It does prevent Ballista and Chalice from entering the battlefield with counters, because 'entering the battlefield with counters' is short for enter the battlefield, and then place the counters. However it being a 3 drop means we can chalice on 1 all we want before it comes down.
Maybe not better than Relic, but at 2 cmc plays better with Chalice and targets. Maybe worth a shot in the SB?
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
It's 2cc, doesn't cantrip, and requires mana investment with each use. I don't think you'd want maybe more than a 3/1 or 2/1 split for when you need to remove specific targets in the graveyard.
Being able to exile specific cards is nice, plus the 2 CMC is better with Chalice as pointed out. The hate is strong in this set. I guess they weren't kidding when they named the set.
These new cards give us choices, but I don't seem them really impacting the meta much as the graveyard hate was already strong enough.
I'm not getting worried about Solemnity. Only white decks can use it, and in a lot of cases it's going to be a non-bo with their deck. Affinity can't use it, Counters Company and Humans Company can't use it, Ad Nauseam can't use it. What else...UWx Control variants aren't particularly worried about Chalice, Walker or Ballista. Same story with Abzan. Soo I can't really see this card impacting us much at all.
Potential colorless manland??? Would need to run 3 or 4 Ghost Quarter for sure to activate. Meshes with Sanctum of Ugin as well.
Its nice having options although they don't seem strong, but it seems good they are there with this set.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I've been running into the Humans deck online a lot lately, which is presumably seeing more play as a reaction to Eldrazi Tron and Shadow. Multiple 5-0s by Andrew Cuneo (Gainsay) and Olle Rade. All is Dust is nice if you can get there, but they have multiple Sin Collectors, and Meddling Mages out of the side for it. The 3-mana Thalia is a huge beating against us too, as is Reflector Mage. Rough matchup.
yeah i completely agree this is a rough matchup. i knew i got lucky last night,
current Sideboard plan for humans
- 2 Relic
-4 Chalice
+2 Hangerback
+2 Ratchet Bomb
+1 Wurmcoil
+1 Basilisk Collar
its in my playgroup in the hands of an experienced humans/white weenie pilot.
my advice is use ballista carefully, deny there mana producers. with ballista and dismember be careful of the multiple pumps they get from other humans.
new thalia is the real deal
This is my SB plan as well. Do we want a 3rd All is Dist in the board?
I always like having access to a 3rd All is Dust. Recently shaved down to 2 in the 75 but I think I'll go back up, even though it's not really a bullet against Humans like it is against a lot of other creature decks.
Also have run into multiple Grixis Shadow opponents recently playing By Force. Makes sense given how hard they get bricked by Chalice.
Potential colorless manland??? Would need to run 3 or 4 Ghost Quarter for sure to activate. Meshes with Sanctum of Ugin as well.
Its nice having options although they don't seem strong, but it seems good they are there with this set.
Dread Statuary is better in my opinion, because we're not exactly a mana-starved deck and this one doesn't have the extra cost of exiling lands. Even better, in my opinion, is Westvale Abbey.
Hi, I currently have Grixis shadow deck but I am thinking about selling/trading him to get eldrazi tron deck and then after make it Eldrazi stompy in Legacy.
Can eldrazi Tron stay at the top for a long time? And what are the weakness of the deck in general.
Potential colorless manland??? Would need to run 3 or 4 Ghost Quarter for sure to activate. Meshes with Sanctum of Ugin as well.
Its nice having options although they don't seem strong, but it seems good they are there with this set.
Dread Statuary is better in my opinion, because we're not exactly a mana-starved deck and this one doesn't have the extra cost of exiling lands. Even better, in my opinion, is Westvale Abbey.
I'd agree on Dread Statuary, but I'll have to disagree on Abbey for the fact that it is just too hard to activate in our lists. Hostile Desert isn't a guarantee to play a manland like Abbey either. Its conditional. But its conditions are easier to meet than Abbey. Again, I think its another option, albeit not necessarily a strong one.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Another land for our flex land spots. Looks to be good vs. GY decks and decks with Goyf.
That is interesting. So many good utility lands, so few slots.
Some advantages to consider:
It can't be countered.
Plays nice with Chalice of the Void!
I will definitely be picking up some of these.
I know I'm a day late here but seems like this would be great while running Crucible of Worldstoo. Especially with Solemnity being spoiled to possibly hurt our Chalice plays past turn 3.
so sideboarding. i need some advice.
im not keen on the 2 grafdiggers cages, company isnt running as rife as i thought it would and i have access to 4 relics in the 75 to deal with Dredge.
also considering a 3rd AiD
please let me know what you think, if you plan is different, if its helpful, ETC. ETC.
just want to start a good discussion around sideboard plans.
