My sideboard plan is -2 Think Twice, -2 Supreme Verdict, +1 Blessed Alliance, +1 Dispel, +1 Negate, +1 Timely
What can I do to make this MU better? When I first built this deck I excluded the Wall of Omens, but decided to add it after seeing how atrocious my burn MU was, and now it isn't much better, I'm 2-5 in matches against it.
The only thing I'd like to point out is a small flaw in your thinking with Opt, and I've seen you make the same error with regard to search for azcanta in the past. You seem to be justifying the inclusion of some cards based on the fact that your filter cards can effectively change what you're drawing. The problem with this line of thinking is that without relying on sheer luck (hoping the top card of the deck is a card you DONT want) these effects (Scry and Think Tank) can only help you increase the chance of drawing any given card, not decrease the chance of drawing any given card.
With that said I think it is a huge mistake to not be playing at least 1 copy of Azcanta in this deck. Other than that, I hope you find your fields, especially since you're running 2 Rev, I think you will find they are very good. Cheers and good luck again!
Thank you! Yeah, I just meant that if I see a Rev on top with Opt and don't want it, I can bottom it -- not that Opt would objectively help me not to find them. It was meant more of a "for what it's worth" than a justification. I agree with you. =D
What would you cut for an Azcanta (probably just a Rev, as I know you're not fond of that card), and is it worth it just to have 1 in the deck?
@Annihilator: Settle the Wreckage seems like it should just be the 4th Supreme Verdict for you. The 4 drop of Verdict can't be countered and doesn't give the opponent any upside. In a perfect scenario the opponent would have 3-4 lands at this point (depending if you SS them or not). They would have 2-3 cards in hand maybe. Essentially giving certain decks all their basics could let them rebuild. If you did this against Skred it would hurt you. I don't like sweepers that give the opponent anything in return. Path to Exile is always a difficult drop from me and a "this threat has to go" card. Just my 2 cents. Please correct me if I'm way off base.
I really enjoy Search for Azcanta. Had a buddy looking over my shoulder during a game against Esper Control. Went late game and had 1 SFA flipped and the other do the upkeep skry thing along with Jace on the board. All he said was "Holy Crap" lol. The filtering and finding late game was awesome to have every answer and find whatever threat I needed. Great fun!
I'm not too concerned with the lands because I know that at least one guy up there has played Dredge in the past and will be attending. It also exiles vs. Finks and Thrun, so I feel like it's justified to play 1 even if it's not the best.
Hey all, I have been playing it for almost 3 years now with great results but i have a few concerns. Not to sound negative but i have been watching U/W control drop in both popularity and in rankings/ placings in recent events. I still feel its an amazing deck and i do really enjoy it. but a lot of people and pros are in favor of Jeskai Tempo over U/W control at this time. It may be due to the Meta speeding up and also cause of Storm being a tough match up for U/W.. I'm on the fence about what to do. I don't want to change decks but if U/W control continues to drop it wont be long before jt falls out of top-tier :S.
There is nothing wrong with that as it is a great diverse deck and popularity isnt that important. . Maybe im overthinking. Gimme some Feedback !
I am currently running 25 lands and a Crucible of Worlds Md (nothing feels better than the GQ strip mine lockdown ). Would it be recommended to drop down to 24 lands to include another planeswalker? I currently run 4 (Jura, lil Giddy, Jace AoT, and Elspeth). Was thinking of Lil Giddy x2.
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@annhilator - Yea, definitely Rev. Trying to look at other cards because Im also aware if my bias there - it's card advantage though, so I kind of like it taking up one of those slots, I just noticed you aren't on any Jace. So maybe don't cut a Rev because I think we need like 3-4 dedicated card advantage slots. Maybe secure the wastes?
