Vengevine is like (as much as I dont want to say it) bad prized amalgamates. You get a better creature, but at the cost of a worse deck. Dredgevine has a faster kill then us, as it can literally kill on turn 3, where as we threaten lethal power on turn 3, and win on turn four... grant it most of the time it's the same result.
Basically, they need to jump through hoops to get the same effect as us done, and it takes up more of their deck space. We on the other hand, can use that deck space for better dredge cards and better utility. so we do the same thing as dredgevine, but more consistently and with more interaction.
The first weekend I played against dredgevine with dredge. Game 1 was short and sweet, he didnt put enough vines in the yard due to them dredging around 4-5 a turn, and me at 7-14, and their blood ghasts dont trigger vines, where ours trigger amalgamates. I just had leathal easier than he did. Game 2 I lost on turn 3 to 3 attacking vines, and had a win in my hand for the next turn that wouldnt come. Game 3 He'd block with his chumps to get the game going longer, and eventually my creatures could go to wide for him and also straight up conflag him to death.
I had the better deck. It was more consistant, could dredge more, had better sideboard cards, could interact with his cards better, and i didnt have to play bad cards like hedron crab and birds of paradise. He won a single game with the only place dredgevine is better, speed, but that hidges a ton on RNG
Thanks for the timely and flushed out response!
I wasn't meaning that you ought to run vengevine over amalgam, but rather to run it along side it. It seems like it's just an issue of deck space and efficiency though, is that right?
So, I have a different view on side boarding with this deck. I normally take out 5-7 cards, and bring in 6-8. In my experience, our game 1 match up is SO much more powerful than what other decks are doing that if we can get enough anti-hate to force through even a slightly diluted game one state we are going to win. However, the hate cards against us are so strong, if we can't get rid of them we're just playing an above-average draft deck.
With the introduction of cathartic reunion, I am relearning how to side board. Those slots used to be filled with cards that were so mediocre it didn't feel bad at all to just cut them for games 2 and 3.
I will keep notes on what I took in and out next week to give examples of how I board. At FNM this week, there were 2 or 3 extremely grindy games that ended with me winning at 0 cards in deck after boarding up to 61-62. I ended up playing the only other two people on dredge in rounds 1 and 2. I won, but both matches stalled out to time, with me winning in turns on 0 cards in deck.
Round 3 was Jund with a complete sweep. I whiffed on a reunion (loam as dredger, hits salvage, hits nothing) but the next card I drew was the one lightning axe in the main for the Scooze he played on 2. He never plays another relevant card game 1. Game two, he flips Anger with Bob on turn three, then plays an overgrown tomb (making his lands tomb/tomb/ravine). He never sees another red source and shows me the double anger in his hand after game.
Round 4 was Mardu 'Greatness at any cost'. Game one wasn't that interesting. I win. Game two though, I played the game so wrong. I thought he was going the control route, but he went the souls-beats-burn route instead. I tried playing around anger of the gods and rest in peace by splitting up my resources. I kept some in grave and some on field and didn't conflag souls tokens when I should have. He ended up beating me down and having multiple bolts and helix to finish me off. Game three, I was reminded of something I had never thought of: Nahiri can get artifacts. This was relevant because I had 4 amalgams and a ghast on field and all but 5 cards of my deck in my grave. I was also over 40 life from gnaw to the bone (brought in after game 2). He ults Nahiri, I go to sac some lands and a Bloodghast. He instead gets a nihil spellbomb, K-returns my Bloodghast away (putting 3 in the grave - this number is important) and spellbombs me, leaving me with 4 amalgams, 5 cards in deck, and no hand. I untap, draw my 4th ghast, and hit down to 2 with the amalgams. He untaps, plays a Bob as a blocker, has a shambling vents ready to activate, and has a bolt in hand. This would leave him at 1 life and he could untap with a full grip. I play the ghast with haste to attack him down to -1. So yeah, Nahiri can get artifacts. Who knew?
I drew round 5 against infect for first and second place.
