Great primer update! Thanks.
There are also some possible sideboard choices currently not covered there. Shattering Spree is an anti-artifact hate that scales (helps vs Affinity) and can completely avoid Chalice of the Void as copies aren't cast, but simply put to stack. Anger of the Gods is an alternative sweeper option if you expect to encounter Zoo decks or smth silimar with 3 toughness.
I also personally like Torpor Orb as a 1-of sideboard option. It's very versatile - for example, shuts down Spliter Twin Combo or Soul Sisters lifegain.
Thanks for the feedback.
I will add those cards to the SB section a little later tonight!
Guys what are your thoughts for Day's Undoing? Iv been toying with the idea of this card from the moment it was spoiled. True it will give the opponnent a fresh hand but we could easily on the next turn fire off aleast 9 dmg, with 3 bolt like spells. However i was thinking with this card its better to lower the curve so would splashing for Bump in the Night would be 2 much?
Thoughts??
P.S. really want to make this card work nothing cooler than having a fresh hand in burn
i played it heavily as a 1-4 of from mb to sb, and really it just doesn't fit, being too expensive and risky, it can win you unwinnable games, but just as easily lose games you could have easily won. i'd play it casually, or sb against lantern control if you're super worried. if you lower your curve to play the card, you won't be able to reliably play or take full advantage of the card
First is about fethlands. I have got ten of them (4 x Wooded foothills, 4 x bloodstained mire and 2 x arid mesa) and I see Seth's deck adds up to a whopping fifteen of them. Since I don't have scalding tarn, could be a good idea to add two windswepth heath? Those two could fetch both sacred foundry or stomping ground... and would make even a better job disguising a burn deck.
Then, I'm afraid about asking this (don't want to bring the old discussions back) but why is people using nacatl instead vexing devil? I mean, one will be a 3/3 at best, but the other one is going to be always a 4/3 or a four damage lightning bolt.
More questions. Which would be the correct card to play first? I mean, if there's no goblin guide or swiftspear, should I play lavamancer or a bolt? is eidolon always mandatory to play on turn two?
Those are the questions right now. By the way, I'm still afraid of a stompy deck going around on my small, local meta XD. Any advise?
1. Seth Manfield's list has 13 fetches and is using Scalding Tarn instead of Bloodstained mire. As I mentioned in the primer, it's to throw people off and make them think your on a different deck. I dont think it's worth the investment, as with Burn you will very often play a turn 1 Guide/Spear which reveals you instantly anyway. If you want to add 2 more fetchlands, Arid mesa would be the best choice; you want to always be able to fetch basic red to be as efficient as possible.
2. I don't believe that running either Nacatl or Devil is optimal, however there is a significant number of lists which have placed in high events, specifically with Nacatl, so it does have it's merits. Vexing Devil on the other hand is less good because it gives your opponent the choice to leave him or take damage. In other words, he may do damage on turn 1, or he may get bolted. Either way, the longer the game goes on, the worse he gets as he will almost always deal 0 after turn 2. Someone did the math in the old primer but I'm too lazy to dig it up.
3. On turns 1-3 you want to play your creatures. If you're equal, or ahead on life from your opponent (which you most likely will be turns 1-3) drop the Eidolon without hesitation. Lavaman Turn 1, then Eidolon T2 in the scenario you presented.
4. Against Stompy you gotta hit Timely searing blaze or Volcanic fallout to wipe his board. If your meta is heavy in creature based aggro decks, have a playset of Blaze MB and 2 fallouts in the SB.
Regarding fetches, always run at least 10 red ones. Off colour fetches do significantly more harm than good, and it has no difference which particular red fetch you use. If you own Scalding Tarns, use them. If not, don't sweat, and just use Arid Mesa.
Just a wild stab but what about using Hooting Mandrills in place of Wild Nacatl? I've never had a real liking for the card(Nacatl) in this deck and it never really seems to do anything for me. Just a thought. One in the opening hand could be VERY clunky I suppose.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'd prefer to test Gurmag Angler over Mandrills, since 5/5s die to very little in the format, whereas 4/4s don't do as well. It really depends, though, since Mandrills fit better with the green plan, even if Angler is the better creature.
Brewed a Grixis variant with Days Undoing. Actually thought it was pretty good.
Do you have a list? Have you thought about replacing days undoing with painful truths? It's not quite treasure cruise, but maybe it's a good enough approximation for your last card on turn 4-5.
It's nowhere near as good as Cruise. Undoing gives your opponents cards too, so it's a lot more risk-reward than Cruise. It's completely random how good it is, though, which makes it very inconsistent.
I'd prefer to test Gurmag Angler over Mandrills, since 5/5s die to very little in the format, whereas 4/4s don't do as well. It really depends, though, since Mandrills fit better with the green plan, even if Angler is the better creature.
I may try some testing. It would be a straight replacement for Nacatl. I'm not currently running Lavamancer. The trample ability is what what I find appealing. Angler can be chumped all day. We don't get shocked by Eidolon for casting it (or Angler) either. I'm not expecting much but Nacatl seems such a weak link. Thanks all.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
It's nowhere near as good as Cruise. Undoing gives your opponents cards too, so it's a lot more risk-reward than Cruise. It's completely random how good it is, though, which makes it very inconsistent.