@basky45 - Your list looks like it should be okay with burn, you might just be having some bad luck. Your board plan could be improved a little as well I think - if you're going to be cutting 4 drops it should be cryptic over verdict. Verdict is pretty good against Eidolon and they are gonna be empty handed by the time you can pass the turn and hold up 4 Mana for cryptic. Shadow of doubt is probably too slow against them as well, you could probably cut that for either runed halo or Geist. Not sure which is better, I don't run halo but it seems like it would be decent, making Eidolon one sided in your favor seems great. I might also be tempted to cut sphere for Geist of saint traft. They are both going to neutralize a threat, but Geist has the benefit of being a good topdeck after you stabilize. sometimes you need to.close quickly after you stabilize.
@dylanyad - Jeskai does seem well positioned now, one of the reasons as you mentioned is that they have a better store match, but also lightning bolt is just better than it has been for awhile. When the meta was being dominated by Shadow, Eldrazi and shift, Bolt looked pretty miserable. Those decks still are top tier, but they hold a much smaller percentage of the overall field now and most other decks are susceptible to bolt. I often finding myself wishing I could play a couple more spot removal spells that dont ramp the opponent. Just being able to survive long enough to cast a verdict can be tough sometimes. I think UW can continue to be great, we might just have to adapt a bit if the meta opens up too much. UW was a great meta deck because of how good spreading seas was in that meta that was hostile to Bolt. Shadow and Eldrazi and Shift can all get over whelmed by spreading seas, but when those decks represent a smaller fraction of what we can expect to see, maybe we should let spreading seas sit out for a bit? It's probably wrong, but UW has always felt like a meta dependent deck to me.
Chantu9y - you should post your whole list for reference, hard to make judgements based on just a few cards. Personally, I don't think crucible is in great spot right now, it's going to be too slow against most decks and the matchups where it shines are already decent matchups imo. That said, I think 24 lands and a crucible could work depending how many can trips you run, which is why it's important to see the whole list, but I've always like 25 lands in the list because we have so much to do with our Mana that o feel like we lose more often being Mana screwed rather than flooded.
I agree with jayjayhooks assessment that UW control is a meta dependent deck, as most control decks tend to be. However one of the great things about modern is how often the top decks fluctuate, while being generally good regardless. Look at decks like Affinity or Burn (heck even Tom Ross recently tried to pilot an Infect deck again) that seem almost unstoppable before going back to being played less/less prominent. UW control has proven itself to be a generally strong deck in Modern over time, despite periods where it stumbles. I think at the moment Jeskai has the upper hand, but who knows if that will be the case in a few months time (heck we were the best control deck around the summer time). If your meta calls for it, Jeskai may be the way to go but I think it depends on more how you like to play the game. I'm more tapout style myself so UW suits me and, having run three colors grixis control myself, I like the easier manabase. Anytime I feel frustrated at my MU, I watch guys like Paul Cheon or Corey Burkhart pilot this deck and see how powerful this deck can be with the right pilot, even when we're the underdogs.
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@jayjayhooks and all,
So here is my decklist. Like it had said, just started playing this deck so please don't judge the sb lol. Im using this time to understand the deck and still have to buy and upgrade my sb but basically pieced this one together from what I've used with my old UW Emeria Control deck. Looking to have a real sb come next month, but if you guys have any suggestions on "must haves" let me know!
As per your original question, I think you could get away with 24 lands in that list since you aren't playing any extra taplands other than colonnade and have plenty of cantrips. 2nd Gideon Trials would be my suggestion if you're looking for another walker.
As far as must haves for the sideboard, looks like you've got Stony covered, probably would recommend at least 1 Rest in Peace and the last must have would be a 4th sweeper, most would say 4th verdict and that's probably right, but I really like Settle the Wreckage in that slot as well. I also think Dispel, Negate and Disdainful stroke are also pretty common across most peoples board, I personally would never not have Dispel and at least 1 of the other 2. The other common ones are Clique, Geist of Saint Traft and/or Queller but I honestly don't think any one of those last 3 are necessary for sideboard plans, though they can be very good.