NB this is a paper list and will be playing in a live meta, not MTGO meta.
NB2 I have tried to include all tier 1 & 2 decks, also thrown in some in my loca meta or old archetypses that people still play.
NB3 some of these matchups I don't have extended testing against and as such could be wrong
Your SB plans look pretty fine in general. Some things that I do differently:
Ad Nauseam:
Keep in All is Dust. It's not great, but it kills Phyrexian Unlife which is a key combo piece, and also Leyline of Sanctity which they often have. Also I don't bring in Pithing Needle. In the abstract it shuts off Lightning Storm, but it doesn't actually work because they just draw their deck and bounce the Needle before casting LS. Surgical and Basilisk Collar don't do much I think.
Jund:
Needle and Collar have good utility, but they get blown up by Kcommand easily. I'd rather play a Wurmcoil and a Hangarback in those slots.
Grixis Shadow:
I don't like going up to 4 Relics against them. It's obviously good, but in that scenario we have 8 cards (4 Map, 4 Relic) that get countered by Chalice on 1, which is too many IMO. Maybe it's ok if they start packing By Force more, so Chalice will die more often, but at the moment I think 6 is the magic number in terms of 1 drops in this scenario. Also I like keeping in at least 1 Karn, but I could go either way on it.
Humans:
I like your plan but I think I'd also bring in the 2 Warping Wail in favor of 2 Reality Smasher. It kills a good amount of their threats, can accel us into All is Dust or even chump block if necessary. I think we're just trying to stabilize against this deck and Wail is better for that than Smasher.
Storm:
Don't you want Grafdigger's Cage?
I definitely cut Karns here. This is a matchup you always want to have open mana to interact with them, and playing Karn often involves tapping out. Especially considering they have Remand. And even if you resolve it, they can still pretty easily kill you the next turn.
I know I'm a day late here but seems like this would be great while running Crucible of Worldstoo. Especially with Solemnity being spoiled to possibly hurt our Chalice plays past turn 3.
I've thought about how the deck would work with a toolbox of sacrificial lands (Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge, Buried Ruins, Sanctum of Ugin, and now Scavenger Grounds) with Crucible main. It's a neat idea, and when it worked, it would be great. The problem is giving up a main deck slot for Crucibles is hard because the list is so tight. And if you only have one Crucible, what are the odds you are even going to see it? It wouldn't be consistent. Plus you are generally going to want to tutor with Map to get Temples or Tron pieces unless it's a long grindy game. Plus Cavern of Souls and Sea Gate Wreckage are going to be better choices in a lot of situations ...
If I had more opportunities to play I'd probably test the idea, but as it is I'm not inspired enough by it to want to try. I still like Crucible in my board though even if I don't swap it in very often.
Graveyard hate is going to be even more important against BRx decks now that Claim // Fame is a thing. Claim target Snapcaster target Claim target Death's Shadow... wtf. I'm going to a 4th Relic.
I started streaming this deck on mtgo if anyone wants to tune in and discuss mulligans and sequencing, twitch.tv/thursdayisgo
I should be streaming a few hours a night on almost every weekday, currently running the conventional list that doomwake has been performing well with.
Admittedly, I'm pretty new to the deck but some very experienced friends typically join chat to give me advice.
I started streaming this deck on mtgo if anyone wants to tune in and discuss mulligans and sequencing, twitch.tv/thursdayisgo
I should be streaming a few hours a night on almost every weekday, currently running the conventional list that doomwake has been performing well with.
Admittedly, I'm pretty new to the deck but some very experienced friends typically join chat to give me advice.
I gave a follow as I'd like to watch a bit (and discuss plays when possible).
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Legacy: Burn (18-6-1 over multiple events)
Eldrazi and Taxes (under construction)
Modern: Eldrazi Tron (All sanctioned events; Record: 38-9-2 over ~12 Wed/Fri Night Modern events: 78% match win rate; last updated 9.13.17)
Jeskai Harbinger
Naya Burn (20-6-2 over multiple 1K and FNM events; retired)
Building: Esper control and a mill deck for fun and some variety.
i looking for some tips to choose the right target with karn, cause must of time i just exil big creature or some land and then discard hand
Threats like big creatures or Planeswalkers are obvious targets, not much analysis needed there. After that, I always look at their mana base and see if they have a color on only one land - like for a Jeskai player, I might take away their red.
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WG G/W Tron GW
BG G/B Tron GB
GG Mono G Tron GG
RG G/R Tron GR
Crook of Condemnation
Maybe not better than Relic, but at 2 cmc plays better with Chalice and targets. Maybe worth a shot in the SB?
