Not blowing up your own creatures is marginal, we run so few and often board out a bunch against the decks where we want wraths. And one extra mana is way less restricting than STW's timing; I'd play cmc2 swords to plowshares over condemn in a heartbeat and the jump from 1 to 2 is much bigger than 4 to 5
STW also seems like a "gotcha" card to me in that it can never be good enough to see common play since it becomes so much worse one the surprise factor is gone. It's very easy to play around
Lol. Worse when the surprise factor is gone? My LGS knows I've been playing them for four weeks now. It's still just as good as the first time I've played it. So either they respect it and play slower, which is brutal for them, or they don't respect and are welcomed to Get-Wrecked City. When they guess appropriately? Good for them, but I haven't seen that too much yet. It also helps if you know how to feign with signal and when to do so.
While I work on picking up Scalding Tarns, what is the preferred split on R/B Fetches? I can borrow 1x Scalding Tarn and I have 2x Misty Rainforests, 2x Polluted Delta, 2x Bloodstained Mire, and 3x Wooded Foothills available.
While I work on picking up Scalding Tarns, what is the preferred split on R/B Fetches? I can borrow 1x Scalding Tarn and I have 2x Misty Rainforests, 2x Polluted Delta, 2x Bloodstained Mire, and 3x Wooded Foothills available.
The Misty's and the Delta's are fine. Bloodstained Mire and Wooded Foothills can be ok but you will often run into situations that will be awkward or lose you games due to the lack of fetch targets. If you run those two lands as budget replacements for U-fetches you should make sure you increase your count of Arid Mesa and Steam Vents so that you can fetch W and U off of a Red shock-land. It will not be smooth though and you will take a more shock damage than most setting up your mana.
I recommend acquiring Flooded Strands before Scalding Tarns as they are cheaper.
The Misty's and the Delta's are fine. Bloodstained Mire and Wooded Foothills can be ok but you will often run into situations that will be awkward or lose you games due to the lack of fetch targets. If you run those two lands as budget replacements for U-fetches you should make sure you increase your count of Arid Mesa and Steam Vents so that you can fetch W and U off of a Red shock-land. It will not be smooth though and you will take a more shock damage than most setting up your mana.
I recommend acquiring Flooded Strands before Scalding Tarns as they are cheaper.
Thanks! I already have flooded strands. I was just unsure how often a red fetch is important.
Hey Nate... I've been subscribed a while and want to say cheers for all the content!
By the way... touching on Settle the Wreckage... I just got home from a modern night in which I wrecked 2 copies of Thrun, The Last Troll, and a Stormbreath Dragon with the card. This was against Junk and Ponza. Secret hidden mode is that it apparently an out to path-proof creatures! The snapcaster-wreckage threat is an absolute late game house once it's in the yard. I think playing around this card is more complicated than one might think... One game vs. Junk my opponent did admittedly not attack with Thun for 4 turns. But that also won me the game, since the first attack he made into me with thrun (after me tapping out) was into a wall of Gideon Knight Tokens.
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
How you side vs Eldrazi Taxes with a standard jeskai tempo list? Quellers and Geists are bads...
I think the Quellers are fine, you need some pressure and they are good at blocking all of the 2/1s and 2/2s. I'd like to bring in more removal, sweepers, Abrade is a great choice vs that deck, and I like Clique as you can flash it in when they activate Vial and often times take whatever they planned to vial in. It also flies over most of their dudes. It is a tough as far as creature matchups go, but you definitely have the tools. Also, I keep in Spell Snare as when they play a vial on turn 1, they will often follow it up with playing a 2cmc creature on their next turn. Snaring a Arbiter is great, and Thalia even sweeter.
Wanted to ask how will affect the deck if i play 2 cryprtic? is it more proactive? i know when cryprtic is good it is really good but what if i cut 1 for a vendilion maybe?
Also i want to ask about tinkering with manabase, how much do we need a three land keep? 2 land keeps isn't as good?
Lastly i want to ask about knightfall matchup, what do you think about it? how can i make it better?
That's all and sorry about the many questions.
Wanted to ask how will affect the deck if i play 2 cryprtic? is it more proactive? i know when cryprtic is good it is really good but what if i cut 1 for a vendilion maybe?
Also i want to ask about tinkering with manabase, how much do we need a three land keep? 2 land keeps isn't as good?
Lastly i want to ask about knightfall matchup, what do you think about it? how can i make it better?
That's all and sorry about the many questions.
What's your list? Assuming your playing a jeskai geist build, at least 3 cryptics, and pending meta, 4. I like 4 personally right now for me. Cryptic is REALLY good. Like STUPID good. V clique is better sideboard honestly than main deck.
