As for the people saying this deck is bad in the meta, on paper I believe they're right. This deck has no business beating all these midrange shadow decks, tron decks, etc. Despite this, I still find myself doing quite well with the deck every week at FNM as well as at larger tournaments. I'm playing the abzan build with both druid and finks combo, but I've jammed four knights into the deck along with a kessig wolf run/stomping ground package which has really helped me win more. I think the secret to this deck is just mastering it, as it always seems to work better in the hands of people who really know it and (pun intended) are devoted to it. The deck also offers plenty of room to Metagame for your environment, either mainboard or side. I encourage people to try different cards, for example I've been playing lingering souls x2 in the board for a while now and they've been absolutely amazing.
Played Abzan Counters at a 22 person WNM - 4 rounds.
Round 1 vs. Junk Eerie Interlude. This guy was running the upgraded Saffron Olive Junk Reanimator the past few weeks. Spicy stuff! I combo off super quickly after Tidehollow Scullers and in the next one, he mulled and after some removal, I found the Chord of Calling to go off. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. RUG Kiki. Super close losses. Tidehollow Sculler took apart his hand, but he found more Bolts. He didn't have a clock, so I rebuilt and comboed. In the next 2 games, I was not close to comboing. I floundered around and realized that Goyf + infinite Red removal is good against my creatures when I fail to draw Collected Company, other than once in game 2 where I had infinite mana. 1-2.
Round 3 vs. Blood Moon Red. I basically am 1 step ahead of him in these games and Chalice of the Void and Blood Moon don't do enough. Triple Slagstorm in game 2 was interesting, but I ended up getting there by Chording at his End of Turn for Vizier of Remedies to go with my Kitchen Finks in play, then sacrificing my Qasali Pridemage to destroy the Chalice on 1. Then I played Viscera Seer and he scooped. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Mardu Reveler. I comboed off in game 1 on my 2nd try after a freshly drawn Tidehollow Sculler made it easier. I never found a 2nd land and failed to Anger of the Gods. Had he waited 1 more turn, I would have had Chord of Calling for Burrenton Forge-Tender up (or if I had drawn a single land). I find a 2nd land when he doesn't have pressure, except 2 Lingering Souls tokens, but he tempoes me out at this point and I never find a blocker or Kitchen Finks for the tokens. The next game is close and is coming down to top decks. I finally find a Collected Company to get Burrenton Forge-Tender to stop his Reveler from attacking and he scoops a few turns later when I have the combo and Duskwatch Recruiter. I had sided out Walking Ballista and Rhonas, the Indomitable, but I could literally throw my whole deck of green creatures on the board and keep 7 in hand. 2-1.
I get 3-1, which isn't bad. I shied away from this deck for a while because it seems terrible in our meta, but honestly with the variance of Modern, it hardly matters what deck you play in my opinion. Sometimes it just seems like a bunch of decks trying to goldfish each other and he who stumbles first loses.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Why hello! It seems we're frequenting the same decks these days haha.
Grats on the finish. Yeah I always felt like the tales of the demise of this deck had been greatly exaggerated. Especially in a format heavy with humans, affinity and burn I feel we're in a good spot. The big range of other fringe stuff is always a mixed bag and deep runs at a tournament will in some part depend on your matchups but yeah I feel like this deck is just sleeping, waiting for a high profile finish and otherwise still very playable.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Round 1 vs. grixis Kiki. Same guy I played before on RUG Kiki. He plays a pretty solid curve. I peel some cards that die to Lightning Bolts and Kologhan's Command. He plays EoT Deceiver Exarch and then Kiki the following turn. X combo pieces vs. X removal often doesn't get there. In the next game, after using his 2nd Bolt to kill a Tidehollow Sculler, he taps out for Pia and Kiran Nalaar. I had Vizier in hand and I top deck Duskwatch Recruiter to win. He realized that I shouldn't have won this one. In the next game, it is much of the same, except he has Olivia Voldaren X 2. I can't even answer the first one with the draw I had. Still couldn't find Company. 1-2.
Round 2 vs. 8 whack. I am on the play. He plays Foundry Street Denizen into 2nd one and Goblin Guide. I combo off on turn 3 and kill him easily. In the next one, he hits me down to 10, but I get Burrenton Forge-Tender and it stops a Goblin Grenade and after I E Witness it back, it's tough for him to win now. 2-0.