Personally I cut Catharic Reunions only against heavy countermagic, against everything else I always play 4. Reunion has unique effect - it doesn't require to have dredgers in graveyad before casting (advantage over Looting), and let dredge up to 18 cards! If you want ot cut 1-2 enablers after side my pick is Insolent Neonate - dredge only once (so maximum dredge 6) and can't discard more then 1 card from hand, which is important with Amalgams and Bloodghasts stocked in hand.
I feel the same way, which is giving me fits while side boarding. We used to have so many slots filled with mediocre-bad cards just to fill space in the deck. Now reunion is in a lot of those slots and feels bad to take out. Taking one out feels like siding out a faithless, and I've never considered doing that.
Right now I've been testing out a single Scrapheap Scrounger along with my single Haunted Dead. It seems to be working okay. I havent been impressed with Rally the Peasants. I havent played Rally since I had the rainbow manabase over the summer in June/July. Its awkward in my hand and even in games, it just seems clunky. It feels like I could win games that were close more easily but I still don't know if it's as good with the Scrounger and the Jund Fetch manabase.
So when we first got big, there was a huge boom on grave hate, and we died down and dropped from competitive play. Well looks like we're back up. I mean, not like pregrave hate levels where we were like 13%, but were pretty steady at 5% now, so our tier 1 status is pretty much confirmed long term. Lets see what getting an upgrade to our speed and consistency does.
I'm working on my sideboard but I've never really thought about playing Memory's Journey. What are its best uses and is everyone whose playing it happy with it?
I am currently at work and will be writing up a more detailed report later on tonight. As for the tournament itself, I won and it wasn't particularly close. 3-0-2 in swiss and 3-0 in top 8, didn't lose a single game on the day. Cathartic Reunion is as good as advertised, to be honest it felt like I was playing with Tolarian Winds back in old extended. Not quite on the Breakthrough level but still absurdly powerful. Could not imagine ever playing less than 4.
I'm working on my sideboard but I've never really thought about playing Memory's Journey. What are its best uses and is everyone whose playing it happy with it?
When I used to play it, I found little to no use for it. Sure, I can save stuff from Surgical, but only if I had it in grave. Doesn't really work as grave hate unless you want to use it vs Goryo's Vengence, which I might be doing since someone built it at this store I play at. If you're scared of other grave decks and the mirror, use Leyline. If not, I suggest using Bojuka Bog vs grixis or other flashback/delve decks to just clear that yard. If you're concerned about your own cards, Noxious Revival might do it since you can use it to get enablers back and use it to dredge faster.
Round 2(Abzan Flayer): There isn't much to say here, he mulliganed to 5 in both game 1 and 2, and the only hate card he drew was Scavenging Ooze(which he did draw in both games), but game one I had the Conflagrate for it and game 2 I had the Lightning Axe for it. SBing here was -1 Darkblast -1 Cathartic Reunion +2 Lightning Axe. I assumed that since he was playing Lingering Souls he likely was not going to have access to Grafdigger's Cage, and the same goes for Rest in Peace since he has Tarmogoyf and Grim Flayer, so I narrowed down the cards he could potentially have to Anafenza, Ooze, and Leyline. If he has Leyline good beats, and Axe covers the other two. Turns out he had 3 Cages and just never drew them
Round 3(Infect): He wins the die roll and plays T1 Glistener Elf. Thankfully I had Darkblast in my opening hand and the game was almost over on the spot. He played Blighted Agent on T2(assuming he had a Mutagenic), but I really had no other play than to go for the Blast and it turns out he did not have it. The first dredge hit a Troll and it was basically smooth sailing from there. SB here was +3 Brutality +2 Axe +1 Darkblast -4 Reunion -2 Loam. Game 2 he went Pendelhaven Elf, I Darkblasted it. His T2 was Inkmoth pass, I dredged and hit a Troll, cast Looting dredge 11, discard Bloodghast, played land and passed with 5 power. The game ended up playing on a few more turns but he never found another colored source so he was never able to cast a pump spell and hold up protection, and his clock was way too slow.
