1. Darkblast just flatout wrecks some decks. Birds, Hierachs, Arbor Elf, Dark Confidant, Snapcaster, Viscera Seers Vendillion Clique, Infect Dudes, Affinity Dudes and if you really need to you can kill x/2's
Except for Infect and Affinity manlands, all those can be dealt with brutality and often with additional advantage (life gain, discard and/or self discard outlet)
2. It is a dredge card. Not the best but decent. So it helps your plan and its available whenever you need it.
[...]
Just my two cents. Feels good to have 12 enablers, 12 dredgers and 12 payoff cards (No dakmor salvage doesnt count. dont lie to yourselves:p )
My tow cents says that the deck has 8 dredge enablers. IMO having "dredge" tacked on the card don't make a card a enabler and loam and blast are as bad as dakmor as enablers. For me they are payoffs, something to take advantage after a few dredges, not something to start/keep the engine.
Darkblast every turn is just really helpful with our overall win percentages. Darkblast is a frequent board-out card, but there are also games where Darkblast wins all on its own.
For me this is the definition of Sideboard card, a card that is essential vs. a small number of matchups, but is not vs. everything else. Recurring it is not relevant except on matches filled with X/1 targets that are actually problems for the deck (such as the infect and affinity). I used to have it main, and it really never ever helped outside of the few matches where it is exceptional, I never ever dredged for it outside of the said matches.
you can hit your own bloodghast with your own darkblast then play a land to recur your graveyard amalgams incase you don't have other means to recur them.
Nice trick, but more cute than a real plan and not where I want to be with maindeck cards.
I'm split. I've had nothing but good results with my build, and I honestly AM really happy with main deck haunted dead/darkblast.
[...]
But until I notice otherwise, toolboxing has been huge for me.
This is in fact the reason I don’t like Darkblast, I like the toolboxing approach. And for that I think brutality is better. Brutallity is not as good as darkblast at killing dorks, infect and affinity dudes, but it can do it at a reasonable efficiency. It can also be a discard outlet, hand disruption and small sustain. Besides killing small dudes, Blast dredge 3, and let’s be honest, this dredge is rarely relevant.
I keep 2 Darkblast on the side for Infect and Affinity, but I don't see myself bringing it for anything else because it is a card that I very rarely want to see outside of those matches.
I think in the debate between maindecking Darkblast or Collective Brutality, It really depends on what you're expecting. I personally have Darkblast main. I rather the extra dredger game 1 as I think you're trying to goldfish G1 and then trying to beat the hate G2&3, but I can see why people would think the opposite.
Darkblast is good against:
Infect (can win on it's own here)
Affinity (Very very good here, though conflagrate is better)
Elves (snag a key piece)
Death and Taxes (rly good here)
Eldrazi (you wouldn't expect it, but they have X/1s)
Company (if that's even a deck anymore)
Abzan (Lingering Souls and bob sometimes)
Delver (Unflipped delver, Snappy, and most importantly, Young Pyromancer)
Brutality is good against:
Burn (backbreaking here)
Suicide Zoo
Regular Zoo
Affinity (though not as good as blast)
Infect (it's awesome here but not as good as blast)
Merfolk (though haven't tested this one enough)
Valakut decks (hand hate, lifegain)
Delver decks (Hits snappy and delver, their deck is mostly instants or sorceries. I think blast might be better in this one though)
Company (better than blast here, but they're both good)
Jund (Bob and they have tons of annoying instants and sorceries)
Living End (Catching the cascade spell could make the difference, blast kinda does nothing here)
1. Darkblast just flatout wrecks some decks. Birds, Hierachs, Arbor Elf, Dark Confidant, Snapcaster, Viscera Seers Vendillion Clique, Infect Dudes, Affinity Dudes and if you really need to you can kill x/2's
Except for Infect and Affinity manlands, all those can be dealt with brutality and often with additional advantage (life gain, discard and/or self discard outlet)
2. It is a dredge card. Not the best but decent. So it helps your plan and its available whenever you need it.
[...]
Just my two cents. Feels good to have 12 enablers, 12 dredgers and 12 payoff cards (No dakmor salvage doesnt count. dont lie to yourselves:p )
My tow cents says that the deck has 8 dredge enablers. IMO having "dredge" tacked on the card don't make a card a enabler and loam and blast are as bad as dakmor as enablers. For me they are payoffs, something to take advantage after a few dredges, not something to start/keep the engine.
Darkblast every turn is just really helpful with our overall win percentages. Darkblast is a frequent board-out card, but there are also games where Darkblast wins all on its own.
For me this is the definition of Sideboard card, a card that is essential vs. a small number of matchups, but is not vs. everything else. Recurring it is not relevant except on matches filled with X/1 targets that are actually problems for the deck (such as the infect and affinity). I used to have it main, and it really never ever helped outside of the few matches where it is exceptional, I never ever dredged for it outside of the said matches.
you can hit your own bloodghast with your own darkblast then play a land to recur your graveyard amalgams incase you don't have other means to recur them.
