I like how you defend your own ideas into oblivion, while you call people playing cryptics as pet card users, even though cc puts up results.
"Not to mention the most obvious fault in your logic.
If you ever blink the Sower when it comes back I take the Displacer for good and keep blinking your big attacker until I can exile it with Nahiri (-2 exile a tapped creature).I would argue Displacer is one of the worst cards in the format against Sower. "
The most obvious fault in my logic is sadly yours, since they will obviously just blink their own creature, leaving you with a 2:2 flyer for 4 mana. Furthemore they can just play a displacer after you steal their creature and no bolt/helix will stop them from flickering their thread.
Arguing with a resolved nahiri doesn't make sense ether. You don't want to play a cmc4 card that is only rly good when you allready have a nahiri in play or need to wait for one, we don't need "win more cards".
Cody I'm sure you know how narrow sower is, since your an old time fairy player.
Sower is a cmc4 card that's narrow and can't be reused with snapcaster. That's not where we want to be.
Let's just use the most succesfull eldrazi list of the modern open as an example: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=107557
I would argue that the eldrazi player would rather cut path+ee then removing displacers. While his SB options lack the typical counter suit, I wouldn't imagine the other lists (e.g. place 12+13) to cut a single displacer against us ether.
I know this is a side comment, but I would prefer if we could keep discusing magic, since we are all trying to improve a deck we enjoy playing, comments as
You couldn't be more wrong. And don't sound like you've ever played against Jeskai.
won't prove that your argument is superior, it's just unmannered.
Edit: We should maybe not only discuss bants mainboard choices but their sb as well, since cards like 4x chalice or 3x Unified Will instead of negates/stubborn denial are pretty scary.
I like how the guy who called Sower "terrible bad" is trying to talk about unmannered...but I digress.
Sower is one of the best things you can be doing against Eldrazi and they have close to no answers for it.
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While sower is questionable a good meta call, I think its a bit narrow in many regards, and I'd rather play verdicts to overlap for bant eldrazi.
That being said, sower is amazing when it is good.
Most eldrazi players are probably not leaving in paths either (displacers in some number, depending on their sideboard, but paths almost have to be the first things out).
Most of their counterspells are stubborn denials/negates anyways, so they likely won't be prepared to answer it.
On top of that, often times, two turns with a sower + smasher is enough to kill (14 damage, plus any self-land damage from them, plus a snapcaster, or a bolt, or a clique, or a colonnade, etc, is pretty much their entire life total).
Honestly, if I'm playing 1-2 sowers, and they side paths or w/e back in for them game 3, thats still fairly in my favor.
Considering path has so few targets, its just fairly unlikely it will ever match up well to your sower.
I honestly think verdicts are the best possible sideboard card against them, simply because they aren't too narrow, and are fairly resistant to counterplay.
They can't be countered, and if they only play a couple of creatures at a time, they won't be able to sufficiently pressure us through spot removal.
I'm a bit confused as to why Sower is a good card against Eldrazi? Surely the Eldrazi player can target the Smasher or TKS (or whatever has been stolen) with Eldrazi displacer and they get there creature back? Further, if I was an Eldrazi player and saw this card come in i'd consider leaving in a path or two as they are also good targets for clique and colonnade..
Secondly you are paying 4 cmc for a Sower - you know what else you get for 4 cmc - an honest to goodness board wipe that is absolutely back breaking for the Eldrazi player.
Interesting to see that both decks are running a higher land count (24-25) and no Ancestral Vision. Hernandez' four Geist of Saint Traft in the main is also quite interesting.
I'm a big fan of the geist deck. It looks very explosive which is good for this archetype. Has anyone tried spell queller? This deck looks like it can reasonably protect it plus it's a 2/3 body with evasion.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
I'm a bit confused as to why Sower is a good card against Eldrazi? Surely the Eldrazi player can target the Smasher or TKS (or whatever has been stolen) with Eldrazi displacer and they get there creature back? Further, if I was an Eldrazi player and saw this card come in i'd consider leaving in a path or two as they are also good targets for clique and colonnade..
Secondly you are paying 4 cmc for a Sower - you know what else you get for 4 cmc - an honest to goodness board wipe that is absolutely back breaking for the Eldrazi player.
