Thanks for the reports! Regarding Ghost Quarters in the side, I've found that they are invaluable against Tron. Dig heavily until I hit one of those and a life from the loam. Then apply a fair bit of pressure while keeping them off of Tron. Takes some luck, and a lot of reminding myself that my primary goal is keeping them off tron and not setting up the win for next turn, but they make Tron feel winnable in a post-GGT world.
The sideboarding guide on the primer is awesome! Question though, since it says collective brutality is a good swap for mom hug, if I'm boarding in 2 CB would I board out 2 CR, or 1 CR and something else? Same question for if I'm boarding in 2 Thoughtseize and 1/2 natural state, do I take out 2 narcomeobas or try to spread out?
The sideboarding guide on the primer is awesome! Question though, since it says collective brutality is a good swap for mom hug, if I'm boarding in 2 CB would I board out 2 CR, or 1 CR and something else? Same question for if I'm boarding in 2 Thoughtseize and 1/2 natural state, do I take out 2 narcomeobas or try to spread out?
I usually board out 2 mom hug. If its against a deck that I need to interact with (infect, old zoo, ect.) then I am not racing. If its using snap extraction, its got counters to worry about and mom hug is bad too.
Another 5-0, this time in Competitive League and making my match win streak 16-0 on mtgo
2-0 versus Tron
2-0 versus Jund
2-1 versus Expertise Reanimator
2-1 versus Ad Nauseam
2-1 versus Eldrazi Tron
I realized this league that my black mana sources are grossly inadequate for the sideboard discard spells, but I really liked Duress in matches 3 and 4.
I saw Relic of Progenitus against the two Tron decks and 2 Scavenging Ooze against Jund, but there was no other hate the entire league. It feels good to Dredge right now!!
Ok I'm totally new to trying to play/manage dredge (recovering Burn player), so thank you for that new primer. It's incredibly thorough.
If I don't have Golgari Thugs, do I have other options? Greater Mossdog doesn't seem good enough, what about Shambling Shell in a Bridge package?
{edit - and is the bridge package really even relevant with a moderate-high percentage of creature decks in the format?}
I saw recent discussion about artifact/enchantment responses to GY hate. With this manabase, has anyone tried Destructive Revelry? I ask only because I saw a lot of 2cmc answers being bandied about, but I didn't see this one offered as an option.
Has anyone considered using any delve cards in the side to counter opponents who use extraction? I know it sounds counter intuitive for the premise of the deck, but a timely become immense/murderous cut that costs us a couple cards seems like a better trade than seeing the entire set of amalgams or ghasts get ripped. Or are those cards dependent on too many factors to help?
--------------
Another new question, as I was digging out my Lightning Axes, I ran across Geistflame. I assume 6 mana to cast & copy a conflagrate is probably too much mana, but I still feel like I should ask if it is viable.
The sideboarding guide on the primer is awesome! Question though, since it says collective brutality is a good swap for mom hug, if I'm boarding in 2 CB would I board out 2 CR, or 1 CR and something else? Same question for if I'm boarding in 2 Thoughtseize and 1/2 natural state, do I take out 2 narcomeobas or try to spread out?
I usually board out 2 mom hug. If its against a deck that I need to interact with (infect, old zoo, ect.) then I am not racing. If its using snap extraction, its got counters to worry about and mom hug is bad too.
Taking out 2 narcs is really though. I dont think id ever do it. It messes with the engine. Ive cut 1 amalgam and a blood ghast before and that was pushing
Congrats on everyone with their wins! Were proving the deck is still real!
As far as not having thugs, no you need it. Its job is dredge 4. You cant replace that.
I find thoughtsieze to be the best anti-hate on the play, since it hits everything except leyline. As for disrupting shoal, all you can pitch to it is a narcomoeba or another shoal, or izzet charms if you're going the blue route. Seems like it just dilutes the gameplan and relies on a situation that you don't want to happen often (having a narc in hand). On the draw against rip, i just hope they don't have it on t2 or mulled hard to it and kept a poor hand. If you have a claim, you can just claim the rip and hope to get the engine going again. I've found it best just to forgo nature's claims and take the losses that come from leylines and t2 rips. Affinity doesn't board to beat shatterstorm and stony silence, so why should we?
Ive dipped down to 19 lands and 2 mana is just too much for hate. Claim or state are fine. You really should be able to answer and dredge back to back or answer on the draw.