Nice trick, but more cute than a real plan and not where I want to be with maindeck cards.
I'm split. I've had nothing but good results with my build, and I honestly AM really happy with main deck haunted dead/darkblast.
[...]
But until I notice otherwise, toolboxing has been huge for me.
This is in fact the reason I don’t like Darkblast, I like the toolboxing approach. And for that I think brutality is better. Brutallity is not as good as darkblast at killing dorks, infect and affinity dudes, but it can do it at a reasonable efficiency. It can also be a discard outlet, hand disruption and small sustain. Besides killing small dudes, Blast dredge 3, and let’s be honest, this dredge is rarely relevant.
I keep 2 Darkblast on the side for Infect and Affinity, but I don't see myself bringing it for anything else because it is a card that I very rarely want to see outside of those matches.
Part of toolboxing is getting the tool from the box when you need it. Brutality doesnt tool. Its either in the opener or not. Im really ok with having a "dredge 3" card that is either "dredge three if your not hitting well" as well as "win the game against 2 tier 1 decks" Thats my point of it.
Surprised to see this. I know it can exist, but its either slow now, or fast but with non of its old relislance. So sure, lets see what it can do. I got a slowish hand, but I'm sure its still faster than theirs. I manage to turn 1 and flash back looting turn 3, so any speed I didnt have, I had on turn 3/4 going for me. He turn 4s a titan, which is fine, since I have conflag for it. He plays an explosives for 4... which is weird. I conflag the titan easily enough, and win off rally the next turn. Note: I had 2 cards in hand when I rallied, so yes, rally killed, conflag couldnt do it. One of the pros of rally here.
In: 1 decay, 1 seize, 2 grudge, 1 natural state Out: rally darkblast, haunted and mom hug I dunno really what I'm doing here... this deck isnt main stream. I think relic is probably the grave hate for this? Cage certainly isnt. Ooze? Maybe?
I seized him and saw a crypt an amulet, and made him take the amulet. I dont really care about his slow hand with a crypt, rather take his combo peice. Im sure that slows him down so much I can just normal attack him to death. Infact, thats what I decided to do. 2 neonates follow, and a hardcasted amalgamate. I force the crypt pop, and Im free to dredge now. He hive minds, but thats fine. I actually have the mana to pay for pacts. so theres that. Conflaged for the end, but he foged. Cheeky. Still all he had was a hivemind and a pact... and I happen to be able to pay for it. Worth noting... I was making my lands able to pay for it from turn 1, when I saw the hive mind. You need B, UU, and GG, which blood crypt, copperline, steam vents, and loamed 1 of mana confluance does.
1-0
Round 2 vs Tron
2 trolls, 1 neonate, 1 mom hug? Oh yeah. its freakin over. Lets go to game 2. No seriously, I just really cant lose there. Seriously. He ugined and I still won. And thats why kids, you leave ghasts in the yard sometimes.
In: seize, natural state, 2 grudge, out: Darkblast, haunted dead, and a mom hug.
Natrual tron, plus a relic. Whoo.
Game 3, We both mulled to 3. Cept Im still fine... cause I got 2 land drops AND they were fetches AND a loam. Woo! So guess who loamed until turn freakin 10? ME! Thats who. And you know what that lets you do? Conflag for freakin 12. Get on my level dredgers!
No that game was super stupid. Extra dumb.
2-0
Round 3 vs Storm... with mad cap?
He mulls 2 5 and I keep a slower hand... but its game one. Well see. I draw a looting turn 2, which enables a ghast-amalagmate. Draw another looting, to really push the value, even if Im still a half a turn behind... He bring to light mad caps! Crazy, But I cast stink weed. So theres no attacking. Basically a stall, but one ends with me getting conflag, so its soon gg.
I side in the 4 discards, and 1 natural state. probably should brought in the grudges but I forgot. Took out 3 mom hugs and a rally.
Ended taking a hand that was farrrr too slow, because I'm dumb. lol. Into light into empty the warrens
-1 natural state +1 grudge.
I had 3 faithless looting in hand, so away I went. But again, kept some ghasts in the yard with a fetch, just in case. He Ravenous Traped me on turn 3 via blowing alot of his storm cards for bring to light, which I fetched a forest to get all the ghasts out, andddd then either no land or no mad cap in his hand, so it was game.
3-0
Round 4 vs Elves
I got a fast hand with looting and mom hug. He speeds out elves but I have conflag, and wipe him out, even though He wants to start being super neck beard and agrue with me the rest of the game...
In: 1 explosive, 3 bruality Out: Dead, 2 mom hug
Open a hand with conflag and brutality, but only 1 hand... gotta risk it. Made it, but saddly not a black source. But I draw a dakmor. this still fits my plan. Kill off his mana dork and lord, and pass. Should take him time to recover. Based on the shaman of the pack, hes got nothing. Off to the races then with brutality in hand. Btw, turns out ezuri cant regen from -2/-2! From here the game is a sinking ship. Hes got a few tokens, but hes not doing anything really, and my army hes blocking is making his chances at winning worse and worse. Then there was a dark blast.