Here's how the latest league went, deck configuration is kinda similar but I changed a few things around:
1st: 2-1 vs Eldrazi and Taxes
2nd: 2-1 vs Ponza (this match up is absurdly draw dependant. If they go first and start casting ld/bm on the 2nd turn, you're screwed. Can't recommend keeping a hand with no early counters)
3rd: 2-0 vs Grixis Delver. He had AV after sideboard which can be a pain since we really don't have that many hard counters)
4th: 2-1 vs Mardu. This deck keeps becoming more popular and it's way too skill intensive. They sometimes get you with bm and they have way too much ca. One strategy that seems to be working is attacking their sacred foundries since they only 2 of them as white sources in the deck.
5th: 2-1 vs Storm. G1 is way too sad, they can just take their time comboing off since we really have no pressure. It seems overkill but I usually keep all 4 verdicts after sb.
Is your basic plains count at 3? I've heard people say that blood moon is laughable and use that as justification for cutting down to 2 plains. I never want to be on 2 plains. Luckily Ponza tends to have very few threats, so they often give you time to draw out from the moon but if they have moon into a threat, moon is tough. I can imagine that is even more so for the mardu match, which I haven't played in a long time. I guess if you fetch well there, there is less threat that they just blow up your plains which is nice, but they have more threats I'd imagine so it can be tough getting stuck under a moon.
Just got back from the tourney, went 3-1 and we all split the box (no reason to play it out, really). I guess technically I got 3rd. I was able to get all of the cards I was missing too. I went 2-0 Kiki Chord, 2-1 Burn, 2-0 Grixis Shadow (with mainboard Search for Azcanta), 1-2 Storm (game 3 was pretty close). I LOVED Field of Ruin and will likely be playing the full 4, especially with 2 Revs. Opt was great as suspected, and the instant speed thing came up multiple times throughout the night. Wasn't impressed by Secure, will probably cut it, but Clique was great, and so was mainboard Blessed Alliance. The Settle the Wreckage never came up, but I suspect it's not necessary -- it wouldn't have been stellar against the Birds of Paradise deck, and the uncounterability of Verdict by far trumps the instant-speed of Wreckage against Shadow. I think I'd only play it if I expected Dredge to be big and needed the overlap (but I'm prolly cutting something for the 4rd Verdict main anyways). I'm not sure I remember enough to make a full report, so...
Is your basic plains count at 3? I've heard people say that blood moon is laughable and use that as justification for cutting down to 2 plains. I never want to be on 2 plains. Luckily Ponza tends to have very few threats, so they often give you time to draw out from the moon but if they have moon into a threat, moon is tough. I can imagine that is even more so for the mardu match, which I haven't played in a long time. I guess if you fetch well there, there is less threat that they just blow up your plains which is nice, but they have more threats I'd imagine so it can be tough getting stuck under a moon.
I play only 2 Plains, but that's because I want as few non-U sources for Logic Knot and Cryptic as possible -- one Plains is the absolute minimum, but I feel like 2 is the break even point for them.
I play only 2 Plains, but that's because I want as few non-U sources for Logic Knot and Cryptic as possible -- one Plains is the absolute minimum, but I feel like 2 is the break even point for them.
I suppose this makes sense if you're playing logic knot. I don't play knot though, and one of my often stated reasons is because it isn't trivial to get UU for turn 2, and I don't really want to warp my mana base for it (a lot of players are even including extra fetches, which I think is correct if you want knot). My only heavy blue color cards are Snap, Cryptic and Jace, and they dont require heavy colors until turn 4ish, so I think I'd prefer to just play as many outs to blood moon as I can. I also generally think it's correct to go as heavy on plains as possible vs island because of Spreading Seas and Azcanta. It's not pretty having to seas your own lands, but it is definitely something that comes up, less so now with Field of Ruin though. Azcanta also produces blue mana.
