After fooling around with Grixis Shadow (with less than stellar results), I am planning on taking a Jeskai deck to the upcoming SCG Invitational (and the Open should I scrub out on Day 1). I'm looking at something similar to Tamada's list from GP Kobe. It's not as end-game oriented as the lists that are being discussed here, but it gets described as Jeskai Control and this thread is more lively than the UWR Midrange one. Here's the initial list:
I'm fan of having most everything as a four-of, makes the deck feel consistent. I also really like the number of cards that cycle. This deck likes to see cards AND hit land drops. I do wonder about how often the hand gets clogged with 4 of both Cryptic Command and Electrolyze. I'm also curious if having another threat would help. Maybe in the form of mainboard Clique, a couple of Geist of Saint Traft, or possibly even Secure the Wastes. A card that seems to be seeing less play lately is Spell Snare. Likely due to it not doing much against Shadow, Dredge, or Eldrazi Tron. Those decks still have some targets though, so maybe it would be better than mainboard Negate?
I'm leaning towards Relic over RiP in the SB right now because Relic can cycle to keep the cards flowing. That feels important since this version of the deck lacks any knockout card advantage engines like AV, Rev, or Planeswalkers. I think it may be a better option against Grixis as well for the times when their hand is heavy on the Shadow plan as opposed to Delve threats. I've seen some lists go heavy on Spreading Seas for big mana decks, but Ceremonius Rejection seems pretty good against Eldrazi Tron (unless they have Cavern!) and it pulls duty against Affinity as well. Also, would any of you consider bringing in Seas against Grixis Shadow since they are so limited in the number of mana sources?
Thanks in advance for any advice you guys have, and I'm happy to see the draw-go lists performing well online again!
You should cut an Electrolyze for something more useful like a V Clique.
Negate is definitely better than Spell Snare.
Rest in Peace is far superior to Relic. The cycle is irrelevant on Relic the majority of the time and RIP will win games far more often than Relic will.
Spreading Seas is fine, but it doesn't do a ton against Death's Shadow. I'd consider it overboarding. I prefer to stick to Ceremonious Rejection because it stops the actual cards rather than delaying the opponent for a while.
A card that seems to be seeing less play lately is Spell Snare. Likely due to it not doing much against Shadow, Dredge, or Eldrazi Tron. Those decks still have some targets though, so maybe it would be better than mainboard Negate?
You do have a lot of late game counters so I could see the Negate changed to Spell Snare being a fine possibility. Or you could run a Spell Pierce instead as it is better protection against turn 1 discard, Vial, or RG Ponza decks. It does drop off a bit later in the game, but Pierce is known for winning counter wars.
With testing so far, I've been very please with 4 Snapcaster Mage and 3 Cryptic Command. Because I run more cards with low CMC, our beloved mage is more often required to flashback cards. At the same time, my counterspells suite feels strong with 8 : 3 Cryptic seems the sweet spot in my list because it's very mana consumming and I wouldn't want to commit to 4 (I love the 3/3 split with Logic Knot, an all-star so far).
My Draw-Go is more coutner-burn oriented than most list floating at the moment, so I'm more going down ''the old way'' in closing out games. I've decided to drop 1 Sphinx's Revelation and move a hard counter to the side for 2 Think Twice : it's a great card advantage engine and works wonders so far. 1 Rev in the side seems good to against some slower matchups (midrange / control) like UW Control, Jund DS, etc.
Finally, 2 Sweepers main and 2 in the side works wonders. Same thing with 2 GQ and 2 Molten Rain in the side.
So what are you asking? You are saying all your choices "work wonders". I would say Think Twice is close to unplayable. The same with Ghost Quarters in the sideboard.
With testing so far, I've been very please with 4 Snapcaster Mage and 3 Cryptic Command. Because I run more cards with low CMC, our beloved mage is more often required to flashback cards. At the same time, my counterspells suite feels strong with 8 : 3 Cryptic seems the sweet spot in my list because it's very mana consumming and I wouldn't want to commit to 4 (I love the 3/3 split with Logic Knot, an all-star so far).
