Destructive Revelry is a pretty good argument for Naya over Mardu, but is it an argument for Naya over Jund?
Jund burn gets bump in the night, revelry, and atarkas. It loses Boros Charm and Path, but I'd happily trade Boros Charm for 4 more lava spikes, and Fatal Push is a pretty decent replacement for Path.
Jund burn also has access to abrupt decay and other great BG spells for sideboard tech.
In an aggro matchup won't having lightning helix be a difference maker? Or would skullcracks and commands just cancel it out?
Would gob guide get a reprint you think? Wizards has this habit of inconveniently dodging a few must-needed reprints in modern masters sets. And yeah I agree about your stand on black, it's great but W/G just meshes with the strategy and meta a bit better. But if over time they print a really good rakdos burn spell in the future, I'd be all over that. G/U are easily my least favorite colors tbh and I'd love for burn not to need green in the next few years lol.
Goblin Guide could a get a reprint, but if it is true that MM17 is focusing on Innistrad and Return to Ravinica blocks that could mean that it doesn't make the cut again.
Having played Naya (no cats), Mardu, and Boros+DRev Burn variants, I'll say that I much preferred Mardu to Naya. For me, it was really Rakdos Charm that made it. This was back when Dredge was new so everybody was clamoring over it. I loved that it was not only graveyard hate, but potentially a crazy efficient Burn spell depending on how fast they triggered their Amalgams/Blooghasts, and in a bind it was even a worse Skullcrack against Gnaw to the Bone. The graveyard mode also came into effect with Company decks, exiling their persist creature with the effect on the stack. I also used the damage mode against any go wide deck, not the least of which was Elves and Merfolk (it felt great to be happy to see a Master of Waves). Losing DRev did hurt, I'm not saying it didn't, but the only deck I felt you really needed the 2 damage for was Affinity, because the pressure mattered. I ran either three or four Wear//Tear, and that plus Rakdos Charm kept my Affinity hate plentiful. It was a slower game against them, sure, but I wouldn't call it worse (nor would I really call it better).
I ended up cutting Black and going straight Boros with a Green splash for sideboard DRev and AC when Inspiring Vantage was printed, because the inevitability of Burn is insane if we preserve our life totals. But it wasn't because I was unhappy with Black. I loved it.
Having played Naya (no cats), Mardu, and Boros+DRev Burn variants, I'll say that I much preferred Mardu to Naya. For me, it was really Rakdos Charm that made it. This was back when Dredge was new so everybody was clamoring over it. I loved that it was not only graveyard hate, but potentially a crazy efficient Burn spell depending on how fast they triggered their Amalgams/Blooghasts, and in a bind it was even a worse Skullcrack against Gnaw to the Bone. The graveyard mode also came into effect with Company decks, exiling their persist creature with the effect on the stack. I also used the damage mode against any go wide deck, not the least of which was Elves and Merfolk (it felt great to be happy to see a Master of Waves). Losing DRev did hurt, I'm not saying it didn't, but the only deck I felt you really needed the 2 damage for was Affinity, because the pressure mattered. I ran either three or four Wear//Tear, and that plus Rakdos Charm kept my Affinity hate plentiful. It was a slower game against them, sure, but I wouldn't call it worse (nor would I really call it better).
I ended up cutting Black and going straight Boros with a Green splash for sideboard DRev and AC when Inspiring Vantage was printed, because the inevitability of Burn is insane if we preserve our life totals. But it wasn't because I was unhappy with Black. I loved it.
Sorry for spamming the thread with questions.. what's the purpose of gut shot in sideboards?
Gut shot is mostly for infect, however can hit other card choices such as Birds of Paradise, Delver of Secrets, etc. It's a good card in the fact that you tap out which signals to your opponent that they are free to activate inkmoth nexus and start their pumps uncontested.
I played mardu burn for quite awhile and was a fierce advocator for it before Atarka's Command exsisted. Here was the list I ran changed for the times:
I didn't even bother with Lightning Helix main. Just 12 two-drops and a whole bunch of fast burn. I won 3 modern events in a row with that deck back in the day.
Sorry for spamming the thread with questions.. what's the purpose of gut shot in sideboards?
Gut shot is mostly for infect, however can hit other card choices such as Birds of Paradise, Delver of Secrets, etc. It's a good card in the fact that you tap out which signals to your opponent that they are free to activate inkmoth nexus and start their pumps uncontested.
In that case the probe banning made it even better.
Burn is favored vs infect. I don't like the idea of adding sideboard cards that are primarily for infect.
Gutshot/Sudden shock seem like wasted spots.
We've got Lightning Bolt/Helix/Rift Bolt/Lavamancer/Searing Blaze/Shard Volley that can shoot an infect guy.
Out of the sideboard: You've got potentially 2-4 copies of path to exile, 1-2 copies of deflecting palm, Revelry can hit their Inkmoth nexus or their spellskites.
If I was going to go back and try out Mardu again, I'd probably test ditching the two Lavamancers for two maindeck Helixes, to have a full playset in the 75. I might also ditch Flames of the Blood Hand in my board for something unless there was a lot of lifegain in my meta, just because I don't like running anything over 2CMC in my Burn decks. Everything else I'd keep exactly the same.