Right now Im on 3 seize and 2 brutalities as my main answer. Tron eldrazi and combo are previelent enough to need that. It feels right. 2 axe, 2 claim and 1 decay to back it up.
As was said. We fold to grave hate sometimes. Its not worth over flexing the board to lose. Seize and decay hit 90% of the hate we worry about, claim and axe to me suppliment those plans
Since we're not expecting leyline nearly as much these days, switching to Natural State over Nature's Claim is a definite possibility. Those 4 life points matter a lot for an aggro deck
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Modern
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
I'm up to 5 discard in the board as well, since it seems like thats our best overall answer with these combo and ramp decks taking up the meta. added in a ghost quarter in the side per ya'lls suggestion. I don't think it will come into play at my local, I have one tron player... but I suppose it is 1 out of 13 chance, since were small. I've gone down in bogs. I seem to be only siding one in now a days, and will only get punished if I hit that one other dredge deck that shows up sometimes. The forest has saved my ass alot vs aggro, so I cut a basic mountain, something I dont love, but will do to test the 19 lands. As long as I can get 2 lands per game I should be good to go.
Had a terrible fmn. But, I suppose I should still write it out a bit, since loses learn about the deck too.
Round 1 vs Azban
Game 1 I win through normal beats. My threats simply out raced him.
In 2 seize, 2 axe 1 decay, out 2 neonate, 1 ghast, 2 darkblast
Game was a bit longer, but conflag on voice tokens, was easy with mana dorks, so it was just more of a tempo game.
2-0
Round 2 vs Jund
Heres where it went down hill. I lost game 1 from being mana flooded. We talked, he still felt on the back end, and if I had 2 more turns it woulda been a win for me. I literally drew around 12 lands. I had two looting, 2 neonate, and it just never drew a single dredge.
Game 2, I had to battle through an ooze which I discarded, and he k commanded back, and an anger. I didnt quite get there. I lost the game because I got greedy and used my decay on a goyf early, had I left that for the return of ooze and just narced blocked Id have pulled through.
0-2
Scred Red
Snow covered mountain. GG. God this match feels like burn playing against soul sisters. What is it 90% un favored? bla. I got turn 1 reliced, which I forced him to pop by holding my looting into turn 2, so I could loot away a ghast and amalgam and put a land out. I then proceeded to bait and minimize my losses against another relic and 2 angers, and be mooned out of loam. I managed to even get him to 5... 5! And I'm sitting here after my last ghast got graved going "I have a devil... thats 4 damage... I'm out of recursion, out of gas. No narcs left, no amaglams left. I have only one ghast in the yard, and I used my 2 dakmors. I litterally need to top deck a land by natural draw. So I draw, and its an imp. GG.
In: 2 grudge, 2 nature's claim, 3 sieze, 1 decay.
Overboard? Yeah. But I needed outs. And for what its worth, he doesnt hit grave hate. Crazy, but he gets the beats curve instead. But I never get my 3rd land, and I just cant do it. GG.
At this point I go into round 4 trying not to tilt.
0-2
Round 4 vs... eh? Junk?
It was a really mixed up jamble of a deck. But he resolved an early Kambal, Consul of Allocation, as I'm trying to find dredge power, so I'm screwed. It was like a bad domain zoo, but still had a clock. Kambal did something like 8 damage on his own, so I stumpled. Felt pretty bad.
I bait out a turn 1 relic, but cant shimmy past a turn 2 ooze. I tried, and almost did it. I made a key mistake using my brutality way too early. I could have killed off the turn 2 ooze if I waited, I fail to hit the conflag and its over. I ended up going all in at one point, because his team was getting bigger, making a hope he makes a mistake, but he doesnt. damn.
0-2.
1-4 Overall:
Felt aweful. Had to leave. Its not even that I played bad or got hit with hate. I just drew like crap the entire event. It happens I suppose. Shoulda been more aggressive will mulls. That jund match is like the first time I ever lost to jund, and the skred is an auto lose. I played some sample games online after, and won 3 straight matches. Just bad draws, deck fell apart. I dont think its the decks fault, just hit hard with verance today.
Have you guys tried using 2 life from the loam instead of 3? cons and pros? thanks
If you rollback a few pages, we went to three Life from the more typical at the time. Thought was needing lands thrown into GY. However, that discussion was pre ban. Maybe it's worth having again. I was at 2x for a long time, even though others had gone to 3x.
