I've been inspired by the Gonti's Machinations idea. I still don't have white cards, or the remaining 2 eidolon. So here's R/B/g Gonti's burn, inspired by the Mardu build.
I'm playing 19 lands first of all. I'm too scared to go down to 18 considering all of the mulligans it may entail. 2 Grim Lavamancer mb. I'm hoping the extra one cost spells will give some extra value to these. Also, my meta seems to have a ton of small creatures so two may be useful. Went from 4 to 3 searing blaze. This card was gumming up my hand too often against Tron and more controlling decks.
There used to be 3 bloodmoon, but with gonti's the mana base has become too greedy for that. More Ghost Quarter and Molten Rain to compensate.
One collective brutality looks appealing in the sideboard. 2 perhaps, as there are a couple of Collected Company decks in my tiny meta.
I'll try something pretty close to this for my next Wednesday modern.
Any feedback greatly appreciated. I'm especially curious to know what people think of possibly playing 1 Sign in blood mainboard? My build is black heavy already, but 2 black mana might mana screw me too often. It just looks so tempting, because it become more gas, or possibly finish off the opponent on the topdeck.
I gather that Lightning Bolt was regarded as overpowered for a long time and I suppose they took a large step back from Bolt to Incinerate, Volcanic Hammer, and massive downside Bolts like Sonic Seizure. Maybe it's embarrassing, but I have a growing collection of burn spells, even if they're terrible.
Even Incinerate was Extended-type power. The red burn gauntlet in Standard at that time (7-9 eds.) was Shock/Volcanic Hammer.
The were Incinerates in some early modern burn decks, too. I saw some in my database.
So I live in Louisville and I'm playing in the Open next weekend. There are some other Modern decks I like that I feel are strong, like Storm and Living End, but I don't have the in person reps and time spent against a variety of decks for them like I do w/Burn, so I'm in default mode. That's ok, I win store credit basically every week w/my Legacy Burn deck too, so I'm fine being The Burn Guy
The above list was my starting point, but I haven't been able to get out for Modern in awhile and my SB isn't updated really. Last time I had touched the board was shortly after Vegas when Affinity was on a severe rise for several weeks. It's a good default board and heavy on things like D Rev and Smash due to the increases in things like Chalice in the format, plus all of Affinity. Electrickery kills most of Affinity, is a great defensive answer to Storm going the Empty route, also serves as an offensive plan against Lingering Souls decks.
So I started iterating on sideboards and while I'm paying close attention to all the decks at the top of the standings, I'm also trying to keep in mind that the first several rounds could well be random jank from left field. I opened up a spreadsheet and picked out 11 different decks that I figured would be things I would see over the course of a major 2 day event and came up w/SB plans for them all. Storm, Grixis Death Shadow, Scapeshift, Affinity, E Tron, Abzan, Jund, Jeskai Geist, Merfolk, Devoted Company, Elves.
Here is how my iterations went as I kind of explored how to change things up.
RIP teams w/Cage for a more focused GY hate and Fallout is just extra board wipes against things like Elves or Chord decks. Gets most of Affinity, which if it kills enough could also get the Etched Champion, but entirely likely it remains on the board.
Decided that Mindbreak Trap won't be that great and replaced w/2 Palm and 1 Lavamancer.
Thoughts? Am I on the right track? Going way too far down the rabbit hole? Only probably going to get FNM next week as in person testing prior to the event next weekend, but I'm comfortable walking in and playing no problem, but I'd like to solidify my SB plans against decks.
I think that 4 DRev and at lesat 2 Paths (I like 3) are givens. I wouldn't play more than 2 Deflecting Palm, and I'd bring them against ETron, Jund, Junk, Scapeshift, and Affinity. I like Lavamancer enough to play it in the maindeck, personally.
I don't like Electrickery as a board wipe, but would prefer Pyroclssm or Volcanic Fallout. The Etched Champion thing doesn't work, because it will have 0 damage marked on it if Metalcraft is on and will continue to have 0 damage marked on it after the Memnites and Ornithopters die even if Metalcraft is turned off (though you could bolt it then). Steel Overseer can also get everything out of board wipe range pretty quickly, too. I like picking off the things that are the worst for me and keeping them from swinging big. Volcanic Fallout is probably my favorite board wipe because it hits the player and can't be countered, but the can't be countered part really only matters against Merfolk. Unless I'm missing something, Storm doesn't have any way to get Haste, so you'll be able to untap and wipe the Goblins on your turn and that means that Instant speed on Electrickery doesn't matter that much and you could use Pyroclasm or Fallout if you're dead set on playing board wipes. However, I'd prefer to attack Storm with Eidolons and keeping them off of Past in Flames so they fizzle. You can accomplish that with graveyard hate and by not letting them get any use out of Baral/Electromancer. I tend to beat Storm by simultaneously poking them and delaying them so they can't go off. However, I generally don't like playing board wipes in Burn.
