To this point, I have experimented with Pull from Tomorrow in Draw-Go style decks. I liked it a lot more than Sphinx's Revelation. Based on the few times I've used it, when I can use it for X > 1, it's generally just been good. I can see Glimmer of Genius being really good as well but I haven't used it yet.
I would start jamming Glimmers if you've been ok with Pull. Glimmer is a very solid card.
Really? The drawback of bouncing a land in order to make it card advantage seems pretty large. Later in the game the land doesn't matter a ton but you could just revelation for more at that point. It seems closer to tormenting voice than divination.
There is the cute effect of saving a collonade from removal with it. I doubt that makes it worth running but people sure won't expect it.
I suppose it could also be a two mana sorcery speed draw two if you don't have a land drop.
It's seeming like a reasonable drawback. You fit it in when it makes sense. I honestly don't think Rev is a good card anymore. In my current flash list I was most recently playing Jace's Ingenuity and it draws 3 cards more consistently than Rev. I often found myself Rev for 2 which was spewing off a lot of value. You need 7 mana for it to start feeling better than ingenuity and that's not where I want to be. I think cards like Glimmer, Ingenuity, and the new divination are pretty nice options.
Tragic Lesson seems a fair enough card, since most of the time you'll simply discard a land or a dead card. That said, I'm not convinced it is good enough for Modern: at the very least, I would want to run Glimmer of Genius or even Supreme Will over it.
That card I really want to find some sweet synergy where we can draw two discard something that's great in the graveyard but we don't really have that. All our spells have synergy with snapcasters but that doesn't seem significant enough. I'm actually a little interested in it for esper reanimator.
Really? The drawback of bouncing a land in order to make it card advantage seems pretty large. Later in the game the land doesn't matter a ton but you could just revelation for more at that point. It seems closer to tormenting voice than divination.
There is the cute effect of saving a collonade from removal with it. I doubt that makes it worth running but people sure won't expect it.
I suppose it could also be a two mana sorcery speed draw two if you don't have a land drop.
It's seeming like a reasonable drawback. You fit it in when it makes sense. I honestly don't think Rev is a good card anymore. In my current flash list I was most recently playing Jace's Ingenuity and it draws 3 cards more consistently than Rev. I often found myself Rev for 2 which was spewing off a lot of value. You need 7 mana for it to start feeling better than ingenuity and that's not where I want to be. I think cards like Glimmer, Ingenuity, and the new divination are pretty nice options.
Tragic Lesson seems a fair enough card, since most of the time you'll simply discard a land or a dead card. That said, I'm not convinced it is good enough for Modern: at the very least, I would want to run Glimmer of Genius or even Supreme Will over it.
It's being tested in Vintage and Legacy so I'm pretty sure it's powerful enough. We won't usually be discarding any card.
Hi Guys, just wanted to drop in. I'm relatively new to modern and have played exclusively casual formats for a few years (used to play legacy). I've got all the cards to build Jeskai Flash and Jeskai Draw-Go so am playing around with some builds that I thought I might share! I will mostly be playing weekly paper events and FNM with the list.
This is a Jeskai Draw-Go list with a Midrange influence, and I'm still in the testing and learning phase of this archeatype and format, so any constructive advice is welcome!
The Isochron Scepter / Muddle the Mixture package is a legacy of my last few years of Casual play obviously, I've wanted to see if there is an archeatype in modern that will allow this to be useful and if there is any it is Jeskai Midrange or Jeskai Draw-Go. It also gives us a Main-Deck tutor for any 2cmc hate like Rest in Peace, Stony Silence, Blessed Alliance, Disenchant (which is why Disenchant is in the SB instead of Wear // Tear).
Geist of Saint Traft is in the Main-Board to give our win-cons a leg up. By running them main-deck I also hope to make Spell Queller even more potent in games 2 and 3 out of the sideboard by encouraging them to board out spot-removal.
I see a lot of potential for Narset Transcendent in a Midrange or Draw-Go shell... her +1 is repeatable CA, her -2 finally has an shell that can be used regularly for good profit. The regular access to burn spells is I think what pushes her to testable. Any wrath effect can time-walk an opponent looking to dump the rest of his hand the turn after a board wipe. Examples would include;
I am trying to play Draw-Go with faster reversability than the lists i've seen running 3 Snapcaster / 1 Gearhulk / 1 Secure the Wastes / 2 Lightning Bolt as win-cons. I'm trying to achieve this by going up to 3 bolt, 4 Snap, and adding 2 Geist and 1 Isochron Scepter, as well as running both Ajani Vengeant and Narset Transcendent, whos -2 can be used to turn burn to the face with as well as double up on CA.