The wraths are not back-breaking. You are usually getting a big creature and a mana dork, it's fine but not much better than 4 mana to kill one important creature...not great. Sower not only removes their creature but gives you two, turning the entire game around THAT is back-breaking. And has already been explained, Displacer dies to every card in the deck and you have to have to draw one and have it enter the battle field AFTER the sower. But you are going to be dead in just a turn or two so not sure why you find that viable. There aren't 10 Displacers in the deck. I can take your displacer and then start blinking your own creature. Also, PTE is one of the first cards that come out, Eldrazi wants to bring in counters they have to take something out.
Spell Queller is too slow for modern without acceleration, and you need more creatures to overload their removal. It's for a Bant coco shell, not Jeskai Control.
As for Geist, I've been thinking about moving my two sideboarded Geists mainboard to move Clique and Anger to the side instead. Makes for a more proactive game 1 which is always good
Spell Queller is too slow for modern without acceleration, and you need more creatures to overload their removal. It's for a Bant coco shell, not Jeskai Control.
As for Geist, I've been thinking about moving my two sideboarded Geists mainboard to move Clique and Anger to the side instead. Makes for a more proactive game 1 which is always good
NEVER move the Anger to the side. It is just way too relevant in the current meta-game.
Well, in the current meta game it is indeed an absolute mistake to relegate our most relevant mass removal to the sideboard. The next metagame update will probably have aggro-only decks in Tier 1: Affinity, Zoo, Death Shadow Zoo, Merfolk, Burn, Dredge and bant eldrazi. With the exception of the latter (although it still have good targets) Anger is one of our most valuable card against the field.
Cutting the most relevant card for a card which might give you some reach but will do nothing against a flooded board by T3 is a mistake.
It's a singleton mainboard, you are greatly overestimating what one card does against those matchups. Also Jesus Christ I made an offhand comment of something I might be thinking about trying, learn to set the tone of your post
It's a singleton mainboard, you are greatly overestimating what one card does against those matchups. Also Jesus Christ I made an offhand comment of something I might be thinking about trying, learn to set the tone of your post
I don't have an offensive tone and sorry if it came across as offensive. That was not the intention.
I am just arguing on why this would not be a viable choice. Plus I see a lot of people cutting mainboard sweepers still in this meta game and I really can't see the reason. It is a singelton because you can't overload on it (might be too many dead draws on another MU) but that is why you often see (or at least used to see or in my opinion you should see) 1 Anger main and 1 Anger side.
So do we still need to be running Crumble anymore? While it is a terrible matchup for us and Crumble is the best card we can ever see against Tron I feel like with how little it sees play now we really don't need 2 of em in the SB.
I was thinking about instead of running a combo of Crumble/Seas like people were doing months ago to straight up swapping my two Crumbles for two Spreading Seas. Spreading Seas and Stony Silence(which will just never leave the 75 in some number) won't leave us with our pants completely down if we run into Tron.
But Spreading Seas also helps us a ton against man-lands, cavern, and Eldrazi Temple(admittedly this one is the loosest of the targets).
Maybe we should focus those slots for other matchups, but regardless I don't think we need two Crumbles anymore.
EDIT: I forgot to write about Valakut decks in this too but I feel like the same thing applies. While there a good amount of Valakut decks running around I feel like every good Titanshift/Valakut player always keeps the Valakut close to their heart post-board cause they know a Crumble is a borderline game ending blow.
It might just be anecdotal but I have had dead Crumbles in hand multiple times against Shift just cause the opp was waiting to hit that critical mass and just instantly killing me off triggers.
Six rounds. Didnt go as well as I would have liked. Went 3-3 losing to Burn twice and once to Affinity.
Wins were against Burn x1, Infect x1, and Bant Eldrazi. (I can updated w/ sideboard later)
To summarize:
Round 1: Affinity:
Lost in 3 as two misplays may have changed the outcome of games 1 and 3. Didnt draw stony silence in either of the sideboard games...
Round 2: Bant Eldrazi
Win; Real close games. Got it in 3. I think this is a bad matchup and I got lucky
Round 3: Burn; no Wild Nacatl (sp?)
Lost in 3. but the games were very close. I wish I hadnt dropped my third Lightning Helix.
Round 4: Burn; no Wild Nac
Win in 3. Down to two life in two of the games but was able to hold w/ counter-magic and win (one of the games) with burn snap burn (no Nahiri drawn) which is always fun!
Round 5: Burn (again); with Wild Nac
Crushed in 2: Super fast hands
Round 6: Infect; won in 3
Super tight games and the biggest winner was my Lingering souls. My opponent just closed his eyes when he saw this played the first time. He was equally disgruntled when I crackling doomed him in game 3!
