Is it recommended to play fetches in a mono red burn build? I was thinking 8 fetches and 10 mountains, for the sole purpose of thinning out the deck but wanted to run the idea by you guys first. Thanks in advance !
Yes, it also gives you access to make landfall for Searing Blaze more easily.
I was testing a mono-red burn deck over the weekend and the test seemed promising. Usually I play legacy burn but my friend was testing a few modern decks that he might play in a few tournaments. So when I was building my deck I had a few things in my mind, I wanted to make it mono-red and I didn't want to use Eidolon because I wanted to see if Swiftspear was good. I don't like Eidolon and Swiftspear in Legacy and I had doubts I would like the two in modern.
I'd assumed that since I'm playing mono-red, I'm not absorbing damage from fetch/shocklands. I was correct, my opponent was down 6 life in the first two turns.
I'd assumed that Blood Moon would make an good main deck slot. I was correct, I dropped a 3rd turn blood moon and my opponent was shut down. I think my next build I might add a 3rd blood moon.
I did like Ash's haste but I think Eidolon would be a better control card. I know how awesome is Eidolon (I do own 2 playsets but I was testing Swfitspear)
I'd assumed that without Eidolon, Swiftspear would outperform. No she didn't. Maybe it's because when I tested her I was playing Mishra's Bauble and Urza's Bauble or I'm demanding too much out of her. I do noticed that I have a good number of 2cc spells and Shard Volley that seemed to get in the way of pumping her on the attack. I also didn't like that I was attacking with her for 3 turns as a 1/2 creature. I'll stick with Swiftspear until I get another playset of Vexing Devils or if I find a better creature that fits.
Shard Volley... I do have mixed feelings about the card. I remember years ago there was a debate in the legacy burn thread about Shard Volley, and I didn't see the card a good staple because of fireblast. Shard Volley wasn't difficult to play in my modern burn deck, but it did suck to have 2 in my opening hand and I couldn't cast them to pump swiftspear, without going into a land disadvantage. It did come in handy when I had 4 lands in play. I might drop one Shard Volley.
Rift Bolt... Not much to assume here. I think Rift Bolt is one of the worst burn spells in legacy because the best time to play the card is turn 1, and we are usually playing Goblin Guide. Rift Bolt would be ok in turn 2, but we are playing Eidolon. I wasn't playing Eidolon but it didn't help drawing up Rift Bolt and suspending the card on turn 4. I did win but I didn't like the idea of suspending my game winner on turn 4.
Searing Blaze... Not bad, I had a good number of targets. I thought running only basic lands would make running Searing Blaze a little difficult. It wasn't that difficult, there was one time I had 2 lands in play and cursing the searing blaze, but I drew my 3rd land.
Forked Bolt... I needed another burn spell, and I was looking at shocks. Forked Bolt remind me of a 1cc version of fire/ice and the card came in handy. I do like the idea of taking out 2 chumps for 1cc.
My friend was telling me that Leyline of Sanctity is a very big card in modern. And one of the reasons why most modern burn players play more than 1 color because they need to remove it. I could see that being a problem but I wonder what sideboard options I could consider (yeah I know red cannot destroy enchantments and Anarchy is not modern legal). But the Leyline don't stop me from attacking and global damage like Flamebreak.
For Leyline, you could also try siding Liquimetal Coating to turn Leyline into an artifact and then use an artifact removal of your choice.
For Leyline, you could also try siding Liquimetal Coating to turn Leyline into an artifact and then use an artifact removal of your choice.
Thanks, I totally forget about this card. Is there any other similar card?
Liquimetal Coating is super niche. Not to mention that you need both, and it doesn't really do anything on it's own. It means oversideboarding, and heavily diluting your game plan, because you need to bring in removal, and a decent number of coatings. That's like 6-8 sideboard cards. If you're having trouble with Leyline (and I'm assuming you're mono-red), then exchange the Coatings for just creatures. Or just shift to a creature-heavy build. They'll get the damage in that you otherwise wouldn't be able to.
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I'm in the process of building another modern deck. I was wondering what do you think of burn in the current meta and the future of it? Can it be a tier 1/2 deck for a long time or it is just a matter of time before it fall?
For Leyline, you could also try siding Liquimetal Coating to turn Leyline into an artifact and then use an artifact removal of your choice.
Thanks, I totally forget about this card. Is there any other similar card?
Liquimetal Coating is super niche. Not to mention that you need both, and it doesn't really do anything on it's own. It means oversideboarding, and heavily diluting your game plan, because you need to bring in removal, and a decent number of coatings. That's like 6-8 sideboard cards. If you're having trouble with Leyline (and I'm assuming you're mono-red), then exchange the Coatings for just creatures. Or just shift to a creature-heavy build. They'll get the damage in that you otherwise wouldn't be able to.
