Is timely reinforcements not worth it vs jund/abzan? don't they have a problem dealing with 3 1/1's?
I've always wondered if negate is worth it vs jund, probably is more so now than previously because they have dreadbore and maelstrom pulse for nahiri?
Also, can probably cut snare vs abzan, if they don't play bob right? Not sure it's worth it for just goyf and ooze.
I don't know if this is correct: but I typically keep all of my counter magic in vs Jund.
I typically side out -3 lightning helix and bring in +2 negates, + 1 wrath of god.
Is timely reinforcements not worth it vs jund/abzan? don't they have a problem dealing with 3 1/1's?
I've always wondered if negate is worth it vs jund, probably is more so now than previously because they have dreadbore and maelstrom pulse for nahiri?
Also, can probably cut snare vs abzan, if they don't play bob right? Not sure it's worth it for just goyf and ooze.
I don't know if this is correct: but I typically keep all of my counter magic in vs Jund.
I typically side out -3 lightning helix and bring in +2 negates, + 1 wrath of god.
I usually trim helix as well, but I usually cut remands first (vs jund, not abzan). Seems strange, but the games always go super late, where remand doesn't really do much since they just recast whatever they I remaand. I've enjoyed having access to 1 helix, since often I find myself dying to ravines (well that and stupid thrun). But then again, that was before I added a ghost quarter, so cutting all helixes might be fine now.
I would love to try out this deck... but the mirror seems to be a layer of hell. And one of the deeper ones. Any recommendations other than "avoid it"?
I actually enjoy the mirror. Like most blue mirrors, it's mostly about hitting lands to be able to fight in the counter wars. Whoever lands nahiri first is in a good spot obviously, since just the threat of the ultimate makes the opponent throw a bunch of burn at it. My advice for the mirror, and blue matchups in general, is just be patient, don't just slam your sorcery speed threats (geist, crumble, nahiri) without counters backup, both to protect your threats and counter their nahiri on their turn. Also, taking damage from snapcaster most of the time will be better than pathing it...whenever someone paths my snapcaster in a blue mirror I feel so far ahead.
I would love to try out this deck... but the mirror seems to be a layer of hell. And one of the deeper ones. Any recommendations other than "avoid it"?
I like the mirror more now that I don't play Nahiri... ;P.
I would love to try out this deck... but the mirror seems to be a layer of hell. And one of the deeper ones. Any recommendations other than "avoid it"?
I actually enjoy the mirror. Like most blue mirrors, it's mostly about hitting lands to be able to fight in the counter wars. Whoever lands nahiri first is in a good spot obviously, since just the threat of the ultimate makes the opponent throw a bunch of burn at it. My advice for the mirror, and blue matchups in general, is just be patient, don't just slam your sorcery speed threats (geist, crumble, nahiri) without counters backup, both to protect your threats and counter their nahiri on their turn. Also, taking damage from snapcaster most of the time will be better than pathing it...whenever someone paths my snapcaster in a blue mirror I feel so far ahead.
I just played the mirror for the first time on Tuesday (with minor differences in our lists; he had Cryptic and Electrolyze, I did not), and had a lot of fun. I didn't know it was the mirror game 1 because I didn't see a Nahiri from him (I had mine for the win), and game 2 was a fun back-and-forth where I was able to tap out in response to his play on my end step to "bait" him into using four out of five lands on his turn to resolve Nahiri, which then allowed me to play Geist of Saint Traft on the next turn. I was able to kill his Nahiri with Geist, and eventually rode that same Geist to victory a number of turns later -- while also winning a counter-war to prevent him from trading a Snapcaster for my Geist, and using a Snapcaster of my own to kill his Geist. (Heck of a lot more fun than the Eggs match I played the previous round. -_-)
Anyone been playing some Blessed Alliance? Card is nuts, answers hexproof threats and gains life against aggro.
I think Timely Reinforcements is strictly better with Nahiri.
That being said I've just started playing Blessed Alliance in a non-nahiri variant and love it. Super versatile.
I believe they do that to have another win condition, so you could maximize the way to get the job done. 1st way Nahiri's Ult., 2nd Colonnade or/and snap/bolt, 3rd Ajani's ultimate (that happens quite often).
