In general, you want to be doing setup work in the early game against Death's Shadow. Play some creatures (preferably an Eidolon), suspend Rift Bolts, etc. Once they transition into the midgame, let 'er rip and swing with a bunch of burn at their face to finish them off before the Shadow can do its thing.
The math is fine, but you need to consider both colors together, not separately. Having 4 Mountains can really restrict your access to both splash colors. You really want 18 or so total off-colored mana so that you can have access to both W and G by turn 4 or so.
Could you clarify a bit on this?
Having 14 sources of each G and W would mean you have a 90% chance of having access to either on T1, T2 even higher etc. If you are saying that you might possibly use a fetch T1 and thus only have 13 sources for the last color you would still have a 90% chance to hit by T2. If you're talking bout by turn 3 or 4 you should absolutely have hit by then with only 14 sources of each.
I haven't played against the new DS, but I played the old DS this way where I'd poke them initially and then wait for them to do work for me towards killing themselves. I believe it was rather effective. I would poke them a few times and then force them to cross 13 on their own and then avoid casting spells until I could just kill them. The best is when you cast Searing Blaze on DS just to get 3 damage in and they waste a pump spell trying to keep it alive.
Edit: The idea is that you want a situation where they cross 13 and you can then kill them over the course of the rest of their turn plus your next turn and they're dead before DS matters. It takes 4-5 cards to do it.
Ehmm... They don't have to pump their death's shadows because searing blaze hits players first so Shadow grows by +3/+3 before it gets that damage.
That's right, which is why I said waste a pump spell trying to keep it alive. It's a misplay. I like it when my opponents misplay.
I haven't played against the new DS, but I played the old DS this way where I'd poke them initially and then wait for them to do work for me towards killing themselves. I believe it was rather effective. I would poke them a few times and then force them to cross 13 on their own and then avoid casting spells until I could just kill them. The best is when you cast Searing Blaze on DS just to get 3 damage in and they waste a pump spell trying to keep it alive.
Edit: The idea is that you want a situation where they cross 13 and you can then kill them over the course of the rest of their turn plus your next turn and they're dead before DS matters. It takes 4-5 cards to do it.
Ehmm... They don't have to pump their death's shadows because searing blaze hits players first so Shadow grows by +3/+3 before it gets that damage.
Even if it was at the same time, it would still not die. It only dies when statebased actions are checked, and then the player has lost life too which makes it stronger. I sideboard out Blaze vs Death's Shadow decks though, it feels too awkward since it doesn't kill Goyf, Death's Shadow, Tasigur or Angler.
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UG Arixmethes Combo UGR Wanderer UGB Tasigur Control URB Jeleva Storm RW Gisela Control
I haven't played against the new DS, but I played the old DS this way where I'd poke them initially and then wait for them to do work for me towards killing themselves. I believe it was rather effective. I would poke them a few times and then force them to cross 13 on their own and then avoid casting spells until I could just kill them. The best is when you cast Searing Blaze on DS just to get 3 damage in and they waste a pump spell trying to keep it alive.
Edit: The idea is that you want a situation where they cross 13 and you can then kill them over the course of the rest of their turn plus your next turn and they're dead before DS matters. It takes 4-5 cards to do it.
Ehmm... They don't have to pump their death's shadows because searing blaze hits players first so Shadow grows by +3/+3 before it gets that damage.
Even if it was at the same time, it would still not die. It only dies when statebased actions are checked, and then the player has lost life too which makes it stronger. I sideboard out Blaze vs Death's Shadow decks though, it feels too awkward since it doesn't kill Goyf, Death's Shadow, Tasigur or Angler.
I was talking about the old Suicide Zoo, which played several creatures that could be killed by Blaze (Nacatl, Lynx, Swift).
Blaze vs Death's Shadow is the same as Bolt vs 2/3 Goyf without an Instant in the grave yet. DS's P/T gets re-computed by the time marked damage would kill it. I have literally cast Blaze on a 3/3 or less Death's Shadow and had them blow a pump spell because they thought Blaze would kill it, and I did it because I was just fishing for 3 damage to their face because I was going to kill them before DS mattered.
This card was spoiled today and I was wondering what everyones thoughts were on it.