Rounds 4 and 5: ID
Quarterfinals(Jund): As expected, game one is essentially impossible to lose unless they have an uncontested Ooze, which he did not have. T1 Looting, discard Troll Amalgam. T2 Reunion discard Amalgam Troll, put 3 Amalgams 3 Narcomoebas and a Bloodghast into play. Game 2 was much closer, I had a pretty good draw with 2 Ghasts 2 Amalgams and a Moeba on turn 2, but he had Anger of the Gods and it took me a couple turns to rebuild. My first 2 Conflagrates killed a Flayer and a Goyf, and a timely dredge of Life From the Loam found my 3rd and we were onto the semis. I wish I could remember more of the turns in game 2 after he cast Anger since there were a lot of close decisions and it was a very close game.
Semifinals(Grixis Delver): Game one he had a T1 Thought Scour followed by T2 Serum Visions and Gurmag Angler, and then took lethal damage on my third turn. Basically outside of double Delver draws and both flipping, it's very difficult to lose to them game one similar to Jund. Game 2 I wasn't sure what hate he would have, boarded assuming he had Leylines since I wanted to cut all the Reunions anyways and had some extra space. Turns out that he had zero actual dedicated hate as he said people at the store usually don't play Dredge, and all he boarded in were Dispels, Disdainful Stroke, and Staticaster. He went Delver into Serum Delver and basically just let me goldfish him. After I flipped the Conflagrate on turn 2 to kill both Delvers he extended the hand. Finals!
Finals(Abzan): Same guy as before, and since I was on the play I knew I was likely to win G1 and then would have to face his 3 Cage 3 Anafenza 3 Ooze SB plan, which I was not a fan of. As expected, I essentially goldfished G1 as he didn't draw Ooze. And in G2.......he mulled to 2. Anti climactic, but I'll take it I guess.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Yeah, Anger of the Gods is a pain for sure. We try to see it coming and play a little more cautiously and fetch for a land to get bloodghasts at the end the 2nd main to get back amalgams and attack next turn.
Thing in the Ice is an interesting one. It requires a lot of setup. I've had two flip on me simulataneously when playing against a kiln fiend deck and that very solidly ended the game. It's good, but if we're comparing cards in a vacuum, I think Anger is definitely the better option. It takes minimal investment, can be replayed with snapcaster, and exiles the creatures rather than put them in our hand which we can use for a mega conflagrate if we dont die from the Awoken Horror.
One thing to be aware though when playing against Thing in the Ice is whether you have a Conflagrate in the graveyard. When I was playing the Pyromancer Ascension deck, I often would flip Thing only for my Dredge opponent to get a conflag in the bin and destroy me from 12+ life.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Modern] RBGU Dredge RBGU RG Ponza RG UR Thing in the Ice Ascension UR
[EDH/CMDR] G Titania, Protector of Argoth G UB Grimgrin, Corpse-born UB UWR Zedruu, the Greathearted UWR
Thing in ice this one is played around in 2 ways. The first is if its early game, and you can tell they dont have a counter, conflag it for 4, or lightning axe it, attack into it with amalgamate then darkblast.
The other option is if its later game, let them flip it and conflag for leathal. If they counter, you can get all your dudes back still.
Chalice of the void on 1 crappy for us. Faithless lootings and neonates are dead, as is axe if you sided it in. The big thing thats dead is conflag. You can play around it if you sided in grudge. Other than that, you cant really just try to push through. If instead of the 3rd conflag you run rally or devil like me it still leaves you with a win con.
anger of the gods the classic best way to play around it is leave fetches open. Its also the easiest. They can still anger the 1-2 ghasts but you keep the workhorse 3-3s. You can also use haunted dead to play around it. Thought seize and collectice brutality are counters from the board. More corner case stuff is greater garadon and golgari charm. Ive conflaged my own ghasts before too to ensure leathal from top decked angers (4 damage off conflag is 8 ghast haste attacks) another thing you can do when you know they got it is animate one ghast and bring back the amalgamates as fodder and force them to anger, netting you ghasts in the yard. You also can do the ever annoying make a golgari grave troll plan.
Cryptic commandIve done stuff like hold fetches til combat phase when all I need is to attack. Sometimes the haste 4 damage can get there when it forces the tap out early followed by a conflag.
Ensnaring bridge usually you can conflag them out. When you cant, decay and grudge work, but it buys them alot of time.