Above that they're pretty much synergic: keep tapped a permanent, use nahiri to exile that, or just -2 to helix as another way to protect her.
I think it is more for the extra lifegain plus the Nahiri synergy like you mention.
Not sure I like loading on 4 CMC PWs. Mostly for the mana curve considerations. Also if you wanted a PW that had more "impact on the board" I would probably prefer Elspeth KE or Gideon Ally since they can get blockers set up. Ajani is just too similar to Nahiri in role/function.
That is why I have like my singleton Jace VP. It is a play you can set up on turns 2/3 in between the occasional tap lands or holding up a 1 CMC spell, then it almost always flips on the first activation at which point you drop Nahiri and they have to struggle uphill just to break even.
Other than that I am definitely going to pick up/try a Kher Keep. 0/1 Kobolds are just funny. (the token is called "Kobolds of Kher Keep" plural? lulz)
Lost a heart breaking game 3 in round 9 to miss 8-1
Jund 2-0 W
Scapeshift 0-2 L
Ad Naeseum 2-1 W
Bushwhacker Zoo 2-1 W
Jund 2-0 W
Jund 2-0 W
U/W hexproof 2-0 W
Jund 2-0 W
Storm 1-2 L
Wish me luck tomorrow!
Best of luck tomorrow. Congrats on a day 2 performance thus far.
Mostly I am impressed that you went 8-0 in games against Jund. I mean that matchup is still close even with AV.
A loss against storm is regrettable, but variance is a thing.
@chaos021
At first I thought it might be some Zur the Enchanter type deck, but without black it is most likely some Geist + Invisible Stalker deck that maybe plays a little slower than the GW version. Dunno that is my guess at the moment. Slippery Bogle is still blue, and white has the really important enchantments with Daybreak Coronet and Ethereal Armor, just add in some evasion + card advantage enchantments from blue and maybe that is a thing.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I see you have no Crumble to Dust (or Spreading Seas) against Tron. How do you sideboard for that match? And how do you find the match-up without ways to disrupt their mana base?
I see you have no Crumble to Dust (or Spreading Seas) against Tron. How do you sideboard for that match? And how do you find the match-up without ways to disrupt their mana base?
Mostly I concede that it is a bad matchup. Even with 2-3 cards in the SB for you are still an underdog.
From my SB I would be bringing in Mindcensor, Clique, Geist, Negate, and maybe the D-sphere depending on what read I have. I'd side out some bolts + paths (leave some in in case of Wurm Coil) + helix + anger.
I just lean on my permission spells plus getting an early threat to clock them in order to finish the game as quick as possible.
For me it was a matter of role assessment. Not to mention I believe those slots are better served with cards that see more play in other matchups.
Basically I feel I am getting net value by having more versatile SB slots for other matchups which might raise my win percentage up to %60+ rather than raise the tron matchup to near even post board (which still means you are unlikely to win the match since they are ahead game 1).
If tron rises up to the presence it had 3ish months ago I might change my tune.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I see you have no Crumble to Dust (or Spreading Seas) against Tron. How do you sideboard for that match? And how do you find the match-up without ways to disrupt their mana base?
Mostly I concede that it is a bad matchup. Even with 2-3 cards in the SB for you are still an underdog.
From my SB I would be bringing in Mindcensor, Clique, Geist, Negate, and maybe the D-sphere depending on what read I have. I'd side out some bolts + paths (leave some in in case of Wurm Coil) + helix + anger.
I just lean on my permission spells plus getting an early threat to clock them in order to finish the game as quick as possible.
For me it was a matter of role assessment. Not to mention I believe those slots are better served with cards that see more play in other matchups.
Basically I feel I am getting net value by having more versatile SB slots for other matchups which might raise my win percentage up to %60+ rather than raise the tron matchup to near even post board (which still means you are unlikely to win the match since they are ahead game 1).
If tron rises up to the presence it had 3ish months ago I might change my tune.
That makes a lot of sense. It's the approach I'm taking as well, though just for FNM-ish levels for now, and I don't have enough reps against Tron yet to really feel like I know what approach I want to take. And when I see that other, better players (Jim Davis, etc.) have 2 Crumble to Dust (and often 2 Spreading Seas as well) in the sideboard, it makes me wonder if I'm just wrong. Interesting to see you're taking the same approach.