My Draw-Go is more coutner-burn oriented than most list floating at the moment, so I'm more going down ''the old way'' in closing out games. I've decided to drop 1 Sphinx's Revelation and move a hard counter to the side for 2 Think Twice : it's a great card advantage engine and works wonders so far. 1 Rev in the side seems good to against some slower matchups (midrange / control) like UW Control, Jund DS, etc.
Finally, 2 Sweepers main and 2 in the side works wonders. Same thing with 2 GQ and 2 Molten Rain in the side.
So what are you asking? You are saying all your choices "work wonders". I would say Think Twice is close to unplayable. The same with Ghost Quarters in the sideboard.
What you guys prefer : 3 Snap / 4 Cryptic or 4 Snap / 3 Cryptic?
Ghost quarter is mainboard (waste of a sideboard slot). Think Twice is very playable, I've been pleased with it yesterday : it's a great source of card advantage, but 3 might be too much. I'm on 2 now and it helped me get through UW Control yesterday when I was in top deck mode
With testing so far, I've been very please with 4 Snapcaster Mage and 3 Cryptic Command. Because I run more cards with low CMC, our beloved mage is more often required to flashback cards. At the same time, my counterspells suite feels strong with 8 : 3 Cryptic seems the sweet spot in my list because it's very mana consumming and I wouldn't want to commit to 4 (I love the 3/3 split with Logic Knot, an all-star so far).
My Draw-Go is more coutner-burn oriented than most list floating at the moment, so I'm more going down ''the old way'' in closing out games. I've decided to drop 1 Sphinx's Revelation and move a hard counter to the side for 2 Think Twice : it's a great card advantage engine and works wonders so far. 1 Rev in the side seems good to against some slower matchups (midrange / control) like UW Control, Jund DS, etc.
Finally, 2 Sweepers main and 2 in the side works wonders. Same thing with 2 GQ and 2 Molten Rain in the side.
So what are you asking? You are saying all your choices "work wonders". I would say Think Twice is close to unplayable. The same with Ghost Quarters in the sideboard.
What you guys prefer : 3 Snap / 4 Cryptic or 4 Snap / 3 Cryptic?
Ghost quarter is mainboard (waste of a sideboard slot). Think Twice is very playable, I've been pleased with it yesterday : it's a great source of card advantage, but 3 might be too much. I'm on 2 now and it helped me get through UW Control yesterday when I was in top deck mode
4 snap 3 cryptic usually feels pretty good. I think 4 cryptics is often hard to play. Too many dead cards in the early game.
After fooling around with Grixis Shadow (with less than stellar results), I am planning on taking a Jeskai deck to the upcoming SCG Invitational (and the Open should I scrub out on Day 1). I'm looking at something similar to Tamada's list from GP Kobe. It's not as end-game oriented as the lists that are being discussed here, but it gets described as Jeskai Control and this thread is more lively than the UWR Midrange one. Here's the initial list:
I'm fan of having most everything as a four-of, makes the deck feel consistent. I also really like the number of cards that cycle. This deck likes to see cards AND hit land drops. I do wonder about how often the hand gets clogged with 4 of both Cryptic Command and Electrolyze. I'm also curious if having another threat would help. Maybe in the form of mainboard Clique, a couple of Geist of Saint Traft, or possibly even Secure the Wastes. A card that seems to be seeing less play lately is Spell Snare. Likely due to it not doing much against Shadow, Dredge, or Eldrazi Tron. Those decks still have some targets though, so maybe it would be better than mainboard Negate?
I'm leaning towards Relic over RiP in the SB right now because Relic can cycle to keep the cards flowing. That feels important since this version of the deck lacks any knockout card advantage engines like AV, Rev, or Planeswalkers. I think it may be a better option against Grixis as well for the times when their hand is heavy on the Shadow plan as opposed to Delve threats. I've seen some lists go heavy on Spreading Seas for big mana decks, but Ceremonius Rejection seems pretty good against Eldrazi Tron (unless they have Cavern!) and it pulls duty against Affinity as well. Also, would any of you consider bringing in Seas against Grixis Shadow since they are so limited in the number of mana sources?