Ultimate take-aways:
Ancestral Vision did some good work. Even against burn and affinity.
I would have traded any one of my MB cards for another lightning helix (or two)
The finals was a Jeskai control deck (no nahiri but w/ spell quellars) vs affinity. Affinity won it all.
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Legacy: Burn (18-6-1 over multiple events)
Eldrazi and Taxes (under construction)
Modern: Eldrazi Tron (All sanctioned events; Record: 38-9-2 over ~12 Wed/Fri Night Modern events: 78% match win rate; last updated 9.13.17)
Jeskai Harbinger
Naya Burn (20-6-2 over multiple 1K and FNM events; retired)
Building: Esper control and a mill deck for fun and some variety.
I'm a bit confused as to why Sower is a good card against Eldrazi? Surely the Eldrazi player can target the Smasher or TKS (or whatever has been stolen) with Eldrazi displacer and they get there creature back? Further, if I was an Eldrazi player and saw this card come in i'd consider leaving in a path or two as they are also good targets for clique and colonnade..
Secondly you are paying 4 cmc for a Sower - you know what else you get for 4 cmc - an honest to goodness board wipe that is absolutely back breaking for the Eldrazi player.
The wraths are not back-breaking. You are usually getting a big creature and a mana dork, it's fine but not much better than 4 mana to kill one important creature...not great. Sower not only removes their creature but gives you two, turning the entire game around THAT is back-breaking. And has already been explained, Displacer dies to every card in the deck and you have to have to draw one and have it enter the battle field AFTER the sower. But you are going to be dead in just a turn or two so not sure why you find that viable. There aren't 10 Displacers in the deck. I can take your displacer and then start blinking your own creature. Also, PTE is one of the first cards that come out, Eldrazi wants to bring in counters they have to take something out.
Wraths are not back breaking - I think you are going to have to admit that you are on your own with this assessment. Further, the versatility of 4 cmc sweepers means that you arent burning a slot in your incredibly precious sb. However, it could be that the scenario that you describe plays out - if it does surely the Eldrazi player brings in some number of paths (and all displacers if they took any out - I know that I dont) for game 3. I just see 4 cmc sweepers being far more clean then sower..
In regards to displacer - there are several other targets for your bolts - it is def quite reasonable that Displacer will be on the board to deal with Sower. Finally - how would you use a displacer to blink the eldrazi players creatures? With your 1-of qhost quarter - that you somehow haven't used previously to hit a cavern or temple - seems unlikely..
Here's my current decklist: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/08-09-16-AUk-uwr-nahiri/
I played in a modern tournament yesterday, went 3-1 but had a Dispel in place of the Elspeth which I just picked up today. I wanted to play Tamiyo mainboard since I saw a Nahiri deck place 9th at a GP with it and I figured that was as good as making top 8 but having bad tiebreakers, but when I actually started playing I ended up sideboarding it out most of the time. I think it would be better in the sideboard and play a Vendilion Clique mainboard in its place. Also do I really need an Arid Mesa? I don't have one yet but I originally had one in the decklist, but the Glacial Fortress has been fine. I think I will still buy one just to have the option.
The main problem with Jeskai right now is that strong teams and players aren't playing the deck, that's it.
I'm curious does anyone else here actually prep and participate in GPs? GP lists and FNM lists are much different. If people could agree to try and play one list and do it with other strong players at a particular GP then we could learn more. But everyone playing different lists makes it almost impossible to learn anything.
I thought my last list would be particularly useful as it was 11-4 at GP level competition with no byes. But I haven't heard of anyone else even so much as trying the list.
If people are actually care about the archtpe itself being tier one then it's best to work together to make it work. Now I don't mind helping make a tight list for a particular GP meta either, if you are stateside you are likely to see lots of Bant Eldrazi and Jund, that list isn't going to be hard to make. Those match-ups can be crushed, if that's what you want to do. I just face so little Eldrazi in Asia it's not as worth it for me to put many cards toward that match-up.
I'm pretty unable to take the deck to a GP because Australia is so isolated. I would definitely be down for trying one shared mainboard and a mostly shared sideboard. It seems far more effective when taking notes on what works and what doesn't in certain matchups.
I try to go to larger events but because of my education I don't always have time. I will be going to GP Rotterdam in November at least but Modern is only a side event there
Sharing a mainboard seems like a strong idea I'm definitely down for trying, especially since tappingstones, Jex and I tend to be on the same line of thought from what I've seen from this thread
hi, I've been looking a lot for cards to put in against valakut titan in a jeskai deck, however cards like cumple to dust seem to slow in my opinion (because they can turn 3 me and easy turn 4 on the play). looking
for 1-2 cards in the sideboard that can shut them down or maybe slow them.
