I play both decks, Merfolk and Jeskai. I think people on here have just played against bad merfolk pilots - or have an unusual 75 with tons of EE and board wipes ( I play 3 board wipes and 1x EE and its usually not enough to get there) and/or the Merfolk build skips Kira's and cheap counters like pierce and dispel (that is a bad build of Merfolk imo). I'd accept opinions that have it around 50/50 but to say its 'easy' for jeskai is straight up bragging and just plain wrong - with that type of causal dismissal of the deck you will get rekt at a big tournament by Merfolk.
I'm currently 2-1 vs Merfolk with my list. And my one loss was only because I forgot Supreme Verdict couldn't be countered... oops xD.
Merfolk is favorable. Though we must still respect the matchup. The biggest challenge with merfolk is when they are able to string several lords together.
I'm not just talking two or three. I'm talking Four+ lords. Back to back. The only games against fish where I loose is when they draw several lords and I simply don't have the removal for them.
In the top 8 of the 2k I ended up beating fish round 1. I dropped a single game. In that game my opponent played 6 lords. Despite that, I still almost stabilized.
One of the biggest problems against merfolk is the disruption they bring in. There's so much versatilty in the form of land control, gy hate And stack response which is hard to play around.
Being said that i think the matchup is not bad, however it ain't good either. It's about How your sideboarding went And whether you could find wraths or not.
Also, i usually bring spreading seas on the play to screw the ur caverna And mutavaults.
Again, is more about whether you know How the matchup plays out and they don't fool you into combat tricks that blank your removal,etc.
One of the biggest problems against merfolk is the disruption they bring in. There's so much versatilty in the form of land control, gy hate And stack response which is hard to play around.
Being said that i think the matchup is not bad, however it ain't good either. It's about How your sideboarding went And whether you could find wraths or not.
Also, i usually bring spreading seas on the play to screw the ur caverna And mutavaults.
Again, is more about whether you know How the matchup plays out and they don't fool you into combat tricks that blank your removal,etc.
Again. I disagree. From my play testing experience it's about 60-40. Especially if you play x3 helixs. And supreme verdict post board.
If you know how to navigate this matchup, it is indeed slightly favorable.
Im looking for some advices for my lists. I was trying to take a picture of my local meta in the last event and this was the result:
Affinity 5
Jund 4
Tron 4
Burn 4
Coco 3
Valakault 2
Delver 2
Dredge 2
Jeskai Control 2
UW control 2
4C Gift 2
Zoo 2
GR Devotion 2
Eldrazi Taxes 1
Infect 1
Merfolk 1
Suicide 1
Ad Nauseam 1
Storm 1
Boogles 1
Bant Eldrazi 1
Lantern 1
My first list was the more comfortable for me in my FNM test, maybe because i love a more control oriented style (I play the old Jeskai Control and i love it, and i play UW control).
Then i try a more fast aproach, Im a control player, but i make my bests performances in tournaments with Jeskai Geist and Death and Taxes, more midrange decks... I dont blame my decks, i blame the pilot, maybe im making mistakes with my control skills (advices accepted!), for that im trying a more fast aproach:
Im looking for some advices for my lists. I was trying to take a picture of my local meta in the last event and this was the result:
Affinity 5
Jund 4
Tron 4
Burn 4
Coco 3
Valakault 2
Delver 2
Dredge 2
Jeskai Control 2
UW control 2
4C Gift 2
Zoo 2
GR Devotion 2
Eldrazi Taxes 1
Infect 1
Merfolk 1
Suicide 1
Ad Nauseam 1
Storm 1
Boogles 1
Bant Eldrazi 1
Lantern 1
My first list was the more comfortable for me in my FNM test, maybe because i love a more control oriented style (I play the old Jeskai Control and i love it, and i play UW control).
...
Then i try a more fast aproach, Im a control player, but i make my bests performances in tournaments with Jeskai Geist and Death and Taxes, more midrange decks... I dont blame my decks, i blame the pilot, maybe im making mistakes with my control skills (advices accepted!), for that im trying a more fast aproach:
...
Well... I love if our old dogs can give me some advice, or hear your opinions about my list and my meta.
Thank you community!!!
NOTE:
1-I dont have 4 scalding tarns and i want buy the other after a reprint...
2-First time posting decks, sorry if arent good enough.
Am I missing something? I feel like I counted 58 cards for your lists.
Regardless I would probably take the second list as a starting point since it more closely resembles 'stock' Nahiri lists that have been around for a while.
You have a pretty diverse local meta, so I guess you want to keep things generic as possible and just evaluate single cards as "good/okay/bad" for particular matchups.
For instance Spell Snare is good against Affinity, whereas Remand is not.
I would like to see 1-2 more sweepers in the list to fight through Jund, Abzan, and other creature decks. Anger of the Gods can be invalidated by many creature based decks.