Round 3 vs Humans. I kept a 2 land hand without mana dorks nd I tried to work up to my 2 Chords, but he swung and killed me with Vial in Kessig Malcontents into his just drawn card, Phantasmal Image for lethal. In the next game, I did turn 2 Liliana the Last Hope, but he kills it with triple Mantis Riders. But I combo off in time to win, despite that. In the final one, he does turn 2 Mantis Rider, but I combo off on turn 3 to win in time. Whew! 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Junk Eerie Interlude. Same guy as before. He started with 4 early path to exile and then played siege rhino, restoration angel, or eerie interlude each turn. I was 1 turn from winning, but he untapped and drew his 3rd Eerie Interlude with Rhino and double Resto Angel in play. I scoop because I'm at 4 life and it looks like "6 damage" to me. In the next game, I am on the play and after he taps out for Wall of Omens, I play Vizier and he scoops. In the final game, he plays 3 early Path to Exile. I keep thinking he will draw another one, but I keep drawing 2 bears and he has Resto Angel in hand and Wall of Omens out. He finally draws the last Path to Exile and it gets my Tidehollow Sculler that's holding Lingering Souls. He keeps swinging with the Angel and tokens and I have nothing for it when I have to block Siege Rhino. I literally needed him to whiff 1 turn and I could have come back. I have to block his Siege Rhino with double Kitchen Finks, Vizier of Remedies, AND Duskwatch Recruiter in order to stay alive since he has Vault of the Archangel. Without that, I was fine since he actually hadn't drawn another "lose 3 life" for the turn. I have now 2 Persisted Kitchen Finks left at 1 life. I draw my first Collected Company of the match. Great timing! 1-2.
The way I lost in Round 4 signified Modern in a nutshell to me. The deck in testing had a lot of turn 3 kills without disruption and even some slightly slower ones through disruption. But when I have played it, opponents have consistently had 2 Path to Exile or 2 Lightning Bolt in their opener. I am going to try Bogles next time. Probably will never see these such decks that I faced 2 tournaments in a row. May see the Tron players then... Don't you love Modern?
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I'm not in full panic mode but I reaaaally doubt this deck as it is now can survive in a meta with Jace and BBE. Blue control was already bad and Jund-ish decks were about even, and they both got better.
The one advantage we have is that Company is instant speed and can punish them if they tap out on 4 mana. But the grindy, interactive matches will be harder. BBE is basically a CoCo that always hits a 3/2 haste and can hit interactive spells. Also they have to counter both cards. It's possible this deck drops CoCo entirely and reorients itself around BBE. You can play more interaction and good stuff while also having some toolbox and combo elements. But I'm not sure if it's just better to play Jund at that point.
I'm not in full panic mode but I reaaaally doubt this deck as it is now can survive in a meta with Jace and BBE. Blue control was already bad and Jund-ish decks were about even, and they both got better.
The one advantage we have is that Company is instant speed and can punish them if they tap out on 4 mana. But the grindy, interactive matches will be harder. BBE is basically a CoCo that always hits a 3/2 haste and can hit interactive spells. Also they have to counter both cards. It's possible this deck drops CoCo entirely and reorients itself around BBE. You can play more interaction and good stuff while also having some toolbox and combo elements. But I'm not sure if it's just better to play Jund at that point.
This deck is dead in the water. No appearances in Top 32 GP Toronto, it hasn't made a top 8 in a long time, and the meta is chock full of interaction that kills all our stuff. We suck at grinding against mid-range, and we suck at winning the combo race against Storm / Tron. This deck just plain sucks in this meta, anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves.
Now they unban Jace? What a joke. This game is a joke, I'm so sick of wasting money just to have my decks banned or become obsolete.
I'm not in full panic mode but I reaaaally doubt this deck as it is now can survive in a meta with Jace and BBE. Blue control was already bad and Jund-ish decks were about even, and they both got better.