I don't actually play the deck, but I would assume you could try to attack the lands with something like blood moon (but you will have to fetch properly or you will be hurt by it yourself)
Or just play Leyline of Sanctity, which will protect you and your plainswalkers from Valakut (and you can path or counter the titans)
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I like how the guy who called Sower "terrible bad" is trying to talk about unmannered...but I digress.
Sower is one of the best things you can be doing against Eldrazi and they have close to no answers for it.
That being said, sower is amazing when it is good.
Most eldrazi players are probably not leaving in paths either (displacers in some number, depending on their sideboard, but paths almost have to be the first things out).
Most of their counterspells are stubborn denials/negates anyways, so they likely won't be prepared to answer it.
On top of that, often times, two turns with a sower + smasher is enough to kill (14 damage, plus any self-land damage from them, plus a snapcaster, or a bolt, or a clique, or a colonnade, etc, is pretty much their entire life total).
Honestly, if I'm playing 1-2 sowers, and they side paths or w/e back in for them game 3, thats still fairly in my favor.
Considering path has so few targets, its just fairly unlikely it will ever match up well to your sower.
I honestly think verdicts are the best possible sideboard card against them, simply because they aren't too narrow, and are fairly resistant to counterplay.
They can't be countered, and if they only play a couple of creatures at a time, they won't be able to sufficiently pressure us through spot removal.
Secondly you are paying 4 cmc for a Sower - you know what else you get for 4 cmc - an honest to goodness board wipe that is absolutely back breaking for the Eldrazi player.
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
I'm a big fan of the geist deck. It looks very explosive which is good for this archetype. Has anyone tried spell queller? This deck looks like it can reasonably protect it plus it's a 2/3 body with evasion.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
The wraths are not back-breaking. You are usually getting a big creature and a mana dork, it's fine but not much better than 4 mana to kill one important creature...not great. Sower not only removes their creature but gives you two, turning the entire game around THAT is back-breaking. And has already been explained, Displacer dies to every card in the deck and you have to have to draw one and have it enter the battle field AFTER the sower. But you are going to be dead in just a turn or two so not sure why you find that viable. There aren't 10 Displacers in the deck. I can take your displacer and then start blinking your own creature. Also, PTE is one of the first cards that come out, Eldrazi wants to bring in counters they have to take something out.
As for Geist, I've been thinking about moving my two sideboarded Geists mainboard to move Clique and Anger to the side instead. Makes for a more proactive game 1 which is always good
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Cutting the most relevant card for a card which might give you some reach but will do nothing against a flooded board by T3 is a mistake.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I am just arguing on why this would not be a viable choice. Plus I see a lot of people cutting mainboard sweepers still in this meta game and I really can't see the reason. It is a singelton because you can't overload on it (might be too many dead draws on another MU) but that is why you often see (or at least used to see or in my opinion you should see) 1 Anger main and 1 Anger side.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I was thinking about instead of running a combo of Crumble/Seas like people were doing months ago to straight up swapping my two Crumbles for two Spreading Seas. Spreading Seas and Stony Silence(which will just never leave the 75 in some number) won't leave us with our pants completely down if we run into Tron.
But Spreading Seas also helps us a ton against man-lands, cavern, and Eldrazi Temple(admittedly this one is the loosest of the targets).
Maybe we should focus those slots for other matchups, but regardless I don't think we need two Crumbles anymore.
EDIT: I forgot to write about Valakut decks in this too but I feel like the same thing applies. While there a good amount of Valakut decks running around I feel like every good Titanshift/Valakut player always keeps the Valakut close to their heart post-board cause they know a Crumble is a borderline game ending blow.
It might just be anecdotal but I have had dead Crumbles in hand multiple times against Shift just cause the opp was waiting to hit that critical mass and just instantly killing me off triggers.
3x Celestial Colonnade
3x Flooded Strand
3x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
2x Polluted Delta
2x Sacred Foundry
3x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
2x Watery Grave
1x Cryptic Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
2x Mana Leak
4x Path to Exile
2x Remand
2x Spell Snare
Sorcery(9)
1x Anger of the Gods
2x Lingering Souls
4x Serum Visions
1x Supreme Verdict
3x Ancestral Vision
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Snapcaster Mage
Planeswalker(4)
4x Nahiri, the Harbinger
Six rounds. Didnt go as well as I would have liked. Went 3-3 losing to Burn twice and once to Affinity.