Thanks in advance for any advice you guys have, and I'm happy to see the draw-go lists performing well online again!
I'm really low on spell snare these days. I don't recommend any. Don't cut electrolyze. That card is amazing and I can't advocate cutting them for garbage like clique. I've been playing tamadas list for a month and a half and been iterating on it quite a bit. I've tried clique all over and it keeps being terrible. I was really hesitant to cut it since I always play clique in whatever blue deck I'm playing but it was the right move. It opened up slots for more impactful cards for some of our crappy matchups.
The major change I've made so far is adding in three geists. The deck felt really good at getting the opponent to stumble and flounder for a minute but wasn't always good at closing the game out before they got back on their feet. Geist has solved that problem. I audibled to three geists the night before gp vegas and they came up huge for me. They give the deck an avenue to cheese bad matchups by just slamming a geist and hoping you can race then down with cryptic taps and burn. Speaking of cryptic geist makes your cryptics much better. You no longer worry about getting clogged up with cryptics since you can just use them to tap draw their team and get in for six.
As for spreading seas and Tron hate I've been much happier with molten rain plus ceremonious rejection. Rejection is good in several tough matchups. So is molten rain. I always try and snag a cavern with rains over other lands. Rain also contributes to the cheesing horrible matchups plan. Sometimes you have a lot of useless cards against a deck and rain gives you the chance to mana screw them and maybe do enough damage to get them into burn range before they do the thing you can't beat. I can't stress enough how important having a fast kill plan for "oh *****" matchups is.
After fooling around with Grixis Shadow (with less than stellar results), I am planning on taking a Jeskai deck to the upcoming SCG Invitational (and the Open should I scrub out on Day 1). I'm looking at something similar to Tamada's list from GP Kobe. It's not as end-game oriented as the lists that are being discussed here, but it gets described as Jeskai Control and this thread is more lively than the UWR Midrange one. Here's the initial list:
I'm fan of having most everything as a four-of, makes the deck feel consistent. I also really like the number of cards that cycle. This deck likes to see cards AND hit land drops. I do wonder about how often the hand gets clogged with 4 of both Cryptic Command and Electrolyze. I'm also curious if having another threat would help. Maybe in the form of mainboard Clique, a couple of Geist of Saint Traft, or possibly even Secure the Wastes. A card that seems to be seeing less play lately is Spell Snare. Likely due to it not doing much against Shadow, Dredge, or Eldrazi Tron. Those decks still have some targets though, so maybe it would be better than mainboard Negate?
I'm leaning towards Relic over RiP in the SB right now because Relic can cycle to keep the cards flowing. That feels important since this version of the deck lacks any knockout card advantage engines like AV, Rev, or Planeswalkers. I think it may be a better option against Grixis as well for the times when their hand is heavy on the Shadow plan as opposed to Delve threats. I've seen some lists go heavy on Spreading Seas for big mana decks, but Ceremonius Rejection seems pretty good against Eldrazi Tron (unless they have Cavern!) and it pulls duty against Affinity as well. Also, would any of you consider bringing in Seas against Grixis Shadow since they are so limited in the number of mana sources?
Thanks in advance for any advice you guys have, and I'm happy to see the draw-go lists performing well online again!
I'm really low on spell snare these days. I don't recommend any. Don't cut electrolyze. That card is amazing and I can't advocate cutting them for garbage like clique. I've been playing tamadas list for a month and a half and been iterating on it quite a bit. I've tried clique all over and it keeps being terrible. I was really hesitant to cut it since I always play clique in whatever blue deck I'm playing but it was the right move. It opened up slots for more impactful cards for some of our crappy matchups.