Also I would personally never go below 4 Paths. The 4 Path + 4 Bolt + 4 Snapcasters is pretty core to the power of our deck, not to mention many of the decks you listed don't care about 3 dmg removal (Eldrazi, Tron, Jund, Coco, Dredge, etc). Having Path and Mana Leak is anti-synergy but we play with the tools we have.
If you start from the second list you should include some more lifegain somewhere. Looks like burn is fairly popular near you and leaning on 2 Helix just won't cut it if they get any sort of reasonable draw.
Not to differentiate from the current discussion too much... but what do you all think of Electrolyze?
I've seen some lists that run 2... some 1... some none at all.
I'm at a crucial point where I'm trying to find room for the 4th path and "possibly" an anger/verdict.
Unfortunately my 60 is jam packed and having trouble finding room. I don't want to cut helix (I feel like you want at least 3 in this meta). Which leaves me with either this card or counter magic.
Thoughts? I'm super paranoid about cutting it because electrolyze has been a staple for so long.
Im looking for some advices for my lists. I was trying to take a picture of my local meta in the last event and this was the result:
Affinity 5
Jund 4
Tron 4
Burn 4
Coco 3
Valakault 2
Delver 2
Dredge 2
Jeskai Control 2
UW control 2
4C Gift 2
Zoo 2
GR Devotion 2
Eldrazi Taxes 1
Infect 1
Merfolk 1
Suicide 1
Ad Nauseam 1
Storm 1
Boogles 1
Bant Eldrazi 1
Lantern 1
My first list was the more comfortable for me in my FNM test, maybe because i love a more control oriented style (I play the old Jeskai Control and i love it, and i play UW control).
...
Then i try a more fast aproach, Im a control player, but i make my bests performances in tournaments with Jeskai Geist and Death and Taxes, more midrange decks... I dont blame my decks, i blame the pilot, maybe im making mistakes with my control skills (advices accepted!), for that im trying a more fast aproach:
...
Well... I love if our old dogs can give me some advice, or hear your opinions about my list and my meta.
Thank you community!!!
NOTE:
1-I dont have 4 scalding tarns and i want buy the other after a reprint...
2-First time posting decks, sorry if arent good enough.
Am I missing something? I feel like I counted 58 cards for your lists.
Regardless I would probably take the second list as a starting point since it more closely resembles 'stock' Nahiri lists that have been around for a while.
You have a pretty diverse local meta, so I guess you want to keep things generic as possible and just evaluate single cards as "good/okay/bad" for particular matchups.
For instance Spell Snare is good against Affinity, whereas Remand is not.
I would like to see 1-2 more sweepers in the list to fight through Jund, Abzan, and other creature decks. Anger of the Gods can be invalidated by many creature based decks.
Also I would personally never go below 4 Paths. The 4 Path + 4 Bolt + 4 Snapcasters is pretty core to the power of our deck, not to mention many of the decks you listed don't care about 3 dmg removal (Eldrazi, Tron, Jund, Coco, Dredge, etc). Having Path and Mana Leak is anti-synergy but we play with the tools we have.
If you start from the second list you should include some more lifegain somewhere. Looks like burn is fairly popular near you and leaning on 2 Helix just won't cut it if they get any sort of reasonable draw.
Thank Tronix! I really apreciate your opinion! You and others members in this forum (and the older UWR control) are really helpful with your post (Jex, Chaos, tappingstones, Bearscape, etc, etc, etc.)
You have right, I missing 1 timely and a 4 path in decklist, now its OK.
Im agree with you, my local meta is really diverse and i found anger not soooo good. But pro players or other decks in this forum play 1/2 copies and they feel great... for that i keep playing some copies... but never feel great about that. Maybe I must change for some Rest in peace/Wrath of god...
4 Paths... yes... you are right, i need go to four in both list. Specially without graveyard hate for Tarmo and so much Jund.
I forgot put Timely in my list, that is the missing lifegain source. Done!
@axman
Affinity is a big part of my meta, i found myself missing electrolyze a lot of times... I think is meta dependant.
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Modern: Jeskai control / Jeskai Geist
Death and taxes / UW control
Im looking for some advices for my lists. I was trying to take a picture of my local meta in the last event and this was the result:
Affinity 5
Jund 4
Tron 4
Burn 4
Coco 3
Valakault 2
Delver 2
Dredge 2
Jeskai Control 2
UW control 2
4C Gift 2
Zoo 2
GR Devotion 2
Eldrazi Taxes 1
Infect 1
Merfolk 1
Suicide 1
Ad Nauseam 1
Storm 1
Boogles 1
Bant Eldrazi 1
Lantern 1
My first list was the more comfortable for me in my FNM test, maybe because i love a more control oriented style (I play the old Jeskai Control and i love it, and i play UW control).
...
Then i try a more fast aproach, Im a control player, but i make my bests performances in tournaments with Jeskai Geist and Death and Taxes, more midrange decks... I dont blame my decks, i blame the pilot, maybe im making mistakes with my control skills (advices accepted!), for that im trying a more fast aproach:
...