Conflagrate has a CMC of XXR on the stack when you flash it back right? So if you discard any amount of cards to cast Conflagrate, it'll have a CMC of greater than 1 and won't be countered by Chalice set to 1. (e.g. if you discard 5 cards to flash it back the CMC will be 11)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
Thing in ice this one is played around in 2 ways. The first is if its early game, and you can tell they dont have a counter, conflag it for 4, or lightning axe it, attack into it with amalgamate then darkblast.
The other option is if its later game, let them flip it and conflag for leathal. If they counter, you can get all your dudes back still.
Chalice of the void on 1 crappy for us. Faithless lootings and neonates are dead, as is axe if you sided it in. The big thing thats dead is conflag. You can play around it if you sided in grudge. Other than that, you cant really just try to push through. If instead of the 3rd conflag you run rally or devil like me it still leaves you with a win con.
anger of the gods the classic best way to play around it is leave fetches open. Its also the easiest. They can still anger the 1-2 ghasts but you keep the workhorse 3-3s. You can also use haunted dead to play around it. Thought seize and collectice brutality are counters from the board. More corner case stuff is greater garadon and golgari charm. Ive conflaged my own ghasts before too to ensure leathal from top decked angers (4 damage off conflag is 8 ghast haste attacks) another thing you can do when you know they got it is animate one ghast and bring back the amalgamates as fodder and force them to anger, netting you ghasts in the yard. You also can do the ever annoying make a golgari grave troll plan.
Cryptic commandIve done stuff like hold fetches til combat phase when all I need is to attack. Sometimes the haste 4 damage can get there when it forces the tap out early followed by a conflag.
Ensnaring bridge usually you can conflag them out. When you cant, decay and grudge work, but it buys them alot of time.
Is the mana Cost of a Conflagurate flashback 1?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
9/25/2006: While Conflagrate is on the stack, its mana cost will reflect the value chosen for X, even if it was cast with flashback and no mana was spent on X.
So, Conflagrate CMC on the stack is always = 1 + XX.
I use this all the time to kill Eidolon of the Great Revel for no damage.
Thanks for the timely and flushed out response!
I wasn't meaning that you ought to run vengevine over amalgam, but rather to run it along side it. It seems like it's just an issue of deck space and efficiency though, is that right?
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
With the introduction of cathartic reunion, I am relearning how to side board. Those slots used to be filled with cards that were so mediocre it didn't feel bad at all to just cut them for games 2 and 3.
I will keep notes on what I took in and out next week to give examples of how I board. At FNM this week, there were 2 or 3 extremely grindy games that ended with me winning at 0 cards in deck after boarding up to 61-62. I ended up playing the only other two people on dredge in rounds 1 and 2. I won, but both matches stalled out to time, with me winning in turns on 0 cards in deck.
Round 3 was Jund with a complete sweep. I whiffed on a reunion (loam as dredger, hits salvage, hits nothing) but the next card I drew was the one lightning axe in the main for the Scooze he played on 2. He never plays another relevant card game 1. Game two, he flips Anger with Bob on turn three, then plays an overgrown tomb (making his lands tomb/tomb/ravine). He never sees another red source and shows me the double anger in his hand after game.
Round 4 was Mardu 'Greatness at any cost'. Game one wasn't that interesting. I win. Game two though, I played the game so wrong. I thought he was going the control route, but he went the souls-beats-burn route instead. I tried playing around anger of the gods and rest in peace by splitting up my resources. I kept some in grave and some on field and didn't conflag souls tokens when I should have. He ended up beating me down and having multiple bolts and helix to finish me off. Game three, I was reminded of something I had never thought of: Nahiri can get artifacts. This was relevant because I had 4 amalgams and a ghast on field and all but 5 cards of my deck in my grave. I was also over 40 life from gnaw to the bone (brought in after game 2). He ults Nahiri, I go to sac some lands and a Bloodghast. He instead gets a nihil spellbomb, K-returns my Bloodghast away (putting 3 in the grave - this number is important) and spellbombs me, leaving me with 4 amalgams, 5 cards in deck, and no hand. I untap, draw my 4th ghast, and hit down to 2 with the amalgams. He untaps, plays a Bob as a blocker, has a shambling vents ready to activate, and has a bolt in hand. This would leave him at 1 life and he could untap with a full grip. I play the ghast with haste to attack him down to -1. So yeah, Nahiri can get artifacts. Who knew?
