So, something went wrong and I couldn't post my report. As I said earlier, I went 6-2 losing to Junk and Dredge and winning against 2 UWR Harbingers, 1 Project Melira (CoCo), 1 Eldrazi and Taxes and 1 Infect (I was awared Round 1 bye via Planeswalker Points)
About my deck - I won't be changing any maindeck cards except of maybe 2nd Steam Vents (an old habit from Cryptic Command world). Regarding sideboard, I would definitely squeeze at least 2 Relics/Nihil Spellbombs - I know this may round a little result-oriented basing on one of my losses was against Dredge, but I think Dredge is real - there were 2 copies in the Top8 of japanese WMCQ, dredge also took down one in the New Zealand, so we need to prepare against it. I think mine cuts will be Ancestral and something else - we are already grinding extremely well thanks to Lingering Souls.
I feel that black splash is really worth it - we are basically giving up our burn matchup and making ourselves more vurnerable to Fulminator Mages (which saddens me even more than Burn MU) for an exquisite grinding ability and additional power against Infect, Affinity (thanks to souls) and combo decks (thanks to Slaughter Games).
Cheers,
TFSS
Nice, I remember playing lingering souls in UWR back in the day along with mystical teachings haha. Glad to see it's still being played.
Logic Knot is much more live late game than Leak. Even against Tron or other ramp, where Leak would be totally dead. Knot also doesn't get Spell Snared.
My local meta is loaded with UWR Nahiri, and I've seen Kiki Chord jamming her also. Bribery as a one or two-of is getting popular outside of the mirror in Jeskai Kiki and Grixis lists. EOT Clique to fight over into Bribery is very awkward to play through.
Twisted Image is in a good spot with plenty of targets in decks seeing play: BoP, Heirarch, wall of roots/omens, ornithopter, signal pest, spellskite. Even without zero-power targets, it just cycles at instant speed. With targets, it's cantripping removal for single blue.
Regarding the last few lists posted here, I think it *might* be a mistake to not be playing Timely Reinforcements in the MB. The card is just so good in this deck. We can hit both modes of the card so easily since we run only 4-5 cast-able creatures, and even if we aren't getting our life total assaulted, we can usually get our life just under our opponents with fetches and shocks ( I mean, say you're opponent is at 19 from a fetch, and you decide to go fetch into shock to get to 17, that would mean you'd still be going up to 23 with Timely), so all around it's just great here.
I run 2 MB, and I can't honestly say that I haven't loved them.
Not to mention, the look on a Zoo or Burn player's face when they see both Helix and Timely in Game 1 is just priceless..
Regarding the last few lists posted here, I think it *might* be a mistake to not be playing Timely Reinforcements in the MB. The card is just so good in this deck. We can hit both modes of the card so easily since we run only 4-5 cast-able creatures, and even if we aren't getting our life total assaulted, we can usually get our life just under our opponents with fetches and shocks ( I mean, say you're opponent is at 19 from a fetch, and you decide to go fetch into shock to get to 17, that would mean you'd still be going up to 23 with Timely), so all around it's just great here.
I run 2 MB, and I can't honestly say that I haven't loved them.
Not to mention, the look on a Zoo or Burn player's face when they see both Helix and Timely in Game 1 is just priceless..
What does everyone think the optimal number of sweepers (Anger of the Gods / Supreme Verdict / Wrath of God) and Timely Reinforcements is? (Say for an unknown meta, since obviously things can be tweaked for local metas...) I like the idea of Timely Reinforcements, but I also feel like just killing all of the things with Anger of the Gods just solves the problem a bit more directly, and Lightning Helix still provides some life gain. Or am I just making a mistake to not main deck Timely Reinforcements even if I'm not expecting to face a lot of Zoo/Burn/etc.?
Regarding the last few lists posted here, I think it *might* be a mistake to not be playing Timely Reinforcements in the MB. The card is just so good in this deck. We can hit both modes of the card so easily since we run only 4-5 cast-able creatures, and even if we aren't getting our life total assaulted, we can usually get our life just under our opponents with fetches and shocks ( I mean, say you're opponent is at 19 from a fetch, and you decide to go fetch into shock to get to 17, that would mean you'd still be going up to 23 with Timely), so all around it's just great here.
I run 2 MB, and I can't honestly say that I haven't loved them.
Not to mention, the look on a Zoo or Burn player's face when they see both Helix and Timely in Game 1 is just priceless..