Pro-
Is fetchable at the end step so the tapped effect doesn't slow us down too much if we have an AC or DR in hand.
If it's in your hand and you're flooded you can cycle it out
Con-
Not Boros colours
Comes into play tapped if you need the green splash
Modern - Pyro Prison
Modern - GW Tron
Modern - Mono G Tron
Modern - RWg Burn
Commander - Yisan, The Wanderer Bard cEDH build
Commander - Edric, Spymaster of Trest - Budget/Casual list - complete
Commander - Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis - $35 Budget upgrade
Commander - Edgar Markov - $150 upgrade
Lands that Burn plays need to come in untapped on T1. That's why Clifftop Retreat doesn't make the cut and it's why the cycling duals and BFZ duals don't make the cut either. Burn can't afford to skip a turn like that.
Hey guys so i have been absent for a few months but I'm finally getting time to start tuning my deck again as I make my final preparations for GP Vegas in June. I'll be bringing my Mardu list to FNM tonight and up until this point I have thoroughly enjoyed it. I don't plan on flipping to Naya before the event but I do live in a very insulated meta (next town with an LGS is a hour drive) so if anyone has suggestions or advice on number of blazers, firewalkers, number of fast lands, ect. In particular I'm thinking of cutting a firewalker for an additional path, burn is by far the most popular deck where I live but I feel like 3 is unnecessary at an event where i may never see the mirror.
The math is fine, but you need to consider both colors together, not separately. Having 4 Mountains can really restrict your access to both splash colors. You really want 18 or so total off-colored mana so that you can have access to both W and G by turn 4 or so.
Could you clarify a bit on this?
Having 14 sources of each G and W would mean you have a 90% chance of having access to either on T1, T2 even higher etc. If you are saying that you might possibly use a fetch T1 and thus only have 13 sources for the last color you would still have a 90% chance to hit by T2. If you're talking bout by turn 3 or 4 you should absolutely have hit by then with only 14 sources of each.
How many basics are you recommending?
Read the next paragraph in Karsten's article (I'm assuming this is where you came up with the 14/90% numbers). You're a three color deck and you almost always want WG by turn 4, often by turn 3, and sometimes by turn 2. So you're looking at a double-mana-symbol-commitment which requires - / 20 / 19 / 18 / ... white or green sources to hit WG by turn 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / ... This can be messed with a little bit since you don't always see both colored spells, etc.
I typically run 2 Mountains in Naya, 3 Mountains in Rx + g in the board, and 3-5 Mountains for Rx.
I figured as much with the cycle lands. I am pretty locked in my ways as well but I'm always open to the option that I may not have originally perceived. Thanks
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Modern - Pyro Prison
Modern - GW Tron
Modern - Mono G Tron
Modern - RWg Burn
Commander - Yisan, The Wanderer Bard cEDH build
Commander - Edric, Spymaster of Trest - Budget/Casual list - complete
Commander - Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis - $35 Budget upgrade
Commander - Edgar Markov - $150 upgrade
I ran the following list to a 5-0 finish at a local Modern event this week. The field is weird since it's a small town, but the players are competitive and take the events seriously since it's a series with GP: Vegas sponsorship on the line. My previous records with similar decklists were 4-0, 3-2, 3-1, and 4-1, respectively.
The sideboard is always sculpted in the last few minutes before the tournament depending on who's around.
The main idea of the deck is to race everyone games 1 and 3. With 32 one-drops and 9 two-drops (opposed to 20/20ish splits in Boros/RWg/Nacatl), the deck is a turn or more faster than the other variants.
The suspect cards are likely Vexing Devil, Gonti's Machinations, and the missing Eidolon of the great revel. These in/exclusions are solely to achieve the above goal. I know the faults of the former two and the excellence of Eidolon, but the dynamics of this deck dictate something different than usual. I often run Rw(g) Burn with a stock list, and I know its achievements and do just fine with it too.