I drew round 5 against infect for first and second place.
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Narcomoeba
4 Bloodghast
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Insolent Neonate
1 Haunted Dead
4 Cathartic Reunion
4 Faithless Looting
3 Life From the Loam
3 Conflagrate
1 Darkblast
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Blood Crypt
2 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
2 Mountain
2 Dakmor Salvage
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Nature's Claim
3 Collective Brutality
1 Darkblast
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Lightning Axe
I am currently at work and will be writing up a more detailed report later on tonight. As for the tournament itself, I won and it wasn't particularly close. 3-0-2 in swiss and 3-0 in top 8, didn't lose a single game on the day. Cathartic Reunion is as good as advertised, to be honest it felt like I was playing with Tolarian Winds back in old extended. Not quite on the Breakthrough level but still absurdly powerful. Could not imagine ever playing less than 4.
And I'm looking forward to read your report.
Thanks.
When I used to play it, I found little to no use for it. Sure, I can save stuff from Surgical, but only if I had it in grave. Doesn't really work as grave hate unless you want to use it vs Goryo's Vengence, which I might be doing since someone built it at this store I play at. If you're scared of other grave decks and the mirror, use Leyline. If not, I suggest using Bojuka Bog vs grixis or other flashback/delve decks to just clear that yard. If you're concerned about your own cards, Noxious Revival might do it since you can use it to get enablers back and use it to dredge faster.
Round 1(Bant Enchantress): Wasn't sure exactly what he was playing, but the match ended fairly quickly with little to no interaction. Game one I had 12 power in play on turn 2 while he only had one land and a Utopia Sprawl. He played a Verduran Enchantress then an Eidolon of Blossoms, and then received lethal damage. I expected him to have Rest in Peace or Worship, so I boarded in the 3 Nature's Claims and one Engineered Explosives for 1 Life From the Loam, 1 Conflagrate, 1 Cathartic Reunion, and the Darkblast. Game 2 was much of the same, although he did have a turn 3 Detention Sphere for my 3 Bloodghasts, however I had the end step Nature's Claim. After that he played a Ghostly Prison and slowed me down a turn or two, but I just got him into Conflagrate range and cast it x=9.
Round 2(Abzan Flayer): There isn't much to say here, he mulliganed to 5 in both game 1 and 2, and the only hate card he drew was Scavenging Ooze(which he did draw in both games), but game one I had the Conflagrate for it and game 2 I had the Lightning Axe for it. SBing here was -1 Darkblast -1 Cathartic Reunion +2 Lightning Axe. I assumed that since he was playing Lingering Souls he likely was not going to have access to Grafdigger's Cage, and the same goes for Rest in Peace since he has Tarmogoyf and Grim Flayer, so I narrowed down the cards he could potentially have to Anafenza, Ooze, and Leyline. If he has Leyline good beats, and Axe covers the other two. Turns out he had 3 Cages and just never drew them
Round 3(Infect): He wins the die roll and plays T1 Glistener Elf. Thankfully I had Darkblast in my opening hand and the game was almost over on the spot. He played Blighted Agent on T2(assuming he had a Mutagenic), but I really had no other play than to go for the Blast and it turns out he did not have it. The first dredge hit a Troll and it was basically smooth sailing from there. SB here was +3 Brutality +2 Axe +1 Darkblast -4 Reunion -2 Loam. Game 2 he went Pendelhaven Elf, I Darkblasted it. His T2 was Inkmoth pass, I dredged and hit a Troll, cast Looting dredge 11, discard Bloodghast, played land and passed with 5 power. The game ended up playing on a few more turns but he never found another colored source so he was never able to cast a pump spell and hold up protection, and his clock was way too slow.