Felt aweful. Had to leave. Its not even that I played bad or got hit with hate. I just drew like crap the entire event. It happens I suppose. Shoulda been more aggressive will mulls. That jund match is like the first time I ever lost to jund, and the skred is an auto lose. I played some sample games online after, and won 3 straight matches. Just bad draws, deck fell apart. I dont think its the decks fault, just hit hard with verance today.
I feel you here, Lantern.
Small turnout on Friday so only played 3 rounds. One game I got the nut draw (3 Lootings, plenty of dredge) so my opponent scooped on T2 when I dumped 13 power on the board. Then I paid for it by having to mull into oblivion for the next 4 games and only ever seeing 1 of my sideboard cards in that span.
I agree, the deck is still good and powerful, but sometimes it just loses to itself.
Looking back, how would you approach skred? I'm buying in (after playing online all throughout last meta) because the meta is full of easy matchups, but there is one skred player. I'd assume just have a lot of claim/states and seizes, but what else is there to do?
Although there are maindeck Relics and Angers, the Skred matchup isn't that bad. Thoughtseize is a good card in the sideboard, and so is Golgari Charm. Skred has the same chance of just failing to find a foil to the dredge strategy that Cheerios or Bogles has. It has no draw engine and is desperately trying to find 1 card that is a four-of before you drop a significant amount of power on the board and then desperately trying to find a different 1 out of 4-of (Anger) after you drop the creatures out. The Relics can easily come too late or be irrelevant, especially on the draw.
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Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
I usually board out 2 mom hug. If its against a deck that I need to interact with (infect, old zoo, ect.) then I am not racing. If its using snap extraction, its got counters to worry about and mom hug is bad too.
2 mom hug.
2-0 versus Tron
2-0 versus Jund
2-1 versus Expertise Reanimator
2-1 versus Ad Nauseam
2-1 versus Eldrazi Tron
I realized this league that my black mana sources are grossly inadequate for the sideboard discard spells, but I really liked Duress in matches 3 and 4.
I saw Relic of Progenitus against the two Tron decks and 2 Scavenging Ooze against Jund, but there was no other hate the entire league. It feels good to Dredge right now!!
If I don't have Golgari Thugs, do I have other options? Greater Mossdog doesn't seem good enough, what about Shambling Shell in a Bridge package?
{edit - and is the bridge package really even relevant with a moderate-high percentage of creature decks in the format?}
I saw recent discussion about artifact/enchantment responses to GY hate. With this manabase, has anyone tried Destructive Revelry? I ask only because I saw a lot of 2cmc answers being bandied about, but I didn't see this one offered as an option.
Has anyone considered using any delve cards in the side to counter opponents who use extraction? I know it sounds counter intuitive for the premise of the deck, but a timely become immense/murderous cut that costs us a couple cards seems like a better trade than seeing the entire set of amalgams or ghasts get ripped. Or are those cards dependent on too many factors to help?
--------------
Another new question, as I was digging out my Lightning Axes, I ran across Geistflame. I assume 6 mana to cast & copy a conflagrate is probably too much mana, but I still feel like I should ask if it is viable.
Modern! Burn (RW, RWG, RBG , RB ... what can I say, I like variety in my BBQ )
Legacy! Burn RW
EDH! Uril the Miststalker RWG
I'm guessing it's the same for Narc?
Congrats on everyone with their wins! Were proving the deck is still real!
As far as not having thugs, no you need it. Its job is dredge 4. You cant replace that.
Right now Im on 3 seize and 2 brutalities as my main answer. Tron eldrazi and combo are previelent enough to need that. It feels right. 2 axe, 2 claim and 1 decay to back it up.
As was said. We fold to grave hate sometimes. Its not worth over flexing the board to lose. Seize and decay hit 90% of the hate we worry about, claim and axe to me suppliment those plans
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
4 Bloodghast
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Narcomoeba
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
1 Scourge Devil
Spells:
3 Conflagrate
2 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
3 Life from the Loam
4 Cathartic Reunion
Lands (19)
2 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Dakmor Salvage
1 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
1 Steam Vents
4 Copperline Gorge
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Lightning Axe
2 Nature's Claim
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Collective Brutality
3 Thoughtseize
I'm up to 5 discard in the board as well, since it seems like thats our best overall answer with these combo and ramp decks taking up the meta. added in a ghost quarter in the side per ya'lls suggestion. I don't think it will come into play at my local, I have one tron player... but I suppose it is 1 out of 13 chance, since were small. I've gone down in bogs. I seem to be only siding one in now a days, and will only get punished if I hit that one other dredge deck that shows up sometimes. The forest has saved my ass alot vs aggro, so I cut a basic mountain, something I dont love, but will do to test the 19 lands. As long as I can get 2 lands per game I should be good to go.