Ok, let's call it Jeskai Control. I don't mind what you refer to it as. Basically I'm taking influence from U/W Control, Jeskai Midrange to create personally tuned list, and I'm hoping for some feedback on weaknesses / strengths / potential for such a list. Advice on how certain cards in the list are strong/weak in the current format... etc. Feedback on terminology i guess is an incidental bonus.
I think your list is very unfocused to be honest. You have so many one and two ofs you technically have tools for every matchup but you will not draw them the majority of the time. It doesn't work with playtesting either as you will never draw the cards you are testing. I'd suggest building around a more concise gameplan and make a more consistent deck first.
I'd start with thinking about what your gameplan is beyond just "control"; what kind of gamestate do you want to end up in? Play the cards that work towards that boardstatr and cut the ones that don't. For example; Narset is a very hardcore grind card, and not really a wincon on her own. With narast you want to end up with a gamestate of your opponent hellbent and nothing on board while you still hold 5-6 cards in hand. Geist on the other hand wants to win much earlier, making your opponent hold a bunch of cards in hand that can't stop geist and you stop or delay their answers. They're not very compatible strategy wise
I've modified the list in an attempt to eradicate the 1-of syndrome and to operate on a more 'flash' maindeck plan. Would this operate a little better do you guys reckon?
I'll continue to consider my list and muck around at FNM a few times and continue to take in any more advice you guys have, thanks Bearscape and TappingStones!
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
I'll continue to consider my list and muck around at FNM a few times and continue to take in any more advice you guys have, thanks Bearscape and TappingStones!
I really don't like 4 Mana Leak. At this point, I'd try something like Tamadas Jeskai list. I'd link it but I'm on mobile, just look up Ryoichi Tamada Jeskai.
I'll continue to consider my list and muck around at FNM a few times and continue to take in any more advice you guys have, thanks Bearscape and TappingStones!
Not a fan of dawn to dust. Spell Queller is a nice option. If you want to play Narset (an underplayed and powerful planeswaler) go up to 3-4 copies and move Ajani to the board.
2x Mana Leak
1x Logic Knot
1x Muddle the Mixture or Negate
I've seen Tamada's List and it's offshoots and I like them a lot. I just really like the idea of playing Geist of Saint Traft main-deck and Spell Queller in the side-board to trick the opponent into boarding out spot removal.
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
Alright so I might be going too deep here, but if I replace the three think twice in my build with glimmer, which I'm strongly considering because TT has been pretty okay for me, then I'm left with a bunch of energy and nothing to do with it.
This opens up the possibility of running an aether hub or two. As the only consumer of energy it functions a lot like an untapped triland. Is this too cute or is there some merit here?
It would be interesting to hear what people's definition of what "Draw Go" technically means. I'll start with mine if anyone else doesn't feel like stating their opinion.
To me, Draw Go means playing Magic while presenting countermagic at all/most times. Only tapping out when necessary/needed AND by choice only.
This means that all cards must be of the "instant" or "flash" type or any cards that can grant instant speed like Quicken. This also means that any single card that forces you into playing on your own turn, like cards of the "Sorcery" type, is not playable in true Draw Go, and in fact should be classified as a general archetype such as "Control" or "Draw Go, Tap Out Hybrid" for lack of better names.
The only way to play true Draw Go is to literally play Draw Go and that means designing the deck with limitations which is arguably weaker than playing a hybrid control deck (mix of instants and sorceries.) Having the illusion of countermagic (untapped mana) at all times is some very serious mental damage. a tactical advantage for the true Draw Go deck which is it's main advantage over a hybrid control deck. This point is generally dismissed by most, and I do not blame them, but to the true Draw Go mage, it is the most important part of playing true Draw Go.
This is why myself, for example, choose to play Think Twice instead of Serum Visions as I'm attempting to adhere to my own perception of what Draw Go actually means and designing my 75 to also adhere to this as well.
That's just a brief opinion on my views of what Draw Go means. Would be interesting to hear more opinions on the topic.
It would be interesting to hear what people's definition of what "Draw Go" technically means. I'll start with mine if anyone else doesn't feel like stating their opinion.
To me, Draw Go means playing Magic while presenting countermagic at all/most times. Only tapping out when necessary/needed AND by choice only.
I mostly agree with this, but think being overly literal -- e.g.,
This means that all cards must be of the "instant" or "flash" type or any cards that can grant instant speed like Quicken. This also means that any single card that forces you into playing on your own turn, like cards of the "Sorcery" type, is not playable in true Draw Go, and in fact should be classified as a general archetype such as "Control" or "Draw Go, Tap Out Hybrid" for lack of better names.