What does everyone think the optimal number of sweepers (Anger of the Gods / Supreme Verdict / Wrath of God) and Timely Reinforcements is? (Say for an unknown meta, since obviously things can be tweaked for local metas...) I like the idea of Timely Reinforcements, but I also feel like just killing all of the things with Anger of the Gods just solves the problem a bit more directly, and Lightning Helix still provides some life gain. Or am I just making a mistake to not main deck Timely Reinforcements even if I'm not expecting to face a lot of Zoo/Burn/etc.?
It will change all the time. There is no magic number. Depends on meta and what you expect to face.
What does everyone think the optimal number of sweepers (Anger of the Gods / Supreme Verdict / Wrath of God) and Timely Reinforcements is? (Say for an unknown meta, since obviously things can be tweaked for local metas...) I like the idea of Timely Reinforcements, but I also feel like just killing all of the things with Anger of the Gods just solves the problem a bit more directly, and Lightning Helix still provides some life gain. Or am I just making a mistake to not main deck Timely Reinforcements even if I'm not expecting to face a lot of Zoo/Burn/etc.?
As TS says, it depends on metagame shifts. Right now, I think 3 sweepers and 1-2 timely in the 75 is where you want to be. I run 1 Timely in the main, and another one in the sb. Even if the lifegain isn't really relevant in the matchup, the soldiers do a decent job protecting Nahiri, specially against a single creature that you can remove inmediately after playing timely. If it is bad for the matchup, you can always loot it.
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Modern:WU WU Control | WBG Abzan Company Frontier:UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
I'm running the Modern Nexus list right now, and I'm really missing someway to interact with the graveyard. My local meta has kiki chord and the newish dredge list that's been running around with narcomeba and prized amalgam. I feel like cage and RIP are bad choices since they hose us so much as well. Relic feels underwhelming, but maybe I just have to suck it up and use it. Leyline of the Void is not a reasonable choice of course.
Has anyone else been looking into gy hate?
On another note, I feel like I've been having trouble against burn, even with 2 helixes and a timely main, with another timely in the board. I feel like if I mulligan aggressively to helixes and timelys, I end up with hands with too few lands, and if I just keep solid 7s, I don't find the bullets that I need to stay alive against them. All of the direct damage burn has also makes it really hard to keep nahiri alive.
I'm running the Modern Nexus list right now, and I'm really missing someway to interact with the graveyard. My local meta has kiki chord and the newish dredge list that's been running around with narcomeba and prized amalgam. I feel like cage and RIP are bad choices since they hose us so much as well. Relic feels underwhelming, but maybe I just have to suck it up and use it. Leyline of the Void is not a reasonable choice of course.
Has anyone else been looking into gy hate?
On another note, I feel like I've been having trouble against burn, even with 2 helixes and a timely main, with another timely in the board. I feel like if I mulligan aggressively to helixes and timelys, I end up with hands with too few lands, and if I just keep solid 7s, I don't find the bullets that I need to stay alive against them. All of the direct damage burn has also makes it really hard to keep nahiri alive.
RIP is the best we have I think. Against burn, Leyline of sanctity? But we only have that much space in our side.
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We can't really run Rest in Peace, as it makes us unable to discard Emrakul. I have put Relic of Progenitus back in my sideboard again though, considering how many graveyard decks are popular right now; they're also great in the mirror.
I've also been wanting to run more Dispel over Negate as it is just so amazing in the mirror and against the chord decks. Tron would be the main reason to not switch, but it has been going down in the meta. Then again, considering all these jeskai and jund decks it would be a great moment for it to resurge again
We can't really run Rest in Peace, as it makes us unable to discard Emrakul. I have put Relic of Progenitus back in my sideboard again though, considering how many graveyard decks are popular right now; they're also great in the mirror.
I've also been wanting to run more Dispel over Negate as it is just so amazing in the mirror and against the chord decks. Tron would be the main reason to not switch, but it has been going down in the meta. Then again, considering all these jeskai and jund decks it would be a great moment for it to resurge again
That was why I mentioned vendilion clique, it will allow us to put emrakul back to our deck. And that's also why I'm running 2 vendilion clique in my main.
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You want to bet your wincon on having to poorly use a 3 mana 2-of in your deck?
Sometime if that's the line of play that allows you to win, why not?
rest in peace definitely hurts dredge more than it does to us IMO. RIP also almost kills jund with their Tarmogoyf, tasigur is going to cost 6 and so on. And for sure opponent would side in stuff to remove rip, which would have already hurt them more than enough for us gain enough of a upper hand to win, and that would also be a chance for us to pitch emrakul too. And we still have our colonnade to win too.
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Current Deck(s): TappedOut Would love to have more input to improve!
We can't really run Rest in Peace, as it makes us unable to discard Emrakul. I have put Relic of Progenitus back in my sideboard again though, considering how many graveyard decks are popular right now; they're also great in the mirror.