This game was over from the conflag.
4-0
Overall:
Solid. Each and every time I needed conflag or loam, it was there. I enabled all the time, even when I had that stupid mull to 3. Everything did what I wanted it to do. Side worked flawlessly. I kept slow hands and lost... but I made that mistake, not the deck.
I tested out cutting 1 Darkblast 1 Cathartic Reunion for 2 Shriekhorns and I wasn't overly impressed. Although it's a one drop and it seemed like going up to 10 one drops would allow the deck more consistency and less need for mulligans, but I found I couldn't really keep hands where it was my only 1 drop.
For example, if you open with a hand of 2 lands, Shriekhorn, Cathartic Reunion, and 3 other cards but none are large Dredgers. If you keep that hand and Shriekhorn finds you either Stinkweed or GGT (49% of the time it will happen), it looks really good and you're likely to have a very explosive turn 2. But if you don't it could be a one of those games where the deck just fails.
Shriekhorn is at its best when all your big Dredgers are in the library, so the chance of milling them of the top is the highest, Insolent Neonate and Cathartic Reunion want them in your hand so it can dredge them and Faithless Looting want them in your hand or top of library.
I don't think I can construct a 7 card opening hand that consists of just Shriekhorn as my one drop and keep it, so I don't really think it's increasing the consistency of the deck with regards to mulligans.
What I do think Shriekhorn is pretty good at is:
1. It's ability to increase the consistency of the engine once the engine is going. When you dredge Life from the Loam and hit the Amalgam but not the Narcomoeba, you can mill another 2 and possibly hit a Bloodghast or Narcomoeba to keep it going. I don't think the engine so to speak is that fragile that it needs a card like Shriekhorn to keep it going.
2. It does have the ability to turn on the engine completely by milling into Dredgers when you have no other way of getting Dredgers into your graveyard but to that I say you should probably mulligan those hands.
I then tested just a singleton Shriekhorn and put the Cathartic Reunion back in. I tested a bunch of games where I included the Shriekhorn in my opening hand and drew 6 other cards, but I wasn't keeping hands with just Shriekhorn as a way to get Dredgers in the yard so it's hard to say if Darkblast would have been better.
The last complaint I had about Shriekhorn was it added just another layer of decision making to what I find a pretty intensive triggered ability deck. Knowing to activate Shriekhorn in response to the Narcomoeba Trigger or waiting until the endstep until the Prized Amalgam triggers to possibly get an additional Prized Amalgam, it was just too much. I already have to keep track of when to play my lands and whether I should play my land post combat or post combat, or holding up a fetch land for my opponents 2nd main. etc. All of these triggers and it's easy to forget the Shriekhorn.
Bleh! Awful FNM, 1-3 lost to U-Tron, Bant Eldrazi and Grixis Delver. Deck just hated me tonight. Story of my night, turn 1 neonate and sack, discard grave troll, dredge 6, and hit neonate mom hugs and lands. Turn 2 faithless looting draw two narcomebas discard grave troll, faithless looting again, dredge 6 more lands and no other dredgers. I love dredge, but sometimes the deck just goes splat.
Brutallity is also good vs. eldrazi (against the same x/1 cratures you mention and it can take out path and stirring, and ocasionally kills them under a worship) and elves (against their creatures and nagging a company)
So, in the open right now CVM is playing rainbow lands and the Unearth team-pump creature. Are we sure this version is just inferior?
One or two persons playing version B over A doesn't means that the version B is better. There is the variance and corner cases that might make better for version B.
Now we have a lot of data and results that says that it is less reliable than the other option.
Brutallity is also good vs. eldrazi (against the same x/1 cratures you mention and it can take out path and stirring, and ocasionally kills them under a worship) and elves (against their creatures and nagging a company)
Good point. I'll add it to the list. I still prefer darkblast main tho.
How are you liking the Thoughtseize in SB? I also don't understand the EE. I run a third Conflag side, it seems like those are for the same MUs (tho EE does remove a cage or a RIP or whatnot, but we have other hate for that)
Also when boarding, I noticed you were taking out momhug a lot. That looks weird to me, as any time you draw momhug it seems like your percentage to win goes up just because of how explosive the card can be. Just wondering .
Most of the 1 ofs are there because they are great in some matches and bad in others. Brutality hits alot of the same stuff I want seize for, but in some cases seize just does it better. For example storm. Seize takes out pyromancers ascention too. But against sucide zoo, seize is bad.
In alot of ways brutality, decay and grudge/claim are the overall better cards, but seize and explosives are the narrower better cards.
In short. Id rather run 3 brutality and a explosive vs infect and 3 brutality and sieze is better vs storm. 3 brutality are doing the bulk of the work, but the one off Im adding is better than brutality. The brutality lets me have versatility and a bit of an edge over everything, but the one ofs let me bring more beef in to ensure the edge.
As far as mom hug goes, yeah its powerful. But again... looting is the real glue for the deck. I side out neonate often when its correct too. Neonates go out when lightning axes come in. Neonates discard, so do axes. Same with mom hug and bruality. If you ever had a mom hug and brutality in hand, youll see what Im saying, it sucks.
