice vs. other stuff has been a discussion since the deck was designed, I think. I believe the correct answer is: what is the meta you think you are going into?
Merfolk, Elves, other Creature Combo? Ratchet Bomb + All is Dust and maybe 2 Basilisk Collar to buff your Burn matches.
Death's Shadow, Burn, Control, Cheerios, Ad Nauseum, etc.? 4 Chalice, 1 All is Dust, 1 Basilisk Collar.
I also always like 1-of Ugin unless we start to see Tron come back heavily. Ugin crushes creature decks.
That's my feelings on it at least. And of course, if you make the wrong call or face the decks you weren't expecting to face, you will lose more games.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I agree that the Valakut decks feel like the worst matchup, but my experience doesn't actually bear that out. I'm actually 17-18 in matches against the deck, so there are several matchups that are worse. I only play one Warping Wail so it hasn't been much of a factor, and it's not a great answer even in multiples anyway because they can still just kill you with titan. I play 2 Tec Edge main, which does help quite a bit, esp adding 2 Crucible and 2 Surgical post-side. But honestly the best card in the matchup is Thought-Knot Seer because their deck is really threat-light. Often they only have 1 in hand and if you take it it usually gives you a few turns to close the game out. Certainly the worst feeling matchup because they have hands you just cant beat (2 threats when you TKS them as an example), and you have minimal interaction, but it's not close to unwinnable. I do recommend people try at least 1 Tec Edge if they see a lot of this deck.
Collected over 3 months of playing the very unforgiving MTGO metagame in the Competitive Leagues. Just breached the 700 match mark.
This is my current deck. It has evolved over the 3 months - at first I wasn't playing Chalice main and the flex slot cards have changed, but I'm quite happy with this iteration atm.
73% win rate against Burn with a large sample size. I think this will come down a bit as I'm 7-1 in my last 8, but 70% seems realistic.
71% win rate against Merfolk, also with a pretty large sample size. This was always my most hated deck to play against when I was on classic Tron, even though it was 50/50, so I continued to dread it even though it's obviously fine in this case.
Being almost 50/50 against Valakut because it feels so bad, as discussed above.
Other fun ones:
11-2 against Grixis Delver
0-8 against Eggs. Sure glad this one hasn't gained any traction!
0-8 against Eggs. Sure glad this one hasn't gained any traction!
Trinisphere X2 in the side vs. Eggs maybe? Looks like you don't run into it much though.
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Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
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Thanks for sharing your data! It's interesting to see some of the matchup breakdowns (especially the Merfolk one - my experiences as a Merfolk pilot are the exact opposite of yours, which probably means that the matchup is pilot-dependent). Interesting to see Shadow being below 50%, as well - I haven't faced the matchup much yet, but it seemed rather even.
The Shadow variants are tough. Challenging to play against because of how dynamic and powerful they are, along with Shadow itself just being a very unintuitive card. Thoughtseize is so good against us, Fatal Push easily picks off TKS, and Goyf and Shadow are just so massive they end the game very quickly. Post-board Fulminator is another nail. Best cards are Smasher, Endbringer, All is Dust and Karn, so needless to say the longer the game goes the more we're favored. Karn is especially good against the Jund version as they have no Bolt to finish him off or Stubborn Denial to counter.
Chalice is the other obviously good card in the matchup, but the Jund version has more ways to kill it - usually 2 Abrupt Decay and 2 Kolaghan's Command, and they have a lot of spells that don't cost 1. Whereas Grixis usually has only 2 Kolaghan's Command as interaction with it, and many more of their spells costs 1. It bricks Grixis much harder, and Tasigur and Angler are much easier to deal with than Goyf. Both die to Dismember and trade with Smasher or Enbringer if need be. For those reasons I'm happier to play against Grixis, because it just feels like I have more bases covered. Interesting that I'm statistically worse against it at the moment. Stubborn Denial and Snapcaster are certainly cards.