Well... I love if our old dogs can give me some advice, or hear your opinions about my list and my meta.
Thank you community!!!
NOTE:
1-I dont have 4 scalding tarns and i want buy the other after a reprint...
2-First time posting decks, sorry if arent good enough.
Am I missing something? I feel like I counted 58 cards for your lists.
Regardless I would probably take the second list as a starting point since it more closely resembles 'stock' Nahiri lists that have been around for a while.
You have a pretty diverse local meta, so I guess you want to keep things generic as possible and just evaluate single cards as "good/okay/bad" for particular matchups.
For instance Spell Snare is good against Affinity, whereas Remand is not.
I would like to see 1-2 more sweepers in the list to fight through Jund, Abzan, and other creature decks. Anger of the Gods can be invalidated by many creature based decks.
Also I would personally never go below 4 Paths. The 4 Path + 4 Bolt + 4 Snapcasters is pretty core to the power of our deck, not to mention many of the decks you listed don't care about 3 dmg removal (Eldrazi, Tron, Jund, Coco, Dredge, etc). Having Path and Mana Leak is anti-synergy but we play with the tools we have.
If you start from the second list you should include some more lifegain somewhere. Looks like burn is fairly popular near you and leaning on 2 Helix just won't cut it if they get any sort of reasonable draw.
Thank Tronix! I really apreciate your opinion! You and others members in this forum (and the older UWR control) are really helpful with your post (Jex, Chaos, tappingstones, Bearscape, etc, etc, etc.)
You have right, I missing 1 timely and a 4 path in decklist, now its OK.
Im agree with you, my local meta is really diverse and i found anger not soooo good. But pro players or other decks in this forum play 1/2 copies and they feel great... for that i keep playing some copies... but never feel great about that. Maybe I must change for some Rest in peace/Wrath of god...
4 Paths... yes... you are right, i need go to four in both list. Specially without graveyard hate for Tarmo and so much Jund.
I forgot put Timely in my list, that is the missing lifegain source. Done!
@axman
Affinity is a big part of my meta, i found myself missing electrolyze a lot of times... I think is meta dependant.
The problem I'm facing: against affinity PtE and Helix are also excellent vs Affinity. Unfortunately I can only play so many removal spells : /
Electrolyze can be slow, but it's good against Affinity and Company. It depends on what your meta is like. Also, gotta say that I like your double Anger main. It's so good against so much right now.
Been playing Jeskai Nahiri on and off at my local FNM since May and going 4-0 or 3-1 most weeks. Meta at FNM is pretty soft with mostly creature decks like Abzan, Affinity, Burn, BW Tokens, CoCo, Death's Zoo, Delver, Infect, Jund Very few of bad match ups 1 Bant Eldrazi, 1 Bring to Light Scapshift, 2 Tron players and 1-3 other control players. Played in a some leagues on MTGO and went 3-2 mostly couple 4-1s but no 5-0. Online seems to be pretty random what I play against in different leagues.
Looking to make a few tweaks and test them online and at FNM before Modern Season.
Sideboarding
Affinity
+2 Anger of the Gods +1 Engineered Explosives, +1 Izzet Staticaster, +1 Stony Silence, , +1 Wrath of God,
-2 Cryptic Command, -2 Mana Leak, -2 Remand,
Jund
+1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion, +2 Vendillion Clique, +1 Wrath of God
-2 Lightning Bolt, -1 Lightning Helix
Merfolk
+1 Engineered Explosives, +2 Anger of the Gods, +1 Wrath of God
-2 Cryptic Command, -2 Remand,
Scapeshift
+1 Crumble to Dust, +2 Negate, +2 Vendilion Clique
-3 Ancestral Visions, -2 Path to Exile.
Tokens
+2 Anger of the Gods, +1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion, +1 Izzet Staticaster, +2 Negate
-1 Lightning Bolt, -1 Path to Exile. -2 Remand, -2 Spell Snare
Tron
+1 Crumble to Dust, +2 Negate, +2 Vendillion Clique
-1 Spell Snare, -1 Path to Exile, -3 Ancestral Visions
Zoo
+2 Anger of the Gods, +1 Engineered Explosives, +1 Wrath of God
-2 Remind, -2 Cryptic Comm
Some card choices.
Cryptic Command Been running Cryptic Command in Splinter Twin before it got banned and Esper Draw Go and don't see running with out it. Hard counter is nice to have mid to late game since we do not have counterspell. Drawing cards is always good and tap all creatures is used often with so many creature decks. I was running a singleton and a second Verdict for awhile but went back up to 2. 24 lands has worked well enough.
Supreme Verdict As far as main deck board wipes I feel this is the best one. Anger misses quite a bit and having to Wrath a Thrun usually only happens post board. Being Uncounterable is relevant against Merfolk and Delver.