The major change I've made so far is adding in three geists. The deck felt really good at getting the opponent to stumble and flounder for a minute but wasn't always good at closing the game out before they got back on their feet. Geist has solved that problem. I audibled to three geists the night before gp vegas and they came up huge for me. They give the deck an avenue to cheese bad matchups by just slamming a geist and hoping you can race then down with cryptic taps and burn. Speaking of cryptic geist makes your cryptics much better. You no longer worry about getting clogged up with cryptics since you can just use them to tap draw their team and get in for six.
Really? I find Vendilion Clique is often a much better way to fight the Tron/ Titanshift decks than Geist/ Molten Rain
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Tappingstones are you still playing Nahiri and what's your opinion on the new Wafo style American?
I'm a bit busy writing my third novel the last couple weeks and haven't been playing much. But I keep up with ideas, meta, and such.
I play Nahiri but I also think Jeskai flash can do some work in this meta. I also posted a midrange burn/Geist list a while back and that list has some really nice draws plus being very fun to play.
I don't particularly care about what Wapo-Tafo is doing these days. I find in recent years he jams the same cards over and over again and if he gets a good result every so often the fanboys copy it.
He and I have some fundamental differences of opinion on playing control in the current modern environment.
I think Think Twice is a very weak card in modern. I don't find myself losing because I ran out of cards very often. I usually lose because I didn't draw my early interaction.
I don't like modern decks that gear toward the long game. Therefore I don't think paying 5 mana to draw two cards is very good. I think cards like Jace's Ingenuity and Rev are better most of the time.
The reason the Nahiri deck is so consistent is that it just needs to disrupt a little and land the win con. You can also switch gears and use your Nahiris as removal in a grindy match-up.
But I have a Jeskai flash list I've been playing around with that runs playsets of Snaps and Spell Quellers that I'd love to try in a big event. Alas, I don't have any of those coming up.
Tappingstones are you still playing Nahiri and what's your opinion on the new Wafo style American?
I'm a bit busy writing my third novel the last couple weeks and haven't been playing much. But I keep up with ideas, meta, and such.
I play Nahiri but I also think Jeskai flash can do some work in this meta. I also posted a midrange burn/Geist list a while back and that list has some really nice draws plus being very fun to play.
I don't particularly care about what Wapo-Tafo is doing these days. I find in recent years he jams the same cards over and over again and if he gets a good result every so often the fanboys copy it.
He and I have some fundamental differences of opinion on playing control in the current modern environment.
I think Think Twice is a very weak card in modern. I don't find myself losing because I ran out of cards very often. I usually lose because I didn't draw my early interaction.
I don't like modern decks that gear toward the long game. Therefore I don't think paying 5 mana to draw two cards is very good. I think cards like Jace's Ingenuity and Rev are better most of the time.
The reason the Nahiri deck is so consistent is that it just needs to disrupt a little and land the win con. You can also switch gears and use your Nahiris as removal in a grindy match-up.
But I have a Jeskai flash list I've been playing around with that runs playsets of Snaps and Spell Quellers that I'd love to try in a big event. Alas, I don't have any of those coming up.
Tappingstones are you still playing Nahiri and what's your opinion on the new Wafo style American?
I think Think Twice is a very weak card in modern. I don't find myself losing because I ran out of cards very often. I usually lose because I didn't draw my early interaction.
I don't like modern decks that gear toward the long game. Therefore I don't think paying 5 mana to draw two cards is very good. I think cards like Jace's Ingenuity and Rev are better most of the time.
The time where Think Twice was viable is long gone. I've jammed with it a few times on and off but it's a standard card that people are holding on to for no valid reason.
When it comes to Cryptics I'm not going to play 4. It's too clunky early game. 2-3 is a good number. I'm on 2 because I have a few other 4 mana spells (being Ajani, Venser, Cast Out) that are situationally better and can easily be sideboarded out. I'm fond of Cryptics and I found myself sideboarding poorly because I wanted to play Cryptics every game. The solution was cutting one for cards which are better in certain situations that can be easily boarded out when they're bad.
