Are there more UWR Streams? We got good old Shaun / Rudy and Trevor who I am missing? Where are the competive league grinders? I want to watch and learn and offer help if someone wants to setup a twitch stream and need some help
Another streamer is Daniel. He streams both Jeskai Nahiri and Jeskai Geist.
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Modern:WU WU Control | WBG Abzan Company Frontier:UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Unrelated, what do you guys think about the 24 land, Cryptic/Verdict lists? I don't know how I feel about AV in the main... seems slow.
What do you mean by "seems slow"? These decks were running Sphinx's revelation in the past. That card couldn't draw you three until you hit six land drops which is roughly T7 in a deck with 24-25 lands.
RIP is fine on MODO. There are a lot of dredge decks running around. Sure it hurts the Emrakul loot, but I'd rather completely shut that deck down. Relic is not always useful vs them. In paper, that depends on your local meta. I cut RIP and had Relic recently and played dredge round 1. Just my luck. If you want to get really techy, there's wheel of sun and moon, but if you don't land it early it loses a lot of value.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Sorry to cut in but I have all the cards for this deck except the colonnades,how important are they and will the deck play without them?
Also is four AV what I want to play?
Instead of emrakul I was thinking of using mindslaver.And it can be hard cast if drawn.
Been mucking with tons of builds since twin ban,want to play jeskai again.
Thanks.
What do we have against bogles with all their umbra?
And how do we beat merfolk?
You should have some number of Wear/Tear and EE in your sideboard for Boggles. Merfolk has been a historically good matchup for Jeskai. But it depends on your build. Ingram's list is much weaker to Merfolk than Davis's list as the extra copies of Lightning Helixs do a lot of work. Supreme Verdict is a good card to have against them if you generally see Merfolk in your local meta.
Unrelated, what do you guys think about the 24 land, Cryptic/Verdict lists? I don't know how I feel about AV in the main... seems slow.
What do you mean by "seems slow"? These decks were running Sphinx's revelation in the past. That card couldn't draw you three until you hit six land drops which is roughly T7 in a deck with 24-25 lands.
Different times, different metagame. We're in the "Infect kills you on turn 3 through interaction" era, where being down a card for 4 turns is potentially deadly. Heaven forbid you draw multiples against an aggressive deck. At worst, Cryptic can be an expensive Fog when you need that effect. Supreme Verdict punishes overextending into the board to pressure Nahiri. There are a lot of matchups where AV is going to be great, but my intuition and experience tells me that maindecking it is risky. Really, what I think it comes down to is whether you think your metagame is slow enough for that sort of effect. Personally, I think the deck is already good enough going long that it doesn't need more help in that area game one.
Sorry to cut in but I have all the cards for this deck except the colonnades,how important are they and will the deck play without them?
Also is four AV what I want to play?
Instead of emrakul I was thinking of using mindslaver.And it can be hard cast if drawn.
Been mucking with tons of builds since twin ban,want to play jeskai again.
Thanks.
Why would you play Mindslaver over Emarkul? It's very hit or miss whether that would have the impact you are looking for. For an optimized list you would want to run between 2-4 colonnades. You will often find yourself relying on this manland if your Nahiris get dealt with.
What do we have against bogles with all their umbra?
And how do we beat merfolk?
If you want to target boggles specifically then cards like Celestial Flare or the soon to be released Blessed Alliance. They get around umbra effects, however if the boggles player can get a read on what you are doing they can hold up a fetch land for a Dryad Arbor or already have sac fodder on the board (that Kor creature that draws cards, etc).
Wraths are still good because it is a form of interaction. Anywho the few times Ive played it I've found it to be a pretty swingy matchup.
Merfolk is pretty much -> board out counterspells and board in wear/tear and any and all things that kill creatures. Don't play into Cursecatcher, kill lords on sight, expect your mana to be disrupted (Spreading Seas), and save key removal (ie Path) for things like Master of Waves. Merfolk is a tempo aggro deck, so cast your cards as early as you can because you might not get a chance later.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Instead of emrakul I was thinking of using mindslaver.And it can be hard cast if drawn.
