Because black gives you banana bowl man and some removal and green gives just goyf. Thats the start. Tasigur avoids one of the most annoying cards in hte format which is abrupt decay making it better as a card vs junk than goyf would. Also your removal cna answer goyfs and rhinos on their own. Thus the grixis list might actually be better. Second the splashes are really only good vs junk right now and by splashing you also lose a bit of the unfair plan which gets you through a significant portion of the meta. Overall grixis might be slightly better but also the meta isn't conducive to you really wanting to splash. You just play the consistent ur twin with mana denial to try and beat junk and the deck does very well.
If the format was uwr, scapeshift and bgx then grindier decks with better fair plans would be attractive but right now they aren't
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Currently Playing:
Modern: RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy: UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander: UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
So one of the things we were discussing in the BG Rock forum quite a while back was the ability for 2 color decks to have access to a full set of Tec edges. That might be able to work here in the UR mana denial build. 4 Tec edges alongside 4 Spreading Seas might just be enough of a speed bump without the liability that Blood Moon has. Enough Cascade Bluffs and you don't even need to lose the Cryptics, although 2 might be the right number. 3 Tec edge and 1 Lighthouse? I don't have the Cryptics or Remands so someone else will need to pick up the torch.
So one of the things we were discussing in the BG Rock forum quite a while back was the ability for 2 color decks to have access to a full set of Tec edges. That might be able to work here in the UR mana denial build. 4 Tec edges alongside 4 Spreading Seas might just be enough of a speed bump without the liability that Blood Moon has. Enough Cascade Bluffs and you don't even need to lose the Cryptics, although 2 might be the right number. 3 Tec edge and 1 Lighthouse? I don't have the Cryptics or Remands so someone else will need to pick up the torch.
Cascade bluffs and lots of colorless lands is a train wreck waiting to happen. I personally am ok already with just a few spreading seas and twin creatures/remands pressuring their mana in rug. You already force their hand with twin creatures and playing remands and seas really puts the hammer down.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy: UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander: UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
Oh, I was trying to see what Lavamancer did alone, but your point is pretty good. Him + Bolt actually kills Rhinos, Tasigur and Goyfs. That's huge. My love for Todd Anderson's build is growing each day. So techy.
Oh, I was trying to see what Lavamancer did alone, but your point is pretty good. Him + Bolt actually kills Rhinos, Tasigur and Goyfs. That's huge. My love for Todd Anderson's build is growing each day. So techy.
I am pretty interested in his build also, going to be testing it out for sure
Oh, I was trying to see what Lavamancer did alone, but your point is pretty good. Him + Bolt actually kills Rhinos, Tasigur and Goyfs. That's huge. My love for Todd Anderson's build is growing each day. So techy.
Oh, I was trying to see what Lavamancer did alone, but your point is pretty good. Him + Bolt actually kills Rhinos, Tasigur and Goyfs. That's huge. My love for Todd Anderson's build is growing each day. So techy.
I personally was going to run 1x Peek and 2x Thought Scour as opposed to 3x Thought Scour just because knowing your opponents hand can be so valuable at times
Because black gives you banana bowl man and some removal and green gives just goyf. Thats the start. Tasigur avoids one of the most annoying cards in hte format which is abrupt decay making it better as a card vs junk than goyf would. Also your removal cna answer goyfs and rhinos on their own. Thus the grixis list might actually be better. Second the splashes are really only good vs junk right now and by splashing you also lose a bit of the unfair plan which gets you through a significant portion of the meta. Overall grixis might be slightly better but also the meta isn't conducive to you really wanting to splash. You just play the consistent ur twin with mana denial to try and beat junk and the deck does very well.
If the format was uwr, scapeshift and bgx then grindier decks with better fair plans would be attractive but right now they aren't
Those are good points, but isn't part of the appeal of Tarmogoyf that he forces your opponent to make difficult decisions about how to use their removal? It's obviously good that Tasigur dodges Abrupt Decay, but at the same time you're removing the decision making from the equation. If they have Decay it's going to be aimed at your combo creatures by virtue of them being the only targets for it. They either have a different answer for Tasigur or they don't, and Abrupt Decay is meanwhile sitting dead in their hand waiting for you to cast a Pestermite. With Tarmogoyf you take some pressure off your combo creatures by providing another very tempting target for their Decays.