Yeah, if you're going to go adding Liquimetal Coating so that you can blow stuff up with Smash to Smithereens, you're just wasting sideboard slots. Just punt those matchups and use sideboard slots more thoughtfully.
For Leyline, you could also try siding Liquimetal Coating to turn Leyline into an artifact and then use an artifact removal of your choice.
Thanks, I totally forget about this card. Is there any other similar card?
Liquimetal Coating is super niche. Not to mention that you need both, and it doesn't really do anything on it's own. It means oversideboarding, and heavily diluting your game plan, because you need to bring in removal, and a decent number of coatings. That's like 6-8 sideboard cards. If you're having trouble with Leyline (and I'm assuming you're mono-red), then exchange the Coatings for just creatures. Or just shift to a creature-heavy build. They'll get the damage in that you otherwise wouldn't be able to.
Yeah, if you're going to go adding Liquimetal Coating so that you can blow stuff up with Smash to Smithereens, you're just wasting sideboard slots. Just punt those matchups and use sideboard slots more thoughtfully.
I'm not sure if adding 8 cards to the sideboard is that bad, In my Legacy burn deck I was playing 3 Vexing Shusher and I main decked 3 Exquisite Firecraft because of countertop before it was banned.
But I'm not sold on Liquimetal Coating because it's a 2 mana artifact and I need Smash in my hand. In a deck that don't draw/tutor - this gets difficult. I think I would have better luck if I sideboarded 4 Qal Sisma Behemoth and pay the 2 mana for each attack.
I just noticed on MTG top 8 that almost all the top Burn decks in the last 2 months play 0 copies of Atarka's command.
It seems most Burn decks on MTG top 8 are now doing 4 Lightning Helix, 4 Searing Blaze, and 4 Skullcrack. Anyone know why? Typically these are the flex cards in Burn. I've been out of the loop for the past few months (stopped playing around Eldrazi Winter)
I just noticed on MTG top 8 that almost all the top Burn decks in the last 2 months play 0 copies of Atarka's command.
It seems most Burn decks on MTG top 8 are now doing 4 Lightning Helix, 4 Searing Blaze, and 4 Skullcrack. Anyone know why? Typically these are the flex cards in Burn. I've been out of the loop for the past few months (stopped playing around Eldrazi Winter)
The gist of it is Fatal Push pushed people away from Wild Nacatl coupled that with fear that playing maindeck green is too costly on your life total, and you get what I believe is an over-correction back to the pre-DTK decklists. I think it's similar to the "we have maindeck green, time to play Nacatl" in the summer following DTK and the adoption of AC.
However, someone else on this board will chew me out if I don't add that Inspiring Vantage makes it easier to play RW with less pain than the pre-DTK era and apparently a minority of players made the switch after Kaladesh for that reason.
I just noticed on MTG top 8 that almost all the top Burn decks in the last 2 months play 0 copies of Atarka's command.
It seems most Burn decks on MTG top 8 are now doing 4 Lightning Helix, 4 Searing Blaze, and 4 Skullcrack. Anyone know why? Typically these are the flex cards in Burn. I've been out of the loop for the past few months (stopped playing around Eldrazi Winter)
I can see the point of Wild Nactal going out of favor from elconquistador's post above this . I don't have experience playing it though. It makes sense to me that Fatal Push entering the meta game makes cheap creatures less valuable. Perhaps people are overestimating it's effect though.
I'm not sure if this is related, but something to consider if playing only 2 colors:
I'm running a Jund burn list
that only has 4 atarka's command and 4 Bump in the night as off-color cards in the mainboard. I opened my 4th bloodmoon and shoved it in the sideboard. Against Tron or greedy mana bases, I side out Bump for bloodmoon leaving me with only 4 off color cards. If I have atarka's and moon in my opening hand, I can still play atarka's turn 2, moon turn 3. At that point, there's a pretty low chance of me drawing another atarka's before the game is over. Besides, moon can buy you a ridiculous number of turns to draw past an atarka's command against the right deck.
If we were to build a deck with only r/w, you could probably fit in a plains as a 20th land. This would allow an advantage in a mirror match up especially, and allow you to play 4 bloodmoon in the sideboard with almost no consequence to yourself. I only play my modern deck here with the locals, but it seems that there are some greedy mana bases out there. I think moon punishes much harder than molten rain. Tron and 3-4 color decks almost certainly lose to Bloodmoon if it comes out turn 3 in my experience.
So it seems like a simpler mana base gives you better access to bloodmoon in the sideboard, which is my most beloved sideboard card.