The buzz at the moment is that Cryptic is very good right now, and this is correct. But it's not so good that you want to damage your early game. Early game is hard for this deck, whereas lategame is always good (except against Tron decks). My strategy is similar to the sideboard strategy of putting in cards that help your weak matchups. Cryptic is a win more card past the second one.
Instead of Think Twice, wouldn't you prefer playing Thought Scour? It fuels Logic Knot, and milling cards can give a better toolbox for Snapcaster Mage.
Instead of Think Twice, wouldn't you prefer playing Thought Scour? It fuels Logic Knot, and milling cards can give a better toolbox for Snapcaster Mage.
No, I prefer AV or Serum Visions in those slots and like to make sure that my burn count is high enough. Logic Knot isn't always played in the deck (in fact more often then not it's not included). If I was playing a draw-Go style deck I would try with two logic knots and 9 fetches.
I've been heavy into UW Control for a couple years now and decided I miss playing bolt so I started messing around with Jeskai Geist. After an extremely successful couple weeks at FNM (top 4'd six 5 round FNMs in a row at a very competitive store) with it I figured I'd post my list and some quick thoughts.
Tron and Eldrazi Tron are pretty big around here so I swapped out the usual Electrolyze with Spreading Seas. Spreading Seas always felt great in UW control and it feels even better here. Turn 2 Spreading Seas on the play against a 3 color deck and then slamming a turn 3 Geist a lot of the time can be enough to just straight up win the game. I could see 3 being the correct number and +1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar but right now in my meta I need the 4 seas. Gideon is also incredible in this deck and I can't even count how many games he just wins on his own. I was on 2 and only went down to 1 to make room for Seas. Highly highly recommended in a Geist list. Spell Queller has also been one of my favorite cards in this deck. I bring it in against almost anything because it's just that good. People tend to side out removal game 2 because of Geist so Queller can sneak through and really turn games around. I love it, I wish I could play it mb but turning on all the mb removal in the format doesn't feel right. UWR feels really strong in the format at the moment in my opinion and Geist feels like he really has his place right now.
Has anyone tried 4x AV and 2-3x As Foretold to take advantage of AV at all stages of the game? Seems like a good way to draw into butt-loads of burn in the mid/late game to give the reach needed to kill your opponent. Just curious.
Think Twice is a more inefficient mix of both Serum Visions and Ancestral Vision in one card. Serum Visions hits your land drops for U. Ancestral Visions gains you card advantage for U. Think Twice does both of these things for 1U + 2U respectively.
TT is much more inefficient on the mana and does a sub-optimal role at what SV and AV provide the deck. Even though TT would technically save room by not needing to play both SV and AV, the fact that it's worse in every way at what SV ada AV do means in most cases it's not worth playing unless for budget reasons.
There is a slight exception. The only deck that wants Think Twice over SV/AV is a deck that aims to play purely at Instant speed and basically never taps out on their own turn. TT works better with the strategy of always passing with mana up to always represent counterspells. It's just the card type "Instant" that makes TT the go to draw spell in the Wafo style of decks as there just isn't a better instant speed draw than TT in the format.
There are also fringe arguments for playing Think Twice too:
1. Is better vs discard. But most Jund pilots I've played against fear Ancestral Vision more than they do TT.
2. It won't ever get countered or Ricochet Traped. A tactical move. Control players just won't counter TT but AV does draw counters out.
3. Splitting up the payments means you can always use your mana if you have nothing else to do.
TL;DR
Play Think Twice if you want to play an all out Wafo-Tapa draw go deck where the card type "Instant" matters just a bit more, but even then, you'd probably be better off with SV and AV in all honesty due to the nature of the Modern format.
Play AV/SV if you want to play the most competitive draw spells in the Modern Format.
I'm a bit busy writing my third novel the last couple weeks and haven't been playing much. But I keep up with ideas, meta, and such.
I play Nahiri but I also think Jeskai flash can do some work in this meta. I also posted a midrange burn/Geist list a while back and that list has some really nice draws plus being very fun to play.