I've also been wanting to run more Dispel over Negate as it is just so amazing in the mirror and against the chord decks. Tron would be the main reason to not switch, but it has been going down in the meta. Then again, considering all these jeskai and jund decks it would be a great moment for it to resurge again
That was why I mentioned vendilion clique, it will allow us to put emrakul back to our deck. And that's also why I'm running 2 vendilion clique in my main.
You want to bet your wincon on having to poorly use a 3 mana 2-of in your deck?
Sometime if that's the line of play that allows you to win, why not?
rest in peace definitely hurts dredge more than it does to us IMO. RIP also almost kills jund with their Tarmogoyf, tasigur is going to cost 6 and so on. And for sure opponent would side in stuff to remove rip, which would have already hurt them more than enough for us gain enough of a upper hand to win, and that would also be a chance for us to pitch emrakul too. And we still have our colonnade to win too.
First of all, Jund is a positive match-up and I would argue RIP hurts us a lot more than it does them. Why would they board in cards to beat it? It does very little. They can just discard their Goyfs to Liliana. Meanwhile your snapcasters all became draft fodder and you better hope Emarkul doesn't get drawn.
You want to bet your wincon on having to poorly use a 3 mana 2-of in your deck?
Sometime if that's the line of play that allows you to win, why not?
rest in peace definitely hurts dredge more than it does to us IMO. RIP also almost kills jund with their Tarmogoyf, tasigur is going to cost 6 and so on. And for sure opponent would side in stuff to remove rip, which would have already hurt them more than enough for us gain enough of a upper hand to win, and that would also be a chance for us to pitch emrakul too. And we still have our colonnade to win too.
First of all, Jund is a positive match-up and I would argue RIP hurts us a lot more than it does them. Why would they board in cards to beat it? It does very little. They can just discard their Goyfs to Liliana. Meanwhile your snapcasters all became draft fodder and you better hope Emarkul doesn't get drawn.
I DO KNOW that's very poor use of Vendilion Clique, but the question is do you want to win? Or do you want to stick to not poorly using it and not create the chance of winning?
The board in cards to beat it was referring to decks like dredge, not jund.
You want to bet your wincon on having to poorly use a 3 mana 2-of in your deck?
Sometime if that's the line of play that allows you to win, why not?
rest in peace definitely hurts dredge more than it does to us IMO. RIP also almost kills jund with their Tarmogoyf, tasigur is going to cost 6 and so on. And for sure opponent would side in stuff to remove rip, which would have already hurt them more than enough for us gain enough of a upper hand to win, and that would also be a chance for us to pitch emrakul too. And we still have our colonnade to win too.
First of all, Jund is a positive match-up and I would argue RIP hurts us a lot more than it does them. Why would they board in cards to beat it? It does very little. They can just discard their Goyfs to Liliana. Meanwhile your snapcasters all became draft fodder and you better hope Emarkul doesn't get drawn.
I DO KNOW that's very poor use of Vendilion Clique, but the question is do you want to win? Or do you want to stick to not poorly using it and not create the chance of winning?
Sure, there are corner cases when we do something like this but it's not a strategy.
The board in cards to beat it was referring to decks like dredge, not jund.
You said "RIP also almost kills jund with their Tarmogoyf, tasigur is going to cost 6 and so on. And for sure opponent would side in stuff to remove rip, which would have already hurt them more than enough for us gain enough of a upper hand to win, and that would also be a chance for us to pitch emrakul too. And we still have our colonnade to win too."
Talking that long about boarding in RIP against Jund means what? You said RIP also almost kill jund... it does nothing of the sort. It makes their goyfs into 0/1 which is fine but Tasigur costing more isn't that big of an upside.
Not that you need anything else. Before the most recent unbanning Jeskai was a slight dog to Jund but the match-up had game. AV is a huge card against them and so is Nahiri. They've gone so far as to maindeck Dreadbore just to look out for Nahiri. When you add 7 cards that are very good and opponents add no good cards and have to add a card that makes their deck worse against the field that's a pretty huge victory!
Nice, I remember playing lingering souls in UWR back in the day along with mystical teachings haha. Glad to see it's still being played.
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
1 Electrolyze
4 Path to Exile
3 Remand
1 Mana Leak
1 Logic Knot
3 Spell Snare
3 Ancestral Vision
3 Celestial Colonnade
1 Desolate Lighthouse
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Negate
1 Dispel
1 Wear // Tear
1 Celestial Purge
1 Vendilion Clique
Logic Knot is much more live late game than Leak. Even against Tron or other ramp, where Leak would be totally dead. Knot also doesn't get Spell Snared.
