i'm new to this deck and I just wanted to ask how often you win with your Gideons? is an 1-1 split enough? or would it be better to play 1 Jura and 2 Trials?
and if not....how to use Gideon of the Trials correctly? Are you guys making the emblem every single time?
I feel like the 2-1 Trials-Jura split is pretty much confirmed by now, so that's what I would run with. I tend to win with gideon perhaps 2/3 of the time, the other 1/3 being consumed by the combination of my mainboard Elspeth and Colonnades. As far as what ability to use, I normally plus to either lock down a threat immediately or to get Gid out of bolt range. I only emblem him immediately in combo matchups like AdNaus.
I deleted my previous post cause it wasn't very constructive and I was a bit salty... I just started playing the deck seriously on MTGO and it's like a completely different game than in paper. I lost a match to lantern where I had stony silence in play with gideon + emblem and he had no possible way of winning and he had 2 minutes left on the timer compared to me having over 10. I was just F6ing through turns to get it over with faster and he nature's claimed my stony silence while I had 2 dispels sitting in my hand. I thought I was just yielding to no possible play, but instead I was skipping everything.
Then I lost a match to merfolk where I had it completely on lockdown and Sphinx Reved for 6, but forgot that cursecatcher was a thing with text on it
I should have been at least 4-1 but went 2-3. Better than my first league where I got turn 3d by Ad Nauseum and Storm in back to back matches. I actually almost beat the Ad Naus guy, but he had exactly the right 7 cards to win again, double angel's grace and pact of negation being his last card to counter my counter. Ad Nauseum is a matchup I had never played before, I think I played it as perfectly as I could, but I just had no possible line to victory through that. Also the gideon emblem doesn't really do it against lightning storm is there something I'm missing on how to stop this deck?
I've also been land flooding HARD on MTGO compared to how the deck plays in paper, I'm starting to think 24 lands with crucible in the main is what I'm going to start playing. I had 1 game where I drew 15 cards total and 13 of them were lands, but I ended up winning that match.
In my experience, the decision on whether or not I make an emblem is very context dependent. I like to make an emblem quickly against combo, but otherwise I'm only making an emblem if I'm about to die. There are niche scenarios where I also make the emblem (ie, I drop Gideon into an empty board against non-red, I'm about to cast Gideon Jura, etc), but most of the time I find that plusing or bashing are more useful to me.
Yeah, that's where I am too with Trials. I finally sleeved this up and tested against Jund and ummm Rakdos Fling. And Turn 3 Emblem just never works unless if you can block Gideon being attacked or damaged against decks that play dudes. I have gone into it from turn 1 path to turn 2 Wall to turn 3 Gideon. But it's the only time. But good god was it back breaking for him.
Just remember you're playing control. When in doubt, stall, keep mana up, and do your best to reduce damage. Let him waste his resources, and stock pile yours. And Trials is best, when he has to dump a bunch of them to get rid of it, because if he hopes to win. He will have to spend them.
Love that 8th place list. 4 verdict and Crucible main, no Rev; thing of beauty.
I like something in between this list and the 2nd place list. Most people I play crucible against seem to really try to do anything to get rid of it, making it easier to resolve some of your other threats. I think 24 lands + crucible is fine, I flood so much with 25.
I miss having Elspeth, Sun's Champion in the 75 too. Without her I sometimes run out of threats and games go on forever where she could close it, she's also a good target for Jace ultimate especially if you're running 2 Jaces.
Relic of Progenitus also seems to be getting more popular than rest in peace I'm going to give that a shot as well. I may also try Spell Quellers again in my paper deck, but don't feel like getting them on MTGO at the moment.
I deleted my previous post cause it wasn't very constructive and I was a bit salty... I just started playing the deck seriously on MTGO and it's like a completely different game than in paper. I lost a match to lantern where I had stony silence in play with gideon + emblem and he had no possible way of winning and he had 2 minutes left on the timer compared to me having over 10. I was just F6ing through turns to get it over with faster and he nature's claimed my stony silence while I had 2 dispels sitting in my hand. I thought I was just yielding to no possible play, but instead I was skipping everything.