That makes a lot of sense. It's the approach I'm taking as well, though just for FNM-ish levels for now, and I don't have enough reps against Tron yet to really feel like I know what approach I want to take. And when I see that other, better players (Jim Davis, etc.) have 2 Crumble to Dust (and often 2 Spreading Seas as well) in the sideboard, it makes me wonder if I'm just wrong. Interesting to see you're taking the same approach.
I mean if Tron is decently represented in your local area where you play then I definitely recommend having some sideboard technology against them. However I tend to build my sideboards pretty 'generic' because I play at a couple different stores, not to mention online or the occasional tournament within driving distance.
The pros and numerous other players with Crumble or Spreading Seas aren't wrong, but holding up 2-3 slots for a matchup I might play once or twice in a series of rounds AND those cards have to be in my hand at the right time AND they can't have natural tron on the play (t3 karn = you lose) AND...etc, etc.
I'd personally rather just use those slots for maybe another negate, lifegain spell, sweeper, etc; which in conjunction with my other sideboard cards means I have a lot of game to bring in against a bunch of matchups.
Granted this is all because I don't see Tron or Valakut type decks as much as I used to.
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Congrats on the 50th place, Chris! Glad the deck felt great man. Lets wait and see what happens at Lille and Indy (it seems we had an 8-1 deck there). Would like to hear about the GP experience itself and some match info you find interesting to share. Also, well done beating Saito! How was that?
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Modern:WU WU Control | WBG Abzan Company Frontier:UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
I avoided bad match ups for the most part only Scapeshift and Ad Naseum are unfavorable.
I prepared to beat Jund and went a whooping 12-0 in games against them.
I'm a little tired to most my list but my maindeck spells mirrored Jim Davis but I don't play Timely in the maindeck.
Sideboard
2 Negate
2 Rest in Peace
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Stony Silence
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Izzet Statiscaster
1 Wear/Tear
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Anger of the Gods
Any questions feel free to ask.
Money finish and 2 pro points.
The deck felt fantastic!
Congrats on a solid finish.
You dodged some bad matchups, but to be honest I feel like going 12-0 against Jund is a testament to your play skill. That matchup can be grindy, even if we might be slightly favored with AV.
Can't say I condone zero 4 CMC sweepers (Wrath or Verdict), but results don't lie.
Did any cards in the main deck or sideboard stand out as particularly good or bad? I don't mean cards like Crumble, which obviously isn't good when you never play Tron style decks. But more in a general sense. Like was the singleton Geist worth the spot?
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
hmmm overall I would say jeskai harbinger had a pretty lackluster performance across the 3 GPs this weekend.
No top 8 appearances, 1 top 32, and 2-3 top 64 (MTGSalvations own @TappingStones is one of these).
Even with Nahiri + AV it looks like jeskai is still lacking the power to keep up with jund, but I guess that is to be expected.
Metagame is full of Suicide Zoo, Burn, Infect, Affinity, and Jund. Bant Eldrazi and Dredge are decently represented, which only makes the environment more hostile for us. Runner ups are probably Ad Nauseum and Merfolk.
Looks like we will have to keep adapting in order to keep up. If not then I feel out tier 1 status is not long for this world.
Maybe a move towards a more controlling version that de-emphasizes the Nahiri combo? I saw plenty of UW lists rocking multiple Cryptics + 4 Colonnades.
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I don't know if this is correct: but I typically keep all of my counter magic in vs Jund.
I typically side out -3 lightning helix and bring in +2 negates, + 1 wrath of god.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I usually trim helix as well, but I usually cut remands first (vs jund, not abzan). Seems strange, but the games always go super late, where remand doesn't really do much since they just recast whatever they I remaand. I've enjoyed having access to 1 helix, since often I find myself dying to ravines (well that and stupid thrun). But then again, that was before I added a ghost quarter, so cutting all helixes might be fine now.