I agree with dropping Mindbreak Trap, because I don't think it's really necessary with Storm already being a good matchup for Burn. I'd take your last iteration and replace the Electrickery and Fallout with 1 Path and 2 Bridge.
There are some folks running Storm that run copies of Quicken, so they could potentially use their win con on your turn. Bunch of Goblins on my end step means hasty Goblins on their turn. It isn't super popular, but I've always liked the card. Pyroclasm and Volcanic Fallout are also all creatures, so they kill my stuff. This is a one sided thing. Yeah, often they will have metalcraft thanks to Opal or Darksteel Citadel, etc, but having only it left on the board vs a full board is a better situation generally. Can't be countered is also a consideration vs GDS. GDS alone still has me considering some number of Exquisite Firecraft, but Remand is also popular in many builds of Storm.
Those are reasonable replacements. I'm glad to at least get some feedback and see that I'm not totally crazy w/what I'm thinking here
Ah, Quicken is the piece I was missing. They could get there on Quicken, but I think you're still in good shape with Eidolon, graveyard hate, and killing their cost reducers and that you don't need something special to take care of Empty the Warrens.
If you Pyroclasm with Swiftspear out, Swiftspear survives as a 2/3 with 2 damage on it. Firecraft is also fine in the UW and Jeskai matchups, I'd almost feel better about playing Firecraft than Bridge because Bridge just feels awkward. That would leave you with Palms and Paths for ETron's threats plus DRevs for Chalice.
I'm of the opinion that losing some access to enchantment destruction in order to pick up what amounts to magical christmasland outs against Chalice of the Void is not something that's worth doing. Spree is your only option against a situation that involves Chalice on 2, but this also requires you to have Spree in hand and not have had it stripped by TKS. If it's not in hand, you have to draw for it, and every turn you miss drawing it is another turn closer to losing the game. I just don't believe it's worth it, because I think that you've likely lost the game already even if you do blow up that Chalice. I don't think that's the case for DRev vs Leyline, and that's what you're diluting when you drop DRevs.
I think that DRev alone is perfectly good against Affinity, because you can win by being selective in what you destroy and Replicate isn't necessary. Against Lantern, you just want creatures early so that you can sandbag burn spells for later, so Spree isn't necessary there either.
1) Old-Growth Dryads seems to have promise, and an easy replacement for those still playing Wild Nacatl. At the very least...it's getting a try in my zoo deck.
2) Deeproot Champion - not sure how good it would be, but definite potential for fun.
I have always hated Wild Nacatl in Burn, but Wild Nacatl is far better than Old-Growth Dryads in Burn. The last thing you want to do is ramp your opponent that easily that early. Path to Exile is a necessary evil and you can at least play it on their turn so that you get a turn before they untap with extra mana.
Deeproot Champion is also not playable. It's permanent Prowess at 2CMC and without Haste. Do not want.
A couple of questions:
I decided to go second against a G/w deck that used vizier of remedies, devoted driud, and walking ballista combo deck. You make infinite mana and destroy with ballista. My reasoning was an extra card for him means assembling the combo faster. An extra card for me means more chances for a card that can kill a combo piece before he can go infinite. Plus my curve is much lower, so there is a chance to make up the tempo loss. Is this sound reasoning?
Last night I kept a 5 card no mana hand. 4 one mana spells and 1 two cost. I figured I couldn't kill tron with 4 cards, plus who knows if I'll draw a land if I went there. I ended up winning. Thoughts on keeping a 5 card no land hand?
I don't agree with choosing to go second as an aggro deck in any situation. Against that CoCo deck, you're choosing to have the ability to cast fewer spells before they start casting CoCo and Chord to tutor for their win. You're also choosing to have a non-zero probability of a T2 Finks while you have one land in play. I would only consider going second in a mid-range vs mid-range matchup where the game literally comes down to who sees more cards. Look at it as playing first there means you get another turn worth of casting burn spells before they're able to dig solely due to mana constraints, and that's far more important than denying them one card.
You on the play: Assuming you deal with dorks, they cast CoCo on T4 after having seen 11 cards so far and they dig down to card 17. In the mean time, if you hit land 3 on T3, you could have cast 9 mana worth of cards and that puts you on the brink of winning, though you probably spent some on disrupting their board.