Wins were against Burn x1, Infect x1, and Bant Eldrazi. (I can updated w/ sideboard later)
To summarize:
Round 1: Affinity:
Lost in 3 as two misplays may have changed the outcome of games 1 and 3. Didnt draw stony silence in either of the sideboard games...
Round 2: Bant Eldrazi
Win; Real close games. Got it in 3. I think this is a bad matchup and I got lucky
Round 3: Burn; no Wild Nacatl (sp?)
Lost in 3. but the games were very close. I wish I hadnt dropped my third Lightning Helix.
Round 4: Burn; no Wild Nac
Win in 3. Down to two life in two of the games but was able to hold w/ counter-magic and win (one of the games) with burn snap burn (no Nahiri drawn) which is always fun!
Round 5: Burn (again); with Wild Nac
Crushed in 2: Super fast hands
Round 6: Infect; won in 3
Super tight games and the biggest winner was my Lingering souls. My opponent just closed his eyes when he saw this played the first time. He was equally disgruntled when I crackling doomed him in game 3!
Ultimate take-aways:
Ancestral Vision did some good work. Even against burn and affinity.
I would have traded any one of my MB cards for another lightning helix (or two)
The finals was a Jeskai control deck (no nahiri but w/ spell quellars) vs affinity. Affinity won it all.
Eldrazi and Taxes (under construction)
Modern: Eldrazi Tron (All sanctioned events; Record: 38-9-2 over ~12 Wed/Fri Night Modern events: 78% match win rate; last updated 9.13.17)
Jeskai Harbinger
Naya Burn (20-6-2 over multiple 1K and FNM events; retired)
Building: Esper control and a mill deck for fun and some variety.
Wraths are not back breaking - I think you are going to have to admit that you are on your own with this assessment. Further, the versatility of 4 cmc sweepers means that you arent burning a slot in your incredibly precious sb. However, it could be that the scenario that you describe plays out - if it does surely the Eldrazi player brings in some number of paths (and all displacers if they took any out - I know that I dont) for game 3. I just see 4 cmc sweepers being far more clean then sower..
In regards to displacer - there are several other targets for your bolts - it is def quite reasonable that Displacer will be on the board to deal with Sower. Finally - how would you use a displacer to blink the eldrazi players creatures? With your 1-of qhost quarter - that you somehow haven't used previously to hit a cavern or temple - seems unlikely..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/08-09-16-AUk-uwr-nahiri/
I played in a modern tournament yesterday, went 3-1 but had a Dispel in place of the Elspeth which I just picked up today. I wanted to play Tamiyo mainboard since I saw a Nahiri deck place 9th at a GP with it and I figured that was as good as making top 8 but having bad tiebreakers, but when I actually started playing I ended up sideboarding it out most of the time. I think it would be better in the sideboard and play a Vendilion Clique mainboard in its place. Also do I really need an Arid Mesa? I don't have one yet but I originally had one in the decklist, but the Glacial Fortress has been fine. I think I will still buy one just to have the option.
I'm curious does anyone else here actually prep and participate in GPs? GP lists and FNM lists are much different. If people could agree to try and play one list and do it with other strong players at a particular GP then we could learn more. But everyone playing different lists makes it almost impossible to learn anything.
I thought my last list would be particularly useful as it was 11-4 at GP level competition with no byes. But I haven't heard of anyone else even so much as trying the list.
If people are actually care about the archtpe itself being tier one then it's best to work together to make it work. Now I don't mind helping make a tight list for a particular GP meta either, if you are stateside you are likely to see lots of Bant Eldrazi and Jund, that list isn't going to be hard to make. Those match-ups can be crushed, if that's what you want to do. I just face so little Eldrazi in Asia it's not as worth it for me to put many cards toward that match-up.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Sharing a mainboard seems like a strong idea I'm definitely down for trying, especially since tappingstones, Jex and I tend to be on the same line of thought from what I've seen from this thread
for 1-2 cards in the sideboard that can shut them down or maybe slow them.
I don't actually play the deck, but I would assume you could try to attack the lands with something like blood moon (but you will have to fetch properly or you will be hurt by it yourself)
Or just play Leyline of Sanctity, which will protect you and your plainswalkers from Valakut (and you can path or counter the titans)
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.