Then I lost a match to merfolk where I had it completely on lockdown and Sphinx Reved for 6, but forgot that cursecatcher was a thing with text on it
I should have been at least 4-1 but went 2-3. Better than my first league where I got turn 3d by Ad Nauseum and Storm in back to back matches. I actually almost beat the Ad Naus guy, but he had exactly the right 7 cards to win again, double angel's grace and pact of negation being his last card to counter my counter. Ad Nauseum is a matchup I had never played before, I think I played it as perfectly as I could, but I just had no possible line to victory through that. Also the gideon emblem doesn't really do it against lightning storm is there something I'm missing on how to stop this deck?
I've also been land flooding HARD on MTGO compared to how the deck plays in paper, I'm starting to think 24 lands with crucible in the main is what I'm going to start playing. I had 1 game where I drew 15 cards total and 13 of them were lands, but I ended up winning that match.
Sorry for the bad MTGO beats haha. I play on XMage, and it has similar things that you just have to learn by experience.
Anyways, I don't see what you were saying about the Gid emblem against AdNaus -- if they Storm you for lethal, you don't die since you still have a Gideon in play. If they redirect the damage to Gideon, he takes ALL of the damage and you take none. So duh, you don't die. The only way they can win with Gid+emblem in play is to either bounce the Gid and Storm you or kill the Gid with Storm and Labratory Maniac + draw spell you -- both semi-mana intensive. Pre-sideboard, I honestly don't think they can even beat a Gid+emblem. They only have 2-3 Pacts to fight an Ad Naus through, and have to use LabMan to win (no mainboard bounce spells like Echoing Truth, it's usually sb), so you just sit back on a Gid attacking each turn, Paths, and a couple of counters -- you don't need much either, since Gid is a pretty fast clock. G2/3, I've found Spell Queller to be of critical importance -- they literally can't win until T4 without 2 Spirit Guides in the perfect hand, so throw out T2 Snap and T3 Queller on basically anything and you can clock them early while disrupting their setup. If they stumble at all (running out of cantrips, missing lands, drawing too many Spirit Guides, etc.) then you can end-step more threats or draw spells and just force them to go off too early. I even bring in Ceremonios Rejection to hit Pentad Prism and Lotus Bloom. Just hammer their setup until you have a critical mass of cards/lands or until you can force down a Gideon and tempo them out. Beware that Phyrexian Unlife can put a wrench in your clock and gain them a few turns.
Love that 8th place list. 4 verdict and Crucible main, no Rev; thing of beauty.
I like something in between this list and the 2nd place list. Most people I play crucible against seem to really try to do anything to get rid of it, making it easier to resolve some of your other threats. I think 24 lands + crucible is fine, I flood so much with 25.
I miss having Elspeth, Sun's Champion in the 75 too. Without her I sometimes run out of threats and games go on forever where she could close it, she's also a good target for Jace ultimate especially if you're running 2 Jaces.
Relic of Progenitus also seems to be getting more popular than rest in peace I'm going to give that a shot as well. I may also try Spell Quellers again in my paper deck, but don't feel like getting them on MTGO at the moment.
I don't really get the relics. I play paper, so maybe mtgo meta is adapting to RIP? I also don't really understand 3 copies of Disdainful Stroke in the board either. Seems great against Tron variants and scapeshift decks, but that feels too narrow to warrant 3 SB slots imo. But Tron is a fine matchup, so really it's 3 slots dedicated to Shift decks? If that's the case, wouldn't a split between Stroke and Flash freeze be better? Instead of being Shift/Tron hedge it would be Shift/Burn/Coco hedge. I dunno, stroke just feels weird.
It's not surprising to me that players want to get rid of crucible in your experience. Crucible is similar to a 3 Mana planeswalker in this deck; it gains you an advantage every turn and will eventually win you the game if unchecked (GQ/Tec lock or rebuying). I wish there was a discard outlet in our MD that could also take advantage of the lands that get stuck on hand when we have crucible out, but I can't think of any outside of Thirst for knowledge and I just don't think that interaction is worth it.
Hmm, I may have conceded when I actually had the game won then, didn't realize all the damage had to go to the same source, I'm dumb. One more question about playing against Valakut: If they just play out their Valakuts do you spreading seas / tec edge them or just leave them and go for the mountains? I can't decide which is the better play. I had a Valakut player (who I beat) message me asking why I kept SSing and destroying his green sources and not just go for his Valakuts that were in play, but I usually feel like it's just better to get rid of as many mountains as possible.