Celestial Colonnade Play the full 4 because they get much better game 2 when some ammount of creature removal is boarded out and pretty good against all the mid range creature decks and to attack planeswalkers.
Ghost Quarter With all the creature lands around in my meta this seemed to be the 24th utility land to run. I tried Lighthouse and it was nice to dig but having an answer to creature lands is pretty important. Will have to try Kher Keep at some point.
Sideboard cards.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion Expensive at 6 mana but has been excellent in all mid range creature match ups. Also good in Control mirrors. Hard to deal with outside of Dreadbore/Maelstrom Pulse and another board wipe
Crumble to Dust Just one mostly for creature lands and Cavern of Souls. Not as effective against Tron with
Izzet Staticaster Really good in my meta with Token decks without an Anthem in play, Infect, Affinity.
Wrath of God Most green creature decks sideboard a Thrun or two need a way to kill it.
Would like to fit a Wear/Tear for things like Choke but not sure what to cut.
Cute things tried and rejected Baneslayer Angel Good finisher but people caught on to it and leave in removal might be better if I didn't play it every week at FNM. Elspeth is better in some matches.
Splash Black for Kolagams Command, Lingering Souls, Sorin, and sideboard Slaugter Games. This was great for control mirrors and mid range creature decks but already good there and was worse against burn and did not seem to help against bad matches at all. Oddly most of the control players stopped showing up besides myself and couple other one running Jeskai and other running straight blue white. Slaughter Games was a bit slow at 4 mana but was good if resolved against Scapeshift. The living end player always killed me before I can cast it between Fulminators and beast with in on my lands. The black splash was awesome when I was playing up to two or three control matches a night. They stopped showing up so changed back. Also missed Cryptic Command when running 4 colors.
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage - Thought this would be good to tap creatures and combo with Nahiri to kill creatures with card draw bonus. Not as effective as I would have hoped 5 mana is alot and hard to use card draw ability.
I think Electrolyze is best in the versions that are not running main deck AV.
Prior to the AV unban many old URW players will know that our main form of "card advantage" was churning through our deck with cards like Remand, then pulling ahead with the occasional 2-for-1 with cards like Electrolyze and or Snap + *insert spell*.
If you are running AV you want to generally have a lower curve, both so you can play all the cards you draw from AV and so you can be mana efficient in the early turns to make up for lost tempo resulting from the suspended AV.
For me the slot(s) that I use for Anger of the Gods were previously Electrolyze. Both are 3 CMC so they fit the same slot on the curve, and both act as a catch up/pull ahead effect.
My next change to my deck is going up to six cantrips by adding Sleight of Hand and moving AV to the sideboard. Will see if this improves the performance of sideboard cards and consistency against super fast decks.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I think Electrolyze is best in the versions that are not running main deck AV.
Prior to the AV unban many old URW players will know that our main form of "card advantage" was churning through our deck with cards like Remand, then pulling ahead with the occasional 2-for-1 with cards like Electrolyze and or Snap + *insert spell*.
If you are running AV you want to generally have a lower curve, both so you can play all the cards you draw from AV and so you can be mana efficient in the early turns to make up for lost tempo resulting from the suspended AV.
For me the slot(s) that I use for Anger of the Gods were previously Electrolyze. Both are 3 CMC so they fit the same slot on the curve, and both act as a catch up/pull ahead effect.
My next change to my deck is going up to six cantrips by adding Sleight of Hand and moving AV to the sideboard. Will see if this improves the performance of sideboard cards and consistency against super fast decks.
For me, casting Anger on curve wasn't easy... most lists run 7-8 nonred sources in 23 lands
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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I think Electrolyze is best in the versions that are not running main deck AV.
Prior to the AV unban many old URW players will know that our main form of "card advantage" was churning through our deck with cards like Remand, then pulling ahead with the occasional 2-for-1 with cards like Electrolyze and or Snap + *insert spell*.
If you are running AV you want to generally have a lower curve, both so you can play all the cards you draw from AV and so you can be mana efficient in the early turns to make up for lost tempo resulting from the suspended AV.
For me the slot(s) that I use for Anger of the Gods were previously Electrolyze. Both are 3 CMC so they fit the same slot on the curve, and both act as a catch up/pull ahead effect.
My next change to my deck is going up to six cantrips by adding Sleight of Hand and moving AV to the sideboard. Will see if this improves the performance of sideboard cards and consistency against super fast decks.
May I ask why so many of you seem to be having trouble with fast decks? Because you shouldn't be. And how Sleight is going to help is really beyond me. 4 Serum Visions is PLENTY of that effect for this deck and the AVs are essentially the most powerful thing we can do.
Went to a PPTQ yesterday and ended up top 4ing with the same non-nahiri list I posted a few days ago.