Most of the 1 ofs are there because they are great in some matches and bad in others. Brutality hits alot of the same stuff I want seize for, but in some cases seize just does it better. For example storm. Seize takes out pyromancers ascention too. But against sucide zoo, seize is bad.
In alot of ways brutality, decay and grudge/claim are the overall better cards, but seize and explosives are the narrower better cards.
In short. Id rather run 3 brutality and a explosive vs infect and 3 brutality and sieze is better vs storm. 3 brutality are doing the bulk of the work, but the one off Im adding is better than brutality. The brutality lets me have versatility and a bit of an edge over everything, but the one ofs let me bring more beef in to ensure the edge.
As far as mom hug goes, yeah its powerful. But again... looting is the real glue for the deck. I side out neonate often when its correct too. Neonates go out when lightning axes come in. Neonates discard, so do axes. Same with mom hug and bruality. If you ever had a mom hug and brutality in hand, youll see what Im saying, it sucks.
Thanks for the response! I understand your points, and I've never thought about the Axe for Neonate Brutality for Hug similiarities and what they could mean for swapping them when boarding. Good to know
I think you might be right though. The extra conflag in the side probably IS better than explosives... I have lantern at my lgs, so I'm hesitant to cut it... Stupid lantern the deck not lantern the user. I think that might be the only matchup I perfer the explosives. Maybe affinity because of etched. But overall, having access to the 3rd conflag is probably a good call, its "better" vs aggro and I can get it outta the yard. replaces rally easily in those matchups where it would come in.
I'd still keep rally in the main. It just fits better in the game plan of turn 4 loam-> conflag (4 mana), turn 5 reload conflag with loam, rally in the mean time (5 mana). turn 6, refire with a fully backed conflag (potential loam, loam conflag, 6 mana).
Rally's good. just gotta know when its better... and its usually better at ending the game around a counterspell, mid combat messed up math, back up conflag kill after first misses... Theres alot of uses for it.
I think you might be right though. The extra conflag in the side probably IS better than explosives... I have lantern at my lgs, so I'm hesitant to cut it... Stupid lantern the deck not lantern the user. I think that might be the only matchup I perfer the explosives. Maybe affinity because of etched. But overall, having access to the 3rd conflag is probably a good call, its "better" vs aggro and I can get it outta the yard. replaces rally easily in those matchups where it would come in.
I'd still keep rally in the main. It just fits better in the game plan of turn 4 loam-> conflag (4 mana), turn 5 reload conflag with loam, rally in the mean time (5 mana). turn 6, refire with a fully backed conflag (potential loam, loam conflag, 6 mana).
Rally's good. just gotta know when its better... and its usually better at ending the game around a counterspell, mid combat messed up math, back up conflag kill after first misses... Theres alot of uses for it.
Yea I just did a whole lot of testing against Death and Taxes, a MU that should be a bit unfavorable, and Rally was spectacular, as was your idea of swapping neonates for axes and brutalities for hugs (I tried going up to 3 on brutalities as well, worked really well). I won every match 2-1, tho variance did strike every now and then and a lot of them were really close. The SB plan worked really well. Here's my current list after testing:
I'm trying the mana confluence out for a way to cast rally and narc/amalgam if need be. That slot is usually a steam vents for me.
May I ask why you don't run any bojuka bog's in the board?
As a side note, the person I was testing with said the more flex slots we run for lands (confluence, vents) the more burn will be able to punish us for it. So that was part of the reason I went up to 3 brutalities and stayed at 2 gnaws. As far as I'm concered, that should make us favored in the burn MU. Game 1 is 50/50, and then G2+3 if any of those 5 cards is cast even once, we're favored to win.
Got first Today at my store for modern Saturdays. I'm too tired to put my exact build so ill state the little differences, I run 20 lands, with three conflagrate and 3 lifes. I also have 4 mom hugs in the main along with one haunted dead. Just for today I decided to move my darkblast from the main to the side and put in rally for the meta.
Here are my matches:
Game 1 Vs Bant Eldrazi:
Game one was rough, since my early dredgers didn't get me there until he had an elder deep fiend on the battle field. but I was able to chump block and bash in by going wide. Game 2 he had graffdiggers on turn one and I hade no sideboard cards but my hand was extremely good for dredging so that's why I kept. I was slaughtered that game. Game 3 he kept a hand without hate and I was just able to dredge really well.
Record 1-0-0
Game 2 versus Abzan:
Game one was just too fast, he even showed me how dead his hand was with his discard card spells. Game 2 I never saw any hate so I was able to go wide again and finished it off with rally even though he had lingering souls. it was ridiculous.
Record 2-0-0
Game 3 versus mono white Humans:
This was an aggro deck but thanks to Mom I was able to dredge so much in game one. I out aggrod him and ended up playing rally to win game one.Game 2 was a night mare , he graffdigger's cage turn one and Rest in piece turn two. I was forced to hardcast everything and he eventually out aggroed me but he took a long time to do it since he kept the hard hate hand lol. Game 3 he did the same thing but he had almost no creatures so I was able to hard cast stuff and bash in. However we went to time so we ended up drawing.