The one advantage we have is that Company is instant speed and can punish them if they tap out on 4 mana. But the grindy, interactive matches will be harder. BBE is basically a CoCo that always hits a 3/2 haste and can hit interactive spells. Also they have to counter both cards. It's possible this deck drops CoCo entirely and reorients itself around BBE. You can play more interaction and good stuff while also having some toolbox and combo elements. But I'm not sure if it's just better to play Jund at that point.
This deck is dead in the water. No appearances in Top 32 GP Toronto, it hasn't made a top 8 in a long time, and the meta is chock full of interaction that kills all our stuff. We suck at grinding against mid-range, and we suck at winning the combo race against Storm / Tron. This deck just plain sucks in this meta, anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves.
Now they unban Jace? What a joke. This game is a joke, I'm so sick of wasting money just to have my decks banned or become obsolete.
I feel the same. But forinstance I want to make it work. If testing will result in infi losses, I night consider switching. For now I keep playing coco
This deck is dead in the water. No appearances in Top 32 GP Toronto, it hasn't made a top 8 in a long time, and the meta is chock full of interaction that kills all our stuff. We suck at grinding against mid-range, and we suck at winning the combo race against Storm / Tron. This deck just plain sucks in this meta, anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves.
Well, I have to disagree with you completely. There are a few reasons. First of all, I got 2nd place in a ~660 players Modern tournament about one month ago. The meta was basically the meta we are (still) living in. There was also another Counters Company deck in the top8: http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/coverage-mkm-series-frankfurt-2018-modern/#top8decks
It was 10 rounds + top8 within one day. I went 9-1 (no ID was possible). The only round (round 3) I lost was to Grishoalbrand which T2ed me pre and post board (I think losing such a game is legit).
I beat like 5 different Death Shadow variations, Burn, Elves and other grind stuff I don't remember (I have to admit, that I dodged Tron and Shift decks completely). The deck felt super strong and my list was streamlined, meaning all-in combo main deck. 4 Witness + 4 Path gave me the tools to beat Shadow reliably. I comboed a lot but also grinded a lot thanks to Recruiter, Finks, Witnesses, Township and Gideon out of the board.
The Blood Artist was in my "let's try this one" spot and won me some games. It's a tricky card which especially hoses Shadow decks and in general has some kind of surprise effect. Also, I wanted to have a clean way to win out of the inf life combo.
On a side note: I had an average of 20 to 30 minutes time to eat/drink/recover between rounds. Concerning a 10 rounds tournament this is not unimportant from a competitive point of view.
After the tournament I started to grind the deck on MTGO again. I don't care about the annoying triggers because I want to practice the deck against the field (sometimes it is really, really annoying. But whatever... priorities :D). Nowadays most opponents concede immediately, anyways. Whenever I lose this 1 out of 30 game because "I only got to 200 life while my opponent recovered and beat me with 4 Goyfs" then that's it: I lost the virtual game (and maybe some tix) but won, concerning a paper tournament. Somehow that's 'ok' for me I absolutely understand everyone for whom it's not. Again: Priorities.
I think the deck is still and will always be a good choice if you just stick to it and play it correctly. I mean, who can deny free wins on T3? Especially in this wild and fringe Modern world. I played Melira CoCo since the printing of Collected Company and the first couple of pages in the former MtGSalvation thread "Look 'Ma, no Pod". There were times apparently no one played the deck (during the Twin era) and times when everyone played the deck (Eldrazi winter). Whenever everyone played the deck it felt worse because people had it on the radar. Whenever the deck is on the radar, people start to understand the deck and its weaknesses.
Despite that, after a frustrating "beginners era" I started to nearly always go positive with the deck. Sometimes it is just 3-2, sometimes it is 5-0, but only very rarely it is 2-3 or worse.
I, personally, am not relying on results or statistics. Everyone knows, that the MTGO appearance of the deck goes to 0 compared with other decks (however, I had two 5-0's in the last week but somehow WotC chose to not publish it, whatever). Also, I have the feeling that most pro players somehow don't really like the deck and thus it is underplayed in the hands of good players. Most importantly: In Modern you have to stick to your deck and trust your (card) choices. There are tournaments when you totally get crushed by hate and then one week later there is a tournament where you just fly through the field and have 30+ minutes time to relax each round. Don't be frustrated by a "getting totally crushed" tournament just stick to the deck. Actually, of course, you also should like the deck and have fun playing it :D... in the end you will be rewarded.