My local meta is loaded with UWR Nahiri, and I've seen Kiki Chord jamming her also. Bribery as a one or two-of is getting popular outside of the mirror in Jeskai Kiki and Grixis lists. EOT Clique to fight over into Bribery is very awkward to play through.
Twisted Image is in a good spot with plenty of targets in decks seeing play: BoP, Heirarch, wall of roots/omens, ornithopter, signal pest, spellskite. Even without zero-power targets, it just cycles at instant speed. With targets, it's cantripping removal for single blue.
I run 2 MB, and I can't honestly say that I haven't loved them.
Not to mention, the look on a Zoo or Burn player's face when they see both Helix and Timely in Game 1 is just priceless..
What does everyone think the optimal number of sweepers (Anger of the Gods / Supreme Verdict / Wrath of God) and Timely Reinforcements is? (Say for an unknown meta, since obviously things can be tweaked for local metas...) I like the idea of Timely Reinforcements, but I also feel like just killing all of the things with Anger of the Gods just solves the problem a bit more directly, and Lightning Helix still provides some life gain. Or am I just making a mistake to not main deck Timely Reinforcements even if I'm not expecting to face a lot of Zoo/Burn/etc.?
It will change all the time. There is no magic number. Depends on meta and what you expect to face.
As TS says, it depends on metagame shifts. Right now, I think 3 sweepers and 1-2 timely in the 75 is where you want to be. I run 1 Timely in the main, and another one in the sb. Even if the lifegain isn't really relevant in the matchup, the soldiers do a decent job protecting Nahiri, specially against a single creature that you can remove inmediately after playing timely. If it is bad for the matchup, you can always loot it.
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Has anyone else been looking into gy hate?
On another note, I feel like I've been having trouble against burn, even with 2 helixes and a timely main, with another timely in the board. I feel like if I mulligan aggressively to helixes and timelys, I end up with hands with too few lands, and if I just keep solid 7s, I don't find the bullets that I need to stay alive against them. All of the direct damage burn has also makes it really hard to keep nahiri alive.
RIP is the best we have I think. Against burn, Leyline of sanctity? But we only have that much space in our side.
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
I've also been wanting to run more Dispel over Negate as it is just so amazing in the mirror and against the chord decks. Tron would be the main reason to not switch, but it has been going down in the meta. Then again, considering all these jeskai and jund decks it would be a great moment for it to resurge again
That was why I mentioned vendilion clique, it will allow us to put emrakul back to our deck. And that's also why I'm running 2 vendilion clique in my main.
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
Sometime if that's the line of play that allows you to win, why not?
rest in peace definitely hurts dredge more than it does to us IMO. RIP also almost kills jund with their Tarmogoyf, tasigur is going to cost 6 and so on. And for sure opponent would side in stuff to remove rip, which would have already hurt them more than enough for us gain enough of a upper hand to win, and that would also be a chance for us to pitch emrakul too. And we still have our colonnade to win too.
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
That's a VERY poor use of Clique.
First of all, Jund is a positive match-up and I would argue RIP hurts us a lot more than it does them. Why would they board in cards to beat it? It does very little. They can just discard their Goyfs to Liliana. Meanwhile your snapcasters all became draft fodder and you better hope Emarkul doesn't get drawn.
I DO KNOW that's very poor use of Vendilion Clique, but the question is do you want to win? Or do you want to stick to not poorly using it and not create the chance of winning?
The board in cards to beat it was referring to decks like dredge, not jund.
How are we positive against jund other than AV?
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
Sure, there are corner cases when we do something like this but it's not a strategy.
You said "RIP also almost kills jund with their Tarmogoyf, tasigur is going to cost 6 and so on. And for sure opponent would side in stuff to remove rip, which would have already hurt them more than enough for us gain enough of a upper hand to win, and that would also be a chance for us to pitch emrakul too. And we still have our colonnade to win too."
Talking that long about boarding in RIP against Jund means what? You said RIP also almost kill jund... it does nothing of the sort. It makes their goyfs into 0/1 which is fine but Tasigur costing more isn't that big of an upside.
Not that you need anything else. Before the most recent unbanning Jeskai was a slight dog to Jund but the match-up had game. AV is a huge card against them and so is Nahiri. They've gone so far as to maindeck Dreadbore just to look out for Nahiri. When you add 7 cards that are very good and opponents add no good cards and have to add a card that makes their deck worse against the field that's a pretty huge victory!
Unrelated, what do you guys think about the 24 land, Cryptic/Verdict lists? I don't know how I feel about AV in the main... seems slow.