I don't particularly care about what Wapo-Tafo is doing these days. I find in recent years he jams the same cards over and over again and if he gets a good result every so often the fanboys copy it.
He and I have some fundamental differences of opinion on playing control in the current modern environment.
I think Think Twice is a very weak card in modern. I don't find myself losing because I ran out of cards very often. I usually lose because I didn't draw my early interaction.
I don't like modern decks that gear toward the long game. Therefore I don't think paying 5 mana to draw two cards is very good. I think cards like Jace's Ingenuity and Rev are better most of the time.
The reason the Nahiri deck is so consistent is that it just needs to disrupt a little and land the win con. You can also switch gears and use your Nahiris as removal in a grindy match-up.
But I have a Jeskai flash list I've been playing around with that runs playsets of Snaps and Spell Quellers that I'd love to try in a big event. Alas, I don't have any of those coming up.
Would you mind posting your current Nahiri list? I'm very new to modern but have picked up most of the cards for the deck (missing cryptics and a couple of sideboard cards).
I've played two FNMs with the deck and the matchups I struggled against were burn and a grixis goryos/through the breach deck. Against burn I think I should of mulligunned to more life gain (helix & timely reinforcements) and against the through the breach deck I made the mistake of casting serum visions turn one and lost my rest in peace to a thought seize.
I'm planning on taking the deck to Birmingham GP (not sure whether or not i'll be playing in the main event).
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After fooling around with Grixis Shadow (with less than stellar results), I am planning on taking a Jeskai deck to the upcoming SCG Invitational (and the Open should I scrub out on Day 1). I'm looking at something similar to Tamada's list from GP Kobe. It's not as end-game oriented as the lists that are being discussed here, but it gets described as Jeskai Control and this thread is more lively than the UWR Midrange one. Here's the initial list:
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spell Queller
Spells
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
3 Logic Knot
1 Negate
4 Electrolyze
4 Cryptic Command
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Spirebluff Canal
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Wear // Tear
1 Dispel
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Celestial Purge
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ceremonius Rejection
1 Runed Halo
1 Stony Silence
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
I'm fan of having most everything as a four-of, makes the deck feel consistent. I also really like the number of cards that cycle. This deck likes to see cards AND hit land drops. I do wonder about how often the hand gets clogged with 4 of both Cryptic Command and Electrolyze. I'm also curious if having another threat would help. Maybe in the form of mainboard Clique, a couple of Geist of Saint Traft, or possibly even Secure the Wastes. A card that seems to be seeing less play lately is Spell Snare. Likely due to it not doing much against Shadow, Dredge, or Eldrazi Tron. Those decks still have some targets though, so maybe it would be better than mainboard Negate?
I'm leaning towards Relic over RiP in the SB right now because Relic can cycle to keep the cards flowing. That feels important since this version of the deck lacks any knockout card advantage engines like AV, Rev, or Planeswalkers. I think it may be a better option against Grixis as well for the times when their hand is heavy on the Shadow plan as opposed to Delve threats. I've seen some lists go heavy on Spreading Seas for big mana decks, but Ceremonius Rejection seems pretty good against Eldrazi Tron (unless they have Cavern!) and it pulls duty against Affinity as well. Also, would any of you consider bringing in Seas against Grixis Shadow since they are so limited in the number of mana sources?
Thanks in advance for any advice you guys have, and I'm happy to see the draw-go lists performing well online again!
Negate is definitely better than Spell Snare.
Rest in Peace is far superior to Relic. The cycle is irrelevant on Relic the majority of the time and RIP will win games far more often than Relic will.
Spreading Seas is fine, but it doesn't do a ton against Death's Shadow. I'd consider it overboarding. I prefer to stick to Ceremonious Rejection because it stops the actual cards rather than delaying the opponent for a while.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
You do have a lot of late game counters so I could see the Negate changed to Spell Snare being a fine possibility. Or you could run a Spell Pierce instead as it is better protection against turn 1 discard, Vial, or RG Ponza decks. It does drop off a bit later in the game, but Pierce is known for winning counter wars.