The deck will (and always has) adapt to whatever new villain there is. A T2 Vizier is still one of the most scary things you can do in Modern these days. I do not fear Jace at this moment. They land Jace, we play CoCo eot and kill him/combo/gain value/whatever. We have the tools to pressure. I am not saying it will be easy, but there will be a way. The same way true Lantern players will try to get Lantern through the new meta (which, honestly, seems like a Nobelprize challenge :P).
Our challenge will not be Jace or BBE themselves but rather the decks they are going to awaken from their slumber. Jund is worse than Junk for us, people will generally play more Bolts now due to fight Jace and there will for sure be a rise of the good old 4c Scapehift. But just let them fight each other and hope that they will slowly forget about the good old "Melira" Combo deck... and then we can rise again. It's the circle of Modern.
I am in the same state as you are. Right now I am brewing on the right build to fight off the ‘new’ meta.
What is the list you are running?
May I ask why you run Blood Artist in your mainboard?
I think this deck gains surprise value in the new meta and voice of resurgence is a card that stacks up well against jund and control type decks alike.
I'd run three.
Abzan seems to be a decent colour combo right now.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Here is the list I played at open.
6-3
1-2 Skred (eidolon/harsh mentor in main)
Jeskai midrsnge: 2-0 (geist is gas)
Merfolk: 2-1
Etron: 2-1 (geist op)
Sun/Moon:2-1 (geist is gas) [this man won the clsssic]
affintiy: 2-0 (ee/pintiff)
Etron:1-2 (I drew pure gsrbage)
affinity: 2-1 (ee/pontiff)
jeskai breach: 1-2 (I punted so hard, missed 2 voice triggers and forgot to play scooze)
I would run same 75 back, except put voices in main and Sculler in side, and change 1 pontiff to a 3rd unified will Geist/Forgtenders hard carried all day.
Has anyone tested Phyrexian Revoker in their list? I ran it out of the board in the past (meta choice) and he actually was surprisingly good. In the current meta, he seems like a good way to combat Jace, Lili, Scooze and possibly even gets around Thrun, if people start including him, from Jund(which, by all accounts is bound for a resurgence), really hoses affinity decks(which some people are saying may become more prevalent again to try to go under Jace), can buy vital turns against Tron, and can slow down elves. While it seems like the initial thought is that he'll just have removal aimed at him, in my experience this actually helps the combo plan. He eats removal that could be aimed at our combo pieces and has the ability to buy us an extra turn, which with the combo plan is usually enough to get a win. I was always happy when someone would aim removal at him. I tested him out instead of Skuller, and liked him a lot better tbh (I tested both, and settled on revoker). The ability to grab revoker out of the gy with Witness and replay it on the same target came up a lot, and that's something Skuller typically doesn't have the ability to do. Yes, he is not a very proactive card, but he really can be a big obstacle certain decks HAVE to answer instead of focusing their resources on stopping us from comboing off. The negative I found was that in some mana dork heavy hands with only a revoker, he didn't always do much. I'd contend that I probably shouldn't have kept those hands, however. I just hate to ship a good mana dork start. The other negative, which Skuller did not have, was that there are certain matches he was absolutely dead against. To this, I still felt his flexibility made him better than Skuller when comparing the two.
Wondering if anyone else has recently tried him out and what their experiences have been. I think I might look to sleeve him back up and give him another try.
@ThePennSylanLibrary
Been playing Revoker in the board for a while now and he's very good at doing what he's supposed to do - shut down specific, high-impact abilities (Liliana, Ballista, Ugin, Map, O-Stone, etc.). I like him a lot
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"I can call an army to my side in the blink of an eye. Best not blink."
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
You can always bring in Ooze/Pridemage/Tracker/Fiend Hunter from sideboard.
Are they run in MD because they are the most versatile of all silver bullets? Have I just answered my question? Or is just a matter of taste?
Maybe I am only overthinking this.
Thanks for your opinion, live long and prosper.