I actually enjoy the mirror. Like most blue mirrors, it's mostly about hitting lands to be able to fight in the counter wars. Whoever lands nahiri first is in a good spot obviously, since just the threat of the ultimate makes the opponent throw a bunch of burn at it. My advice for the mirror, and blue matchups in general, is just be patient, don't just slam your sorcery speed threats (geist, crumble, nahiri) without counters backup, both to protect your threats and counter their nahiri on their turn. Also, taking damage from snapcaster most of the time will be better than pathing it...whenever someone paths my snapcaster in a blue mirror I feel so far ahead.
I like the mirror more now that I don't play Nahiri... ;P.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I just played the mirror for the first time on Tuesday (with minor differences in our lists; he had Cryptic and Electrolyze, I did not), and had a lot of fun. I didn't know it was the mirror game 1 because I didn't see a Nahiri from him (I had mine for the win), and game 2 was a fun back-and-forth where I was able to tap out in response to his play on my end step to "bait" him into using four out of five lands on his turn to resolve Nahiri, which then allowed me to play Geist of Saint Traft on the next turn. I was able to kill his Nahiri with Geist, and eventually rode that same Geist to victory a number of turns later -- while also winning a counter-war to prevent him from trading a Snapcaster for my Geist, and using a Snapcaster of my own to kill his Geist. (Heck of a lot more fun than the Eggs match I played the previous round. -_-)
I think Timely Reinforcements is strictly better with Nahiri.
That being said I've just started playing Blessed Alliance in a non-nahiri variant and love it. Super versatile.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I think it is more for the extra lifegain plus the Nahiri synergy like you mention.
Not sure I like loading on 4 CMC PWs. Mostly for the mana curve considerations. Also if you wanted a PW that had more "impact on the board" I would probably prefer Elspeth KE or Gideon Ally since they can get blockers set up. Ajani is just too similar to Nahiri in role/function.
That is why I have like my singleton Jace VP. It is a play you can set up on turns 2/3 in between the occasional tap lands or holding up a 1 CMC spell, then it almost always flips on the first activation at which point you drop Nahiri and they have to struggle uphill just to break even.
Other than that I am definitely going to pick up/try a Kher Keep. 0/1 Kobolds are just funny. (the token is called "Kobolds of Kher Keep" plural? lulz)
Edit: Here is my current decklist:
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Vendillion Clique
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Planeswalkers 3
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Spells 27
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
2 Lightning Helix
3 Ancestral Visions
2 Sleight of Hand
2 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
2 Remand
1 Cryptic Command
1 Anger of the Gods
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Wandering Fumerole
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Arid Mesa
1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Celestial Purge
2 Negate
1 Detention Sphere
1 Wear
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Rest in Peace
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Lost a heart breaking game 3 in round 9 to miss 8-1
Jund 2-0 W
Scapeshift 0-2 L
Ad Naeseum 2-1 W
Bushwhacker Zoo 2-1 W
Jund 2-0 W
Jund 2-0 W
U/W hexproof 2-0 W
Jund 2-0 W
Storm 1-2 L
Wish me luck tomorrow!
Best of luck tomorrow. Congrats on a day 2 performance thus far.
Mostly I am impressed that you went 8-0 in games against Jund. I mean that matchup is still close even with AV.
A loss against storm is regrettable, but variance is a thing.
@chaos021
At first I thought it might be some Zur the Enchanter type deck, but without black it is most likely some Geist + Invisible Stalker deck that maybe plays a little slower than the GW version. Dunno that is my guess at the moment. Slippery Bogle is still blue, and white has the really important enchantments with Daybreak Coronet and Ethereal Armor, just add in some evasion + card advantage enchantments from blue and maybe that is a thing.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I see you have no Crumble to Dust (or Spreading Seas) against Tron. How do you sideboard for that match? And how do you find the match-up without ways to disrupt their mana base?
Mostly I concede that it is a bad matchup. Even with 2-3 cards in the SB for you are still an underdog.
From my SB I would be bringing in Mindcensor, Clique, Geist, Negate, and maybe the D-sphere depending on what read I have. I'd side out some bolts + paths (leave some in in case of Wurm Coil) + helix + anger.
I just lean on my permission spells plus getting an early threat to clock them in order to finish the game as quick as possible.
For me it was a matter of role assessment. Not to mention I believe those slots are better served with cards that see more play in other matchups.
Basically I feel I am getting net value by having more versatile SB slots for other matchups which might raise my win percentage up to %60+ rather than raise the tron matchup to near even post board (which still means you are unlikely to win the match since they are ahead game 1).