But by playing rug yes you do hedge against junk but the opportunity cost is making yourself worse against twins good matchups. It's not about the idea of trying to beat junk it's about trying to have a deck for the entire meta
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Currently Playing:
Modern: RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy: UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander: UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
The Problem with the goyf splash right now is you try to outsmart your opponent with it:
While you beat them down with Goyf they still have to consider your combo. The Problem with this is that once your Opponent casts Lingering Souls this tempo based strategy doesnt work anymore.
On another note i would like to try a white splash for sideboard cards like timely and wear//tear. Here is the list im playing today in a local Tournament:
I am thinking of putting in one Vedalken shackles for 1 clique. I pLater a mirror match last night and the shackles were giving me all sorts of problems. They would be good in the mirror and can make matches against Abzan and other beat down decks better. Thoughts?
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
The Problem with the goyf splash right now is you try to outsmart your opponent with it:
While you beat them down with Goyf they still have to consider your combo. The Problem with this is that once your Opponent casts Lingering Souls this tempo based strategy doesnt work anymore.
On another note i would like to try a white splash for sideboard cards like timely and wear//tear. Here is the list im playing today in a local Tournament:
Like the Timely Reinforcements in the board. Not sure about Blood Moon. I personally would like some more tempo spells or something else in game one but if your meta is heavy on Abzan and Jund go for it.
Let us know how your tourney goes today! Good luck!
Cascade Bluffs is good. Also Banana man is worse than Goyf, because he isn't on curve for us, and the ability is pretty irrelevant, as it is in general.
@7ornado - Sorry man, both UWR and Grixis are unproven decks. Meaning they do not fit the criteria for the T1 portion of the forums. If your interested you can find that information here. Like I have stated earlier, since Grixis does not currently have a home or at least an active one and after the showing it made at PT Fate Reforged, We'd allow the discussions here.
@Fanne - MTG Salvation UWR TWIN THREAD this might help. Unfortunately, the one colour combination we cant discuss in this thread is white. Again, Grixis and Patriot are unproven decks. Yes I know the white splash is minimal in your version and reminiscent of Jund Souls or early BGx white splashes, however, I cannot update white cards into the Primer since another primer exists. I hope it helps, and good luck with your tournament.
Do u prefer PT winner's list of top 4's list?I think that maindeck Blood Moon is not a good idea cause it's a dead card againts a lot of decks...still not know if it's better put 2x Mana Leak or 1x Peek and 1x Dispel.
Blood moon md is a meta call and something I would not want to be doing right now. I would just play antonio's list if I was going to pick a list and play it tomorrow
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Currently Playing:
Modern: RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy: UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander: UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
I am in the final steps of tuning a rug list for an Fnm this week. Do you guys think spell snare or izzet charm is more relavent right now. That would be the second snare or first charm. The question if it's relavent to have 7 removal spells while keeping the counter package at 3 remand 2 cryptic and 2 more either 2 snares or 1 charm 1 snare. Removal is 4 bolt electrolyze and a flame slash. So should I go 6 removal and 7 counters or add charm to equalize both. Snare for bgx might be more relavent though
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Currently Playing:
Modern: RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy: UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander: UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
@7ornado - Sorry man, both UWR and Grixis are unproven decks. Meaning they do not fit the criteria for the T1 portion of the forums.
This is a bit facetious. Splashing black for Tasigur and Terminate is hardly making a new deck. Grixis twin is, quite literally, Tarmogoyf to Tasigur, removal 5&6 to Terminate, with maybe some different sideboard options. This is not a new deck. It's still a twin deck. Things like that should have a place for discussion here. Or, if it doesn't then tarmotwin needs a new thread too. UWR twin tends to diverge a bit more, but honestly I'm not sure if it's all that different either...