I think I was unclear. Days undoing is certainly worse than cruise, but I was wondering if a very similar shell using painful truths instead of days undoing could be interesting. I played a lot of treasure cruise burn and it was amazing, even if I couldn't play it for U just to refill. Perhaps painful truths could be not quite cruise good, but good enough to test.
How do you properly deal playing against creatureless control decks? Seems like it blanks or weakens a lot of cards like Searing Blaze and most of your sideboard.
The only Creatureless control deck that is relevant is probably lantern control. In that case, you take out blazes and any card you don't want for artifact hate out of the board like revelry or smash.
Fair point, would you bring in Volanic Fallout against very hard control decks? I know 3 mana for two damage is pretty bad, but can't be countered can help squeeze out last points of damage.
I have a single Exquisite Firecraft in the board for any U/X/X variants I run into. I also save my crack effects for timely reinforcements and such that can come out of U/W. Volcanic fallout isn't terrible to side in and I'd probably board it in and board out searing blazes.
Hi all, relatively new burn player, and I have a question that likely is answered by experience.
How correct is it to side in Destructive Revelries against decks that *may* have Leyline in the sideboard, but you haven't seen it? For example, would you bring it in G2 against Abzan?
I suppose I would bring in 1 as a hedge and so I don't have to just scoop if they do have it.
Hi all, relatively new burn player, and I have a question that likely is answered by experience.
How correct is it to side in Destructive Revelries against decks that *may* have Leyline in the sideboard, but you haven't seen it? For example, would you bring it in G2 against Abzan?
I suppose I would bring in 1 as a hedge and so I don't have to just scoop if they do have it.
I would only bring it if you saw it in game two, unless it has other targets (for example I bring some against amulet bloom, because it can also get the amulet)
Leyline is hard to beat, but don't scoop, especially since ppl will often keep sketchy hand just because it has the leyline
Your creatures are still good
Atarka's command can still deal damage despite the Leyline
Boros Charm can be used for it's double strike mode (or indestructible)
And most of your other burn spells can be used to clear a path for your creatures
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"What's your plan?" Gideon asked.
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
Basically, its JUND burn, with some card swapping from the traditional build. Anyone else play JUND burn, or have some helpful pointers? Thanks!
I should add that I am trying to build a burn deck with a good midrange as well. So not only am I able to hit the face, but I am able to hit on the ground very well, also.
Match 1: 2-1
Opponent playing some Junk good stuff deck (Vampiric Rites, Lingering Souls, etc). Game 1 he didn't really do anything, beat him with the Guide and burn to the face. Game 2 I kept a 1 land hand on the draw and didn't draw another land until a bit too late. He won with some lifegain and Bloodghast. Game 3 won in the standard burn fashion.
Wasn't sure what he was playing, so I didn't side until after game 2.
In:
2 Destructive Revelry
Out:
2 Searing Blaze
Match 3: 0-2
Opponent playing Blue Moon, which I confused for twin (and boarded completely wrong). My list is pretty greedy so Blood Moon left me with a bunch of unplayables game 1 and Batterskull secured Game 2 for him.
I'm pretty sure 4x Searing Blaze is too many even though I didn't really see any creature decks that night. Made some sideboarding mistakes (the second PtE game Match 4 would have been nice).
I had a great time and this is a fun deck to pilot. One of my highlights was getting in for 11 damage on turn 3 (Eidolon trigger, swiftspear, two lava spikes).
Any comments/suggestions on my deck list are welcome/appreciated!
Thanks for the feedback.
I will add those cards to the SB section a little later tonight!
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
i played it heavily as a 1-4 of from mb to sb, and really it just doesn't fit, being too expensive and risky, it can win you unwinnable games, but just as easily lose games you could have easily won. i'd play it casually, or sb against lantern control if you're super worried. if you lower your curve to play the card, you won't be able to reliably play or take full advantage of the card
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
1. Seth Manfield's list has 13 fetches and is using Scalding Tarn instead of Bloodstained mire. As I mentioned in the primer, it's to throw people off and make them think your on a different deck. I dont think it's worth the investment, as with Burn you will very often play a turn 1 Guide/Spear which reveals you instantly anyway. If you want to add 2 more fetchlands, Arid mesa would be the best choice; you want to always be able to fetch basic red to be as efficient as possible.
2. I don't believe that running either Nacatl or Devil is optimal, however there is a significant number of lists which have placed in high events, specifically with Nacatl, so it does have it's merits. Vexing Devil on the other hand is less good because it gives your opponent the choice to leave him or take damage. In other words, he may do damage on turn 1, or he may get bolted. Either way, the longer the game goes on, the worse he gets as he will almost always deal 0 after turn 2. Someone did the math in the old primer but I'm too lazy to dig it up.
3. On turns 1-3 you want to play your creatures. If you're equal, or ahead on life from your opponent (which you most likely will be turns 1-3) drop the Eidolon without hesitation. Lavaman Turn 1, then Eidolon T2 in the scenario you presented.