Record 2-0-1
Game 4 versus Mono Blue Tron:
Game 1 was ridiculous, I ddredged so much and his hand was super dead since he runs nothing but counter spells lol. So I just ended the game by turn four. Game 2 he mulliganed to 5 and kept a one lander, an island lol. And he never drew another land again. It surprisingly took me a few turns to beat him with a single bloodghast due tot the fact that I never dredged a narcomoeba to trigger my three amalgams. In the end I just conflagrate him for the remaining damage.
Record 3-0-1
I ended up taking first after tie breakers. The mono white humans who I tied with had the same record but I had the beater breakers so I ended up winning.
This deck can be really unfair at times lol. I look at my opponents faces and notice that they calculate all the damage they'll be taking lol. On another note, I absolutely love this deck. Youll definitely have those moments where you don't dredge well at all but overall this deck performs really well.
My overall record with this deck, since ive only been playing it for a month, is 13-1-3. which isn't bad at all but I don't like drawing. lol
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Currently playing:
Modern: Affinity, Mono-White Hatebears.
Legacy: Death and Taxes, Mono Red Sneak Attack, Dragon Stompy.
Saw this at the stream (SCGMKE) but do our opponent need to announce the enter the battlefiend exile trigger at Rest in Peace? And what will happen if they didn't announce it?
Saw this at the stream (SCGMKE) but do our opponent need to announce the enter the battlefiend exile trigger at Rest in Peace? And what will happen if they didn't announce it?
Its not a may effect, so I assume a judge is called, graves are exiled, and the opponent and all people connected to that guy hate you for the rest of their magic life.
I don't know if you could cheese a game by being a rules stickler like that, but I dont like how it impacts your rep from than on. At my local, there was a guy, not naming names, who was purposely being rule stickler about every little interaction to tilt his opponent. He may have won that game because of it, but I wasnt even playing him, and decided that from then on Id go out of my way to make playing against me suck, simply because he should have a taste of his own medicine.
So Jacob Baugh is playing a Scourge Devil in what I assume is the Rally slot. This seems interesting to me, because it also triggers our amalgams. Thoughts?
Devil is also hard castable in control match ups, and easier to cast color wise hard casting when not doing rainbow landss.
Devil is a better pick if the meta is is removal heavy. Because after all 4/4 body plus 2 damage is better than nothing. If he gave haste... oh yeah. He doesnt.
Hes a tool to remember. Just have one. Hes less than a dollar in foil. Kinda like why I have 3 huanted dead. Its got a niche job and does it well. If it doesnt need to do it, you dont need too.
I really like Extractor Demon . It won me a couple game. not a lot of deck can block a 5/5 flyer and for 3 mana , it's an easy 5 damage after a boardwipe often enough to get the kill. He even help us with putting cards from our deck into the graveyard.
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Darkblast is clunky vs. a higer number of matches than brutality. Other than infect and affinity, Darkblast is too much situational to be useful.
My tow cents says that the deck has 8 dredge enablers. IMO having "dredge" tacked on the card don't make a card a enabler and loam and blast are as bad as dakmor as enablers. For me they are payoffs, something to take advantage after a few dredges, not something to start/keep the engine.
For me this is the definition of Sideboard card, a card that is essential vs. a small number of matchups, but is not vs. everything else. Recurring it is not relevant except on matches filled with X/1 targets that are actually problems for the deck (such as the infect and affinity). I used to have it main, and it really never ever helped outside of the few matches where it is exceptional, I never ever dredged for it outside of the said matches.
Nice trick, but more cute than a real plan and not where I want to be with maindeck cards.
This is in fact the reason I don’t like Darkblast, I like the toolboxing approach. And for that I think brutality is better. Brutallity is not as good as darkblast at killing dorks, infect and affinity dudes, but it can do it at a reasonable efficiency. It can also be a discard outlet, hand disruption and small sustain. Besides killing small dudes, Blast dredge 3, and let’s be honest, this dredge is rarely relevant.
I keep 2 Darkblast on the side for Infect and Affinity, but I don't see myself bringing it for anything else because it is a card that I very rarely want to see outside of those matches.
Darkblast is good against:
Infect (can win on it's own here)
Affinity (Very very good here, though conflagrate is better)
Elves (snag a key piece)
Death and Taxes (rly good here)
Eldrazi (you wouldn't expect it, but they have X/1s)
Company (if that's even a deck anymore)
Abzan (Lingering Souls and bob sometimes)
Delver (Unflipped delver, Snappy, and most importantly, Young Pyromancer)
Brutality is good against:
Burn (backbreaking here)
Suicide Zoo
Regular Zoo
Affinity (though not as good as blast)
Infect (it's awesome here but not as good as blast)
Merfolk (though haven't tested this one enough)
Valakut decks (hand hate, lifegain)
Delver decks (Hits snappy and delver, their deck is mostly instants or sorceries. I think blast might be better in this one though)
Company (better than blast here, but they're both good)
Jund (Bob and they have tons of annoying instants and sorceries)
Living End (Catching the cascade spell could make the difference, blast kinda does nothing here)
So overall it looks like a judgement call to me.