I suppose this makes sense if you're playing logic knot. I don't play knot though, and one of my often stated reasons is because it isn't trivial to get UU for turn 2, and I don't really want to warp my mana base for it (a lot of players are even including extra fetches, which I think is correct if you want knot). My only heavy blue color cards are Snap, Cryptic and Jace, and they dont require heavy colors until turn 4ish, so I think I'd prefer to just play as many outs to blood moon as I can. I also generally think it's correct to go as heavy on plains as possible vs island because of Spreading Seas and Azcanta. It's not pretty having to seas your own lands, but it is definitely something that comes up, less so now with Field of Ruin though. Azcanta also produces blue mana.
It's actually beneficial to play a couple more fetches for better Blood Moon insurance early on. I wouldn't recommend relying on Seas and Azcanta to fix your blue mana tho, seeing as you need the blue mana to play them in the first place (and you need Search to flip before it can fix your blue as well, which ironically incentivizes more fetchlands). Plus, I definitely do NOT want to be Seas'ing my own mana unless there's already a Moon in play. In fact, with my manabase I think I've had to Seas myself involuntarily 1 time, and never had a problem casting Knot/Cryptic other than that 1 time.
Edit: I just realized I never posted the manabase for the list I played using Field:
It's actually beneficial to play a couple more fetches for better Blood Moon insurance early on.
This is not necessarily true, the additional fetchlands can only fetch basics of one type of mana you would need in a 2 color deck and if they are taking the place of the basics of the other type, then they are actually reducing your chance of being resilient against moon and even more so if you haven't drawn the extra fetchland prior to the moon hitting the field, which most of the time you will not given that opponent is probably on more moons than you are additional fetches. For example, if you play a Scalding Tarn over a Plains, you are increasing your insurance for blue mana against blood moon prior to hitting the field, but reducing your insurance against moon for white mana always AND for blue mana after moon hits the field. My point was that the white mana should be at a premium for protection against moon because of the relative amount of sources in the deck. In your mana base for example, if they moon you when you have an Island and a glacial fortress in play, your chance of drawing a white source is 2/x where x the number of cards left in library, yet your chance of finding another blue source are 8/x due to spreading seas. The difference in these numbers cant be overstated once you realize that you often have multiple draw steps to find your out - The difference between 2 outs and 3 outs is about 2% over one draw, but increases in a very meaningful way with each potential draw after that. This is why I always prioritize fetching white sources if I think a moon is likely to be in my opponents deck.
I agree that you don't want to seas your own lands, no one does, the point is that it can be done, and often is the correct line. I find it strange that you've had to seas your own land only once ever. I watched two good UW streamers play yesterday, and both of them Seas'd one of their own lands at least once. I think I can safely say that I probably seas myself about once in 5 matches, if not more, but I'll definitely try to pay more attention to how often that comes up.
None of that is to say that running less plains or more fetches is objectively wrong. Just depends on where your priorities are. I just want my mana base to be as consistent as possible across all matchups, rather than enabling power in my deck (Threshold, Delve, delirium etc.)
I’ve tried my hand at various decks over the past few months in my quest to settle on a third Modern deck (alongside Living End and GB Elves), but ultimately a lot of the decks I was playing were too similar to what I already had. This experience led me to explore some U Control options, and upon watching some games with this deck I knew instantly that this is where I need to be!
I’ve only been able to play ~20 proxy games, but between those and reading a lot here, I think I have a solid grasp on how I’d like to proceed. I would greatly appreciate any feedback on the below choices before buying into the deck. First, the landbase:
25 lands seems perfect for a newer pilot—I won’t experiment with the established land count just yet. I’m very high on Field of Ruin, hence the playset, but I do own Tec Edge and GQ as well. My main question is what fits best in the final flex slot. Mystic Gate? Temple of Enlightenment? A second Fountain or Farmland? A fourth Fortress? I don’t really want to buy into all of those options, so I guess my question is: which would you start with?
I’m basically committed to running these cards in these numbers, unless someone has a compelling argument otherwise. You’ll have noticed the lack of one-mana cantrips and the fact that we’re only at 54 cards. That’s because, in my amateur estimation, I can go one of two ways with the remaining slots:
This setup taps out a lot more, but it digs for answers better and scales into a more dominant late game. The Alliance feels nice here, but it could be a lot of other cards, including a second Search for Azcanta. Jace Beleren is another thought. He might not be quite strong enough, but I do think he fits in nicely.