Beat Tron, GW midrange, Burn, Elves, and Kiki Chord. My only loss in both the swiss and semi-finals was vs GR Ponza. An abysmal matchup that's worse then Tron, Dredge, GR through the breech combined.
Not sure if we can ever win that matchup.
May I ask why so many of you seem to be having trouble with fast decks? Because you shouldn't be. And how Sleight is going to help is really beyond me. 4 Serum Visions is PLENTY of that effect for this deck and the AVs are essentially the most powerful thing we can do.
As @HarryStyles69 mentioned it is not that I have been struggling particularly with fast decks, it is just that such a large portion of the strongest decks in the format look to kill you super quick. Affinity, Infect, Zoo, Burn, Dredge, etc, etc. We are basically at the mercy of our draws to ensure we have the right suite of situational answers to stave off death.
Sure AV on turn 1 is strong if you plan to trade resources and then reload. However what happens when you draw 2 AVs + taplands + some number of 2 CMC counters? A hand of lands a spells, keepable against many decks; however against a fast start from any of the decks I mentioned above and if any of your drawsteps are lands you probably lose.
How cards perform in various situations is just as important as just ensuring that the effect is strategically sound. For example we play plenty of counters because it is a really useful defensive/reactive effect that fits with our goal of going lategame, but permission is horrible to draw if you are behind. So for that reason we don't overload on the effect and diversify our toolbox (removal, threats, etc).
I like AV. I play AV. However I am tired of people ignoring that there is a real downside to the card. It is asinine to plan around and theorize solely under the assumption that your draws will always be smooth. 1 CMC cantrip/selection spells are the most mana efficient way to improve the consistency of the deck.
I am choosing Sleight of Hand over other more powerful/better options simply because of the casting cost. I have plenty of reasons to hold up mana on turn 2, or play a 1 CMC spell + hold up 2 mana on turn 3; adding Anticipate or Telling Time would probably just complicate things.
Also having more selection/velocity means the likelyhood of seeing sideboard cards and singleton spells, and considering some sideboard hate can swing a game that could prove as a net advantage.
I am not arguing that adding Sleight or removing AV maindeck are strictly correct choices, but I think my hypothesis has some merit and is worth trying out.
Unless you are playing in larger competitive events I personally think that everyone should be updating trying new things every week. It isn't as if changing a few slots here and there is going to change the core functionality of the deck.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Went to a PPTQ yesterday and ended up top 4ing with the same non-nahiri list I posted a few days ago.
Beat Tron, GW midrange, Burn, Elves, and Kiki Chord. My only loss in both the swiss and semi-finals was vs GR Ponza. An abysmal matchup that's worse then Tron, Dredge, GR through the breech combined.
Not sure if we can ever win that matchup.
Axman, how was the match up against GR Breach? I've been seeing this deck a lot recently and reading their primer, it seems it has a powerful game against control. I've only played it once and won a game 3 due to letting a Summoner's Pact resolve and bouncing their second green source with Cryptic Command. It doesn't seem like a common play, but what I noticed was in all 3 games, the GR Breach player favoured mountains over forests with Valakut, the Molten Pinnacles. Maybe an auto win due to Summoner's Pact isn't too far-fetched. Also what's GR Ponza? I'm feeling sick the way you're describing it
I think you misread me. It wasn't GR through the breech. It was GR ponza... which is 100% worse then through the breech.
GR ponza is GR land destruction with main-decked Thruns and Storm Breath Dragons. AKA the turn two blood moon deck. GR Through the breech is a tough matchup... but I'd rather play that all day then Ponza once
I've played that matchup a few times online (GR through the breech). It is not favored... but it's not un-winnable.
I'm currently 2-1 vs Merfolk with my list. And my one loss was only because I forgot Supreme Verdict couldn't be countered... oops xD.
Merfolk is favorable. Though we must still respect the matchup. The biggest challenge with merfolk is when they are able to string several lords together.
I'm not just talking two or three. I'm talking Four+ lords. Back to back. The only games against fish where I loose is when they draw several lords and I simply don't have the removal for them.
In the top 8 of the 2k I ended up beating fish round 1. I dropped a single game. In that game my opponent played 6 lords. Despite that, I still almost stabilized.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Being said that i think the matchup is not bad, however it ain't good either. It's about How your sideboarding went And whether you could find wraths or not.
Also, i usually bring spreading seas on the play to screw the ur caverna And mutavaults.
Again, is more about whether you know How the matchup plays out and they don't fool you into combat tricks that blank your removal,etc.
Again. I disagree. From my play testing experience it's about 60-40. Especially if you play x3 helixs. And supreme verdict post board.