I must say that Atarka's command definitely seems to be one of the best cards in my build. It may be my opponent's inexperience against burn, but atarka's can net 5 damage when paired with an unblocked monastery swiftspear. Every once in a while being able to pump 2 unblocked creatures ruins an opponent's day. Another thing I'd miss without green is Destructive Revelery, but Smash to smithereens is a pretty close second to this card.
I just noticed on MTG top 8 that almost all the top Burn decks in the last 2 months play 0 copies of Atarka's command.
It seems most Burn decks on MTG top 8 are now doing 4 Lightning Helix, 4 Searing Blaze, and 4 Skullcrack. Anyone know why? Typically these are the flex cards in Burn. I've been out of the loop for the past few months (stopped playing around Eldrazi Winter)
Well Boros or Naya are both good options. There are pros and cons for running both and I do run both so I can have the versatility/diversity.
I run Boros primarily and people can agree or disagree everyone welcome to their opinion. Here are a few reasons....
1. I take less damage which helps against the mirror and aggro/zoo.
2. I dont have about half my deck locked out to Blood Moon cause its in my meta and I also use it sometimes in the side, yes I run 1 Plains.
3. Revelry is a great 2 for 1 but Wear // Tear is great option also same for Atarka's despite it having versatility and punch then Skullcrack. And frankly those are the 2 main reasons for G.
4. Inspiring Vantage made running Boros a little better although you dont have to have it Battlefield Forge is another option or you can run more fetches for deck thinning and Foundry's.
5. W has cards that are huge difference makers like Deflecting Palm which is a beast vs so many decks. Path to Exile , Wear // Tear, Stony Silence, Rest in Peace,. And we'll see how effective Mirran Crusader can be.
Is there much actual "straight" Boros being played, generally? The pre-DTK lists were usually RWg instead of RWG (where lowercase implies side only). I'm sure some have dropped green entirely, but most are still playing Destructive Revelry because it's awesome. RWg would still get called "Boros", even though some might be playing "straight" Boros.
If you go to MTGtop8 -> modern -> Red Deck Wins and then "compare" the first page of lists, there's an average of like 3.5 DRevs in the sideboards of those decks (after you cut out the mono-R Goblins list).
Hey all, quick update from GPLV, I'm 7-2 in the modern main after day 1. Made day 2 and still playing for top 8 or cash out.
I also played burn in GPLV legacy main to 11-4 only taking losses 3&4 in round 13&14 so I was very much in it right until the end. Top 8 was x/2s and a few x/3s.
Check out this Burn list that finished 3-4 out of 74 at Card Kingdom/Mox Boarding House. Very unique build in deed. Not my deck. Basically a Mono Red with splash of W for Wispmare.
Yes, it also gives you access to make landfall for Searing Blaze more easily.
For Leyline, you could also try siding Liquimetal Coating to turn Leyline into an artifact and then use an artifact removal of your choice.
Definitely
Yes. Fish also has DRev targets in Spreading Seas/Seas Claim.
How many would you bring in against a deck like Eldrazi and Taxes, that only have Vial as a target?
I tend to bring all 4 of them at once.
Thanks, I totally forget about this card. Is there any other similar card?
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
Liquimetal Coating is super niche. Not to mention that you need both, and it doesn't really do anything on it's own. It means oversideboarding, and heavily diluting your game plan, because you need to bring in removal, and a decent number of coatings. That's like 6-8 sideboard cards. If you're having trouble with Leyline (and I'm assuming you're mono-red), then exchange the Coatings for just creatures. Or just shift to a creature-heavy build. They'll get the damage in that you otherwise wouldn't be able to.
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
What about the matchups?
Yeah, if you're going to go adding Liquimetal Coating so that you can blow stuff up with Smash to Smithereens, you're just wasting sideboard slots. Just punt those matchups and use sideboard slots more thoughtfully.
I would argue NO since being forced into your third color against Vial decks which ALL prey on ruining your land base isn't worth it.
Its better imo to just hope to draw your lands and fetch correctly.
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
I'm not sure if adding 8 cards to the sideboard is that bad, In my Legacy burn deck I was playing 3 Vexing Shusher and I main decked 3 Exquisite Firecraft because of countertop before it was banned.
The interaction of Liquimetal Coating and Smash to Smithereens means I can destroy a basic land and give the opponent damage too.