You on the draw: They cast CoCo on T4 after having seen 10 cards and dig down to card 16. In the mean time, if you hit land 3 on T3, you could have cast 6 mana worth of cards and that puts you very far from winning.
You've played 2/3 of the game you would have played if you went first and it was only so they see 26.6% of their deck instead of 28.3%. I don't think that's remotely worth it.
I wouldn't like keeping a 5 land hand, but there's definitely some point as you mulligan where you should snap keep because your next mulligan is unlikely to increase your probability of winning. If you mulligan to 4 there, you probably lose. If you keep the 5 with no lands, you probably lose but there's a non-zero chance it becomes playable. Your decision here was basically "my best chance to win is to keep this and hope I hit a land", and I think that's reasonable. As a side note, I've won on a 4 card no-lander in Legacy Burn against Dredge where my opener had a Tormod's Crypt and I drew into another one. If I recall correctly, I drew a land on T2 and to get Swiftspear running.
Ah, Quicken is the piece I was missing. They could get there on Quicken, but I think you're still in good shape with Eidolon, graveyard hate, and killing their cost reducers and that you don't need something special to take care of Empty the Warrens.
If you Pyroclasm with Swiftspear out, Swiftspear survives as a 2/3 with 2 damage on it. Firecraft is also fine in the UW and Jeskai matchups, I'd almost feel better about playing Firecraft than Bridge because Bridge just feels awkward. That would leave you with Palms and Paths for ETron's threats plus DRevs for Chalice.
Yeah, I'll definitely throw all this around a bit. I'll post before next weekend what my final version is.
As a side note, I've won on a 4 card no-lander in Legacy Burn against Dredge where my opener had a Tormod's Crypt and I drew into another one. If I recall correctly, I drew a land on T2 and to get Swiftspear running.
Some of those 4 land hands for Legacy Burn are ******* BRUTAL!
Regarding DRev vs Spree:
Vs Eldrazi Tron any Affinity Spree seems much better. I am more afraid of Chalice on 2 than chalice on 1. With Spree I can even destroy 2 chalices at once.
I don't think we need sideboard for Storm and Valakut. Those are some of the best matchups for us. Especially Storm. Eidolon is better than Halo here. Post sideboard they will likely go for Empty anyway.
..
The were Incinerates in some early modern burn decks, too. I saw some in my database.
There has always been a niche in Burn for 2cc/3 damage instants with utility. Incinerate's utility, however, is not very good these days as Regenerate has been phased out for Indestructible.
Regarding DRev vs Spree:
Vs Eldrazi Tron any Affinity Spree seems much better. I am more afraid of Chalice on 2 than chalice on 1. With Spree I can even destroy 2 chalices at once.
I agree that Spree is better against ETron. My point is that I don't think it really makes a difference in whether you win. If they get 2 Chalices, you've already lost because you probably sat out at least the turn you play Spree plus one other turn because you weren't able to cast anything. Spree will get you out from under a sole Chalice on 2, but there's the cost of losing some access to other sideboard cards because the size of your sideboard isn't infinite. I'm not willing to make that trade off.
..
The were Incinerates in some early modern burn decks, too. I saw some in my database.
There has always been a niche in Burn for 2cc/3 damage instants with utility. Incinerate's utility, however, is not very good these days as Regenerate has been phased out for Indestructible.
I think Incinerate in Modern Burn was really a lack of good options rather than a bonus from the regenerate clause. It looks like the options for 1R "3 damage" at the time were Incinerate and Volcanic Hammer.
Rampaging Ferocidon! Or put another way, "dinosaurs eat Soul Sisters for breakfast" and "lol, empty the warrens, I dare you".
2R
Creature — Dinosaur (Rare)
Menace
Players can't gain life.
Whenever another creature enters the battlefield, Rampaging Ferocidon deals 1 damage to that creature's controller. All raptors are aggressive, but ferocidons seem to enjoy their prey's pain.
3/3
I'm playing 19 lands first of all. I'm too scared to go down to 18 considering all of the mulligans it may entail. 2 Grim Lavamancer mb. I'm hoping the extra one cost spells will give some extra value to these. Also, my meta seems to have a ton of small creatures so two may be useful. Went from 4 to 3 searing blaze. This card was gumming up my hand too often against Tron and more controlling decks.
There used to be 3 bloodmoon, but with gonti's the mana base has become too greedy for that. More Ghost Quarter and Molten Rain to compensate.