Rounds 4 and 5: ID
Quarterfinals(Jund): As expected, game one is essentially impossible to lose unless they have an uncontested Ooze, which he did not have. T1 Looting, discard Troll Amalgam. T2 Reunion discard Amalgam Troll, put 3 Amalgams 3 Narcomoebas and a Bloodghast into play. Game 2 was much closer, I had a pretty good draw with 2 Ghasts 2 Amalgams and a Moeba on turn 2, but he had Anger of the Gods and it took me a couple turns to rebuild. My first 2 Conflagrates killed a Flayer and a Goyf, and a timely dredge of Life From the Loam found my 3rd and we were onto the semis. I wish I could remember more of the turns in game 2 after he cast Anger since there were a lot of close decisions and it was a very close game.
Semifinals(Grixis Delver): Game one he had a T1 Thought Scour followed by T2 Serum Visions and Gurmag Angler, and then took lethal damage on my third turn. Basically outside of double Delver draws and both flipping, it's very difficult to lose to them game one similar to Jund. Game 2 I wasn't sure what hate he would have, boarded assuming he had Leylines since I wanted to cut all the Reunions anyways and had some extra space. Turns out that he had zero actual dedicated hate as he said people at the store usually don't play Dredge, and all he boarded in were Dispels, Disdainful Stroke, and Staticaster. He went Delver into Serum Delver and basically just let me goldfish him. After I flipped the Conflagrate on turn 2 to kill both Delvers he extended the hand. Finals!
Finals(Abzan): Same guy as before, and since I was on the play I knew I was likely to win G1 and then would have to face his 3 Cage 3 Anafenza 3 Ooze SB plan, which I was not a fan of. As expected, I essentially goldfished G1 as he didn't draw Ooze. And in G2.......he mulled to 2. Anti climactic, but I'll take it I guess.
Since sideboard slots are really tight right now, are there non-graveyard hate cards that can interact well against dredge decks?
For example, I have seen people use Anger of the Gods or Thing in the Ice to be a complete blow out
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Yeah, Anger of the Gods is a pain for sure. We try to see it coming and play a little more cautiously and fetch for a land to get bloodghasts at the end the 2nd main to get back amalgams and attack next turn.
Thing in the Ice is an interesting one. It requires a lot of setup. I've had two flip on me simulataneously when playing against a kiln fiend deck and that very solidly ended the game. It's good, but if we're comparing cards in a vacuum, I think Anger is definitely the better option. It takes minimal investment, can be replayed with snapcaster, and exiles the creatures rather than put them in our hand which we can use for a mega conflagrate if we dont die from the Awoken Horror.
RBGU Dredge RBGU
RG Ponza RG
UR Thing in the Ice Ascension UR
[EDH/CMDR]
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-born UB
UWR Zedruu, the Greathearted UWR
Thing in ice this one is played around in 2 ways. The first is if its early game, and you can tell they dont have a counter, conflag it for 4, or lightning axe it, attack into it with amalgamate then darkblast.
The other option is if its later game, let them flip it and conflag for leathal. If they counter, you can get all your dudes back still.
Chalice of the void on 1 crappy for us. Faithless lootings and neonates are dead, as is axe if you sided it in. The big thing thats dead is conflag. You can play around it if you sided in grudge. Other than that, you cant really just try to push through. If instead of the 3rd conflag you run rally or devil like me it still leaves you with a win con.
anger of the gods the classic best way to play around it is leave fetches open. Its also the easiest. They can still anger the 1-2 ghasts but you keep the workhorse 3-3s. You can also use haunted dead to play around it. Thought seize and collectice brutality are counters from the board. More corner case stuff is greater garadon and golgari charm. Ive conflaged my own ghasts before too to ensure leathal from top decked angers (4 damage off conflag is 8 ghast haste attacks) another thing you can do when you know they got it is animate one ghast and bring back the amalgamates as fodder and force them to anger, netting you ghasts in the yard. You also can do the ever annoying make a golgari grave troll plan.
Cryptic commandIve done stuff like hold fetches til combat phase when all I need is to attack. Sometimes the haste 4 damage can get there when it forces the tap out early followed by a conflag.
Ensnaring bridge usually you can conflag them out. When you cant, decay and grudge work, but it buys them alot of time.
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
Is the mana Cost of a Conflagurate flashback 1?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I use this all the time to kill Eidolon of the Great Revel for no damage.