Hmm, I may have conceded when I actually had the game won then, didn't realize all the damage had to go to the same source, I'm dumb. One more question about playing against Valakut: If they just play out their Valakuts do you spreading seas / tec edge them or just leave them and go for the mountains? I can't decide which is the better play. I had a Valakut player (who I beat) message me asking why I kept SSing and destroying his green sources and not just go for his Valakuts that were in play, but I usually feel like it's just better to get rid of as many mountains as possible.
They have fewer Valakuts than mountains, and the mountains do nothing but provide mana on their own. If you hit a mountain with a seas, they'll just draw another of the 13 that they play (not to mention Prismatic Omen making fetchlands and basic forests into mountains). If you hit a Valakut, that's one down out of 4, which is much less replaceable. I think it's correct to hit Valakuts.
Hmm, I may have conceded when I actually had the game won then, didn't realize all the damage had to go to the same source, I'm dumb. One more question about playing against Valakut: If they just play out their Valakuts do you spreading seas / tec edge them or just leave them and go for the mountains? I can't decide which is the better play. I had a Valakut player (who I beat) message me asking why I kept SSing and destroying his green sources and not just go for his Valakuts that were in play, but I usually feel like it's just better to get rid of as many mountains as possible.
As annhihilator pointed out, it's generally easier to go for the Valakuts since there are so few of them. It isn't always the case though; sometimes you may find your opponent short on resources and the game has played out in such a way that you're certain thier last card in hand is either Titan or Shift. In this case, if you think you can lock up the game within a couple of turns, and they only have a few green sources in play, it could be correct to cut them off green. This line comes up more often when your opener has Spreading Seas in it because sometimes you just need the can-trip and don't have the luxury to wait for a Valakut as the target. You just have to play the match enough times to develop your intuition of which approach to take.
New to this deck. Added it to my repitoir as I've been on just merfolk for a couple years. While I'm really comfortable fighting against Aggro and control mirrors (not perfect but comfortable) I'm weak against combo and in particular valakut. I've always hated that deck but now it seems like I should have a better matchup against it. Is there a primer on that matchup along with other combo matchups someone could point me towards?
UW Control is known for a good MU against E-Tron, but I struggle against it. Therefore I would ask you about your experiences with the deck. My last game for e.g. went like this (post board):
My T2: Stony silence
His T3: Casts O-stone. Has 2/3 Tron online. I counter with negate to protect stony silence
(The rounds between is just draw go, I didnt drew a thread, except colonnade in T5)
His T7: Tron online. He casts Ulamog. I counter with C-Command
His T8: Successfully casts World Breaker and removes stony silence and uses his spheres & co. I path WB EOT
His T9: Plays Sanctum of Ugin. Casts Wurmcoil engine which is pathed immediately. My negate also counters his Karn.
My T10: Cast Jace AOT
His T10: Casts Ugin, saccs Sanctum of Ugin and gets Ulamog. Removes Jace with Ugin
His T11: He casts the 2nd Ulamog in game, which got pathed immediately via Snapcaster + path. The 2nd Ulamog Ability puts me down to 4 lands. He also casts Thragtusk.
His T12: Removes my Snapcaster with Ugin and beats me down to death the following turns with thragtusk.
Unfortunately I didn't had time and cards to turn the tides because I had to handle his threads every turn.
Furthermore I just drew a single ghost quarter the whole game, I only could delay his tron for 1 turn.
My list is pretty stock (1 blessed alliance instead of think twice, 4 Snapcaster instead of 2/2 Wall split). My SB is as follows:
Tron is one deck I play against ALL the time with UW and I never lose anymore. Don't ever take out your mana leaks, they are good early and even late game. If you have Cryptic + Leak in hand later in the game you can hard counter 1 spell and then mana leak the next. Obviously countering an early TKS, Smasher, or Karn is high priority too. Against E-Tron I bring in Timely Reinforcements if I have it, but I sideboard pretty lightly overall. Blessed Alliance seems good vs them, Geist not so much. Crucible obviously if you have it, probably only 1 negate vs E-Tron, 2 vs traditional.
On a side note I beat storm in a league last night I won game 1 on the draw which is insane. Lost a long game 2 and then won another long game 3. I'm much more comfortable playing against storm than Valakut still, even though Valakut is a better matchup I think.
I do think a strong build might emerge with two Jace in the main, but I think it would be more of a tool-box archetype with a lot of 1 & 2-ofs in the list.
I was just dead wrong here. I replaced a Negate with a second Jace and I'm loving it! I'm basically playing the list that won the Modern Challenge.
So I guess I figured out why relic was a 4-of in the sideboard for the 8th place list for the modern challenge (see reference list below) - They are using crucible main deck! With only 24 land you can't really afford to be siding out Crucible unless you are siding in a land. That means you can't really have RIP in the board unless you're also willing to dedicate a SB slot to a land for the matchups where you need RIP (bringing in land against Dredge seems bad). I think that when I do decide to try out a crucible MD list I will probably take a similar Dredge approach and eschew RIP, but I will probably run a 2/2 Surgical/Relic split to hedge a bit against combo decks as well.
The list that won the Modern Challenge doesn't have enough Plains against Blood Moon. I'm not sure if just swapping an Island is best or taking out the Temple. The Irrigated Farmland is terrific, especially since fetch-able.
Hey guys! I am a Jeskai player but was thinking of trying just UW to spice it up. I was wondering though, are there any lists that run similar to a draw-go form of control? Like not running spreading seas and planeswalkers but instead more forms of counters and draw spells? I don't really want to go that route with the deck if possible haha
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Hey guys! I am a Jeskai player but was thinking of trying just UW to spice it up. I was wondering though, are there any lists that run similar to a draw-go form of control? Like not running spreading seas and planeswalkers but instead more forms of counters and draw spells? I don't really want to go that route with the deck if possible haha
There is technically a list, but if you are gonna play UW you need to play walkers and Seas. If you're not gonna, just play Jeskai. It'll be more fun and better.
Hey guys! I am a Jeskai player but was thinking of trying just UW to spice it up. I was wondering though, are there any lists that run similar to a draw-go form of control? Like not running spreading seas and planeswalkers but instead more forms of counters and draw spells? I don't really want to go that route with the deck if possible haha
I'm a former Jeskai Twin, Jeskai Nahiri player (still a Lantern player as well) and I absolutely hated this deck for the first couple of weeks and my results reflected my attitude and experience level. Even as a Lantern player who understands resource denial, my lack of experience with a land destruction deck showed; there is a distinct learning curve. However, the deck is great and trust me, give it a chance and you will start loving it because you will be in total control a lot of the time!!
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I feel like the 2-1 Trials-Jura split is pretty much confirmed by now, so that's what I would run with. I tend to win with gideon perhaps 2/3 of the time, the other 1/3 being consumed by the combination of my mainboard Elspeth and Colonnades. As far as what ability to use, I normally plus to either lock down a threat immediately or to get Gid out of bolt range. I only emblem him immediately in combo matchups like AdNaus.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Then I lost a match to merfolk where I had it completely on lockdown and Sphinx Reved for 6, but forgot that cursecatcher was a thing with text on it
I should have been at least 4-1 but went 2-3. Better than my first league where I got turn 3d by Ad Nauseum and Storm in back to back matches. I actually almost beat the Ad Naus guy, but he had exactly the right 7 cards to win again, double angel's grace and pact of negation being his last card to counter my counter. Ad Nauseum is a matchup I had never played before, I think I played it as perfectly as I could, but I just had no possible line to victory through that. Also the gideon emblem doesn't really do it against lightning storm is there something I'm missing on how to stop this deck?
I've also been land flooding HARD on MTGO compared to how the deck plays in paper, I'm starting to think 24 lands with crucible in the main is what I'm going to start playing. I had 1 game where I drew 15 cards total and 13 of them were lands, but I ended up winning that match.
Just remember you're playing control. When in doubt, stall, keep mana up, and do your best to reduce damage. Let him waste his resources, and stock pile yours. And Trials is best, when he has to dump a bunch of them to get rid of it, because if he hopes to win. He will have to spend them.
I miss having Elspeth, Sun's Champion in the 75 too. Without her I sometimes run out of threats and games go on forever where she could close it, she's also a good target for Jace ultimate especially if you're running 2 Jaces.
Relic of Progenitus also seems to be getting more popular than rest in peace I'm going to give that a shot as well. I may also try Spell Quellers again in my paper deck, but don't feel like getting them on MTGO at the moment.
Sorry for the bad MTGO beats haha. I play on XMage, and it has similar things that you just have to learn by experience.
Anyways, I don't see what you were saying about the Gid emblem against AdNaus -- if they Storm you for lethal, you don't die since you still have a Gideon in play. If they redirect the damage to Gideon, he takes ALL of the damage and you take none. So duh, you don't die. The only way they can win with Gid+emblem in play is to either bounce the Gid and Storm you or kill the Gid with Storm and Labratory Maniac + draw spell you -- both semi-mana intensive. Pre-sideboard, I honestly don't think they can even beat a Gid+emblem. They only have 2-3 Pacts to fight an Ad Naus through, and have to use LabMan to win (no mainboard bounce spells like Echoing Truth, it's usually sb), so you just sit back on a Gid attacking each turn, Paths, and a couple of counters -- you don't need much either, since Gid is a pretty fast clock. G2/3, I've found Spell Queller to be of critical importance -- they literally can't win until T4 without 2 Spirit Guides in the perfect hand, so throw out T2 Snap and T3 Queller on basically anything and you can clock them early while disrupting their setup. If they stumble at all (running out of cantrips, missing lands, drawing too many Spirit Guides, etc.) then you can end-step more threats or draw spells and just force them to go off too early. I even bring in Ceremonios Rejection to hit Pentad Prism and Lotus Bloom. Just hammer their setup until you have a critical mass of cards/lands or until you can force down a Gideon and tempo them out. Beware that Phyrexian Unlife can put a wrench in your clock and gain them a few turns.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I don't really get the relics. I play paper, so maybe mtgo meta is adapting to RIP? I also don't really understand 3 copies of Disdainful Stroke in the board either. Seems great against Tron variants and scapeshift decks, but that feels too narrow to warrant 3 SB slots imo. But Tron is a fine matchup, so really it's 3 slots dedicated to Shift decks? If that's the case, wouldn't a split between Stroke and Flash freeze be better? Instead of being Shift/Tron hedge it would be Shift/Burn/Coco hedge. I dunno, stroke just feels weird.
It's not surprising to me that players want to get rid of crucible in your experience. Crucible is similar to a 3 Mana planeswalker in this deck; it gains you an advantage every turn and will eventually win you the game if unchecked (GQ/Tec lock or rebuying). I wish there was a discard outlet in our MD that could also take advantage of the lands that get stuck on hand when we have crucible out, but I can't think of any outside of Thirst for knowledge and I just don't think that interaction is worth it.
They have fewer Valakuts than mountains, and the mountains do nothing but provide mana on their own. If you hit a mountain with a seas, they'll just draw another of the 13 that they play (not to mention Prismatic Omen making fetchlands and basic forests into mountains). If you hit a Valakut, that's one down out of 4, which is much less replaceable. I think it's correct to hit Valakuts.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
As annhihilator pointed out, it's generally easier to go for the Valakuts since there are so few of them. It isn't always the case though; sometimes you may find your opponent short on resources and the game has played out in such a way that you're certain thier last card in hand is either Titan or Shift. In this case, if you think you can lock up the game within a couple of turns, and they only have a few green sources in play, it could be correct to cut them off green. This line comes up more often when your opener has Spreading Seas in it because sometimes you just need the can-trip and don't have the luxury to wait for a Valakut as the target. You just have to play the match enough times to develop your intuition of which approach to take.
Sounds like you could have won that game if you didn't negate his Oblivion Stone; Stony Silence protects itself against Oblivion Stone.
On a side note I beat storm in a league last night I won game 1 on the draw which is insane. Lost a long game 2 and then won another long game 3. I'm much more comfortable playing against storm than Valakut still, even though Valakut is a better matchup I think.
I was just dead wrong here. I replaced a Negate with a second Jace and I'm loving it! I'm basically playing the list that won the Modern Challenge.
2 Gideon of the Trials
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Serum Visions
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Cryptic Command
4 Mana Leak
1 Negate
4 Path to Exile
2 Think Twice
2 Detention Sphere
4 Spreading Seas
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
5 Island
3 Plains
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Blessed Alliance
3 Disdainful Stroke
1 Dispel
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Stony Silence
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Vendilion Clique
There is technically a list, but if you are gonna play UW you need to play walkers and Seas. If you're not gonna, just play Jeskai. It'll be more fun and better.
UWR Control
BR Hollow One