Am I on the right track with how I’m evaluating the cards in context? If not, where did I go astray? If so, any suggestions as to which setup I should run with to start?
I won’t post my prospective sideboard just yet, mainly because it depends heavily on what my maindeck ends up looking like.
Sorry for the lengthy post. Thanks for all the great discussion here! I’ve learned a lot, and look forward to contributing as I get more experienced with this fantastic deck.
UW got 11th at the Modern Open this weekend. Key takeaways from that list are 4 Field of Ruin, 1 Settle the Wreckage maindeck instead of 3rd Verdict, and a maindeck Disallow.
Search for Azcanta has yet to do anything in tournament play. Surprised to see so many people here still high on it.
UW got 11th at the Modern Open this weekend. Key takeaways from that list are 4 Field of Ruin, 1 Settle the Wreckage maindeck instead of 3rd Verdict, and a maindeck Disallow.
Search for Azcanta has yet to do anything in tournament play. Surprised to see so many people here still high on it.
UW got 11th at the Modern Open this weekend. Key takeaways from that list are 4 Field of Ruin, 1 Settle the Wreckage maindeck instead of 3rd Verdict, and a maindeck Disallow.
Search for Azcanta has yet to do anything in tournament play. Surprised to see so many people here still high on it.
Field of Ruin is great. Settle and Disallow main are interesting, I think I would be willing to give settle a try main, I think it's close to as good as verdict most of the time, and a lot better in a lot of places but much worse in a few spots as well. Disallow I think is too slow, if I was going to run a 3 mana counter it would probably be supreme will, but I'm just not super high on counters in this deck anyways. A few is necessary, but not really a central theme of the deck.
Azcanta came 2nd in an IQ last week, and some players in this thread are 5-0'ing with it online. I've personally been doing fairly well with it online as well, and I'm not sure of my exact win rate because I don't keep track, but I haven't gone less than 3-2 with it in a couple weeks. One of the other issues is that UW isn't as good right now as it was a couple months ago, there are way more steam vents decks right now which is tough for UW. So it might not be the case that Azcanta isn't the right card for UW as much as UW isn't the right cryptic command deck for the meta - Lightning Bolt looks real appealing right now after looking at that SCG top-8.
Got another 5-0 after watching Benny's stream today. My deck is nearly the same except I had a Clique instead of his Think Twice and like 2 different sideboard cards. I kind of agree with what he said earlier that Clique in the main is iffy, I played against Burn twice, Mardu, Affinity and Esper, 4 of those decks just had hands full of easy removal on my Clique right after I cast it. I am trying to decide on what card I want in that spot, it's between Snap #3 which seems to be getting more common, Shadow of Doubt which I was playing in place of TT for awhile and it totally rocked, or possibly Jace #2. Or I could just try Think Twice again, sometimes all you need is to draw an extra card or 2.
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2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Wall of Omens
2 Spell Queller
Enchantments: 6
4 Spreading Seas
2 Detention Sphere
Instants: 19
4 Opt
4 Path to Exile
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Mana Leak
1 Negate
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Think Twice
3 Cryptic Command
1 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Gideon of the Trials
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Sorcery: 2
2 Supreme Verdict
Lands: 24
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
3 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Irrigated Farmland
5 Island
2 Plains
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Runed Halo
2 Stony Silence
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Disenchant
1 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Timely Reinforcements
My sideboard plan is -2 Think Twice, -2 Supreme Verdict, +1 Blessed Alliance, +1 Dispel, +1 Negate, +1 Timely
What can I do to make this MU better? When I first built this deck I excluded the Wall of Omens, but decided to add it after seeing how atrocious my burn MU was, and now it isn't much better, I'm 2-5 in matches against it.