The match-ups I faced this week were:
Junk (2-1): +1 Eidolon, +1 Crack, +1 Tactics, +2 Bridge, -1 land, -4 Machinations on the draw; +1 land, +1 Blaze, -2 Bridge from this on the play
Grixis Delver (2-0): +1 Eidolon, +1 Tactics, +1 Blaze, +2 Bridge, -1 land, -3 Crack, -1 Machinations on the draw(; I would do +1 land, +1 Machinations, -2 Bridge from this on the play)
Living End (2-1): +1 Blaze, +1 Crack, +1 Rakdos Charm, +1 Cage, +2 Bridge, -1 land, -3 Eidolon of the Great Revel, -2 Swiftspear on the draw; +1 land, +2 Swiftspear, -3 Blaze from this on the play
Jeskai Nahiri (2-1): +1 Eidolon, +1 Crack, -1 Blaze, -1 Machinations on the play; -1 land, -1 Machiantions, +2 Blaze from this on the draw
Grixis Delver (2-0): +1 Eidolon, +1 Tactics, +1 Blaze, +2 Bridge, -1 land, -3 Crack, -1 Machinations on the draw(; I would do +1 land, +1 Machinations, -2 Bridge from this on the play)
Very bold move: no insurance against enchantments but yet making gonti's machinations work well (powess material for swiftspear, and face level helix). Come to think of it of all my matchups leyline of sanctity was encountered across the table in 3 decks: griselbrand, storm, and ad nauseam. What other enchantments is burn really afraid of?
4 Gonti's + 4 bump in the night (total 8) get around leylines just like Atarka's command (only 4), and you have 15 creatures instead of the usual 12-13, meaning it's easier getting about leylines. 17 lands cuz your curve is really low (I've tried mardu burn with similar curve 18 lands needed though), and daring to go 16 lands post board if necessary. I like your ideas around it.
Very interested in testing this against DS (should be easier: they don't have enough removal for so many of your creatures, and your topdeck threats is ... better. PB I'm guessing charm + bridge), affinity (I'm guessing smash + lavamancers), and eldrazitron (guessing smash and bridge).
Phyrexian Unlife and Worship are the only other enchantments that come to mind. It's actually 19 lands preboard and on the play and 18 lands postboard on the draw.
I’m receiving the final pieces of Burn in the mail shortly, and am planning to take it for a spin the next time I’m able to play Modern. Looking to take a break from URW and be the aggressor for a change of pace.
A few questions for the more experienced players here:
2. What do you find Burn’s most difficult matchups to be, and how do you approach them? I’ve done some solo playtesting online (two screens of TappedOut test decks), and it seems to me like the go-wide creature strategies (Elves, Merfolk) are a bit tough. Is this a common thought, or am I potentially misplaying these matches? Any other thoughts on the challenging match-ups and good plans of attack?
3. When sideboarding, what are your main targets to cut? I would think (i) Searing Blaze, when the opponent has few creatures with 1-3 toughness; (ii) Skullcrack, when other cards are more effective and the opponent isn’t gaining life; (iii) ?? -- I’m not sure what the other cuts are. Helix, when the lifegain isn’t relevant, since it's 2 for 3 damage? It doesn’t seem like cutting any of the 1 burn spells or Boros Charm is a good idea, as they’re the most efficient spells.
Do you ever cut any creatures? Maybe Eidolon vs. Tron/Bant Eldrazi/etc.? Any other situations?
4. Any tips on more ‘advanced’ lines of play? I have a general sense of playing on curve, saving more flexible spells (Bolt, Helix) over less flexible spells (Spike, Skullcrack), but what are some examples of ‘high-level plays’ available to Burn?
5. Obviously hands with creatures are preferable, but do you ever keep a 7 with a reasonable curve and no creatures, hoping to draw a T2/T3 creature or enough burn to finish the job? E.g., a hand like: 2 lands, Lightning Bolt, Rift Bolt, Lightning Helix, Boros Charm, Atarka’s Command.
Hey all! So I'm popping in the thread (as a reader for a while) to ask a question from a non-burn player currently. Right now Eidelon is stupidly expensive on MTGO (where I play), so do you think the deck can function at a tier 1-ish level without it? I'd love to get some feedback and some alternatives if possible. I just can't drop $125+ on 4 cards right now.
Postboard the deck had RIP. And I went full retard customizing the naya build with a single blood crypt for fatal push in the side. And there's deflecting palm. Was really really fun playing burn control.