GB Graveyard(Rip Copter)Modern:
Dredge RBGU (AND WE BACK)
Suicide BlooUR(WotC Why )Living End RBG
Bloo MoonUR
Legacy:
Aluren BGU
Part of toolboxing is getting the tool from the box when you need it. Brutality doesnt tool. Its either in the opener or not. Im really ok with having a "dredge 3" card that is either "dredge three if your not hitting well" as well as "win the game against 2 tier 1 decks" Thats my point of it.
4 Copperline Gorge
1 Mana Confluence
2 Mountain
2 Dakmor Salvage
2 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
1 Haunted Dead
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Prized Amalgam
1 Rally the Peasants
2 Life from the Loam
4 Cathartic Reunion
2 Conflagrate
4 Faithless Looting
3 Collective Brutality
2 Lightning Axe
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Memory's Journey
1 Thoughtseize
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Natural State
Amulet titan, post ban
Surprised to see this. I know it can exist, but its either slow now, or fast but with non of its old relislance. So sure, lets see what it can do. I got a slowish hand, but I'm sure its still faster than theirs. I manage to turn 1 and flash back looting turn 3, so any speed I didnt have, I had on turn 3/4 going for me. He turn 4s a titan, which is fine, since I have conflag for it. He plays an explosives for 4... which is weird. I conflag the titan easily enough, and win off rally the next turn. Note: I had 2 cards in hand when I rallied, so yes, rally killed, conflag couldnt do it. One of the pros of rally here.
In: 1 decay, 1 seize, 2 grudge, 1 natural state Out: rally darkblast, haunted and mom hug I dunno really what I'm doing here... this deck isnt main stream. I think relic is probably the grave hate for this? Cage certainly isnt. Ooze? Maybe?
I seized him and saw a crypt an amulet, and made him take the amulet. I dont really care about his slow hand with a crypt, rather take his combo peice. Im sure that slows him down so much I can just normal attack him to death. Infact, thats what I decided to do. 2 neonates follow, and a hardcasted amalgamate. I force the crypt pop, and Im free to dredge now. He hive minds, but thats fine. I actually have the mana to pay for pacts. so theres that. Conflaged for the end, but he foged. Cheeky. Still all he had was a hivemind and a pact... and I happen to be able to pay for it. Worth noting... I was making my lands able to pay for it from turn 1, when I saw the hive mind. You need B, UU, and GG, which blood crypt, copperline, steam vents, and loamed 1 of mana confluance does.
1-0
Round 2 vs Tron
2 trolls, 1 neonate, 1 mom hug? Oh yeah. its freakin over. Lets go to game 2. No seriously, I just really cant lose there. Seriously. He ugined and I still won. And thats why kids, you leave ghasts in the yard sometimes.
In: seize, natural state, 2 grudge, out: Darkblast, haunted dead, and a mom hug.
Natrual tron, plus a relic. Whoo.
Game 3, We both mulled to 3. Cept Im still fine... cause I got 2 land drops AND they were fetches AND a loam. Woo! So guess who loamed until turn freakin 10? ME! Thats who. And you know what that lets you do? Conflag for freakin 12. Get on my level dredgers!
No that game was super stupid. Extra dumb.
2-0
Round 3 vs Storm... with mad cap?
He mulls 2 5 and I keep a slower hand... but its game one. Well see. I draw a looting turn 2, which enables a ghast-amalagmate. Draw another looting, to really push the value, even if Im still a half a turn behind... He bring to light mad caps! Crazy, But I cast stink weed. So theres no attacking. Basically a stall, but one ends with me getting conflag, so its soon gg.
I side in the 4 discards, and 1 natural state. probably should brought in the grudges but I forgot. Took out 3 mom hugs and a rally.
Ended taking a hand that was farrrr too slow, because I'm dumb. lol. Into light into empty the warrens
-1 natural state +1 grudge.
I had 3 faithless looting in hand, so away I went. But again, kept some ghasts in the yard with a fetch, just in case. He Ravenous Traped me on turn 3 via blowing alot of his storm cards for bring to light, which I fetched a forest to get all the ghasts out, andddd then either no land or no mad cap in his hand, so it was game.
3-0
Round 4 vs Elves
I got a fast hand with looting and mom hug. He speeds out elves but I have conflag, and wipe him out, even though He wants to start being super neck beard and agrue with me the rest of the game...
In: 1 explosive, 3 bruality Out: Dead, 2 mom hug
Open a hand with conflag and brutality, but only 1 hand... gotta risk it. Made it, but saddly not a black source. But I draw a dakmor. this still fits my plan. Kill off his mana dork and lord, and pass. Should take him time to recover. Based on the shaman of the pack, hes got nothing. Off to the races then with brutality in hand. Btw, turns out ezuri cant regen from -2/-2! From here the game is a sinking ship. Hes got a few tokens, but hes not doing anything really, and my army hes blocking is making his chances at winning worse and worse. Then there was a dark blast.