But I'm not sold on Liquimetal Coating because it's a 2 mana artifact and I need Smash in my hand. In a deck that don't draw/tutor - this gets difficult. I think I would have better luck if I sideboarded 4 Qal Sisma Behemoth and pay the 2 mana for each attack.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
It seems most Burn decks on MTG top 8 are now doing 4 Lightning Helix, 4 Searing Blaze, and 4 Skullcrack. Anyone know why? Typically these are the flex cards in Burn. I've been out of the loop for the past few months (stopped playing around Eldrazi Winter)
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
The gist of it is Fatal Push pushed people away from Wild Nacatl coupled that with fear that playing maindeck green is too costly on your life total, and you get what I believe is an over-correction back to the pre-DTK decklists. I think it's similar to the "we have maindeck green, time to play Nacatl" in the summer following DTK and the adoption of AC.
However, someone else on this board will chew me out if I don't add that Inspiring Vantage makes it easier to play RW with less pain than the pre-DTK era and apparently a minority of players made the switch after Kaladesh for that reason.
I can see the point of Wild Nactal going out of favor from elconquistador's post above this . I don't have experience playing it though. It makes sense to me that Fatal Push entering the meta game makes cheap creatures less valuable. Perhaps people are overestimating it's effect though.
I'm not sure if this is related, but something to consider if playing only 2 colors:
I'm running a Jund burn list
1x Vexing Devil
2x Harsh Mentor
2x Grim Lavamancer
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Lava Spike
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Collateral Damage
2x Shard Volley
4x Rift Bolt
3x Searing Blaze
2x Skullcrack
4x Atarka's Command
4x Bump in the Night
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Arid Mesa
2x Stomping Ground
1x Blood Crypt
1x Copperline Gorge
1x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Mountain
1x Searing Blood
1x Searing Blaze
1x Everlasting Torment
1x Fatal Push
4x Blood Moon
4x Destructive Revelry
3x Slagstorm
If we were to build a deck with only r/w, you could probably fit in a plains as a 20th land. This would allow an advantage in a mirror match up especially, and allow you to play 4 bloodmoon in the sideboard with almost no consequence to yourself. I only play my modern deck here with the locals, but it seems that there are some greedy mana bases out there. I think moon punishes much harder than molten rain. Tron and 3-4 color decks almost certainly lose to Bloodmoon if it comes out turn 3 in my experience.
So it seems like a simpler mana base gives you better access to bloodmoon in the sideboard, which is my most beloved sideboard card.
I must say that Atarka's command definitely seems to be one of the best cards in my build. It may be my opponent's inexperience against burn, but atarka's can net 5 damage when paired with an unblocked monastery swiftspear. Every once in a while being able to pump 2 unblocked creatures ruins an opponent's day. Another thing I'd miss without green is Destructive Revelery, but Smash to smithereens is a pretty close second to this card.
Anyone else have ideas on r/w vs. r/w/g?
Well Boros or Naya are both good options. There are pros and cons for running both and I do run both so I can have the versatility/diversity.
I run Boros primarily and people can agree or disagree everyone welcome to their opinion. Here are a few reasons....
1. I take less damage which helps against the mirror and aggro/zoo.
2. I dont have about half my deck locked out to Blood Moon cause its in my meta and I also use it sometimes in the side, yes I run 1 Plains.
3. Revelry is a great 2 for 1 but Wear // Tear is great option also same for Atarka's despite it having versatility and punch then Skullcrack. And frankly those are the 2 main reasons for G.
4. Inspiring Vantage made running Boros a little better although you dont have to have it Battlefield Forge is another option or you can run more fetches for deck thinning and Foundry's.
5. W has cards that are huge difference makers like Deflecting Palm which is a beast vs so many decks. Path to Exile , Wear // Tear, Stony Silence, Rest in Peace,. And we'll see how effective Mirran Crusader can be.
Im sure others have more reasons.
If you go to MTGtop8 -> modern -> Red Deck Wins and then "compare" the first page of lists, there's an average of like 3.5 DRevs in the sideboards of those decks (after you cut out the mono-R Goblins list).
I also played burn in GPLV legacy main to 11-4 only taking losses 3&4 in round 13&14 so I was very much in it right until the end. Top 8 was x/2s and a few x/3s.
GRWNaya BurnGRW
GRWJundGRW
CAffinityC
UGUG EldraziUG
GRWBushwhacker ZooGRW
UBWRAd NauseamUBWR
Legacy
RBurnR
UBSneak & ShowUB
CEldrazi AggroC
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15864&d=297401&f=MO
18 LANDS
4 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Sacred Foundry
5 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
15 CREATURES
3 Bomat Courier
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Vexing Devil
27 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Burst Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Searing Blaze
3 Shard Volley
4 Skullcrack
SIDEBOARD
4 Deflecting Palm
4 Exquisite Firecraft
4 Guerrilla Tactics
3 Wispmare