Basically. Ooze is just too incidentally good against many decks. I find that I usually don't side it out. It excels in grindy matchups, shuts down graveyard combo decks, and gains incidental life and blocks against aggro. It's not always great but it's rarely among your worst cards in a matchup, so it deserves the MB spot. The rest I agree are SB cards. Lists have mostly moved away from MD Pridemage and Fiend Hunter, though Tireless Tracker is a consideration if there's a lot of midrange around. I suppose Pridemage too depending on your meta. I think Selfless Spirit is the next best bullet, currently. I've seen people mess around with Rallier and Anafenza but I think the general consensus is that Rallier is a little awkward and the deck doesn't need another combo regarding Anafenza (she used to show up a lot though).
Personally I am running 3 Tidehollow Sculler and an Ooze in my flex spots right now, but there are a lot of combo decks where I play that I like having interaction with. I was running Rhonas for about a month but I can't even remember if he's ever been relevant.
By the way, if Boggles is the only Leyline deck you are worried about, they will lose to infinite life. So you still have a way to combo them out and can usually do it with infinite G mana as long as you have access to a chord or coco, or of course a regular B source.
Sorry, I don’t have experience with Vial specifically.
If you don’t mind, I did want to generate a little sidebar discussion about Voice of Resurgence, particularly in Bant Vizier shells. As a disclaimer I haven’t finished building the deck yet so I’m working off my previous experience with Voice, CoCo, and Chord in related toolbox decks and I’m relying on you experienced players to keep the conversation grounded in Bant Vizier.
In some ways Voice seems like a great card for grindy matchups — it discourages counterspells and leaves a potentially large Elemental behind when it dies. This might help stall the game against fatties or even give us a slightly more credible beatdown plan B in some rare cases. Rebuying Voice with Witness can be great, too.
But on another level I can’t tell if it’s actually working with the deck’s plan. To my knowledge, Bant Vizier wants to play a more reactive game, often holding its Quellers, Chords, and CoCos for the opponent’s turn to respond to spells or play during their end step. In these scenarios if a UW control player counters our CoCo during their turn or if a Jund player immediately Bolts the Druid that we Chorded in during their end step Voice gives no value. Voice wants us to generally make important plays during our own turn.
Additionally, the opponent often seems incentivized to *not* remove Voice and save their interaction for combo pieces. If we exhaust their removal with our Devoted Druids and Viziers then we get to keep a 2/2 Voice on the board, which does nothing for our combo plan and might not be enough to get us there with beats.
In summary, I adore Voice but I worry that it might create some tension in our play timing while not progressing our primary plan if the opponent lets it stick. Does that make any sense? Would cards like Selfless Spirit, Spellskite, Fauna Shaman, Coiling Oracle, or just the 4th Vizier and Recruiter be better in the Voice slot vs interactive decks? Or perhaps I’m thinking about this wrong and not giving Voice enough credit here? I’d love to hear more about everyone’s experience with the card.
@ Moneymakermich: 19 lands + 4 Vials + 8 Birds/Hierarchs seems like a lot of air. Very easy to flood if your opponent interacts with your first few relevant cards. Maybe at least add 2-3 Horizon Canopy?
@ Shelldell: I think your concerns are right. Voice is best in decks that a) want to protect spells on their own turn/force the opponent into giving them a token and b) can actively sacrifice it (Viscera Seer, Eldritch Evolution) to get access to a big token. It will still help you in grindy matchups and as a blocker vs aggressive strategies, but its synergy with cards like Spell Queller is low. Also, I think with Jace unbanned, many controlling strategies will rely less on countermagic and playing on the opponent's turn, so Voice might get a less impactful anyway.
Im preparing for the upcoming jace/jund meta and this is my list so far. I havent changed much from what Im used to play, Ive won the 3 last tournaments on my LGS. Starting to write down a sideboard plan, any suggestions are welcome
The focus of the main deck is to combo ASAP, and the only two flex spots are tireless tracker (help on slow game 1 against controls) and spellskite as a catch all removal.
Round 1 vs. Junk Eerie Interlude. This guy was running the upgraded Saffron Olive Junk Reanimator the past few weeks. Spicy stuff! I combo off super quickly after Tidehollow Scullers and in the next one, he mulled and after some removal, I found the Chord of Calling to go off. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. RUG Kiki. Super close losses. Tidehollow Sculler took apart his hand, but he found more Bolts. He didn't have a clock, so I rebuilt and comboed. In the next 2 games, I was not close to comboing. I floundered around and realized that Goyf + infinite Red removal is good against my creatures when I fail to draw Collected Company, other than once in game 2 where I had infinite mana.