If I was going to go back and try out Mardu again, I'd probably test ditching the two Lavamancers for two maindeck Helixes, to have a full playset in the 75. I might also ditch Flames of the Blood Hand in my board for something unless there was a lot of lifegain in my meta, just because I don't like running anything over 2CMC in my Burn decks. Everything else I'd keep exactly the same.
I think most people would disagree with me, but I wouldn't. If I'm running exactly one non-fetch without the Mountain subtype, I want that land to be a Clifftop Retreat. The only time Inspiring Vantage would be better is in your opening hand, when it's the only land you have, and the hand is otherwise keep-worthy. That's happened exactly twice to me out of well over a hundred games (probably over two hundred), and once was on a mull to 6. The fourth land in burn is more important than I think a lot of people give it credit for, and as you draw your deck naturally your chances of that card being Clifftop/Vantage increase. Therefore it seems statistically better to me to have that fourth-plus land come in untapped on the chance you need it, knowing that the risk it comes in tapped when you need it is minimal at worst. However, if you're running two or more lands that don't have the Mountain subtype, then I totally agree, Vantage is better by miles.
Having said that, I haven't tested Mardu burn with Inspiring Vantage. Once I saw the card was spoiled, I went Boros and never looked back. So this assumption is based on theorycrafting. If you wanted to test it yourself, I would run the deck with one of them, and keep a note of what would have happened if you were playing the other card in the game. My guess is that nine times out of ten or more, it wouldn't have made a difference, but the times that it did it would have been Vantage coming in tapped more often than Retreat that hurt your game.
I think Boros Burn is getting overhyped right now. Atarka's Command is still an upgrade on Skullcrack whether you opt for Wild Nacatl or not, everyone is going to splash G for Destructive Revelry anyway, and Inspiring Vantage is still playable in a Naya shell. I think the emergence of Fatal Push as cheap spot removal makes Nacatls worse, but Nacatl-less Naya can run 4 fastlands and cut down on creatures and still do everything Boros Burn does, only better.
I think Boros Burn is getting overhyped right now. Atarka's Command is still an upgrade on Skullcrack whether you opt for Wild Nacatl or not, everyone is going to splash G for Destructive Revelry anyway, and Inspiring Vantage is still playable in a Naya shell. I think the emergence of Fatal Push as cheap spot removal makes Nacatls worse, but Nacatl-less Naya can run 4 fastlands and cut down on creatures and still do everything Boros Burn does, only better.
I agree. I've been playing maindeck Atarka's Command without Nacatl for a long time. It's too explosive to me to give up for more maindeck Lightning Helix or something.
Went with only 3 Nacatls, which may have been a mistake, but wanted a way to interact with Infect better so cut one for the Lavamancer.
I'm wondering about the sideboard. I hear people say that Grixis control (and blue control in general) is a good matchup but in my experience it is a combination of Spell Snares, Snapcasters, and Dispels until a Tasigur hits and then I can't come back. As there is a TON of control in the local meta here, but you can basically run into any semi-legitimate deck, what Sideboard cards do people find most helpful in Control matches?
I think I might just say to hell with it and go with this:
I think Boros Burn is getting overhyped right now. Atarka's Command is still an upgrade on Skullcrack whether you opt for Wild Nacatl or not, everyone is going to splash G for Destructive Revelry anyway, and Inspiring Vantage is still playable in a Naya shell. I think the emergence of Fatal Push as cheap spot removal makes Nacatls worse, but Nacatl-less Naya can run 4 fastlands and cut down on creatures and still do everything Boros Burn does, only better.
How would you construct a Naya manabase with four fastlands? I'm not doubting you, I'm legitimately wondering your advice on that.
That list has 14 W/G sources (which in turn gives you a 90% chance to find one by T1), 10 fetches to feed the Lavaman (who gets better in metas where Nacatl is worse), and enough fetchables to make sure your fetches aren't dead.
That list has 14 W/G sources (which in turn gives you a 90% chance to find one by T1), 10 fetches to feed the Lavaman (who gets better in metas where Nacatl is worse), and enough fetchables to make sure your fetches aren't dead.
If I were to run this I'd cut a Copperline for a Mountain. There's been way, way too many games I've failed to find a Mountain after being Path'd thanks to only running 2.
That list has 14 W/G sources (which in turn gives you a 90% chance to find one by T1), 10 fetches to feed the Lavaman (who gets better in metas where Nacatl is worse), and enough fetchables to make sure your fetches aren't dead.
naya burn noob here, is it ok if i take a look at what catless naya looks like?
In an aggro matchup won't having lightning helix be a difference maker? Or would skullcracks and commands just cancel it out?
Goblin Guide could a get a reprint, but if it is true that MM17 is focusing on Innistrad and Return to Ravinica blocks that could mean that it doesn't make the cut again.
I ended up cutting Black and going straight Boros with a Green splash for sideboard DRev and AC when Inspiring Vantage was printed, because the inevitability of Burn is insane if we preserve our life totals. But it wasn't because I was unhappy with Black. I loved it.