All hands are different. Just know what the difference is between a smart keep and when to mulligan. I've kept hands with 2 lands, all the way up to 4 lands it just depends on if you know the match up you are facing and what cards are in your hand.
Is knightfall a match up you struggle with? I feel like it should be in our favor at least 60/40. We have counter spells and removal. Spell queller is great vs them and cryptic being able to counter and bounce a high powered knight or bounce the combo piece seems pretty good. Just be patient and counter what you need to. Again don't know exactly what you're playing but it should be favored for most jeskai builds.
Just started playing jeskai queller about two weeks ago- loving it so far, but when I look at a new deck, I try to figure out what is core and what is flex in the card slots. Fortunately, mtg just published rptq results from a ton of locations all around the world. What is also fortunate is there were quite a few top 8 jeskai queller finishers among those events- in total there were 8 jeskai quller lists and 3 "big jeskai lists" that made top 8's. Jeskai queller also managed to get three first place finishes out of all these events. By looking at the larger sample size I was able to come to a few more concrete conclusions about what is core and what is flex. Here are some thoughts that I've had after my own playtesting and looking at these results, keep in mind I'm not looking at the "big jeskai" lists:
CMC 1 slot is pretty self explanatory- there have been arguments about running more opt instead of serum visions, or running more than 4 cantrips in total in the deck. Out of all the top 8 finishers, only 1 substituted opt for serum visions (Michael Burnat- 8th place Berkeley). All of the other lists were just running 4 serum visions with no additional cantrips. After my own playtesting, I've felt about the same- SV is just a more powerful card that digs deeper, the instant speed of opt is not enough to make up for it. Among the 8 jeskai queller lists, there was a split of # of spell snares- with the majority running 2. All three of the first place finishers ran 2 spell snares in their lists.
CMC 2 is fairly stock among the 8 lists- 4 snapcasters for obvious reasons, there was a 50-50 split between 3 and 4 lightning helixes. 2x logic knot was the most common number with 4/8 lists. In my own testing
3 CMC
4x spell queller
0-3x geist of saint traft
0-1x vendilion clique
2-4x electrolyze
Let's start with the obvious things here- all lists were running 4x spell queller. 6/8 lists ran 2x electrolyze. I think these numbers are probably the most appropriate for the deck, though more electrolyze might be warranted in certain metas. The geists and vendilion cliques are a source of a lot of debate in the jeskai queller lists. Out of the 8 lists, there were a few different combinations of creatures: 3 of the lists ran 3 geists with no cliques, 4 lists ran 2-1 split of geist and clique. The one list that ran opt ran neither of these cards. I've playtested with the 3-0 and 2-1 splits of geist/clique, and overall felt that 2 geist, 1 clique is best. Getting stuck with multiple geists is pretty bad, and running 2 seemed like enough to see at least one every game. I think clique is probably the most cuttable card in the deck, however, it is really horrible in particular matchups like eldrazi tron.
4 CMC
3-4x Cryptic command
6/8 lists ran 4 cryptics- all three of the first place lists ran 4.
Lands
Not going to go into as much detail about the land base- I believe the three first place finishers have really figured it out- all three of them were running sulfur falls over spirebluff canal.
What I like about jeskai queller is how tight the list is. With such a potent "4-of" core (bolt, path, serum visions, snapcaster, cryptic, colonnade, and queller), the flex slots in the deck are a little bit of a meta call in terms of how you want to fill them. Most of the rest of the deck is also very efficient answers (spell snare, logic knot, electrolyze) that you are always going to want 1-2 of. The land base is also easy to use and not very punishing- a really big bonus for a three color control deck in modern.
I haven't had time to look through all of the sideboards for these decks- I did notice there was a bit of variation between them, so I'll have to make another post in the future if people are interested.
Just started playing jeskai queller about two weeks ago- loving it so far, but when I look at a new deck, I try to figure out what is core and what is flex in the card slots. (...)
I don't think anybody has many doubts about what the core of the Jeskai Queller lists is, am I wrong? I think it's pretty obvious to everyone.
By the way if you want to do mana curve calculations for some reason, neither Snapcaster Mage nor Logic Knot are really 2 CMC cards.
Well, if you've actually read this entire forum post- especially the last 10 pages or so, there is actually quite a bit of back and forth on correct number of cantrips, what the correct creature package is, whether sulfur falls or spirebluff canal is better, whether or not planeswalkers/ search for azcanta deserve to be in the deck, etc. Anyway, thanks for the snarky, low effort post you made to ***** on mine.
I only have one colonnade but have 4 wandering fumarole and was looking to supplement. I have 4 of all the other jeskai colored lands so no other constraints.