If you know how to navigate this matchup, it is indeed slightly favorable.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
He was responding to the activation of the Neonate.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
Im looking for some advices for my lists. I was trying to take a picture of my local meta in the last event and this was the result:
Affinity 5
Jund 4
Tron 4
Burn 4
Coco 3
Valakault 2
Delver 2
Dredge 2
Jeskai Control 2
UW control 2
4C Gift 2
Zoo 2
GR Devotion 2
Eldrazi Taxes 1
Infect 1
Merfolk 1
Suicide 1
Ad Nauseam 1
Storm 1
Boogles 1
Bant Eldrazi 1
Lantern 1
My first list was the more comfortable for me in my FNM test, maybe because i love a more control oriented style (I play the old Jeskai Control and i love it, and i play UW control).
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Path to exile
2x Ancestral Vision
1x Spell snare
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Lightning Helix
2x Mana Leak
3x Remand
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Electrolyze
2x Cryptic Command
1x Supreme Verdict
4x Nahiri, the Harbinger
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Flooded Strand
1x Scalding Tarn
2x Arid Mesa
1x Polluted Delta
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
3x Island
1x Plain
1x Mountain
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Anger of the gods
1x Stony Silence
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Negate
1x Dispel
2x Crumble to dust
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Spreading Seas
1x Wear // Tear
Then i try a more fast aproach, Im a control player, but i make my bests performances in tournaments with Jeskai Geist and Death and Taxes, more midrange decks... I dont blame my decks, i blame the pilot, maybe im making mistakes with my control skills (advices accepted!), for that im trying a more fast aproach:
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to exile
3x Ancestral Vision
2x Spell snare
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Lightning Helix
3x Mana Leak
3x Remand
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Anger of the gods
1x Timely Reinforcements
4x Nahiri, the Harbinger
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Flooded Strand
1x Scalding Tarn
2x Arid Mesa
1x Polluted Delta
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
3x Island
1x Plain
1x Mountain
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Anger of the gods
1x Stony Silence
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Negate
1x Dispel
2x Crumble to dust
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Spreading Seas
1x Wear // Tear
Well... I love if our old dogs can give me some advice, or hear your opinions about my list and my meta.
Thank you community!!!
NOTE:
1-I dont have 4 scalding tarns and i want buy the other after a reprint...
2-First time posting decks, sorry if arent good enough.
Death and taxes / UW control
Am I missing something? I feel like I counted 58 cards for your lists.
Regardless I would probably take the second list as a starting point since it more closely resembles 'stock' Nahiri lists that have been around for a while.
You have a pretty diverse local meta, so I guess you want to keep things generic as possible and just evaluate single cards as "good/okay/bad" for particular matchups.
For instance Spell Snare is good against Affinity, whereas Remand is not.
I would like to see 1-2 more sweepers in the list to fight through Jund, Abzan, and other creature decks. Anger of the Gods can be invalidated by many creature based decks.
Also I would personally never go below 4 Paths. The 4 Path + 4 Bolt + 4 Snapcasters is pretty core to the power of our deck, not to mention many of the decks you listed don't care about 3 dmg removal (Eldrazi, Tron, Jund, Coco, Dredge, etc). Having Path and Mana Leak is anti-synergy but we play with the tools we have.
If you start from the second list you should include some more lifegain somewhere. Looks like burn is fairly popular near you and leaning on 2 Helix just won't cut it if they get any sort of reasonable draw.
Ive been toying with the idea of a maindeck Blessed Alliance instead of Timely Reinforcements, but I haven't pulled the trigger quite yet.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I've seen some lists that run 2... some 1... some none at all.
I'm at a crucial point where I'm trying to find room for the 4th path and "possibly" an anger/verdict.
Unfortunately my 60 is jam packed and having trouble finding room. I don't want to cut helix (I feel like you want at least 3 in this meta). Which leaves me with either this card or counter magic.
Thoughts? I'm super paranoid about cutting it because electrolyze has been a staple for so long.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
@tronix
Thank Tronix! I really apreciate your opinion! You and others members in this forum (and the older UWR control) are really helpful with your post (Jex, Chaos, tappingstones, Bearscape, etc, etc, etc.)
You have right, I missing 1 timely and a 4 path in decklist, now its OK.
Im agree with you, my local meta is really diverse and i found anger not soooo good. But pro players or other decks in this forum play 1/2 copies and they feel great... for that i keep playing some copies... but never feel great about that. Maybe I must change for some Rest in peace/Wrath of god...
4 Paths... yes... you are right, i need go to four in both list. Specially without graveyard hate for Tarmo and so much Jund.
I forgot put Timely in my list, that is the missing lifegain source. Done!
@axman
Affinity is a big part of my meta, i found myself missing electrolyze a lot of times... I think is meta dependant.