If tron rises up to the presence it had 3ish months ago I might change my tune.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)That makes a lot of sense. It's the approach I'm taking as well, though just for FNM-ish levels for now, and I don't have enough reps against Tron yet to really feel like I know what approach I want to take. And when I see that other, better players (Jim Davis, etc.) have 2 Crumble to Dust (and often 2 Spreading Seas as well) in the sideboard, it makes me wonder if I'm just wrong. Interesting to see you're taking the same approach.
I mean if Tron is decently represented in your local area where you play then I definitely recommend having some sideboard technology against them. However I tend to build my sideboards pretty 'generic' because I play at a couple different stores, not to mention online or the occasional tournament within driving distance.
The pros and numerous other players with Crumble or Spreading Seas aren't wrong, but holding up 2-3 slots for a matchup I might play once or twice in a series of rounds AND those cards have to be in my hand at the right time AND they can't have natural tron on the play (t3 karn = you lose) AND...etc, etc.
I'd personally rather just use those slots for maybe another negate, lifegain spell, sweeper, etc; which in conjunction with my other sideboard cards means I have a lot of game to bring in against a bunch of matchups.
Granted this is all because I don't see Tron or Valakut type decks as much as I used to.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)11-4 (no byes)
Day Two
R10 Jund 2-0 W
R11 Nacatyl Burn 2-0 W
R12 Infect 2-1 W (T. Saito)
R13 Infect 0-2 L
R14 Jund Delirium 2-0 W
R15 Boggles 0-2 L
I avoided bad match ups for the most part only Scapeshift and Ad Naseum are unfavorable.
I prepared to beat Jund and went a whooping 12-0 in games against them.
I'm a little tired to most my list but my maindeck spells mirrored Jim Davis but I don't play Timely in the maindeck.
Sideboard
2 Negate
2 Rest in Peace
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Stony Silence
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Izzet Statiscaster
1 Wear/Tear
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Anger of the Gods
Any questions feel free to ask.
Money finish and 2 pro points.
The deck felt fantastic!
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Congrats on a solid finish.
You dodged some bad matchups, but to be honest I feel like going 12-0 against Jund is a testament to your play skill. That matchup can be grindy, even if we might be slightly favored with AV.
I feel like you would have had some issues if you ran into Bant Eldrazi at any point in the tournament, which was better represented on day 2 than jeskai. (according to http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpgua16/day-2-metagame-breakdown-featuring-mklthd-2016-08-27)
Can't say I condone zero 4 CMC sweepers (Wrath or Verdict), but results don't lie.
Did any cards in the main deck or sideboard stand out as particularly good or bad? I don't mean cards like Crumble, which obviously isn't good when you never play Tron style decks. But more in a general sense. Like was the singleton Geist worth the spot?
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)How did the RIPs perform? Against what did you bring them in, and do you take Emrakul or Snapcasters out in some of those MUs?
No top 8 appearances, 1 top 32, and 2-3 top 64 (MTGSalvations own @TappingStones is one of these).
Even with Nahiri + AV it looks like jeskai is still lacking the power to keep up with jund, but I guess that is to be expected.
Metagame is full of Suicide Zoo, Burn, Infect, Affinity, and Jund. Bant Eldrazi and Dredge are decently represented, which only makes the environment more hostile for us. Runner ups are probably Ad Nauseum and Merfolk.
GP Lille (~1900 players) - http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gplil16/9th-64th-decklists-2016-08-28
GP Indy (~2000 players) - http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpind16/9-32-decklists-2016-08-28
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpind16/9-32-decklists-2016-08-28
GP Guangzhou (~1000 players) - http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpgua16/9th-32nd-decklists-2016-08-28
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpgua16/33rd-64th-decklists-2016-08-28
Looks like we will have to keep adapting in order to keep up. If not then I feel out tier 1 status is not long for this world.
Maybe a move towards a more controlling version that de-emphasizes the Nahiri combo? I saw plenty of UW lists rocking multiple Cryptics + 4 Colonnades.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)In fact, i actually believe that is Nahiri itself the card that keeps us in Tier 1 status.
Modern is not a nice home for those who want to interact...