This game was over from the conflag.
4-0
Overall:
Solid. Each and every time I needed conflag or loam, it was there. I enabled all the time, even when I had that stupid mull to 3. Everything did what I wanted it to do. Side worked flawlessly. I kept slow hands and lost... but I made that mistake, not the deck.
For example, if you open with a hand of 2 lands, Shriekhorn, Cathartic Reunion, and 3 other cards but none are large Dredgers. If you keep that hand and Shriekhorn finds you either Stinkweed or GGT (49% of the time it will happen), it looks really good and you're likely to have a very explosive turn 2. But if you don't it could be a one of those games where the deck just fails.
Shriekhorn is at its best when all your big Dredgers are in the library, so the chance of milling them of the top is the highest, Insolent Neonate and Cathartic Reunion want them in your hand so it can dredge them and Faithless Looting want them in your hand or top of library.
I don't think I can construct a 7 card opening hand that consists of just Shriekhorn as my one drop and keep it, so I don't really think it's increasing the consistency of the deck with regards to mulligans.
What I do think Shriekhorn is pretty good at is:
1. It's ability to increase the consistency of the engine once the engine is going. When you dredge Life from the Loam and hit the Amalgam but not the Narcomoeba, you can mill another 2 and possibly hit a Bloodghast or Narcomoeba to keep it going. I don't think the engine so to speak is that fragile that it needs a card like Shriekhorn to keep it going.
2. It does have the ability to turn on the engine completely by milling into Dredgers when you have no other way of getting Dredgers into your graveyard but to that I say you should probably mulligan those hands.
I then tested just a singleton Shriekhorn and put the Cathartic Reunion back in. I tested a bunch of games where I included the Shriekhorn in my opening hand and drew 6 other cards, but I wasn't keeping hands with just Shriekhorn as a way to get Dredgers in the yard so it's hard to say if Darkblast would have been better.
The last complaint I had about Shriekhorn was it added just another layer of decision making to what I find a pretty intensive triggered ability deck. Knowing to activate Shriekhorn in response to the Narcomoeba Trigger or waiting until the endstep until the Prized Amalgam triggers to possibly get an additional Prized Amalgam, it was just too much. I already have to keep track of when to play my lands and whether I should play my land post combat or post combat, or holding up a fetch land for my opponents 2nd main. etc. All of these triggers and it's easy to forget the Shriekhorn.
Also, Golgari Charm is showing up in SBs. Seems good.
One or two persons playing version B over A doesn't means that the version B is better. There is the variance and corner cases that might make better for version B.
Now we have a lot of data and results that says that it is less reliable than the other option.
Good point. I'll add it to the list. I still prefer darkblast main tho.
GB Graveyard(Rip Copter)Modern:
Dredge RBGU (AND WE BACK)
Suicide BlooUR(WotC Why )Living End RBG
Bloo MoonUR
Legacy:
Aluren BGU
How are you liking the Thoughtseize in SB? I also don't understand the EE. I run a third Conflag side, it seems like those are for the same MUs (tho EE does remove a cage or a RIP or whatnot, but we have other hate for that)
Also when boarding, I noticed you were taking out momhug a lot. That looks weird to me, as any time you draw momhug it seems like your percentage to win goes up just because of how explosive the card can be. Just wondering .
Thanks in advance
GB Graveyard(Rip Copter)Modern:
Dredge RBGU (AND WE BACK)
Suicide BlooUR(WotC Why )Living End RBG
Bloo MoonUR
Legacy:
Aluren BGU
In alot of ways brutality, decay and grudge/claim are the overall better cards, but seize and explosives are the narrower better cards.
In short. Id rather run 3 brutality and a explosive vs infect and 3 brutality and sieze is better vs storm. 3 brutality are doing the bulk of the work, but the one off Im adding is better than brutality. The brutality lets me have versatility and a bit of an edge over everything, but the one ofs let me bring more beef in to ensure the edge.
As far as mom hug goes, yeah its powerful. But again... looting is the real glue for the deck. I side out neonate often when its correct too. Neonates go out when lightning axes come in. Neonates discard, so do axes. Same with mom hug and bruality. If you ever had a mom hug and brutality in hand, youll see what Im saying, it sucks.
Thanks for the response! I understand your points, and I've never thought about the Axe for Neonate Brutality for Hug similiarities and what they could mean for swapping them when boarding. Good to know
GB Graveyard(Rip Copter)Modern:
Dredge RBGU (AND WE BACK)
Suicide BlooUR(WotC Why )Living End RBG
Bloo MoonUR
Legacy:
Aluren BGU
I'd still keep rally in the main. It just fits better in the game plan of turn 4 loam-> conflag (4 mana), turn 5 reload conflag with loam, rally in the mean time (5 mana). turn 6, refire with a fully backed conflag (potential loam, loam conflag, 6 mana).