-- is counterproductive.
I started a longer post on this, but it's probably not really interesting to anyone and I don't care to spend the time organizing all my thoughts ( ), so I'll just say this:
In my experience and in my opinion, "draw go" control generally refers to a control deck that
Leaves mana open on most turns to represent countermagic or removal -- or, at times, an instant-speed threat
Uses sorcery-speed spells sparingly, usually limited to mana-efficient card draw/filtration, wraths, and win conditions (once control has been established)
Has a game-plan of trading off early game advantage for late-game inevitability (card advantage, difficult-to-interact-with win condition, etc.)
It's obviously on a spectrum, but I would say that this Jeskai Control list is "draw-go" control despite playing sorcery-speed cards because it has a definite goal of reaching the late game and plays mostly at instant speed. This Jeskai Queller list, despite being almost entirely instant speed, is not "draw-go" control because it does not have a resilient, inevitable end-game and instead is playing more of a Faeries aggro-tempo-control / Counter-Burn game plan. I would consider this UW Control list to also not be "draw-go" control because it plays sorcery-speed disruptive pieces (Spreading Seas) and relies more on planeswalkers to control the game, rather than purely as a win condition.
* * *
TL;DR: The need for every single non-land card to be instant speed is arbitrary, overly restrictive from a competitive standpoint (though obviously do what suits your own aesthetic to enjoy the game!), and is at odds with a common-sense interpretation of the term "draw-go control".
I think trying to adhere to the "rules" of an archetype is silly, you should play towards the strategy you intend. What I think tappingstones meant, was that the strategy 0oSunnYo0 was planning on does not work if you plan to tap out that often; it's not that you're forbidden of playing any sorcery spells at all in a drawgo shell, but playing too many sorcery spells will get in your way if that is your gameplan.
2x Mana Leak
1x Logic Knot
1x Muddle the Mixture or Negate
I've seen Tamada's List and it's offshoots and I like them a lot. I just really like the idea of playing Geist of Saint Traft main-deck and Spell Queller in the side-board to trick the opponent into boarding out spot removal.
Do you know what tricks people to board out spot removal more than playing Geist? Not playing creatures.
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I would start jamming Glimmers if you've been ok with Pull. Glimmer is a very solid card.
Tragic Lesson seems a fair enough card, since most of the time you'll simply discard a land or a dead card. That said, I'm not convinced it is good enough for Modern: at the very least, I would want to run Glimmer of Genius or even Supreme Will over it.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
It's being tested in Vintage and Legacy so I'm pretty sure it's powerful enough. We won't usually be discarding any card.
This is a Jeskai Draw-Go list with a Midrange influence, and I'm still in the testing and learning phase of this archeatype and format, so any constructive advice is welcome!
4x Path to Exile
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Serum Visions
3x Spreading Seas
2x Mana Leak
1x Logic Knot
1x Muddle the Mixture
2x Lightning Helix
4x Snapcaster Mage
1x Isochron Scepter
2x Electrolyze
2x Geist of Saint Traft
3x Cryptic Command
1x Glimmer of Genius
1x Dusk // Dawn
1x Ajani Vengeant
1x Narset Transcendent
1x Desolate Lighthouse
3x Celestial Colonnade
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Arid Mesa
3x Flodded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Steam Vents
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Spirebluff Canal
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Glacial Fortress
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Negate
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Disenchant
2x Rest in Peace
3x Spell Queller
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Engineered Explosives
Unusual main-deck inclusions are Geist of Saint Traft, Isochron Scepter, Dusk // Dawn, Narset Transcendent, and Muddle the Mixture. I also plan on running Spell Queller out of the sideboard.
The Isochron Scepter / Muddle the Mixture package is a legacy of my last few years of Casual play obviously, I've wanted to see if there is an archeatype in modern that will allow this to be useful and if there is any it is Jeskai Midrange or Jeskai Draw-Go. It also gives us a Main-Deck tutor for any 2cmc hate like Rest in Peace, Stony Silence, Blessed Alliance, Disenchant (which is why Disenchant is in the SB instead of Wear // Tear).
Geist of Saint Traft is in the Main-Board to give our win-cons a leg up. By running them main-deck I also hope to make Spell Queller even more potent in games 2 and 3 out of the sideboard by encouraging them to board out spot-removal.