Round 3 vs. Blood Moon Red. I basically am 1 step ahead of him in these games and Chalice of the Void and Blood Moon don't do enough. Triple Slagstorm in game 2 was interesting, but I ended up getting there by Chording at his End of Turn for Vizier of Remedies to go with my Kitchen Finks in play, then sacrificing my Qasali Pridemage to destroy the Chalice on 1. Then I played Viscera Seer and he scooped. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Mardu Reveler. I comboed off in game 1 on my 2nd try after a freshly drawn Tidehollow Sculler made it easier. I never found a 2nd land and failed to Anger of the Gods. Had he waited 1 more turn, I would have had Chord of Calling for Burrenton Forge-Tender up (or if I had drawn a single land). I find a 2nd land when he doesn't have pressure, except 2 Lingering Souls tokens, but he tempoes me out at this point and I never find a blocker or Kitchen Finks for the tokens. The next game is close and is coming down to top decks. I finally find a Collected Company to get Burrenton Forge-Tender to stop his Reveler from attacking and he scoops a few turns later when I have the combo and Duskwatch Recruiter. I had sided out Walking Ballista and Rhonas, the Indomitable, but I could literally throw my whole deck of green creatures on the board and keep 7 in hand. 2-1.
I get 3-1, which isn't bad. I shied away from this deck for a while because it seems terrible in our meta, but honestly with the variance of Modern, it hardly matters what deck you play in my opinion. Sometimes it just seems like a bunch of decks trying to goldfish each other and he who stumbles first loses.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Grats on the finish. Yeah I always felt like the tales of the demise of this deck had been greatly exaggerated. Especially in a format heavy with humans, affinity and burn I feel we're in a good spot. The big range of other fringe stuff is always a mixed bag and deep runs at a tournament will in some part depend on your matchups but yeah I feel like this deck is just sleeping, waiting for a high profile finish and otherwise still very playable.
Round 1 vs. grixis Kiki. Same guy I played before on RUG Kiki. He plays a pretty solid curve. I peel some cards that die to Lightning Bolts and Kologhan's Command. He plays EoT Deceiver Exarch and then Kiki the following turn. X combo pieces vs. X removal often doesn't get there. In the next game, after using his 2nd Bolt to kill a Tidehollow Sculler, he taps out for Pia and Kiran Nalaar. I had Vizier in hand and I top deck Duskwatch Recruiter to win. He realized that I shouldn't have won this one. In the next game, it is much of the same, except he has Olivia Voldaren X 2. I can't even answer the first one with the draw I had. Still couldn't find Company. 1-2.
Round 2 vs. 8 whack. I am on the play. He plays Foundry Street Denizen into 2nd one and Goblin Guide. I combo off on turn 3 and kill him easily. In the next one, he hits me down to 10, but I get Burrenton Forge-Tender and it stops a Goblin Grenade and after I E Witness it back, it's tough for him to win now. 2-0.
Round 3 vs Humans. I kept a 2 land hand without mana dorks nd I tried to work up to my 2 Chords, but he swung and killed me with Vial in Kessig Malcontents into his just drawn card, Phantasmal Image for lethal. In the next game, I did turn 2 Liliana the Last Hope, but he kills it with triple Mantis Riders. But I combo off in time to win, despite that. In the final one, he does turn 2 Mantis Rider, but I combo off on turn 3 to win in time. Whew! 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Junk Eerie Interlude. Same guy as before. He started with 4 early path to exile and then played siege rhino, restoration angel, or eerie interlude each turn. I was 1 turn from winning, but he untapped and drew his 3rd Eerie Interlude with Rhino and double Resto Angel in play. I scoop because I'm at 4 life and it looks like "6 damage" to me. In the next game, I am on the play and after he taps out for Wall of Omens, I play Vizier and he scoops. In the final game, he plays 3 early Path to Exile. I keep thinking he will draw another one, but I keep drawing 2 bears and he has Resto Angel in hand and Wall of Omens out. He finally draws the last Path to Exile and it gets my Tidehollow Sculler that's holding Lingering Souls. He keeps swinging with the Angel and tokens and I have nothing for it when I have to block Siege Rhino. I literally needed him to whiff 1 turn and I could have come back. I have to block his Siege Rhino with double Kitchen Finks, Vizier of Remedies, AND Duskwatch Recruiter in order to stay alive since he has Vault of the Archangel. Without that, I was fine since he actually hadn't drawn another "lose 3 life" for the turn. I have now 2 Persisted Kitchen Finks left at 1 life. I draw my first Collected Company of the match. Great timing! 1-2.