4. Against Stompy you gotta hit Timely searing blaze or Volcanic fallout to wipe his board. If your meta is heavy in creature based aggro decks, have a playset of Blaze MB and 2 fallouts in the SB.
Hope this helps!
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
Do you have a list? Have you thought about replacing days undoing with painful truths? It's not quite treasure cruise, but maybe it's a good enough approximation for your last card on turn 4-5.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
I may try some testing. It would be a straight replacement for Nacatl. I'm not currently running Lavamancer. The trample ability is what what I find appealing. Angler can be chumped all day. We don't get shocked by Eidolon for casting it (or Angler) either. I'm not expecting much but Nacatl seems such a weak link. Thanks all.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I think I was unclear. Days undoing is certainly worse than cruise, but I was wondering if a very similar shell using painful truths instead of days undoing could be interesting. I played a lot of treasure cruise burn and it was amazing, even if I couldn't play it for U just to refill. Perhaps painful truths could be not quite cruise good, but good enough to test.
I have a single Exquisite Firecraft in the board for any U/X/X variants I run into. I also save my crack effects for timely reinforcements and such that can come out of U/W. Volcanic fallout isn't terrible to side in and I'd probably board it in and board out searing blazes.
How correct is it to side in Destructive Revelries against decks that *may* have Leyline in the sideboard, but you haven't seen it? For example, would you bring it in G2 against Abzan?
I suppose I would bring in 1 as a hedge and so I don't have to just scoop if they do have it.
I would only bring it if you saw it in game two, unless it has other targets (for example I bring some against amulet bloom, because it can also get the amulet)
Leyline is hard to beat, but don't scoop, especially since ppl will often keep sketchy hand just because it has the leyline
Your creatures are still good
Atarka's command can still deal damage despite the Leyline
Boros Charm can be used for it's double strike mode (or indestructible)
And most of your other burn spells can be used to clear a path for your creatures
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
Im planning on running the following for the foreseeable future.
1x Arid Mesa
2x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Copperline Gorge
3x Mountain
2x Stomping Ground
4x Wooded Foothills
Creature (18)
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
2x Ghor-Clan Rampager
4x Goblin Guide
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Atarka's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Searing Blaze
Sorcery (11)
3x Bump in the Night
4x Lava Spike
4x Rift Bolt
4x Destructive Revelry
2x Molten Rain
2x Rain of Gore
1x Rakdos Charm
2x Rending Volley
2x Self-Inflicted Wound
2x Skullcrack
Basically, its JUND burn, with some card swapping from the traditional build. Anyone else play JUND burn, or have some helpful pointers? Thanks!
I should add that I am trying to build a burn deck with a good midrange as well. So not only am I able to hit the face, but I am able to hit on the ground very well, also.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Instants and Sorceries
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Shard Volley
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
2 Lightning Helix
4 Searing Blaze
4 Rift Bolt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Path to Exile
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Searing Blood
2 Torpor Orb
1 Molten Rain
Match 1: 2-1
Opponent playing some Junk good stuff deck (Vampiric Rites, Lingering Souls, etc). Game 1 he didn't really do anything, beat him with the Guide and burn to the face. Game 2 I kept a 1 land hand on the draw and didn't draw another land until a bit too late. He won with some lifegain and Bloodghast. Game 3 won in the standard burn fashion.
Wasn't sure what he was playing, so I didn't side until after game 2.
In:
2 Destructive Revelry
Out:
2 Searing Blaze
Match 2: 2-1
Opponent on UR Twin. He tapped out to counter Lightning Helix with Cryptic Command. I got in with Lava Spike Boros Charm and Monastery Swiftspear triggers. Game 2 lost to the combo with him at 1 life. Game 3 won with burn to the face.
In:
2 Torpor Orb
2 Path to Exile
1 Destructive Revelry
Out:
4 Searing Blaze
1 Shard Volley
Match 3: 0-2
Opponent playing Blue Moon, which I confused for twin (and boarded completely wrong). My list is pretty greedy so Blood Moon left me with a bunch of unplayables game 1 and Batterskull secured Game 2 for him.
In:
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Torpor Orb
2 Path to Exile
Out:
4 Searing Blaze
1 Shard Volley
1 Lightning Helix
Match 4: 0-2
Opponent playing Tarmo-Twin. Tarmogoyf/Spellskite with counter back up won him game 1 and 2.
In:
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Path to Exile
1 Deflecting Palm
2 Torpor Orb
Out:
4 Searing Blaze
1 Shard Volley
1 Lightning Helix
I'm pretty sure 4x Searing Blaze is too many even though I didn't really see any creature decks that night. Made some sideboarding mistakes (the second PtE game Match 4 would have been nice).
I had a great time and this is a fun deck to pilot. One of my highlights was getting in for 11 damage on turn 3 (Eidolon trigger, swiftspear, two lava spikes).
Any comments/suggestions on my deck list are welcome/appreciated!
U Merfolk
UBR Delver
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=95897
Another copy in the top 8, too. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=95896