Thank you! Yeah, I just meant that if I see a Rev on top with Opt and don't want it, I can bottom it -- not that Opt would objectively help me not to find them. It was meant more of a "for what it's worth" than a justification. I agree with you. =D
What would you cut for an Azcanta (probably just a Rev, as I know you're not fond of that card), and is it worth it just to have 1 in the deck?
I'm not too concerned with the lands because I know that at least one guy up there has played Dredge in the past and will be attending. It also exiles vs. Finks and Thrun, so I feel like it's justified to play 1 even if it's not the best.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
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EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
There is nothing wrong with that as it is a great diverse deck and popularity isnt that important. . Maybe im overthinking. Gimme some Feedback !
UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
@basky45 - Your list looks like it should be okay with burn, you might just be having some bad luck. Your board plan could be improved a little as well I think - if you're going to be cutting 4 drops it should be cryptic over verdict. Verdict is pretty good against Eidolon and they are gonna be empty handed by the time you can pass the turn and hold up 4 Mana for cryptic. Shadow of doubt is probably too slow against them as well, you could probably cut that for either runed halo or Geist. Not sure which is better, I don't run halo but it seems like it would be decent, making Eidolon one sided in your favor seems great. I might also be tempted to cut sphere for Geist of saint traft. They are both going to neutralize a threat, but Geist has the benefit of being a good topdeck after you stabilize. sometimes you need to.close quickly after you stabilize.
@dylanyad - Jeskai does seem well positioned now, one of the reasons as you mentioned is that they have a better store match, but also lightning bolt is just better than it has been for awhile. When the meta was being dominated by Shadow, Eldrazi and shift, Bolt looked pretty miserable. Those decks still are top tier, but they hold a much smaller percentage of the overall field now and most other decks are susceptible to bolt. I often finding myself wishing I could play a couple more spot removal spells that dont ramp the opponent. Just being able to survive long enough to cast a verdict can be tough sometimes. I think UW can continue to be great, we might just have to adapt a bit if the meta opens up too much. UW was a great meta deck because of how good spreading seas was in that meta that was hostile to Bolt. Shadow and Eldrazi and Shift can all get over whelmed by spreading seas, but when those decks represent a smaller fraction of what we can expect to see, maybe we should let spreading seas sit out for a bit? It's probably wrong, but UW has always felt like a meta dependent deck to me.
Chantu9y - you should post your whole list for reference, hard to make judgements based on just a few cards. Personally, I don't think crucible is in great spot right now, it's going to be too slow against most decks and the matchups where it shines are already decent matchups imo. That said, I think 24 lands and a crucible could work depending how many can trips you run, which is why it's important to see the whole list, but I've always like 25 lands in the list because we have so much to do with our Mana that o feel like we lose more often being Mana screwed rather than flooded.
UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
So here is my decklist. Like it had said, just started playing this deck so please don't judge the sb lol. Im using this time to understand the deck and still have to buy and upgrade my sb but basically pieced this one together from what I've used with my old UW Emeria Control deck. Looking to have a real sb come next month, but if you guys have any suggestions on "must haves" let me know!
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Wall of Omens
1 Gideon of the Trials
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Gideon Jura
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Mana Leak
1 Negate
1 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Cryptic Command
3 Supreme Verdict
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Spreading Seas
2 Detention Sphere
4 Flooded Strand
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Hallowed Fountain
6 Island
3 Plains
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Condemn
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
1 Runed Halo
2 Stony Silence
3 Leyline of Sanctity
UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
As far as must haves for the sideboard, looks like you've got Stony covered, probably would recommend at least 1 Rest in Peace and the last must have would be a 4th sweeper, most would say 4th verdict and that's probably right, but I really like Settle the Wreckage in that slot as well. I also think Dispel, Negate and Disdainful stroke are also pretty common across most peoples board, I personally would never not have Dispel and at least 1 of the other 2. The other common ones are Clique, Geist of Saint Traft and/or Queller but I honestly don't think any one of those last 3 are necessary for sideboard plans, though they can be very good.