Mardu Burn
Monogreen Stompy
Legacy
Burn
Pauper
Dimir Flicker
Monowhite Tokens
what does your mardu list look like??
Gut shot is mostly for infect, however can hit other card choices such as Birds of Paradise, Delver of Secrets, etc. It's a good card in the fact that you tap out which signals to your opponent that they are free to activate inkmoth nexus and start their pumps uncontested.
I played mardu burn for quite awhile and was a fierce advocator for it before Atarka's Command exsisted. Here was the list I ran changed for the times:
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Bump in the Night
3 Shard Volley
4 Searing Blaze
4 Boros Charm
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Inspiring Vantage
2 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Kor Firewalker
3 Path to Exile
4 Wear // Tear
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Skullcrack
I didn't even bother with Lightning Helix main. Just 12 two-drops and a whole bunch of fast burn. I won 3 modern events in a row with that deck back in the day.
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
In that case the probe banning made it even better.
Gutshot/Sudden shock seem like wasted spots.
We've got Lightning Bolt/Helix/Rift Bolt/Lavamancer/Searing Blaze/Shard Volley that can shoot an infect guy.
Out of the sideboard: You've got potentially 2-4 copies of path to exile, 1-2 copies of deflecting palm, Revelry can hit their Inkmoth nexus or their spellskites.
There's just already so much.
4x Goblin Guide
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
2x Grim Lavamancer
Bolts
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Rift Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x Bump in the Night
4x Boros Charm
4x Skullcrack
3x Searing Blaze
Lands (19)
11x Fetches
2x Blood Crypt
2x Sacred Foundry
3x Mountain
1x Clifftop Retreat
3x Deflecting Palm
3x Rakdos Charm
2x Flames of the Blood Hand
2x Lightning Helix
1x Searing Blaze
4x Wear//Tear
If I was going to go back and try out Mardu again, I'd probably test ditching the two Lavamancers for two maindeck Helixes, to have a full playset in the 75. I might also ditch Flames of the Blood Hand in my board for something unless there was a lot of lifegain in my meta, just because I don't like running anything over 2CMC in my Burn decks. Everything else I'd keep exactly the same.
Mardu Burn
Monogreen Stompy
Legacy
Burn
Pauper
Dimir Flicker
Monowhite Tokens
how about running inspiring vantage over clifftop retreat?
Having said that, I haven't tested Mardu burn with Inspiring Vantage. Once I saw the card was spoiled, I went Boros and never looked back. So this assumption is based on theorycrafting. If you wanted to test it yourself, I would run the deck with one of them, and keep a note of what would have happened if you were playing the other card in the game. My guess is that nine times out of ten or more, it wouldn't have made a difference, but the times that it did it would have been Vantage coming in tapped more often than Retreat that hurt your game.
Mardu Burn
Monogreen Stompy
Legacy
Burn
Pauper
Dimir Flicker
Monowhite Tokens
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I agree. I've been playing maindeck Atarka's Command without Nacatl for a long time. It's too explosive to me to give up for more maindeck Lightning Helix or something.
11x Fetches
3x Copperline Gorge
2x Stomping Grounds
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Mountain
Creatures: (16)
4x Goblin Guide
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
3x Wild Nacatl
1x Grim Lavamancer
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x Boros Charm
4x Atarka's Command
4x Searing Blaze
3x Rift Bolt
1x Shard Volley
3x Destructive Revelry
3x Skullcrack
3x Path to Exile
2x Lightning Helix
2x Defelcting Palm
2x Relic of Progenitus
Went with only 3 Nacatls, which may have been a mistake, but wanted a way to interact with Infect better so cut one for the Lavamancer.
I'm wondering about the sideboard. I hear people say that Grixis control (and blue control in general) is a good matchup but in my experience it is a combination of Spell Snares, Snapcasters, and Dispels until a Tasigur hits and then I can't come back. As there is a TON of control in the local meta here, but you can basically run into any semi-legitimate deck, what Sideboard cards do people find most helpful in Control matches?
I think I might just say to hell with it and go with this:
4 Destructive Revelry
3 Skullcrack
3 Path to Exile
3 Lightning Helix
2 Deflecting Palm
How would you construct a Naya manabase with four fastlands? I'm not doubting you, I'm legitimately wondering your advice on that.
Mardu Burn
Monogreen Stompy
Legacy
Burn
Pauper
Dimir Flicker
Monowhite Tokens
2 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Inspiring Vantage
2 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
That list has 14 W/G sources (which in turn gives you a 90% chance to find one by T1), 10 fetches to feed the Lavaman (who gets better in metas where Nacatl is worse), and enough fetchables to make sure your fetches aren't dead.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
If I were to run this I'd cut a Copperline for a Mountain. There's been way, way too many games I've failed to find a Mountain after being Path'd thanks to only running 2.
naya burn noob here, is it ok if i take a look at what catless naya looks like?
My list is linked in my signature. Maindeck Atarka's Command, no Nacatls.