Instead of playing an almost guaranteed win when you ult nahiri you want to play a card that mildly inconveniences your opponent? Why? If you draw it you can't even loot it away and have it come back into your library for the ult.
Also collonades are pretty essential. You can get by with fumaroles but collonades are much better and I would recommend getting them as soon as you can.
Sorry to cut in but I have all the cards for this deck except the colonnades,how important are they and will the deck play without them?
Also is four AV what I want to play?
Instead of emrakul I was thinking of using mindslaver.And it can be hard cast if drawn.
Been mucking with tons of builds since twin ban,want to play jeskai again.
Thanks.
To an extent, I disagree with how unplayable the deck is without Celestial Colonnade. If you don't have Colonnade, I personally wouldn't bother trying. I'm not saying you won't ever win a game with a build like that, but it's a really bad deck. Contrary to the name of the deck, most of your wins won't come via Nahiri ultimates unless you're just trying to force that win-con in every single game.
I wouldn't play more than 3 Ancestral Vision, but this seems to be a matter of personal preference.
@HarryStyles, I'm not sure what you're trying to do. It looks like you added a bunch of cards that just draw more cards. If you want to crush the control mirror, play better threats. That could be a planeswalker or Keranos (in non-Jeskai mirrors) or creatures that are harder to deal with. Also, if you're playing a more classic control version, where are your main deck sweepers? You will need them.
More to the point, it seems like you're just trying to go all-in on the Nahiri ultimate or possibly being a bad burn deck(?). I don't know which, but this seems like such a sketchier game plan. The whole point of adding Nahiri was to have a way to close out games that could drag on forever. Now it seems like you want to undo all of that, but for what? Not to mention, you're going to have an issue dealing with opposing Colonnades and creatures with 3+ toughness.
Unrelated, what do you guys think about the 24 land, Cryptic/Verdict lists? I don't know how I feel about AV in the main... seems slow.
What do you mean by "seems slow"? These decks were running Sphinx's revelation in the past. That card couldn't draw you three until you hit six land drops which is roughly T7 in a deck with 24-25 lands.
Different times, different metagame. We're in the "Infect kills you on turn 3 through interaction" era, where being down a card for 4 turns is potentially deadly. Heaven forbid you draw multiples against an aggressive deck. At worst, Cryptic can be an expensive Fog when you need that effect. Supreme Verdict punishes overextending into the board to pressure Nahiri. There are a lot of matchups where AV is going to be great, but my intuition and experience tells me that maindecking it is risky. Really, what I think it comes down to is whether you think your metagame is slow enough for that sort of effect. Personally, I think the deck is already good enough going long that it doesn't need more help in that area game one.
That's actually not true. Infect became a Tier one Modern deck at the previous Modern PT which was a year before Eldrazi winter. It was just as dangerous at that time and people were running those slow cards in Jeskai control. The format has not gotten any faster since then. If anything the format has slowed down with an increase in Tron, Jeskai control and the ever present Jund.
But still, his point can be valid. There are a lot of 'I kill you turn 3-4' decks at the moment. Infect, Death's Shadow Zoo, Bushwhacker Zoo, Burn and then those combo decks you see once in a while.
On the play, AV suspended on turn 1 can be enough or even good against those decks, however it sucks to draw them later, when you want to draw bolts and paths to stop them. I would not say that those Match Ups are bad in particullar, but those decks are known for winning out of nowhere. I played Zooicide myself and the winning move was often turn 1 nacatl with mutagenic growth up. If you don't have multiple bolts + paths, you just lose. And that is the point where AV is too slow and a dead draw. That is why AV is not a 4 of and in a meta like that probably not more than a 2 of. I am not playing MTGO, but looking at the recent 5-0s, I imagine this meta a bit like what I described.
But still, his point can be valid. There are a lot of 'I kill you turn 3-4' decks at the moment. Infect, Death's Shadow Zoo, Bushwhacker Zoo, Burn and then those combo decks you see once in a while.