It hits a lot of stuff and is very efficient (2 mana vs 1), but it's a narrow counter. Like Mana Leak. Having that jammed in your hand is pretty bad.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
So what are you asking? You are saying all your choices "work wonders". I would say Think Twice is close to unplayable. The same with Ghost Quarters in the sideboard.
What you guys prefer : 3 Snap / 4 Cryptic or 4 Snap / 3 Cryptic?
Ghost quarter is mainboard (waste of a sideboard slot). Think Twice is very playable, I've been pleased with it yesterday : it's a great source of card advantage, but 3 might be too much. I'm on 2 now and it helped me get through UW Control yesterday when I was in top deck mode
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
4 snap 3 cryptic usually feels pretty good. I think 4 cryptics is often hard to play. Too many dead cards in the early game.
I'm really low on spell snare these days. I don't recommend any. Don't cut electrolyze. That card is amazing and I can't advocate cutting them for garbage like clique. I've been playing tamadas list for a month and a half and been iterating on it quite a bit. I've tried clique all over and it keeps being terrible. I was really hesitant to cut it since I always play clique in whatever blue deck I'm playing but it was the right move. It opened up slots for more impactful cards for some of our crappy matchups.
The major change I've made so far is adding in three geists. The deck felt really good at getting the opponent to stumble and flounder for a minute but wasn't always good at closing the game out before they got back on their feet. Geist has solved that problem. I audibled to three geists the night before gp vegas and they came up huge for me. They give the deck an avenue to cheese bad matchups by just slamming a geist and hoping you can race then down with cryptic taps and burn. Speaking of cryptic geist makes your cryptics much better. You no longer worry about getting clogged up with cryptics since you can just use them to tap draw their team and get in for six.
As for spreading seas and Tron hate I've been much happier with molten rain plus ceremonious rejection. Rejection is good in several tough matchups. So is molten rain. I always try and snag a cavern with rains over other lands. Rain also contributes to the cheesing horrible matchups plan. Sometimes you have a lot of useless cards against a deck and rain gives you the chance to mana screw them and maybe do enough damage to get them into burn range before they do the thing you can't beat. I can't stress enough how important having a fast kill plan for "oh *****" matchups is.
Really? I find Vendilion Clique is often a much better way to fight the Tron/ Titanshift decks than Geist/ Molten Rain
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I'm a bit busy writing my third novel the last couple weeks and haven't been playing much. But I keep up with ideas, meta, and such.
I play Nahiri but I also think Jeskai flash can do some work in this meta. I also posted a midrange burn/Geist list a while back and that list has some really nice draws plus being very fun to play.
I don't particularly care about what Wapo-Tafo is doing these days. I find in recent years he jams the same cards over and over again and if he gets a good result every so often the fanboys copy it.
He and I have some fundamental differences of opinion on playing control in the current modern environment.
I think Think Twice is a very weak card in modern. I don't find myself losing because I ran out of cards very often. I usually lose because I didn't draw my early interaction.
I don't like modern decks that gear toward the long game. Therefore I don't think paying 5 mana to draw two cards is very good. I think cards like Jace's Ingenuity and Rev are better most of the time.
The reason the Nahiri deck is so consistent is that it just needs to disrupt a little and land the win con. You can also switch gears and use your Nahiris as removal in a grindy match-up.
But I have a Jeskai flash list I've been playing around with that runs playsets of Snaps and Spell Quellers that I'd love to try in a big event. Alas, I don't have any of those coming up.
Do you mind posting your Nahiri list?
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
The time where Think Twice was viable is long gone. I've jammed with it a few times on and off but it's a standard card that people are holding on to for no valid reason.
When it comes to Cryptics I'm not going to play 4. It's too clunky early game. 2-3 is a good number. I'm on 2 because I have a few other 4 mana spells (being Ajani, Venser, Cast Out) that are situationally better and can easily be sideboarded out. I'm fond of Cryptics and I found myself sideboarding poorly because I wanted to play Cryptics every game. The solution was cutting one for cards which are better in certain situations that can be easily boarded out when they're bad.