Rally's good. just gotta know when its better... and its usually better at ending the game around a counterspell, mid combat messed up math, back up conflag kill after first misses... Theres alot of uses for it.
Yea I just did a whole lot of testing against Death and Taxes, a MU that should be a bit unfavorable, and Rally was spectacular, as was your idea of swapping neonates for axes and brutalities for hugs (I tried going up to 3 on brutalities as well, worked really well). I won every match 2-1, tho variance did strike every now and then and a lot of them were really close. The SB plan worked really well. Here's my current list after testing:
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Insolent Neonate
2 Haunted Dead
Noncreature Spells (14)
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Faithless Looting
2 Conflagrate
2 Life from the Loam
1 Darkblast
1 Rally the Peasants
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Blood Crypt
2 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Dakmor Salvage
1 Mana confluence
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Bojuka Bog
3 Collective Brutality
1 Conflagrate
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Lightning Axe
1 Darkblast
I'm trying the mana confluence out for a way to cast rally and narc/amalgam if need be. That slot is usually a steam vents for me.
May I ask why you don't run any bojuka bog's in the board?
As a side note, the person I was testing with said the more flex slots we run for lands (confluence, vents) the more burn will be able to punish us for it. So that was part of the reason I went up to 3 brutalities and stayed at 2 gnaws. As far as I'm concered, that should make us favored in the burn MU. Game 1 is 50/50, and then G2+3 if any of those 5 cards is cast even once, we're favored to win.
GB Graveyard(Rip Copter)Modern:
Dredge RBGU (AND WE BACK)
Suicide BlooUR(WotC Why )Living End RBG
Bloo MoonUR
Legacy:
Aluren BGU
Here are my matches:
Game 1 Vs Bant Eldrazi:
Game one was rough, since my early dredgers didn't get me there until he had an elder deep fiend on the battle field. but I was able to chump block and bash in by going wide. Game 2 he had graffdiggers on turn one and I hade no sideboard cards but my hand was extremely good for dredging so that's why I kept. I was slaughtered that game. Game 3 he kept a hand without hate and I was just able to dredge really well.
Record 1-0-0
Game 2 versus Abzan:
Game one was just too fast, he even showed me how dead his hand was with his discard card spells. Game 2 I never saw any hate so I was able to go wide again and finished it off with rally even though he had lingering souls. it was ridiculous.
Record 2-0-0
Game 3 versus mono white Humans:
This was an aggro deck but thanks to Mom I was able to dredge so much in game one. I out aggrod him and ended up playing rally to win game one.Game 2 was a night mare , he graffdigger's cage turn one and Rest in piece turn two. I was forced to hardcast everything and he eventually out aggroed me but he took a long time to do it since he kept the hard hate hand lol. Game 3 he did the same thing but he had almost no creatures so I was able to hard cast stuff and bash in. However we went to time so we ended up drawing.
Record 2-0-1
Game 4 versus Mono Blue Tron:
Game 1 was ridiculous, I ddredged so much and his hand was super dead since he runs nothing but counter spells lol. So I just ended the game by turn four. Game 2 he mulliganed to 5 and kept a one lander, an island lol. And he never drew another land again. It surprisingly took me a few turns to beat him with a single bloodghast due tot the fact that I never dredged a narcomoeba to trigger my three amalgams. In the end I just conflagrate him for the remaining damage.
Record 3-0-1
I ended up taking first after tie breakers. The mono white humans who I tied with had the same record but I had the beater breakers so I ended up winning.
This deck can be really unfair at times lol. I look at my opponents faces and notice that they calculate all the damage they'll be taking lol. On another note, I absolutely love this deck. Youll definitely have those moments where you don't dredge well at all but overall this deck performs really well.
My overall record with this deck, since ive only been playing it for a month, is 13-1-3. which isn't bad at all but I don't like drawing. lol
Modern: Affinity, Mono-White Hatebears.
Legacy: Death and Taxes, Mono Red Sneak Attack, Dragon Stompy.
Its not a may effect, so I assume a judge is called, graves are exiled, and the opponent and all people connected to that guy hate you for the rest of their magic life.
I don't know if you could cheese a game by being a rules stickler like that, but I dont like how it impacts your rep from than on. At my local, there was a guy, not naming names, who was purposely being rule stickler about every little interaction to tilt his opponent. He may have won that game because of it, but I wasnt even playing him, and decided that from then on Id go out of my way to make playing against me suck, simply because he should have a taste of his own medicine.
GB Graveyard(Rip Copter)Modern:
Dredge RBGU (AND WE BACK)
Suicide BlooUR(WotC Why )Living End RBG
Bloo MoonUR
Legacy:
Aluren BGU
Devil is a better pick if the meta is is removal heavy. Because after all 4/4 body plus 2 damage is better than nothing. If he gave haste... oh yeah. He doesnt.
Hes a tool to remember. Just have one. Hes less than a dollar in foil. Kinda like why I have 3 huanted dead. Its got a niche job and does it well. If it doesnt need to do it, you dont need too.