I only have one colonnade but have 4 wandering fumarole and was looking to supplement. I have 4 of all the other jeskai colored lands so no other constraints.
it's not even close as a supplement unfortunately. They are completely different cards, and colonnade is almost strictly better. Vigilance + Flying and after the attack you can spell snare, path to exile or serum visions is what helps make the card super good. Also be careful because unfortunately you are not allowed to discuss budget options here. This is for the most optimal builds and deck critiques for those builds. I'm not trying to be a douche just saving you a warning and a backlashing from the public like I got way back lol
Just started playing jeskai queller about two weeks ago- loving it so far, but when I look at a new deck, I try to figure out what is core and what is flex in the card slots. (...)
I don't think anybody has many doubts about what the core of the Jeskai Queller lists is, am I wrong? I think it's pretty obvious to everyone.
By the way if you want to do mana curve calculations for some reason, neither Snapcaster Mage nor Logic Knot are really 2 CMC cards.
..fully agree on Snapcaster, but Logic Knot is more often than not a spell one plays for UU and some cards from the grave. mana efficiency is key..
there doesn`t seem to be a consensus on 23 lands or 24. how do you guys even calculate this ?
it has to be some form of number of cantrips and CMC considerations.. anyone care to explain how this works ?
thanks !
ps. i bet there are some sweet jeskai decks at the scgtour this weekend. most played deck there i hear
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Lol. Worse when the surprise factor is gone? My LGS knows I've been playing them for four weeks now. It's still just as good as the first time I've played it. So either they respect it and play slower, which is brutal for them, or they don't respect and are welcomed to Get-Wrecked City. When they guess appropriately? Good for them, but I haven't seen that too much yet. It also helps if you know how to feign with signal and when to do so.
5c Death Shadow|Traditional Jund
BW Death and Taxes|UW Death and Taxes
(In Progress) Jeskai Geist
Simic/Sultai Infect
8 Rack
EDH
5c Bad Stuff
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
The Misty's and the Delta's are fine. Bloodstained Mire and Wooded Foothills can be ok but you will often run into situations that will be awkward or lose you games due to the lack of fetch targets. If you run those two lands as budget replacements for U-fetches you should make sure you increase your count of Arid Mesa and Steam Vents so that you can fetch W and U off of a Red shock-land. It will not be smooth though and you will take a more shock damage than most setting up your mana.
I recommend acquiring Flooded Strands before Scalding Tarns as they are cheaper.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
Thanks! I already have flooded strands. I was just unsure how often a red fetch is important.
5c Death Shadow|Traditional Jund
BW Death and Taxes|UW Death and Taxes
(In Progress) Jeskai Geist
Simic/Sultai Infect
8 Rack
EDH
5c Bad Stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxbfmdOREZM
I'll make sure this is added to the list of questions.
Hey Nate... I've been subscribed a while and want to say cheers for all the content!
By the way... touching on Settle the Wreckage... I just got home from a modern night in which I wrecked 2 copies of Thrun, The Last Troll, and a Stormbreath Dragon with the card. This was against Junk and Ponza. Secret hidden mode is that it apparently an out to path-proof creatures! The snapcaster-wreckage threat is an absolute late game house once it's in the yard. I think playing around this card is more complicated than one might think... One game vs. Junk my opponent did admittedly not attack with Thun for 4 turns. But that also won me the game, since the first attack he made into me with thrun (after me tapping out) was into a wall of Gideon Knight Tokens.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
I think the Quellers are fine, you need some pressure and they are good at blocking all of the 2/1s and 2/2s. I'd like to bring in more removal, sweepers, Abrade is a great choice vs that deck, and I like Clique as you can flash it in when they activate Vial and often times take whatever they planned to vial in. It also flies over most of their dudes. It is a tough as far as creature matchups go, but you definitely have the tools. Also, I keep in Spell Snare as when they play a vial on turn 1, they will often follow it up with playing a 2cmc creature on their next turn. Snaring a Arbiter is great, and Thalia even sweeter.
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
Also i want to ask about tinkering with manabase, how much do we need a three land keep? 2 land keeps isn't as good?
Lastly i want to ask about knightfall matchup, what do you think about it? how can i make it better?
That's all and sorry about the many questions.
What's your list? Assuming your playing a jeskai geist build, at least 3 cryptics, and pending meta, 4. I like 4 personally right now for me. Cryptic is REALLY good. Like STUPID good. V clique is better sideboard honestly than main deck.
All hands are different. Just know what the difference is between a smart keep and when to mulligan. I've kept hands with 2 lands, all the way up to 4 lands it just depends on if you know the match up you are facing and what cards are in your hand.