On the play, AV suspended on turn 1 can be enough or even good against those decks, however it sucks to draw them later, when you want to draw bolts and paths to stop them. I would not say that those Match Ups are bad in particullar, but those decks are known for winning out of nowhere. I played Zooicide myself and the winning move was often turn 1 nacatl with mutagenic growth up. If you don't have multiple bolts + paths, you just lose. And that is the point where AV is too slow and a dead draw. That is why AV is not a 4 of and in a meta like that probably not more than a 2 of. I am not playing MTGO, but looking at the recent 5-0s, I imagine this meta a bit like what I described.
There aren't many cards that are good in all match-ups.
Your point was, that the metagame has not become any faster, which I tried to relativise. Both Bushwhacker and Suicide Zoo are newer decks. If you have a lot of fast deck at your local meta, I think it might be a good idea to cut down on AV.
Is there actually a card, which always is a good card ? I guess it is not even true for Nahiri or Lightning Bolt. Even if those are our Wincons. But that is a general problem in Modern. There are so many different decks, that deckbuilding becomes a lot different. This is the problem why there can't be a good Control deck (Control as in the old Jeskai or an Esper draw go), because you have to be grindy enough to win against the Midrange decks, but also have to have a lot of removal to win against hyper aggro. In a big tournament 3 Av is probably where you want to be at the moment, but at a local level, where a loss is more devastating standings wise, you have to tweak your deck.
Your point was, that the metagame has not become any faster, which I tried to relativise. Both Bushwhacker and Suicide Zoo are newer decks. If you have a lot of fast deck at your local meta, I think it might be a good idea to cut down on AV.
Is there actually a card, which always is a good card ? I guess it is not even true for Nahiri or Lightning Bolt. Even if those are our Wincons. But that is a general problem in Modern. There are so many different decks, that deckbuilding becomes a lot different. This is the problem why there can't be a good Control deck (Control as in the old Jeskai or an Esper draw go), because you have to be grindy enough to win against the Midrange decks, but also have to have a lot of removal to win against hyper aggro. In a big tournament 3 Av is probably where you want to be at the moment, but at a local level, where a loss is more devastating standings wise, you have to tweak your deck.
You are right. Of course, if your local meta is slanted hard in a certain way then your deck will be inbreed toward beating those decks, but as you correctly identified AV is good against a general field and the power level is so high that it's worth running 3-4. I predict 4 will become the normal number in the future...as it usually does.
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Another streamer is Daniel. He streams both Jeskai Nahiri and Jeskai Geist.
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
What do you mean by "seems slow"? These decks were running Sphinx's revelation in the past. That card couldn't draw you three until you hit six land drops which is roughly T7 in a deck with 24-25 lands.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Also is four AV what I want to play?
Instead of emrakul I was thinking of using mindslaver.And it can be hard cast if drawn.
Been mucking with tons of builds since twin ban,want to play jeskai again.
Thanks.
And how do we beat merfolk?
TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
You should have some number of Wear/Tear and EE in your sideboard for Boggles. Merfolk has been a historically good matchup for Jeskai. But it depends on your build. Ingram's list is much weaker to Merfolk than Davis's list as the extra copies of Lightning Helixs do a lot of work. Supreme Verdict is a good card to have against them if you generally see Merfolk in your local meta.
Different times, different metagame. We're in the "Infect kills you on turn 3 through interaction" era, where being down a card for 4 turns is potentially deadly. Heaven forbid you draw multiples against an aggressive deck. At worst, Cryptic can be an expensive Fog when you need that effect. Supreme Verdict punishes overextending into the board to pressure Nahiri. There are a lot of matchups where AV is going to be great, but my intuition and experience tells me that maindecking it is risky. Really, what I think it comes down to is whether you think your metagame is slow enough for that sort of effect. Personally, I think the deck is already good enough going long that it doesn't need more help in that area game one.