They're also quite difficult to sideboard against, and I've seen articles by pros saying they weren't exactly sure what to do. I have a plan I've settled on over the past few weeks, but I'm not sure it's correct.
Sometimes I wonder if Brittle Effigy could be useful as a X2 SB against DS decks. Kind of like a mini-Karn one shot effect on Goyf or Shadow. Just a thought, not sure it would be worth testing or not as a 1 cmc cost Effigy runs smack into Chalice as a non-bo.
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It doesn't seem to offer much over Ratchet Bomb against DS.
I can see where it appears that way at first glance and RB is more than likely the better choice. RB can be removed before you can use it vs. DS. Effigy could be activated at instant speed if 4 mana are available and it does exile the creature potentially weakening Goyf or future Goyfs. I agree the card is narrow and slow, but Ratchet Bomb isn't exactly quick either, albeit far more flexible. Its just a thought as for 5 mana overall I think I'd rather run more Batterskull or maybe another Karn.
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Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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We have 3-6 CMC guys, and a lot of decks run 1-2 CMC. It's a cheaper but slower "one sided" sweeper, that we can tailor to our needs. O-Stone will either take several turns to set up, or it'll kill your reality smashers along with your opponent's goblin guides, which isn't ideal.
This is the list I'm running at the moment. This guy "nasilemak" seems to be getting good results on MTGO with a very consistent deck list (barely any changes in the last two months). I don't run Hangarback Walkers in the side, though. I run a third Spatial Contortion and another card of my choosing (flexible). Maybe another All is Dust or a Batterskull (can be really good in grindy matchups).
Mainboard feels rock solid though.
// NAME : Eldra Tron
// CREATOR : nasilemak
// FORMAT :
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [OGW] Sea Gate Wreckage
2 [OGW] Wastes
4 [ROE] Eldrazi Temple
4 [C15] Ghost Quarter
4 [9E] Urza's Mine
4 [9E] Urza's Power Plant
4 [9E] Urza's Tower
3 [OGW] Endbringer
4 [OGW] Matter Reshaper
4 [OGW] Reality Smasher
4 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
4 [] Walking Ballista
2 [NPH] Karn Liberated
2 [C15] Mind Stone
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [NPH] Dismember
2 [ROE] All Is Dust
Disagree with your thoughts on Ratchet Bomb, 4th Ghost Quarter, and 6 GY hate cards being too much, but really these are all meta calls. I play exclusively online and think that RB is good main, 4th GQ is unnecessary, and 6 GY hate is necessary to beat Dredge which is still very prevalent. Posted my deck/rationale on recent pages in this thread.
Agree though that Emperion is nonsense, and Ugin costs too much mana. His effect is amazing, but of course we can get that with All is Dust for much cheaper. I might even venture to say that All is Dust is the best card in the deck in the current meta. It just wrecks a huge percentage of it. But it's tricky, because its an absolute brick in the mirror (technically it has 1 use - discarding to their Reality Smasher you're targeting with Dismember), against Affinity, and against classic Tron and Lantern. That's upwards of 20% of the meta where it's a brick. For that reason I like to play only 1 main and keep 2 in the side. The opposite is obviously viable too, just a matter of how you want to spread your percentages out.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I have been having a horrible time with a Affinity heavy meta what are your plans for affinity
is Hangarback walker for affinity ?
what else decks are Hangarback walkers for any sideboard cards i could get to get a better match up?