I see a lot of potential for Narset Transcendent in a Midrange or Draw-Go shell... her +1 is repeatable CA, her -2 finally has an shell that can be used regularly for good profit. The regular access to burn spells is I think what pushes her to testable. Any wrath effect can time-walk an opponent looking to dump the rest of his hand the turn after a board wipe. Examples would include;
I am trying to play Draw-Go with faster reversability than the lists i've seen running 3 Snapcaster / 1 Gearhulk / 1 Secure the Wastes / 2 Lightning Bolt as win-cons. I'm trying to achieve this by going up to 3 bolt, 4 Snap, and adding 2 Geist and 1 Isochron Scepter, as well as running both Ajani Vengeant and Narset Transcendent, whos -2 can be used to turn burn to the face with as well as double up on CA.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Serum Visions
4x Mana Leak
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Lightning Helix
2x Electrolyze
3x Spell Queller
2x Geist of Saint Traft
3x Cryptic Command
1x Glimmer of Genius
1x Ajani Vengeant
1x Narset Transcendent
1x Eiganjo Castle
1x Desolate Lighthouse
3x Celestial Colonnade
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Arid Mesa
3x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Steam Vents
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Spirebluff Canal
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Glacial Fortress
2x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Dusk // Dawn
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Disenchant
2x Rest in Peace
3x Spreading Seas
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Engineered Explosives
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
I really don't like 4 Mana Leak. At this point, I'd try something like Tamadas Jeskai list. I'd link it but I'm on mobile, just look up Ryoichi Tamada Jeskai.
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
Not a fan of dawn to dust. Spell Queller is a nice option. If you want to play Narset (an underplayed and powerful planeswaler) go up to 3-4 copies and move Ajani to the board.
Yeah I first was considering a split of;
2x Mana Leak
1x Logic Knot
1x Muddle the Mixture or Negate
I've seen Tamada's List and it's offshoots and I like them a lot. I just really like the idea of playing Geist of Saint Traft main-deck and Spell Queller in the side-board to trick the opponent into boarding out spot removal.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
This opens up the possibility of running an aether hub or two. As the only consumer of energy it functions a lot like an untapped triland. Is this too cute or is there some merit here?
It would be interesting to hear what people's definition of what "Draw Go" technically means. I'll start with mine if anyone else doesn't feel like stating their opinion.
To me, Draw Go means playing Magic while presenting countermagic at all/most times. Only tapping out when necessary/needed AND by choice only.
This means that all cards must be of the "instant" or "flash" type or any cards that can grant instant speed like Quicken. This also means that any single card that forces you into playing on your own turn, like cards of the "Sorcery" type, is not playable in true Draw Go, and in fact should be classified as a general archetype such as "Control" or "Draw Go, Tap Out Hybrid" for lack of better names.
The only way to play true Draw Go is to literally play Draw Go and that means designing the deck with limitations which is arguably weaker than playing a hybrid control deck (mix of instants and sorceries.) Having the illusion of countermagic (untapped mana) at all times is some very serious mental damage. a tactical advantage for the true Draw Go deck which is it's main advantage over a hybrid control deck. This point is generally dismissed by most, and I do not blame them, but to the true Draw Go mage, it is the most important part of playing true Draw Go.
This is why myself, for example, choose to play Think Twice instead of Serum Visions as I'm attempting to adhere to my own perception of what Draw Go actually means and designing my 75 to also adhere to this as well.
That's just a brief opinion on my views of what Draw Go means. Would be interesting to hear more opinions on the topic.
I mostly agree with this, but think being overly literal -- e.g.,
-- is counterproductive.
I started a longer post on this, but it's probably not really interesting to anyone and I don't care to spend the time organizing all my thoughts ( ), so I'll just say this:
In my experience and in my opinion, "draw go" control generally refers to a control deck that
It's obviously on a spectrum, but I would say that this Jeskai Control list is "draw-go" control despite playing sorcery-speed cards because it has a definite goal of reaching the late game and plays mostly at instant speed. This Jeskai Queller list, despite being almost entirely instant speed, is not "draw-go" control because it does not have a resilient, inevitable end-game and instead is playing more of a Faeries aggro-tempo-control / Counter-Burn game plan. I would consider this UW Control list to also not be "draw-go" control because it plays sorcery-speed disruptive pieces (Spreading Seas) and relies more on planeswalkers to control the game, rather than purely as a win condition.
* * *
TL;DR: The need for every single non-land card to be instant speed is arbitrary, overly restrictive from a competitive standpoint (though obviously do what suits your own aesthetic to enjoy the game!), and is at odds with a common-sense interpretation of the term "draw-go control".
Do you know what tricks people to board out spot removal more than playing Geist? Not playing creatures.