Death and taxes / UW control
The problem I'm facing: against affinity PtE and Helix are also excellent vs Affinity. Unfortunately I can only play so many removal spells : /
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
This sounds great, ive always hated timely but having a maindeck hate for boggles sounds great. Will try out and report back
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
3 Ancestral Vision
2 Cryptic Command
1 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
2 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
2 Remand
2 Spell Snare
4 Serum Visions
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Arid Mesa
4 Celestial Colonnade
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Negate
1 Rest in Peace
1 Stony Silence
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Vendillion Clique
1 Wrath of God
Been playing Jeskai Nahiri on and off at my local FNM since May and going 4-0 or 3-1 most weeks. Meta at FNM is pretty soft with mostly creature decks like Abzan, Affinity, Burn, BW Tokens, CoCo, Death's Zoo, Delver, Infect, Jund Very few of bad match ups 1 Bant Eldrazi, 1 Bring to Light Scapshift, 2 Tron players and 1-3 other control players. Played in a some leagues on MTGO and went 3-2 mostly couple 4-1s but no 5-0. Online seems to be pretty random what I play against in different leagues.
Looking to make a few tweaks and test them online and at FNM before Modern Season.
Sideboarding
Affinity
+2 Anger of the Gods +1 Engineered Explosives, +1 Izzet Staticaster, +1 Stony Silence, , +1 Wrath of God,
-2 Cryptic Command, -2 Mana Leak, -2 Remand,
Burn
+1 Engineered Explosives, 2 Negate, 2 Timely Reinforcements
-2 Cryptic Command, -2 Remand
CoCo
+1 Izzet Staticaster, +2 Anger of the Gods, +1 Wrath of God
-2 Spell Snare, -1 Lightning Helix, -1 Cryptic Command
Control
+1 Elspeth Sun's Champion +2 Negate, +2 Vendillion Clique
-3 Lightning Bolt, -1 Lightning Helix, -1 Path to Exile.
Death's Shadow Zoo
+2 Anger of the Gods, +1 Engineered Explosives, +2 Negate, +1 Wrath of God,
-2 Cryptic Command, -2 Spell Snare, -2 Remand
Dredge
+2 Anger of the Gods, +1 Izzet Staticaster, +1 Rest in Pace, +2 Vendillion Clique, +1 Wrath of God
-1 Cryptic Command, -2 Mana Leak, -2 Remand, -2 Spell Snare
Bant Eldrazi
+2 Anger of the Gods, +1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion, +1 Wrath of God
-1 Electrolyze, -1 Remand, -2 Spell Snare
Infect
+1 Engineered Explosives, +1 Izzet Staticaster, +2 Vendillion Clique, +2 Anger of the Gods
-2 Remand, -1 Cryptic Command, -1 Nahiri, -2 Spell Snare
Jund
+1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion, +2 Vendillion Clique, +1 Wrath of God
-2 Lightning Bolt, -1 Lightning Helix
Merfolk
+1 Engineered Explosives, +2 Anger of the Gods, +1 Wrath of God
-2 Cryptic Command, -2 Remand,
Scapeshift
+1 Crumble to Dust, +2 Negate, +2 Vendilion Clique
-3 Ancestral Visions, -2 Path to Exile.
Tokens
+2 Anger of the Gods, +1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion, +1 Izzet Staticaster, +2 Negate
-1 Lightning Bolt, -1 Path to Exile. -2 Remand, -2 Spell Snare
Tron
+1 Crumble to Dust, +2 Negate, +2 Vendillion Clique
-1 Spell Snare, -1 Path to Exile, -3 Ancestral Visions
Zoo
+2 Anger of the Gods, +1 Engineered Explosives, +1 Wrath of God
-2 Remind, -2 Cryptic Comm
Some card choices.
Cryptic Command Been running Cryptic Command in Splinter Twin before it got banned and Esper Draw Go and don't see running with out it. Hard counter is nice to have mid to late game since we do not have counterspell. Drawing cards is always good and tap all creatures is used often with so many creature decks. I was running a singleton and a second Verdict for awhile but went back up to 2. 24 lands has worked well enough.
Supreme Verdict As far as main deck board wipes I feel this is the best one. Anger misses quite a bit and having to Wrath a Thrun usually only happens post board. Being Uncounterable is relevant against Merfolk and Delver.
Celestial Colonnade Play the full 4 because they get much better game 2 when some ammount of creature removal is boarded out and pretty good against all the mid range creature decks and to attack planeswalkers.
Ghost Quarter With all the creature lands around in my meta this seemed to be the 24th utility land to run. I tried Lighthouse and it was nice to dig but having an answer to creature lands is pretty important. Will have to try Kher Keep at some point.
Sideboard cards.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion Expensive at 6 mana but has been excellent in all mid range creature match ups. Also good in Control mirrors. Hard to deal with outside of Dreadbore/Maelstrom Pulse and another board wipe
Crumble to Dust Just one mostly for creature lands and Cavern of Souls. Not as effective against Tron with
Engineered Explosives really good catch all
Izzet Staticaster Really good in my meta with Token decks without an Anthem in play, Infect, Affinity.
Wrath of God Most green creature decks sideboard a Thrun or two need a way to kill it.
Would like to fit a Wear/Tear for things like Choke but not sure what to cut.