One collective brutality looks appealing in the sideboard. 2 perhaps, as there are a couple of Collected Company decks in my tiny meta.
I'll try something pretty close to this for my next Wednesday modern.
Any feedback greatly appreciated. I'm especially curious to know what people think of possibly playing 1 Sign in blood mainboard? My build is black heavy already, but 2 black mana might mana screw me too often. It just looks so tempting, because it become more gas, or possibly finish off the opponent on the topdeck.
2x Grim Lavamancer
2x Eidolon of the Great Revel
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Lava Spike
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Rift Bolt
4x Bump in the Night
4x Gonti's Machinations
2x Shard Volley
3x Searing Blaze
4x Atarka's Command
3x Wooded Foothills
4x Arid Mesa
1x Stomping Ground
2x Blood Crypt
3x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Mountain
2x skullcrack
4x Dreadbore
2x Molten rain
2x Ghost Quarter
4x Destructive Revelry
1x Collective Brutality
The were Incinerates in some early modern burn decks, too. I saw some in my database.
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Spells: 28
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Helix
2 Forked Bolt
1 Flames of the Blood Hand
1 Shard Volley
4 Searing Blaze
4 Skullcrack
2 Mountain
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Destructive Revelry
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Path to Exile
3 Deflecting Palm
2 Electrickery
The above list was my starting point, but I haven't been able to get out for Modern in awhile and my SB isn't updated really. Last time I had touched the board was shortly after Vegas when Affinity was on a severe rise for several weeks. It's a good default board and heavy on things like D Rev and Smash due to the increases in things like Chalice in the format, plus all of Affinity. Electrickery kills most of Affinity, is a great defensive answer to Storm going the Empty route, also serves as an offensive plan against Lingering Souls decks.
So I started iterating on sideboards and while I'm paying close attention to all the decks at the top of the standings, I'm also trying to keep in mind that the first several rounds could well be random jank from left field. I opened up a spreadsheet and picked out 11 different decks that I figured would be things I would see over the course of a major 2 day event and came up w/SB plans for them all. Storm, Grixis Death Shadow, Scapeshift, Affinity, E Tron, Abzan, Jund, Jeskai Geist, Merfolk, Devoted Company, Elves.
Here is how my iterations went as I kind of explored how to change things up.
4 Destructive Revelry
3 Path to Exile
2 Electrickery
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Mindbreak for Storm, Bridge for GDS and E Tron, Cage for Chord decks and incidental hate for Snaps
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Electrickery
2 Path to Exile
4 Destructive Revelry
1 Volcanic Fallout
RIP teams w/Cage for a more focused GY hate and Fallout is just extra board wipes against things like Elves or Chord decks. Gets most of Affinity, which if it kills enough could also get the Etched Champion, but entirely likely it remains on the board.
2 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Electrickery
2 Path to Exile
4 Destructive Revelry
1 Volcanic Fallout
2 Deflecting Palm
1 Grim Lavamancer
Decided that Mindbreak Trap won't be that great and replaced w/2 Palm and 1 Lavamancer.
Thoughts? Am I on the right track? Going way too far down the rabbit hole? Only probably going to get FNM next week as in person testing prior to the event next weekend, but I'm comfortable walking in and playing no problem, but I'd like to solidify my SB plans against decks.
I don't like Electrickery as a board wipe, but would prefer Pyroclssm or Volcanic Fallout. The Etched Champion thing doesn't work, because it will have 0 damage marked on it if Metalcraft is on and will continue to have 0 damage marked on it after the Memnites and Ornithopters die even if Metalcraft is turned off (though you could bolt it then). Steel Overseer can also get everything out of board wipe range pretty quickly, too. I like picking off the things that are the worst for me and keeping them from swinging big. Volcanic Fallout is probably my favorite board wipe because it hits the player and can't be countered, but the can't be countered part really only matters against Merfolk. Unless I'm missing something, Storm doesn't have any way to get Haste, so you'll be able to untap and wipe the Goblins on your turn and that means that Instant speed on Electrickery doesn't matter that much and you could use Pyroclasm or Fallout if you're dead set on playing board wipes. However, I'd prefer to attack Storm with Eidolons and keeping them off of Past in Flames so they fizzle. You can accomplish that with graveyard hate and by not letting them get any use out of Baral/Electromancer. I tend to beat Storm by simultaneously poking them and delaying them so they can't go off. However, I generally don't like playing board wipes in Burn.
I agree with dropping Mindbreak Trap, because I don't think it's really necessary with Storm already being a good matchup for Burn. I'd take your last iteration and replace the Electrickery and Fallout with 1 Path and 2 Bridge.