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
These new cards give us choices, but I don't seem them really impacting the meta much as the graveyard hate was already strong enough.
Potential colorless manland??? Would need to run 3 or 4 Ghost Quarter for sure to activate. Meshes with Sanctum of Ugin as well.
Its nice having options although they don't seem strong, but it seems good they are there with this set.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
This is my SB plan as well. Do we want a 3rd All is Dist in the board?
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Also have run into multiple Grixis Shadow opponents recently playing By Force. Makes sense given how hard they get bricked by Chalice.
Dread Statuary is better in my opinion, because we're not exactly a mana-starved deck and this one doesn't have the extra cost of exiling lands. Even better, in my opinion, is Westvale Abbey.
Can eldrazi Tron stay at the top for a long time? And what are the weakness of the deck in general.
Thank you
I'd agree on Dread Statuary, but I'll have to disagree on Abbey for the fact that it is just too hard to activate in our lists. Hostile Desert isn't a guarantee to play a manland like Abbey either. Its conditional. But its conditions are easier to meet than Abbey. Again, I think its another option, albeit not necessarily a strong one.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I know I'm a day late here but seems like this would be great while running Crucible of Worldstoo. Especially with Solemnity being spoiled to possibly hurt our Chalice plays past turn 3.
Your SB plans look pretty fine in general. Some things that I do differently:
Ad Nauseam:
Keep in All is Dust. It's not great, but it kills Phyrexian Unlife which is a key combo piece, and also Leyline of Sanctity which they often have. Also I don't bring in Pithing Needle. In the abstract it shuts off Lightning Storm, but it doesn't actually work because they just draw their deck and bounce the Needle before casting LS. Surgical and Basilisk Collar don't do much I think.
Jund:
Needle and Collar have good utility, but they get blown up by Kcommand easily. I'd rather play a Wurmcoil and a Hangarback in those slots.
Grixis Shadow:
I don't like going up to 4 Relics against them. It's obviously good, but in that scenario we have 8 cards (4 Map, 4 Relic) that get countered by Chalice on 1, which is too many IMO. Maybe it's ok if they start packing By Force more, so Chalice will die more often, but at the moment I think 6 is the magic number in terms of 1 drops in this scenario. Also I like keeping in at least 1 Karn, but I could go either way on it.
Humans:
I like your plan but I think I'd also bring in the 2 Warping Wail in favor of 2 Reality Smasher. It kills a good amount of their threats, can accel us into All is Dust or even chump block if necessary. I think we're just trying to stabilize against this deck and Wail is better for that than Smasher.
Storm:
Don't you want Grafdigger's Cage?
I definitely cut Karns here. This is a matchup you always want to have open mana to interact with them, and playing Karn often involves tapping out. Especially considering they have Remand. And even if you resolve it, they can still pretty easily kill you the next turn.
I've thought about how the deck would work with a toolbox of sacrificial lands (Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge, Buried Ruins, Sanctum of Ugin, and now Scavenger Grounds) with Crucible main. It's a neat idea, and when it worked, it would be great. The problem is giving up a main deck slot for Crucibles is hard because the list is so tight. And if you only have one Crucible, what are the odds you are even going to see it? It wouldn't be consistent. Plus you are generally going to want to tutor with Map to get Temples or Tron pieces unless it's a long grindy game. Plus Cavern of Souls and Sea Gate Wreckage are going to be better choices in a lot of situations ...
If I had more opportunities to play I'd probably test the idea, but as it is I'm not inspired enough by it to want to try. I still like Crucible in my board though even if I don't swap it in very often.
It is worse than Tormod's Crypt for the most part as well imho if you want something that doesn't conflict with a Chalice on 1.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
I should be streaming a few hours a night on almost every weekday, currently running the conventional list that doomwake has been performing well with.
Admittedly, I'm pretty new to the deck but some very experienced friends typically join chat to give me advice.
I gave a follow as I'd like to watch a bit (and discuss plays when possible).
Eldrazi and Taxes (under construction)
Modern: Eldrazi Tron (All sanctioned events; Record: 38-9-2 over ~12 Wed/Fri Night Modern events: 78% match win rate; last updated 9.13.17)
Jeskai Harbinger
Naya Burn (20-6-2 over multiple 1K and FNM events; retired)
Building: Esper control and a mill deck for fun and some variety.
Threats like big creatures or Planeswalkers are obvious targets, not much analysis needed there. After that, I always look at their mana base and see if they have a color on only one land - like for a Jeskai player, I might take away their red.