Cute things tried and rejected
Baneslayer Angel Good finisher but people caught on to it and leave in removal might be better if I didn't play it every week at FNM. Elspeth is better in some matches.
Splash Black for Kolagams Command, Lingering Souls, Sorin, and sideboard Slaugter Games. This was great for control mirrors and mid range creature decks but already good there and was worse against burn and did not seem to help against bad matches at all. Oddly most of the control players stopped showing up besides myself and couple other one running Jeskai and other running straight blue white. Slaughter Games was a bit slow at 4 mana but was good if resolved against Scapeshift. The living end player always killed me before I can cast it between Fulminators and beast with in on my lands. The black splash was awesome when I was playing up to two or three control matches a night. They stopped showing up so changed back. Also missed Cryptic Command when running 4 colors.
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage - Thought this would be good to tap creatures and combo with Nahiri to kill creatures with card draw bonus. Not as effective as I would have hoped 5 mana is alot and hard to use card draw ability.
May I ask where you usually play ?
I think Electrolyze is best in the versions that are not running main deck AV.
Prior to the AV unban many old URW players will know that our main form of "card advantage" was churning through our deck with cards like Remand, then pulling ahead with the occasional 2-for-1 with cards like Electrolyze and or Snap + *insert spell*.
If you are running AV you want to generally have a lower curve, both so you can play all the cards you draw from AV and so you can be mana efficient in the early turns to make up for lost tempo resulting from the suspended AV.
For me the slot(s) that I use for Anger of the Gods were previously Electrolyze. Both are 3 CMC so they fit the same slot on the curve, and both act as a catch up/pull ahead effect.
My next change to my deck is going up to six cantrips by adding Sleight of Hand and moving AV to the sideboard. Will see if this improves the performance of sideboard cards and consistency against super fast decks.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)For me, casting Anger on curve wasn't easy... most lists run 7-8 nonred sources in 23 lands
May I ask why so many of you seem to be having trouble with fast decks? Because you shouldn't be. And how Sleight is going to help is really beyond me. 4 Serum Visions is PLENTY of that effect for this deck and the AVs are essentially the most powerful thing we can do.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Beat Tron, GW midrange, Burn, Elves, and Kiki Chord. My only loss in both the swiss and semi-finals was vs GR Ponza. An abysmal matchup that's worse then Tron, Dredge, GR through the breech combined.
Not sure if we can ever win that matchup.
Still love spell queller. It's my MVP
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
As @HarryStyles69 mentioned it is not that I have been struggling particularly with fast decks, it is just that such a large portion of the strongest decks in the format look to kill you super quick. Affinity, Infect, Zoo, Burn, Dredge, etc, etc. We are basically at the mercy of our draws to ensure we have the right suite of situational answers to stave off death.
Sure AV on turn 1 is strong if you plan to trade resources and then reload. However what happens when you draw 2 AVs + taplands + some number of 2 CMC counters? A hand of lands a spells, keepable against many decks; however against a fast start from any of the decks I mentioned above and if any of your drawsteps are lands you probably lose.
How cards perform in various situations is just as important as just ensuring that the effect is strategically sound. For example we play plenty of counters because it is a really useful defensive/reactive effect that fits with our goal of going lategame, but permission is horrible to draw if you are behind. So for that reason we don't overload on the effect and diversify our toolbox (removal, threats, etc).
I like AV. I play AV. However I am tired of people ignoring that there is a real downside to the card. It is asinine to plan around and theorize solely under the assumption that your draws will always be smooth. 1 CMC cantrip/selection spells are the most mana efficient way to improve the consistency of the deck.
I am choosing Sleight of Hand over other more powerful/better options simply because of the casting cost. I have plenty of reasons to hold up mana on turn 2, or play a 1 CMC spell + hold up 2 mana on turn 3; adding Anticipate or Telling Time would probably just complicate things.
Also having more selection/velocity means the likelyhood of seeing sideboard cards and singleton spells, and considering some sideboard hate can swing a game that could prove as a net advantage.
I am not arguing that adding Sleight or removing AV maindeck are strictly correct choices, but I think my hypothesis has some merit and is worth trying out.
Unless you are playing in larger competitive events I personally think that everyone should be updating trying new things every week. It isn't as if changing a few slots here and there is going to change the core functionality of the deck.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I think you misread me. It wasn't GR through the breech. It was GR ponza... which is 100% worse then through the breech.
GR ponza is GR land destruction with main-decked Thruns and Storm Breath Dragons. AKA the turn two blood moon deck. GR Through the breech is a tough matchup... but I'd rather play that all day then Ponza once
I've played that matchup a few times online (GR through the breech). It is not favored... but it's not un-winnable.
EDIT: This is GR Ponza. http://www.starcitygames.com/article/32504_Daily-Digest-The-Return-of-RG-Ponza.html
I think our only chance against that match-up is to pray for a miracle...
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA