I haven't found Tron to be as easy as people like to say - I have some very good Tron players in my meta - but more power to you if you've found it easy.
As you say it hits man lands - and powerful utility lands which can overwhelm us. One of my plans to beat Affinity is to cast worship and make sure I don't die from poison - GQ helps with that. With Abzan CoCo on the rise - hitting a Twonship is pretty important - not to mention the Mirror and Tron (even if you have experienced it as being easy GQ helps).
Cards like Sea Gate are just far more narrow and while helpful against grindy decks - ive found GQ not to be super terrible aginst these decks anyway - hitting ravine for example is pretty useful.
I really don't think it's worth it to add Wastes or Islands which may or may not save you against blood moon / land destruction. In the vast majority of matchups a sea gate or GQ will be better, and I would rather not concede minor advantages across the board for a mild advantage in narrow matchups.
Seal of primordium is way too narrow against moon/prison. I would rather have something instant speed so at least I can break a TKS/Displacer/Worship lock in the mirror. I'm currently running Nature's claim. Yeah it's subpar against affinity, but in reality we're basically never really outracing affinity and only trying to create a locked board state.
I really, really don't like GQ. Yes it has utility, but overwhelmingly we won't want to be in a situation where we want to sacrifice our own mana development to kill a land. The only time when I'll want to be killing my own lands for utility is past turn 5, and at that point we're looking at world breaker territory. The more I think about it the less I like utility lands, but of course this will be a point in continual flux.
Honestly your gameplan against moon decks should be to land a T3 smasher or T2/T3 TKS. I would mull aggressively to find those kinds of hands.
Also, a minor point on world breaker - yes of course it's slow against lantern but lantern games are by definition going to be slow if you haven't won by Turn 4/5. The appeal of breaker is that it needs to be exiled with a pixis or surgical and if your opponent doesn't pay attention it's one way to get out of the lock. World breaker also is an out to worship. I can't say I've been totally impressed with it, but as a sideboard card it has a bunch of random utility. Against GBx it also can't be truly discarded unlike elspeth. The fact that it's colorless and stirrings tutorable also makes it relevant a higher percentage of the time than elspeth. Don't get me wrong, elspeth is way better in the GBx matchups, but world breaker has broader applications.
The way I think of world breaker is that it provides me an advantage simply by being in the deck. It's rarely a card I want in my opener in postboard. However, given the extremely grindy nature of certain games or protentially locked board states (e.g. Worship), the likelihood of world breaker becoming relevant is somewhat high.
Matchups where world breaker is applicable:
Affinity (yes, very slow, but it pretty much locks out inkmoth as an out to worship)
Valakut (yes, it's way too slow, but it's probably better than a path or EE. Notably, it doesn't die to 2 valakut triggers. It was relevant in a game where I pathed the first primetime and then world breakered to set them back a land)
Moon / Skred / Prison decks (yes, again slow, but we have a lot of dead cards in these matchups anyway)
I find G1 v moon that hierarchs,talismans and scions are usually enough to get me over the line with early beats, postboard things are obv a lot more comfortable.
I'm a world breaker advocate for the mirror because worship is a thing...yes natures claim over state fixes this but I have issues giving fish and affinity players 4 free life so early on in the game...
Given the big mana meta I'm not sure if bantdrazi will be underrepresented at GP Brisbane but I hate boardstalls lol
I own Jund and Junk, is there a reason to buy into Bant Eldrazi?
What's the consensus on the popular good matchups and bad matchups? What archetypes is Eldrazi good and bad against?
How is the Tron matchup, does Tron ***** on this deck like every green deck, or is it more like a 40/60 matchup?
I think Bant Eldrazi has options to be good against a lot of decks - depends what you want to win against, thus MD and SB cards will move around. For example if you want better game against Affinity and Infect you play more Skyspawners and punch up Blessed Alliance and Stony Silence. If you want to grind harder against BGx type decks play more Reshapers and include 'bombs' in the sb. If you are worried about combo play more counterspells and other cards GY hate, Pithing Needle, Chalice of the Void.
It really depends on your sb configuration. If you play Stony, Natural State, Stubborn Denial, GQ, Pithing Needle - id say Tron is ok - many on here would say its favourable to good. It's certainly better then GBx. TKS and Displacer can really lock them out - and Smasher can race them - there are many outs.
I have also had ghost quarter help to slow merfolk down. Ghost quartering your island or spreading seas land or even just having it to keep them from all ining has bought me time to hit an EE
I agree - Ive used GQ in this way - and there are many more corner cases - like taking burn off a colour - this has won me games in the past. Killing academy ruins to stop recurring Ensnaring Bridge - things like that..
One other thing - ive noticed I can get screwed for colourless sometimes when I dont run GQ (in cases where i've run Hallowed Fountain and 3 basics) - I do like an extra source of colourless - I guess this could be fixed by running more pain lands as well..
How is the Tron matchup, does Tron ***** on this deck like every green deck, or is it more like a 40/60 matchup?
Bant is way better than Jund against Tron. At the very least Ugin doesn't really do much against us. We also naturally close at least a turn faster than Jund. I can't say it's favored for us because their nut draws still steamroll us.
Random side note, I tested Thragtusk and I dislike it. It's too slow against burn and it's only a 2-for-1 and not a game-winning bomb against GBx.
Overall, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon wasn't a great shout, and I'd cut him for something else. I believe I sideboarded more or less correctly every game, but if anyone has any suggestions, by all means let me know.
Chalice on 1 is reasonable against Ad Naus. You definitely shouldn't be taking out Smashers. I also don't think TKS lock is that great against them because it actually allows them to dig deeper for Ad Naus / Spoils. The only thing you're taking away from them is Unlife and we already have a reasonable answer against that in the form of EE's. People try pithing needle naming Lightning Storm but that really only just buys you a turn, since they'll Lab Man, so I don't really like that idea.
You also shouldn't have scryed hierarch to the bottom. There's still a chance you can turn 2 TKS with that draw if the next card were a temple.
Also kind of goes without saying that Ugin and Warping Wail are bad...
In case someone is looking for an alternate version because they do not own any Nobles yet. I replaced Noble with 4 of Birds of Paradise, 1 Boreal Druid, (5th bird in this case) and 2 Qasali Pridemages for the Exalted trigger and mainboard Artifact/Enchantment removal. Not ideal but it is still an option.
FSM's newbie's write up for Bant Eldrazi.
So whenever you start to build out a new deck you need a place to start. Instead of just copying one deck to start from I collated data from 20 different decks from several different sites (all built since the start of the year) to try and get me what the 'average' deck was. This was to avoid using some deck as a starting point that was an oddball and it gave me an excuse to build an excel spreadsheet (hey what can I say I like spreadsheets). Anyway I thought I would share my findings for anyone else interested.
First thing you notice when you go through 20 decks is about 80% of the main deck is all the same. You also notice everyone wants to throw in a card that no one else does as a one of. Not sure if this is because they think smarter than anyone else or just want to say it's their deck and not a 'netdeck' or what. (It would be an interesting study to find out why people put a specific card in from a psychological aspect). This is just a few of the cards that showed up in the main in only 1 (of 20) decks. Sideboards are even worse; there were 28 different cards in twenty 15 card sideboards
Anyway on to the deck break down
Land counts ran from 22-24
Six Decks have 22 land
Nine Decks have 23 land
Five Decks have 24 land
If you count Birds of Paradise and Talismans as mana sources (Talisman of Progress or Unity) things group up a bit more.
1 deck at 22 "mana sources"
1 deck at 23 "mana sources"
12 decks at 24 "mana sources"
6 decks at 25 "mana sources"
Note: I didn't count Noble Hierarch since she was a 4 of in every deck. I was more interested in the variables
One of the 25 mana decks ran 2 birds and one ran 3 Talisman (the only decks to run those counts) so I think the 24 is the right/most accepted count.
So do you run Birds or Talismans?? They both effectively come online turn two, Birds can chump but you can pull a Talisman with a Stirrings in a pinch. Birds are easier for an opponent to deal with though. I think I am going to run birds to begin with since I have them already but certainly would like to hear people’s thoughts on Birds v Talismans.
That leaves aprox 2-4 'flex' spots depending on your Souls/Y Coast counts to fill with utility lands/birds/tailismans.
Some of the lands in those flex spots that were used and the number of decks that used them.
Decks ran between 24-27 creatures, pretty evenly splits, 5, 5, 4, 6] so that gives you another 8-11 flex spots. Drowner of Hope was a 75 of 80 spots with only three decks not running 4 so you could probably count that as pretty close to an auto 4 of unless you had a really good reason not to.
Eldrazi Skyspawner was next with 51 out of 80, it was at least a 2 of in 18 of the decks. Nobody only ran only 1, Twelve decks ran 2 or 3 and six ran 4.
Matter Reshaper was next with 35 out of 80. It kind of was all over the place with three decks running 4 and eight running 0.
Eternal Witness was 13 out of 80 although it seemed if you were going to run it, run 2 as six of the seven decks w/ E Wit ran them ran as a 2 of.
Any feedback is appreciated. Specifically your thoughts on
Birds v Tailismans
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner or 2/2 split with Eternal Witness
How does Matter Reshaper help advance the win, is it just a big cantrip?
Have a great day and may you be touched by his noodly appendage!
Tested witness briefly. Didn't like it. Felt like it takes way too much time for you to pitch something useful for it into the grave to get full value off of it... prefer 4th drowner over a witness.
Tested GQ, not that impressed. It has utility but it usually feels pretty marginal. Out of 20 games or so, it hasn't been the deciding factor. Will do more testing.
Meta has been shifting to a lot more Jund & Burn - it's reasonable to add in reshapers again. I still dislike the card and it's easily the worst card in our 75, but it's the easiest to play on turn 2 and has decent value in those matchups.
Was 2-2 after throwing a match to hatebears early and landing myself in the "stupid decks" section of the hall, then a couple of easy beats in a row, ended up 5-4 drop so I could play side events today
UW control - W (displacer/tks lock in 2 straight games)
Elves - W (Last minute cage purchases for the side paid off)
Hatebears - L (G3 path'd my smasher, I zoned out and didn't flicker it in response, couldn't recover...with him on 3 and only a wisp on board....)
Some lifegain&removal.dek pos brew (I did 45 damage and still lost, the salt was real) - L
Shaman tribal? - W (t3,4,5 smashers g1, t4 worship g2 with his rec sages still in his side)
Jund - W
Affinity - L (nuts in first and 3rd games, g2 stony got there)
Wilted Abzan - W
Bant mirror - L. Super close game, just drew different sides of the deck
All in all fairly happy with how the day went, issues with the missus the night before had me at 5hrs sleep before the event so all things considered didn't do too badly.
Things I would change: hatebears misplay, obv. - I ran 2/2 UWill/Stubborn side, 3 games I wished the UWill was any other creature counter.
Other than quite happy with the deck
Off to grind some modern and edh events for prize tix! Wish me luck all!!
I ended up going 10-5. I was @ 8-3 vs Grixis Delver (with AV/cryptic main deck) - the game should have been a draw but we both kind of forgot about the clock. I made a misplay which would have won me the game and in the end I died with my opponent on three life after the judge instructed us to go to turns. The dream of cashing pretty much ended here . Anyway was a good tournament - I wish we had more GP opportunities in Australia.
Round 1 - Allies
Not much to say - my opponent was inexperienced - happy to get an effective bye.
Round 2 - Dredge
Only had 3x gy hate cards (No RIP) as I thought this deck was dead - it isn't (Two dredge decks in the top 8). Very close game 3. I had to survive combat on his turn and avoid getting burnt out by a conflagrate to my face. I had Drowner, 2x scions and a dork on board. I was able to chump and stay alive while retaining a scion. With path and smasher in hand I was able to clear the way by pathing an imp and tapping down a blood ghast to deal exact lethal with smasher and drowner.
Round 3 - RG Tron
Cheap counters and natural state where critical to disrupt early attempts to achieve Tron. I also had plenty of TKS to snatch key pieces. Game 3 was tight - and my opponent seemed to make a greedy play when he placed a 'hat' on his World Breaker with O-Stone. I had a dork and displacer in play. As soon as he tapped out I destroyed O-Stone and dropped a sandbagged smasher. I later pathed a wurm and kept displacing other threats and won quickly with smasher beats while holding up counters.
Round 4 - UWR Nahiri
My opponent was on a variation with lots of PWs - esp game two when he had Nahiri, Chandra and Jace AOT (he later showed my Big Elspeth). This variation also ran 3x Blood Moon sb.
Round 5 - Midrange Junk
Engineered Explosives was critical - I wiped his board of two drops and lingering souls multiple times. In anycase Bant Eldrazi is the clear favourite here.
Round 6 - Mirror
The mirror seems to be die roll dependent. I won the die roll.
Round 7 - RG Breach Titan
Fun opponent and good times where had. I won game 1 with super fast TKS and smashers. Game 2 was pretty close he died on 6 life the turn before i would have killed him. Game 3 I mulled pretty low in an attempt to get a fast hand - I got in one swing with smasher before getting 16+ dmg dealt to me the following turn - ouch.
Round 8 - Mirror
If I remember correctly my opponent ended up 19th overall. He got game 1. I got worship down game 2. Game 3 I was forced to mull to 5.
Round 9 - Mirror
Im starting to wonder if it's all mirrors from now on. I needed this to scrape in to day 2. In game 3 it came down to Ancient Stirrings needing to find me something special - the first 4 cards didnt help my situation - card 5 was a smasher and it was enough to eek out a victory.
Round 10 - Affinity
Game 1 got steam rolled. Game 2 I was about to get steam rolled again but landed a Worship the turn before I was dead - I kept his Inkmoth at bay with GQ and Path. Game 3 was one of the most memorable games of the tournament. He windmill slammed Blood Moon turn 2. I fortunately had basic forest in play and a dork. He later attempted to blast my dork but I pathed my dork to find basic plains. I was then able to EE the Moon away while landing a Worship. At this point he had Steel Overseer and blinkmoth pumping up 2x Inkmopth Nexus. Things were looking pretty grim but I had a drowner stalling his infect kill. I had run out of scions and had to path the overseer. I was dead on board next turn, I drew my singleton pithing needle - the mtg gods where with me today. He announced that he was hoping to draw an answer to needle - but it never eventuated. Eventually after chumping several Drowner attacks I pushed through with a smasher and drowner.
Round 11 - RG Torn
In both games I won I had multiple early TKS and good disruption like Stony Silence and counter spells. Game 3 he mulled to 4.
Round 12 - Eldrazi Tron
I like this matchup as Bant has a clear advantage - cards like EE and Displacer give them a huge headache. This is on top of better ramp, better removal, better tutoring and better sb - I really hope this deck stays hyped. I played against it in the GPT grinders on the Friday before the GP - had no problems either day.
Round 13 - Grixis Delver/Cntrl - I think it was basically Grixis Control with 4x Delver of Secrets.
Game 3 I made a blunder - anyway I died with my opponent on 3 life. Live and learn.
Round 14 - Mirror
My fourth mirror match - I lost the die roll and both games - he was just faster and I think I was on tilt from the previous match - my will to play tight was fading.
Round 15 - Jund with Assault/Loam
I manage to survive him recurring GQ and killing my lands (which I just kept drawing fortunately). I EE his Assault and get game 1. I really had no idea how to sb for this deck - I think I over sideboard for game 2 and got crushed. I sideboarded for game 3 as if it was just regular Jund and got relic to keep his goyfs small and stop loam shenanigans. Further to that I had early smasher pressure and drowners which just overwhelmed him.