The way I lost in Round 4 signified Modern in a nutshell to me. The deck in testing had a lot of turn 3 kills without disruption and even some slightly slower ones through disruption. But when I have played it, opponents have consistently had 2 Path to Exile or 2 Lightning Bolt in their opener. I am going to try Bogles next time. Probably will never see these such decks that I faced 2 tournaments in a row. May see the Tron players then...
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)The one advantage we have is that Company is instant speed and can punish them if they tap out on 4 mana. But the grindy, interactive matches will be harder. BBE is basically a CoCo that always hits a 3/2 haste and can hit interactive spells. Also they have to counter both cards. It's possible this deck drops CoCo entirely and reorients itself around BBE. You can play more interaction and good stuff while also having some toolbox and combo elements. But I'm not sure if it's just better to play Jund at that point.
This deck is dead in the water. No appearances in Top 32 GP Toronto, it hasn't made a top 8 in a long time, and the meta is chock full of interaction that kills all our stuff. We suck at grinding against mid-range, and we suck at winning the combo race against Storm / Tron. This deck just plain sucks in this meta, anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves.
Now they unban Jace? What a joke. This game is a joke, I'm so sick of wasting money just to have my decks banned or become obsolete.
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
I feel the same. But forinstance I want to make it work. If testing will result in infi losses, I night consider switching. For now I keep playing coco
I am in the same state as you are. Right now I am brewing on the right build to fight off the ‘new’ meta.
What is the list you are running?
May I ask why you run Blood Artist in your mainboard?
What list you are going to run next week?
I'd run three.
Abzan seems to be a decent colour combo right now.
6-3
1-2 Skred (eidolon/harsh mentor in main)
Jeskai midrsnge: 2-0 (geist is gas)
Merfolk: 2-1
Etron: 2-1 (geist op)
Sun/Moon:2-1 (geist is gas) [this man won the clsssic]
affintiy: 2-0 (ee/pintiff)
Etron:1-2 (I drew pure gsrbage)
affinity: 2-1 (ee/pontiff)
jeskai breach: 1-2 (I punted so hard, missed 2 voice triggers and forgot to play scooze)
I would run same 75 back, except put voices in main and Sculler in side, and change 1 pontiff to a 3rd unified will Geist/Forgtenders hard carried all day.
1 Botanical Sanctum
1 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Temple Garden
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Watery Grave
4 Windswept Heath
Creatures
1 Walking Ballista
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Viscera Seer
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Selfless Spirit
3 Vizier of Remedies
4 Devoted Druid
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Spell Queller
2 Eternal Witness
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Path to Exile
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Sin Collector
2 Unified Will
1 Engineered explosives
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Kataki, War's Wage
Standard
BUG SuperFriends
Modern
RWGKiki's CastleRWG
UB Turns UB
GRBU HulkBreach GRBU
Legacy
GRWBNic-ShiftGRWB
Wondering if anyone else has recently tried him out and what their experiences have been. I think I might look to sleeve him back up and give him another try.
Been playing Revoker in the board for a while now and he's very good at doing what he's supposed to do - shut down specific, high-impact abilities (Liliana, Ballista, Ugin, Map, O-Stone, etc.). I like him a lot
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
Basically. Ooze is just too incidentally good against many decks. I find that I usually don't side it out. It excels in grindy matchups, shuts down graveyard combo decks, and gains incidental life and blocks against aggro. It's not always great but it's rarely among your worst cards in a matchup, so it deserves the MB spot. The rest I agree are SB cards. Lists have mostly moved away from MD Pridemage and Fiend Hunter, though Tireless Tracker is a consideration if there's a lot of midrange around. I suppose Pridemage too depending on your meta. I think Selfless Spirit is the next best bullet, currently. I've seen people mess around with Rallier and Anafenza but I think the general consensus is that Rallier is a little awkward and the deck doesn't need another combo regarding Anafenza (she used to show up a lot though).