The buzz at the moment is that Cryptic is very good right now, and this is correct. But it's not so good that you want to damage your early game. Early game is hard for this deck, whereas lategame is always good (except against Tron decks). My strategy is similar to the sideboard strategy of putting in cards that help your weak matchups. Cryptic is a win more card past the second one.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
No, I prefer AV or Serum Visions in those slots and like to make sure that my burn count is high enough. Logic Knot isn't always played in the deck (in fact more often then not it's not included). If I was playing a draw-Go style deck I would try with two logic knots and 9 fetches.
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Spreading Seas
4 Serum Visions
4 Cryptic Command
3 Lightning Helix
4 Logic Knot
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Spirebluff Canal
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Eiganjo Castle
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Spell Queller
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Counterflux
1 Stony Silence
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pithing Needle
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Anger of the Gods
I've been heavy into UW Control for a couple years now and decided I miss playing bolt so I started messing around with Jeskai Geist. After an extremely successful couple weeks at FNM (top 4'd six 5 round FNMs in a row at a very competitive store) with it I figured I'd post my list and some quick thoughts.
Tron and Eldrazi Tron are pretty big around here so I swapped out the usual Electrolyze with Spreading Seas. Spreading Seas always felt great in UW control and it feels even better here. Turn 2 Spreading Seas on the play against a 3 color deck and then slamming a turn 3 Geist a lot of the time can be enough to just straight up win the game. I could see 3 being the correct number and +1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar but right now in my meta I need the 4 seas. Gideon is also incredible in this deck and I can't even count how many games he just wins on his own. I was on 2 and only went down to 1 to make room for Seas. Highly highly recommended in a Geist list. Spell Queller has also been one of my favorite cards in this deck. I bring it in against almost anything because it's just that good. People tend to side out removal game 2 because of Geist so Queller can sneak through and really turn games around. I love it, I wish I could play it mb but turning on all the mb removal in the format doesn't feel right. UWR feels really strong in the format at the moment in my opinion and Geist feels like he really has his place right now.
TT is much more inefficient on the mana and does a sub-optimal role at what SV and AV provide the deck. Even though TT would technically save room by not needing to play both SV and AV, the fact that it's worse in every way at what SV ada AV do means in most cases it's not worth playing unless for budget reasons.
There is a slight exception. The only deck that wants Think Twice over SV/AV is a deck that aims to play purely at Instant speed and basically never taps out on their own turn. TT works better with the strategy of always passing with mana up to always represent counterspells. It's just the card type "Instant" that makes TT the go to draw spell in the Wafo style of decks as there just isn't a better instant speed draw than TT in the format.
There are also fringe arguments for playing Think Twice too:
1. Is better vs discard. But most Jund pilots I've played against fear Ancestral Vision more than they do TT.
2. It won't ever get countered or Ricochet Traped. A tactical move. Control players just won't counter TT but AV does draw counters out.
3. Splitting up the payments means you can always use your mana if you have nothing else to do.
TL;DR
Play Think Twice if you want to play an all out Wafo-Tapa draw go deck where the card type "Instant" matters just a bit more, but even then, you'd probably be better off with SV and AV in all honesty due to the nature of the Modern format.
Play AV/SV if you want to play the most competitive draw spells in the Modern Format.
Would you mind posting your current Nahiri list? I'm very new to modern but have picked up most of the cards for the deck (missing cryptics and a couple of sideboard cards).
I've played two FNMs with the deck and the matchups I struggled against were burn and a grixis goryos/through the breach deck. Against burn I think I should of mulligunned to more life gain (helix & timely reinforcements) and against the through the breach deck I made the mistake of casting serum visions turn one and lost my rest in peace to a thought seize.
I'm planning on taking the deck to Birmingham GP (not sure whether or not i'll be playing in the main event).