Twin is just in an interesting spot where the core deck is UR--everything you need can be in these colors. Most decks don't have cores in only two colors and so the colors are already kind of set. As such, there is a lot of flexibility in choosing for a potential third color splash. Most decks don't have this flexibility, which is why people don't really discuss splashes as much.
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Because black gives you banana bowl man and some removal and green gives just goyf. Thats the start. Tasigur avoids one of the most annoying cards in hte format which is abrupt decay making it better as a card vs junk than goyf would. Also your removal cna answer goyfs and rhinos on their own. Thus the grixis list might actually be better. Second the splashes are really only good vs junk right now and by splashing you also lose a bit of the unfair plan which gets you through a significant portion of the meta. Overall grixis might be slightly better but also the meta isn't conducive to you really wanting to splash. You just play the consistent ur twin with mana denial to try and beat junk and the deck does very well.
If the format was uwr, scapeshift and bgx then grindier decks with better fair plans would be attractive but right now they aren't
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
Cascade bluffs and lots of colorless lands is a train wreck waiting to happen. I personally am ok already with just a few spreading seas and twin creatures/remands pressuring their mana in rug. You already force their hand with twin creatures and playing remands and seas really puts the hammer down.
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
I am pretty interested in his build also, going to be testing it out for sure
"If it was easy, everyone would do it."
I've been wondering if it's worth running Grim Lavamancer in the UR shell with Thought Scour over Sleight of Hand/Peek. With Forked Bolt mostly gone and graveyards staying pretty full without Cruise/Dig, Lavamancer seems good.
I personally was going to run 1x Peek and 2x Thought Scour as opposed to 3x Thought Scour just because knowing your opponents hand can be so valuable at times
"If it was easy, everyone would do it."
Those are good points, but isn't part of the appeal of Tarmogoyf that he forces your opponent to make difficult decisions about how to use their removal? It's obviously good that Tasigur dodges Abrupt Decay, but at the same time you're removing the decision making from the equation. If they have Decay it's going to be aimed at your combo creatures by virtue of them being the only targets for it. They either have a different answer for Tasigur or they don't, and Abrupt Decay is meanwhile sitting dead in their hand waiting for you to cast a Pestermite. With Tarmogoyf you take some pressure off your combo creatures by providing another very tempting target for their Decays.
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
As you are main decking Blood Moon, a Plains instead of Fountain? You have sufficient other blue sources I think.
Like the Timely Reinforcements in the board. Not sure about Blood Moon. I personally would like some more tempo spells or something else in game one but if your meta is heavy on Abzan and Jund go for it.
Let us know how your tourney goes today! Good luck!
@Fanne - MTG Salvation UWR TWIN THREAD this might help. Unfortunately, the one colour combination we cant discuss in this thread is white. Again, Grixis and Patriot are unproven decks. Yes I know the white splash is minimal in your version and reminiscent of Jund Souls or early BGx white splashes, however, I cannot update white cards into the Primer since another primer exists. I hope it helps, and good luck with your tournament.
Blood moon md is a meta call and something I would not want to be doing right now. I would just play antonio's list if I was going to pick a list and play it tomorrow
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
I think I will be playing it for the next couple weeks until I see how my local meta shakes out.
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
I agree.
I have tried out that list and found it to be very good. Will keep it as it is for now.
This is a bit facetious. Splashing black for Tasigur and Terminate is hardly making a new deck. Grixis twin is, quite literally, Tarmogoyf to Tasigur, removal 5&6 to Terminate, with maybe some different sideboard options. This is not a new deck. It's still a twin deck. Things like that should have a place for discussion here. Or, if it doesn't then tarmotwin needs a new thread too. UWR twin tends to diverge a bit more, but honestly I'm not sure if it's all that different either...
Twin is just in an interesting spot where the core deck is UR--everything you need can be in these colors. Most decks don't have cores in only two colors and so the colors are already kind of set. As such, there is a lot of flexibility in choosing for a potential third color splash. Most decks don't have this flexibility, which is why people don't really discuss splashes as much.