Is knightfall a match up you struggle with? I feel like it should be in our favor at least 60/40. We have counter spells and removal. Spell queller is great vs them and cryptic being able to counter and bounce a high powered knight or bounce the combo piece seems pretty good. Just be patient and counter what you need to. Again don't know exactly what you're playing but it should be favored for most jeskai builds.
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
1) The common "core" that each deck runs is:
1 CMC
4x serum visions
4x lightning bolt
4x Path to exile
0-2x spell snare
CMC 1 slot is pretty self explanatory- there have been arguments about running more opt instead of serum visions, or running more than 4 cantrips in total in the deck. Out of all the top 8 finishers, only 1 substituted opt for serum visions (Michael Burnat- 8th place Berkeley). All of the other lists were just running 4 serum visions with no additional cantrips. After my own playtesting, I've felt about the same- SV is just a more powerful card that digs deeper, the instant speed of opt is not enough to make up for it. Among the 8 jeskai queller lists, there was a split of # of spell snares- with the majority running 2. All three of the first place finishers ran 2 spell snares in their lists.
0 spell snares: 2
1 spell snare: 1
2 spell snares: 5
2 CMC
4x Snapcaster mage
3-4x lightning helix
1-4x logic knot
CMC 2 is fairly stock among the 8 lists- 4 snapcasters for obvious reasons, there was a 50-50 split between 3 and 4 lightning helixes. 2x logic knot was the most common number with 4/8 lists. In my own testing
3 CMC
4x spell queller
0-3x geist of saint traft
0-1x vendilion clique
2-4x electrolyze
Let's start with the obvious things here- all lists were running 4x spell queller. 6/8 lists ran 2x electrolyze. I think these numbers are probably the most appropriate for the deck, though more electrolyze might be warranted in certain metas. The geists and vendilion cliques are a source of a lot of debate in the jeskai queller lists. Out of the 8 lists, there were a few different combinations of creatures: 3 of the lists ran 3 geists with no cliques, 4 lists ran 2-1 split of geist and clique. The one list that ran opt ran neither of these cards. I've playtested with the 3-0 and 2-1 splits of geist/clique, and overall felt that 2 geist, 1 clique is best. Getting stuck with multiple geists is pretty bad, and running 2 seemed like enough to see at least one every game. I think clique is probably the most cuttable card in the deck, however, it is really horrible in particular matchups like eldrazi tron.
4 CMC
3-4x Cryptic command
6/8 lists ran 4 cryptics- all three of the first place lists ran 4.
Lands
Not going to go into as much detail about the land base- I believe the three first place finishers have really figured it out- all three of them were running sulfur falls over spirebluff canal.
4x scalding tarn
4x flooded strand
4x celestial colonnade
2x steam vents
2x hallowed fountain
1x sacred foundry
3x island
1x mountain
1x plains
2x sulfur falls
What I like about jeskai queller is how tight the list is. With such a potent "4-of" core (bolt, path, serum visions, snapcaster, cryptic, colonnade, and queller), the flex slots in the deck are a little bit of a meta call in terms of how you want to fill them. Most of the rest of the deck is also very efficient answers (spell snare, logic knot, electrolyze) that you are always going to want 1-2 of. The land base is also easy to use and not very punishing- a really big bonus for a three color control deck in modern.
I haven't had time to look through all of the sideboards for these decks- I did notice there was a bit of variation between them, so I'll have to make another post in the future if people are interested.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Well, if you've actually read this entire forum post- especially the last 10 pages or so, there is actually quite a bit of back and forth on correct number of cantrips, what the correct creature package is, whether sulfur falls or spirebluff canal is better, whether or not planeswalkers/ search for azcanta deserve to be in the deck, etc. Anyway, thanks for the snarky, low effort post you made to ***** on mine.
Would it be reasonable to replace 3 colonnades with 3 fumaroles, and the sulfur falls with glacial fortress?
it's not even close as a supplement unfortunately. They are completely different cards, and colonnade is almost strictly better. Vigilance + Flying and after the attack you can spell snare, path to exile or serum visions is what helps make the card super good. Also be careful because unfortunately you are not allowed to discuss budget options here. This is for the most optimal builds and deck critiques for those builds. I'm not trying to be a douche just saving you a warning and a backlashing from the public like I got way back lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
there doesn`t seem to be a consensus on 23 lands or 24. how do you guys even calculate this ?
it has to be some form of number of cantrips and CMC considerations.. anyone care to explain how this works ?
thanks !
ps. i bet there are some sweet jeskai decks at the scgtour this weekend. most played deck there i hear