UBRWGHumansUBRWG
UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron
Legacy
WDeath & TaxesW
Pauper
RGoblinsR
EDH
UGMerfolk ComboGU
Standard
UWApproachWU
Condolences on the Affinity heavy meta. We had a discussion on Hangarback on the previous page. It would be good against Affinity too if you have time. Best cards in the matchup are efficient removal - Ratchet Bomb, Dismember, and Ballista in terms of cards commonly in the 75. Chalice on 0 is good on the play if you know they're on Affinity, and it sounds like you do, so if you're not playing them in the main you probably should be. Pithing Needle is great against Ravager, Plating and manlands if necessary. Spatial Contortion is a fine additional removal spell. You might consider playing Ratchet Bomb in the main given your meta. I recommend it.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Scapeshift or a well-played Primetime deck is a near-unwinnable match unless they mulligan to oblivion and you run 3+ Warping Wail in the deck, and even then it isn't good. You have no efficient way to interact with them and no good way to stop Scapeshift for anywhere from 18-36. Every deck has that match-up, and this is it for this deck.
@everyone
Maindeck Chalice vs. other stuff has been a discussion since the deck was designed, I think. I believe the correct answer is: what is the meta you think you are going into?
Merfolk, Elves, other Creature Combo? Ratchet Bomb + All is Dust and maybe 2 Basilisk Collar to buff your Burn matches.
Death's Shadow, Burn, Control, Cheerios, Ad Nauseum, etc.? 4 Chalice, 1 All is Dust, 1 Basilisk Collar.
I also always like 1-of Ugin unless we start to see Tron come back heavily. Ugin crushes creature decks.
That's my feelings on it at least. And of course, if you make the wrong call or face the decks you weren't expecting to face, you will lose more games.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
https://islandmtg.wordpress.com/2017/05/03/games-record-spreadsheet/
So I thought I'd post my data:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CkLD8REjIZSQ_B2i7nqfUgnPYsv3WHCfrbJDpIpWTtY/edit?usp=sharing
Collected over 3 months of playing the very unforgiving MTGO metagame in the Competitive Leagues. Just breached the 700 match mark.
This is my current deck. It has evolved over the 3 months - at first I wasn't playing Chalice main and the flex slot cards have changed, but I'm quite happy with this iteration atm.
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endbringer
4 Walking Ballista
2 Karn Liberated
1 Batterskull
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Expedition Map
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Dismember
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Wastes
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ratchet Bomb
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Warping Wail
2 Basilisk Collar
1 Batterskull
Biggest surprises:
73% win rate against Burn with a large sample size. I think this will come down a bit as I'm 7-1 in my last 8, but 70% seems realistic.
71% win rate against Merfolk, also with a pretty large sample size. This was always my most hated deck to play against when I was on classic Tron, even though it was 50/50, so I continued to dread it even though it's obviously fine in this case.
Being almost 50/50 against Valakut because it feels so bad, as discussed above.
Other fun ones:
11-2 against Grixis Delver
0-8 against Eggs. Sure glad this one hasn't gained any traction!
I'd love to hear any comments or questions!
Trinisphere X2 in the side vs. Eggs maybe? Looks like you don't run into it much though.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Chalice is the other obviously good card in the matchup, but the Jund version has more ways to kill it - usually 2 Abrupt Decay and 2 Kolaghan's Command, and they have a lot of spells that don't cost 1. Whereas Grixis usually has only 2 Kolaghan's Command as interaction with it, and many more of their spells costs 1. It bricks Grixis much harder, and Tasigur and Angler are much easier to deal with than Goyf. Both die to Dismember and trade with Smasher or Enbringer if need be. For those reasons I'm happier to play against Grixis, because it just feels like I have more bases covered. Interesting that I'm statistically worse against it at the moment. Stubborn Denial and Snapcaster are certainly cards.
They're also quite difficult to sideboard against, and I've seen articles by pros saying they weren't exactly sure what to do. I have a plan I've settled on over the past few weeks, but I'm not sure it's correct.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I can see where it appears that way at first glance and RB is more than likely the better choice. RB can be removed before you can use it vs. DS. Effigy could be activated at instant speed if 4 mana are available and it does exile the creature potentially weakening Goyf or future Goyfs. I agree the card is narrow and slow, but Ratchet Bomb isn't exactly quick either, albeit far more flexible. Its just a thought as for 5 mana overall I think I'd rather run more Batterskull or maybe another Karn.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."