1st: 2-1 vs Eldrazi and Taxes
2nd: 2-1 vs Ponza (this match up is absurdly draw dependant. If they go first and start casting ld/bm on the 2nd turn, you're screwed. Can't recommend keeping a hand with no early counters)
3rd: 2-0 vs Grixis Delver. He had AV after sideboard which can be a pain since we really don't have that many hard counters)
4th: 2-1 vs Mardu. This deck keeps becoming more popular and it's way too skill intensive. They sometimes get you with bm and they have way too much ca. One strategy that seems to be working is attacking their sacred foundries since they only 2 of them as white sources in the deck.
5th: 2-1 vs Storm. G1 is way too sad, they can just take their time comboing off since we really have no pressure. It seems overkill but I usually keep all 4 verdicts after sb.
Is your basic plains count at 3? I've heard people say that blood moon is laughable and use that as justification for cutting down to 2 plains. I never want to be on 2 plains. Luckily Ponza tends to have very few threats, so they often give you time to draw out from the moon but if they have moon into a threat, moon is tough. I can imagine that is even more so for the mardu match, which I haven't played in a long time. I guess if you fetch well there, there is less threat that they just blow up your plains which is nice, but they have more threats I'd imagine so it can be tough getting stuck under a moon.
I play only 2 Plains, but that's because I want as few non-U sources for Logic Knot and Cryptic as possible -- one Plains is the absolute minimum, but I feel like 2 is the break even point for them.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
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I suppose this makes sense if you're playing logic knot. I don't play knot though, and one of my often stated reasons is because it isn't trivial to get UU for turn 2, and I don't really want to warp my mana base for it (a lot of players are even including extra fetches, which I think is correct if you want knot). My only heavy blue color cards are Snap, Cryptic and Jace, and they dont require heavy colors until turn 4ish, so I think I'd prefer to just play as many outs to blood moon as I can. I also generally think it's correct to go as heavy on plains as possible vs island because of Spreading Seas and Azcanta. It's not pretty having to seas your own lands, but it is definitely something that comes up, less so now with Field of Ruin though. Azcanta also produces blue mana.
It's actually beneficial to play a couple more fetches for better Blood Moon insurance early on. I wouldn't recommend relying on Seas and Azcanta to fix your blue mana tho, seeing as you need the blue mana to play them in the first place (and you need Search to flip before it can fix your blue as well, which ironically incentivizes more fetchlands). Plus, I definitely do NOT want to be Seas'ing my own mana unless there's already a Moon in play. In fact, with my manabase I think I've had to Seas myself involuntarily 1 time, and never had a problem casting Knot/Cryptic other than that 1 time.
Edit: I just realized I never posted the manabase for the list I played using Field:
4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Field of Ruin
2x Tectonic Edge
2x Glacial Fortress
4x Flooded Strand
1x Scalding Tarn
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Plains
5x Island
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
This is not necessarily true, the additional fetchlands can only fetch basics of one type of mana you would need in a 2 color deck and if they are taking the place of the basics of the other type, then they are actually reducing your chance of being resilient against moon and even more so if you haven't drawn the extra fetchland prior to the moon hitting the field, which most of the time you will not given that opponent is probably on more moons than you are additional fetches. For example, if you play a Scalding Tarn over a Plains, you are increasing your insurance for blue mana against blood moon prior to hitting the field, but reducing your insurance against moon for white mana always AND for blue mana after moon hits the field. My point was that the white mana should be at a premium for protection against moon because of the relative amount of sources in the deck. In your mana base for example, if they moon you when you have an Island and a glacial fortress in play, your chance of drawing a white source is 2/x where x the number of cards left in library, yet your chance of finding another blue source are 8/x due to spreading seas. The difference in these numbers cant be overstated once you realize that you often have multiple draw steps to find your out - The difference between 2 outs and 3 outs is about 2% over one draw, but increases in a very meaningful way with each potential draw after that. This is why I always prioritize fetching white sources if I think a moon is likely to be in my opponents deck.