Do you really need Push when you can have Path?
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Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Could you clarify a bit on this?
Having 14 sources of each G and W would mean you have a 90% chance of having access to either on T1, T2 even higher etc. If you are saying that you might possibly use a fetch T1 and thus only have 13 sources for the last color you would still have a 90% chance to hit by T2. If you're talking bout by turn 3 or 4 you should absolutely have hit by then with only 14 sources of each.
How many basics are you recommending?
GRWNaya BurnGRW
GRWJundGRW
CAffinityC
UGUG EldraziUG
GRWBushwhacker ZooGRW
UBWRAd NauseamUBWR
Legacy
RBurnR
UBSneak & ShowUB
CEldrazi AggroC
That's right, which is why I said waste a pump spell trying to keep it alive. It's a misplay. I like it when my opponents misplay.
Even if it was at the same time, it would still not die. It only dies when statebased actions are checked, and then the player has lost life too which makes it stronger. I sideboard out Blaze vs Death's Shadow decks though, it feels too awkward since it doesn't kill Goyf, Death's Shadow, Tasigur or Angler.
UGR Wanderer
UGB Tasigur Control
URB Jeleva Storm
RW Gisela Control
I was talking about the old Suicide Zoo, which played several creatures that could be killed by Blaze (Nacatl, Lynx, Swift).
Blaze vs Death's Shadow is the same as Bolt vs 2/3 Goyf without an Instant in the grave yet. DS's P/T gets re-computed by the time marked damage would kill it. I have literally cast Blaze on a 3/3 or less Death's Shadow and had them blow a pump spell because they thought Blaze would kill it, and I did it because I was just fishing for 3 damage to their face because I was going to kill them before DS mattered.
This card was spoiled today and I was wondering what everyones thoughts were on it.
Pro-
Is fetchable at the end step so the tapped effect doesn't slow us down too much if we have an AC or DR in hand.
If it's in your hand and you're flooded you can cycle it out
Con-
Not Boros colours
Comes into play tapped if you need the green splash
Modern - GW Tron
Modern - Mono G Tron
Modern - RWg Burn
Commander - Yisan, The Wanderer Bard cEDH build
Commander - Edric, Spymaster of Trest - Budget/Casual list - complete
Commander - Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis - $35 Budget upgrade
Commander - Edgar Markov - $150 upgrade
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Bump in the Night
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
2 Searing Blaze
2 Lightning Helix
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
1 Inspiring Vantage
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
3 Mountain
3 Path to Exile
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Searing Blaze
3 Rakdos Charm
2 Wear (Wear/Tear)
3 Kor Firewalker
Read the next paragraph in Karsten's article (I'm assuming this is where you came up with the 14/90% numbers). You're a three color deck and you almost always want WG by turn 4, often by turn 3, and sometimes by turn 2. So you're looking at a double-mana-symbol-commitment which requires - / 20 / 19 / 18 / ... white or green sources to hit WG by turn 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / ... This can be messed with a little bit since you don't always see both colored spells, etc.
I typically run 2 Mountains in Naya, 3 Mountains in Rx + g in the board, and 3-5 Mountains for Rx.
Modern - GW Tron
Modern - Mono G Tron
Modern - RWg Burn
Commander - Yisan, The Wanderer Bard cEDH build
Commander - Edric, Spymaster of Trest - Budget/Casual list - complete
Commander - Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis - $35 Budget upgrade
Commander - Edgar Markov - $150 upgrade
4 Vexing Devil
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Gonti's Machinations
4 Bump in the Night
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
3 Searing Blaze
3 Skullcrack
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
1 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Searing Blaze
1 Skullcrack
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Dragon's Claw
1 Guerrilla Tactics
2 Ensnaring Bridge
The sideboard is always sculpted in the last few minutes before the tournament depending on who's around.
The main idea of the deck is to race everyone games 1 and 3. With 32 one-drops and 9 two-drops (opposed to 20/20ish splits in Boros/RWg/Nacatl), the deck is a turn or more faster than the other variants.