Why would you play Mindslaver over Emarkul? It's very hit or miss whether that would have the impact you are looking for. For an optimized list you would want to run between 2-4 colonnades. You will often find yourself relying on this manland if your Nahiris get dealt with.
If you want to target boggles specifically then cards like Celestial Flare or the soon to be released Blessed Alliance. They get around umbra effects, however if the boggles player can get a read on what you are doing they can hold up a fetch land for a Dryad Arbor or already have sac fodder on the board (that Kor creature that draws cards, etc).
Wraths are still good because it is a form of interaction. Anywho the few times Ive played it I've found it to be a pretty swingy matchup.
Merfolk is pretty much -> board out counterspells and board in wear/tear and any and all things that kill creatures. Don't play into Cursecatcher, kill lords on sight, expect your mana to be disrupted (Spreading Seas), and save key removal (ie Path) for things like Master of Waves. Merfolk is a tempo aggro deck, so cast your cards as early as you can because you might not get a chance later.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)TappedOut
Would love to have more input to improve!
Instead of playing an almost guaranteed win when you ult nahiri you want to play a card that mildly inconveniences your opponent? Why? If you draw it you can't even loot it away and have it come back into your library for the ult.
Also collonades are pretty essential. You can get by with fumaroles but collonades are much better and I would recommend getting them as soon as you can.
To an extent, I disagree with how unplayable the deck is without Celestial Colonnade. If you don't have Colonnade, I personally wouldn't bother trying. I'm not saying you won't ever win a game with a build like that, but it's a really bad deck. Contrary to the name of the deck, most of your wins won't come via Nahiri ultimates unless you're just trying to force that win-con in every single game.
I wouldn't play more than 3 Ancestral Vision, but this seems to be a matter of personal preference.
Mindslaver is awful. Unless you're on a build involving Academy Ruins, Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek, there's no point in playing this over Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.
More to the point, it seems like you're just trying to go all-in on the Nahiri ultimate or possibly being a bad burn deck(?). I don't know which, but this seems like such a sketchier game plan. The whole point of adding Nahiri was to have a way to close out games that could drag on forever. Now it seems like you want to undo all of that, but for what? Not to mention, you're going to have an issue dealing with opposing Colonnades and creatures with 3+ toughness.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
That's actually not true. Infect became a Tier one Modern deck at the previous Modern PT which was a year before Eldrazi winter. It was just as dangerous at that time and people were running those slow cards in Jeskai control. The format has not gotten any faster since then. If anything the format has slowed down with an increase in Tron, Jeskai control and the ever present Jund.
On the play, AV suspended on turn 1 can be enough or even good against those decks, however it sucks to draw them later, when you want to draw bolts and paths to stop them. I would not say that those Match Ups are bad in particullar, but those decks are known for winning out of nowhere. I played Zooicide myself and the winning move was often turn 1 nacatl with mutagenic growth up. If you don't have multiple bolts + paths, you just lose. And that is the point where AV is too slow and a dead draw. That is why AV is not a 4 of and in a meta like that probably not more than a 2 of. I am not playing MTGO, but looking at the recent 5-0s, I imagine this meta a bit like what I described.
There aren't many cards that are good in all match-ups.
Is there actually a card, which always is a good card ? I guess it is not even true for Nahiri or Lightning Bolt. Even if those are our Wincons. But that is a general problem in Modern. There are so many different decks, that deckbuilding becomes a lot different. This is the problem why there can't be a good Control deck (Control as in the old Jeskai or an Esper draw go), because you have to be grindy enough to win against the Midrange decks, but also have to have a lot of removal to win against hyper aggro. In a big tournament 3 Av is probably where you want to be at the moment, but at a local level, where a loss is more devastating standings wise, you have to tweak your deck.
You are right. Of course, if your local meta is slanted hard in a certain way then your deck will be inbreed toward beating those decks, but as you correctly identified AV is good against a general field and the power level is so high that it's worth running 3-4. I predict 4 will become the normal number in the future...as it usually does.