Those are reasonable replacements. I'm glad to at least get some feedback and see that I'm not totally crazy w/what I'm thinking here
If you Pyroclasm with Swiftspear out, Swiftspear survives as a 2/3 with 2 damage on it. Firecraft is also fine in the UW and Jeskai matchups, I'd almost feel better about playing Firecraft than Bridge because Bridge just feels awkward. That would leave you with Palms and Paths for ETron's threats plus DRevs for Chalice.
I think that DRev alone is perfectly good against Affinity, because you can win by being selective in what you destroy and Replicate isn't necessary. Against Lantern, you just want creatures early so that you can sandbag burn spells for later, so Spree isn't necessary there either.
1) Old-Growth Dryads seems to have promise, and an easy replacement for those still playing Wild Nacatl. At the very least...it's getting a try in my zoo deck.
2) Deeproot Champion - not sure how good it would be, but definite potential for fun.
Take care!
Deeproot Champion is also not playable. It's permanent Prowess at 2CMC and without Haste. Do not want.
I decided to go second against a G/w deck that used vizier of remedies, devoted driud, and walking ballista combo deck. You make infinite mana and destroy with ballista. My reasoning was an extra card for him means assembling the combo faster. An extra card for me means more chances for a card that can kill a combo piece before he can go infinite. Plus my curve is much lower, so there is a chance to make up the tempo loss. Is this sound reasoning?
Last night I kept a 5 card no mana hand. 4 one mana spells and 1 two cost. I figured I couldn't kill tron with 4 cards, plus who knows if I'll draw a land if I went there. I ended up winning. Thoughts on keeping a 5 card no land hand?
You on the play: Assuming you deal with dorks, they cast CoCo on T4 after having seen 11 cards so far and they dig down to card 17. In the mean time, if you hit land 3 on T3, you could have cast 9 mana worth of cards and that puts you on the brink of winning, though you probably spent some on disrupting their board.
You on the draw: They cast CoCo on T4 after having seen 10 cards and dig down to card 16. In the mean time, if you hit land 3 on T3, you could have cast 6 mana worth of cards and that puts you very far from winning.
You've played 2/3 of the game you would have played if you went first and it was only so they see 26.6% of their deck instead of 28.3%. I don't think that's remotely worth it.
I wouldn't like keeping a 5 land hand, but there's definitely some point as you mulligan where you should snap keep because your next mulligan is unlikely to increase your probability of winning. If you mulligan to 4 there, you probably lose. If you keep the 5 with no lands, you probably lose but there's a non-zero chance it becomes playable. Your decision here was basically "my best chance to win is to keep this and hope I hit a land", and I think that's reasonable. As a side note, I've won on a 4 card no-lander in Legacy Burn against Dredge where my opener had a Tormod's Crypt and I drew into another one. If I recall correctly, I drew a land on T2 and to get Swiftspear running.
Yeah, I'll definitely throw all this around a bit. I'll post before next weekend what my final version is.
Some of those 4 land hands for Legacy Burn are ******* BRUTAL!
Vs Eldrazi Tron any Affinity Spree seems much better. I am more afraid of Chalice on 2 than chalice on 1. With Spree I can even destroy 2 chalices at once.
I don't think we need sideboard for Storm and Valakut. Those are some of the best matchups for us. Especially Storm. Eidolon is better than Halo here. Post sideboard they will likely go for Empty anyway.
There has always been a niche in Burn for 2cc/3 damage instants with utility. Incinerate's utility, however, is not very good these days as Regenerate has been phased out for Indestructible.
I agree that Spree is better against ETron. My point is that I don't think it really makes a difference in whether you win. If they get 2 Chalices, you've already lost because you probably sat out at least the turn you play Spree plus one other turn because you weren't able to cast anything. Spree will get you out from under a sole Chalice on 2, but there's the cost of losing some access to other sideboard cards because the size of your sideboard isn't infinite. I'm not willing to make that trade off.
I think Incinerate in Modern Burn was really a lack of good options rather than a bonus from the regenerate clause. It looks like the options for 1R "3 damage" at the time were Incinerate and Volcanic Hammer.
2R
Creature — Dinosaur (Rare)
Menace
Players can't gain life.
Whenever another creature enters the battlefield, Rampaging Ferocidon deals 1 damage to that creature's controller.
All raptors are aggressive, but ferocidons seem to enjoy their prey's pain.
3/3
Is GY hate even necessary anymore with DS decreasing in popularity?