Round 1 vs Azban
Game 1 I win through normal beats. My threats simply out raced him.
In 2 seize, 2 axe 1 decay, out 2 neonate, 1 ghast, 2 darkblast
Game was a bit longer, but conflag on voice tokens, was easy with mana dorks, so it was just more of a tempo game.
2-0
Round 2 vs Jund
Heres where it went down hill. I lost game 1 from being mana flooded. We talked, he still felt on the back end, and if I had 2 more turns it woulda been a win for me. I literally drew around 12 lands. I had two looting, 2 neonate, and it just never drew a single dredge.
Game 2, I had to battle through an ooze which I discarded, and he k commanded back, and an anger. I didnt quite get there. I lost the game because I got greedy and used my decay on a goyf early, had I left that for the return of ooze and just narced blocked Id have pulled through.
0-2
Scred Red
Snow covered mountain. GG. God this match feels like burn playing against soul sisters. What is it 90% un favored? bla. I got turn 1 reliced, which I forced him to pop by holding my looting into turn 2, so I could loot away a ghast and amalgam and put a land out. I then proceeded to bait and minimize my losses against another relic and 2 angers, and be mooned out of loam. I managed to even get him to 5... 5! And I'm sitting here after my last ghast got graved going "I have a devil... thats 4 damage... I'm out of recursion, out of gas. No narcs left, no amaglams left. I have only one ghast in the yard, and I used my 2 dakmors. I litterally need to top deck a land by natural draw. So I draw, and its an imp. GG.
In: 2 grudge, 2 nature's claim, 3 sieze, 1 decay.
Overboard? Yeah. But I needed outs. And for what its worth, he doesnt hit grave hate. Crazy, but he gets the beats curve instead. But I never get my 3rd land, and I just cant do it. GG.
At this point I go into round 4 trying not to tilt.
0-2
Round 4 vs... eh? Junk?
It was a really mixed up jamble of a deck. But he resolved an early Kambal, Consul of Allocation, as I'm trying to find dredge power, so I'm screwed. It was like a bad domain zoo, but still had a clock. Kambal did something like 8 damage on his own, so I stumpled. Felt pretty bad.
Round 2: board in 2 axe, 2 brutality, 1 gnaw, 1 decay.
I bait out a turn 1 relic, but cant shimmy past a turn 2 ooze. I tried, and almost did it. I made a key mistake using my brutality way too early. I could have killed off the turn 2 ooze if I waited, I fail to hit the conflag and its over. I ended up going all in at one point, because his team was getting bigger, making a hope he makes a mistake, but he doesnt. damn.
0-2.
1-4 Overall:
Felt aweful. Had to leave. Its not even that I played bad or got hit with hate. I just drew like crap the entire event. It happens I suppose. Shoulda been more aggressive will mulls. That jund match is like the first time I ever lost to jund, and the skred is an auto lose. I played some sample games online after, and won 3 straight matches. Just bad draws, deck fell apart. I dont think its the decks fault, just hit hard with verance today.
If you rollback a few pages, we went to three Life from the more typical at the time. Thought was needing lands thrown into GY. However, that discussion was pre ban. Maybe it's worth having again. I was at 2x for a long time, even though others had gone to 3x.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
I feel you here, Lantern.
Small turnout on Friday so only played 3 rounds. One game I got the nut draw (3 Lootings, plenty of dredge) so my opponent scooped on T2 when I dumped 13 power on the board. Then I paid for it by having to mull into oblivion for the next 4 games and only ever seeing 1 of my sideboard cards in that span.
I agree, the deck is still good and powerful, but sometimes it just loses to itself.
Modern:
Dredge | Restore Balance | Titanshift
My [360][Unpowered][Modern-Frame] Cube
GB Graveyard(Rip Copter)Modern:
Dredge RBGU (AND WE BACK)
Suicide BlooUR(WotC Why )Living End RBG
Bloo MoonUR
Legacy:
Aluren BGU