Personally I am running 3 Tidehollow Sculler and an Ooze in my flex spots right now, but there are a lot of combo decks where I play that I like having interaction with. I was running Rhonas for about a month but I can't even remember if he's ever been relevant.
By the way, if Boggles is the only Leyline deck you are worried about, they will lose to infinite life. So you still have a way to combo them out and can usually do it with infinite G mana as long as you have access to a chord or coco, or of course a regular B source.
If you don’t mind, I did want to generate a little sidebar discussion about Voice of Resurgence, particularly in Bant Vizier shells. As a disclaimer I haven’t finished building the deck yet so I’m working off my previous experience with Voice, CoCo, and Chord in related toolbox decks and I’m relying on you experienced players to keep the conversation grounded in Bant Vizier.
In some ways Voice seems like a great card for grindy matchups — it discourages counterspells and leaves a potentially large Elemental behind when it dies. This might help stall the game against fatties or even give us a slightly more credible beatdown plan B in some rare cases. Rebuying Voice with Witness can be great, too.
But on another level I can’t tell if it’s actually working with the deck’s plan. To my knowledge, Bant Vizier wants to play a more reactive game, often holding its Quellers, Chords, and CoCos for the opponent’s turn to respond to spells or play during their end step. In these scenarios if a UW control player counters our CoCo during their turn or if a Jund player immediately Bolts the Druid that we Chorded in during their end step Voice gives no value. Voice wants us to generally make important plays during our own turn.
Additionally, the opponent often seems incentivized to *not* remove Voice and save their interaction for combo pieces. If we exhaust their removal with our Devoted Druids and Viziers then we get to keep a 2/2 Voice on the board, which does nothing for our combo plan and might not be enough to get us there with beats.
In summary, I adore Voice but I worry that it might create some tension in our play timing while not progressing our primary plan if the opponent lets it stick. Does that make any sense? Would cards like Selfless Spirit, Spellskite, Fauna Shaman, Coiling Oracle, or just the 4th Vizier and Recruiter be better in the Voice slot vs interactive decks? Or perhaps I’m thinking about this wrong and not giving Voice enough credit here? I’d love to hear more about everyone’s experience with the card.
@ Shelldell: I think your concerns are right. Voice is best in decks that a) want to protect spells on their own turn/force the opponent into giving them a token and b) can actively sacrifice it (Viscera Seer, Eldritch Evolution) to get access to a big token. It will still help you in grindy matchups and as a blocker vs aggressive strategies, but its synergy with cards like Spell Queller is low. Also, I think with Jace unbanned, many controlling strategies will rely less on countermagic and playing on the opponent's turn, so Voice might get a less impactful anyway.
Im preparing for the upcoming jace/jund meta and this is my list so far. I havent changed much from what Im used to play, Ive won the 3 last tournaments on my LGS. Starting to write down a sideboard plan, any suggestions are welcome
1x Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Devoted Druid
3x Duskwatch Recruiter
3x Eternal Witness
4x Kitchen Finks
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Rhonas the Indomitable
1x Spellskite
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Viscera Seer
4x Vizier of Remedies
1x Walking Ballista
2x Forest
2x Gavony Township
1x Godless Shrine
1x Horizon Canopy
4x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
2x Razorverge Thicket
1x Swamp
2x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
Instant (8)
4x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Dusk / Dawn
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Orzhov Pontiff
2x Path to Exile
1x Pharika, God of Affliction
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Selfless Spirit
2x Tidehollow Sculler
The focus of the main deck is to combo ASAP, and the only two flex spots are tireless tracker (help on slow game 1 against controls) and spellskite as a catch all removal.
Controls
In
Out
Jund
In
Out
Aggro decks (Merfolk, Humans, Deathshadow, Zoo)
In
Out
Burn
In
Out
Tron
In
Out
Affinity
In
Out
Counters Company
In
Out