I agree that you don't want to seas your own lands, no one does, the point is that it can be done, and often is the correct line. I find it strange that you've had to seas your own land only once ever. I watched two good UW streamers play yesterday, and both of them Seas'd one of their own lands at least once. I think I can safely say that I probably seas myself about once in 5 matches, if not more, but I'll definitely try to pay more attention to how often that comes up.
None of that is to say that running less plains or more fetches is objectively wrong. Just depends on where your priorities are. I just want my mana base to be as consistent as possible across all matchups, rather than enabling power in my deck (Threshold, Delve, delirium etc.)
I’ve tried my hand at various decks over the past few months in my quest to settle on a third Modern deck (alongside Living End and GB Elves), but ultimately a lot of the decks I was playing were too similar to what I already had. This experience led me to explore some U Control options, and upon watching some games with this deck I knew instantly that this is where I need to be!
I’ve only been able to play ~20 proxy games, but between those and reading a lot here, I think I have a solid grasp on how I’d like to proceed. I would greatly appreciate any feedback on the below choices before buying into the deck. First, the landbase:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Field of Ruin
3 Glacial Fortress
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Irrigated Farmland
1 ???
25 lands seems perfect for a newer pilot—I won’t experiment with the established land count just yet. I’m very high on Field of Ruin, hence the playset, but I do own Tec Edge and GQ as well. My main question is what fits best in the final flex slot. Mystic Gate? Temple of Enlightenment? A second Fountain or Farmland? A fourth Fortress? I don’t really want to buy into all of those options, so I guess my question is: which would you start with?
Next, the core spells:
2 Wall of Omens
4 Spreading Seas
2 Detention Sphere
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Gideon Jura
3 Supreme Verdict
3 Cryptic Command
2 Mana Leak
1 Negate
1 Sphinx’s Revelation
I’m basically committed to running these cards in these numbers, unless someone has a compelling argument otherwise. You’ll have noticed the lack of one-mana cantrips and the fact that we’re only at 54 cards. That’s because, in my amateur estimation, I can go one of two ways with the remaining slots:
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Spell Snare
This setup doesn’t dig as well, but it plays a much stronger draw-go style and incentivizes inclusion of the third Snapcaster. Alternatively:
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Blessed Alliance
This setup taps out a lot more, but it digs for answers better and scales into a more dominant late game. The Alliance feels nice here, but it could be a lot of other cards, including a second Search for Azcanta. Jace Beleren is another thought. He might not be quite strong enough, but I do think he fits in nicely.
Am I on the right track with how I’m evaluating the cards in context? If not, where did I go astray? If so, any suggestions as to which setup I should run with to start?
I won’t post my prospective sideboard just yet, mainly because it depends heavily on what my maindeck ends up looking like.
Sorry for the lengthy post. Thanks for all the great discussion here! I’ve learned a lot, and look forward to contributing as I get more experienced with this fantastic deck.
Search for Azcanta has yet to do anything in tournament play. Surprised to see so many people here still high on it.
Congrats, how was field of ruin?
Field of Ruin is great. Settle and Disallow main are interesting, I think I would be willing to give settle a try main, I think it's close to as good as verdict most of the time, and a lot better in a lot of places but much worse in a few spots as well. Disallow I think is too slow, if I was going to run a 3 mana counter it would probably be supreme will, but I'm just not super high on counters in this deck anyways. A few is necessary, but not really a central theme of the deck.
Azcanta came 2nd in an IQ last week, and some players in this thread are 5-0'ing with it online. I've personally been doing fairly well with it online as well, and I'm not sure of my exact win rate because I don't keep track, but I haven't gone less than 3-2 with it in a couple weeks. One of the other issues is that UW isn't as good right now as it was a couple months ago, there are way more steam vents decks right now which is tough for UW. So it might not be the case that Azcanta isn't the right card for UW as much as UW isn't the right cryptic command deck for the meta - Lightning Bolt looks real appealing right now after looking at that SCG top-8.