The suspect cards are likely Vexing Devil, Gonti's Machinations, and the missing Eidolon of the great revel. These in/exclusions are solely to achieve the above goal. I know the faults of the former two and the excellence of Eidolon, but the dynamics of this deck dictate something different than usual. I often run Rw(g) Burn with a stock list, and I know its achievements and do just fine with it too.
The match-ups I faced this week were:
Junk (2-1): +1 Eidolon, +1 Crack, +1 Tactics, +2 Bridge, -1 land, -4 Machinations on the draw; +1 land, +1 Blaze, -2 Bridge from this on the play
Grixis Delver (2-0): +1 Eidolon, +1 Tactics, +1 Blaze, +2 Bridge, -1 land, -3 Crack, -1 Machinations on the draw(; I would do +1 land, +1 Machinations, -2 Bridge from this on the play)
Living End (2-1): +1 Blaze, +1 Crack, +1 Rakdos Charm, +1 Cage, +2 Bridge, -1 land, -3 Eidolon of the Great Revel, -2 Swiftspear on the draw; +1 land, +2 Swiftspear, -3 Blaze from this on the play
Jeskai Nahiri (2-1): +1 Eidolon, +1 Crack, -1 Blaze, -1 Machinations on the play; -1 land, -1 Machiantions, +2 Blaze from this on the draw
Grixis Delver (2-0): +1 Eidolon, +1 Tactics, +1 Blaze, +2 Bridge, -1 land, -3 Crack, -1 Machinations on the draw(; I would do +1 land, +1 Machinations, -2 Bridge from this on the play)
4 Gonti's + 4 bump in the night (total 8) get around leylines just like Atarka's command (only 4), and you have 15 creatures instead of the usual 12-13, meaning it's easier getting about leylines. 17 lands cuz your curve is really low (I've tried mardu burn with similar curve 18 lands needed though), and daring to go 16 lands post board if necessary. I like your ideas around it.
Very interested in testing this against DS (should be easier: they don't have enough removal for so many of your creatures, and your topdeck threats is ... better. PB I'm guessing charm + bridge), affinity (I'm guessing smash + lavamancers), and eldrazitron (guessing smash and bridge).
Thanks for sharing!
Oh, and Bump doesn't get around Leyline.
A few questions for the more experienced players here:
1. Any suggestions on the list I currently have?
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Inspiring Vantage
2 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creature (12)
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Rift Bolt
3 Searing Blaze
2 Skullcrack
2 Kor Firewalker
3 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Path to Exile
1 Searing Blaze
2 Skullcrack
1 Relic of Progenitus
2. What do you find Burn’s most difficult matchups to be, and how do you approach them? I’ve done some solo playtesting online (two screens of TappedOut test decks), and it seems to me like the go-wide creature strategies (Elves, Merfolk) are a bit tough. Is this a common thought, or am I potentially misplaying these matches? Any other thoughts on the challenging match-ups and good plans of attack?
3. When sideboarding, what are your main targets to cut? I would think (i) Searing Blaze, when the opponent has few creatures with 1-3 toughness; (ii) Skullcrack, when other cards are more effective and the opponent isn’t gaining life; (iii) ?? -- I’m not sure what the other cuts are. Helix, when the lifegain isn’t relevant, since it's 2 for 3 damage? It doesn’t seem like cutting any of the 1 burn spells or Boros Charm is a good idea, as they’re the most efficient spells.
Do you ever cut any creatures? Maybe Eidolon vs. Tron/Bant Eldrazi/etc.? Any other situations?
4. Any tips on more ‘advanced’ lines of play? I have a general sense of playing on curve, saving more flexible spells (Bolt, Helix) over less flexible spells (Spike, Skullcrack), but what are some examples of ‘high-level plays’ available to Burn?
5. Obviously hands with creatures are preferable, but do you ever keep a 7 with a reasonable curve and no creatures, hoping to draw a T2/T3 creature or enough burn to finish the job? E.g., a hand like: 2 lands, Lightning Bolt, Rift Bolt, Lightning Helix, Boros Charm, Atarka’s Command.
Thanks in advance!
Cheers!
The answer is if you can play anything else or Eidolon, play Eidolon. So much pressure.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
Do you really need Push when you can have Path?