Woodfall Primus has been good. Modern is very diverse, so I didn't want to be caught without an answer to stuff like Blood Moon or Ensnaring Bridge maindeck. I used to run Reclamation Sage in that slot, but the Sage is a dead card if you don't have a target, whereas Primus is a valid threat. So sick with a Breach.
I've tried both 3 and 4 Valakuts, and you can make a valid case for both. I think the risk is worth it after playing more with the deck. Oftentimes, it doesn't matter. You can still sequence two CIPT lands first two turns and still Anger on turn 3, for example. But the times when you naturally draw 2 Valakuts in a slower game? It's devastating. Hardcasting a Titan with 4 mountains and 2 Valakuts is almost as good as the combo.
3 is good if you're splashing or want an extra fetch as additional green source. The latter was my best argument for running 3.
So modern nexus wasnt exactly clear, since they are lumping breach and shift togather now on their rankings, but the combined results of these two make a tier 1 stats, so thats where were at right now
I keep seeing everyone's list now adopting the simian spirit guide and chalice of the void. Now I know the value chalice has against decks like infect and it is great against Cheeri0s (on zero), but why is it run mainboard after infect's meta-share has dropped significantly?
I suppose my question is why is there the sudden switch to everyone running chalice/ssg when before it seemed like there were serious differences in everyone's flex spots (Nahiri/PnK/Scapeshift/Oracle)?
What other plays am I not seeing with the chalice? It seems bad against BGx, Tron, and Affinity which makes up a huge percentage of the field right now.
Simian Spirit Guide on the other hand is too good in this deck to not run 2/3 copies of.
I think the reason you see chalice being played so much is that card just shuts down so much out of so many decks, and if we're already running SSG, it doesn't take much to slot them in.
I keep seeing everyone's list now adopting the simian spirit guide and chalice of the void. Now I know the value chalice has against decks like infect and it is great against Cheeri0s (on zero), but why is it run mainboard after infect's meta-share has dropped significantly?
I suppose my question is why is there the sudden switch to everyone running chalice/ssg when before it seemed like there were serious differences in everyone's flex spots (Nahiri/PnK/Scapeshift/Oracle)?
What other plays am I not seeing with the chalice? It seems bad against BGx, Tron, and Affinity which makes up a huge percentage of the field right now.
Chalice provides disruption that normally isn't available in red and green's color pie. It can also play defense against discard and random hate like Surgical Extraction. Almost every other deck run at least some 1cc spells, so unless it's against a Valakut mirror, Chalice won't be completely dead.
The other options instead of Chalice can be substandard. There's Lightning Bolt, which is weak against some percentage of the metagame, just like Chalice, but Bolt has a lower ceiling in the good matchups. And there's Oath of Nissa to make the deck somewhat more consistent, but I'm not sure it moves the needle very much.
i don't know but i would never take out emrakul. She gave me too many games for me to take her out. I'm running 2 and no summoning trap. Yeah it can be clunky sometimes but it is so life saving or game ending that i find it unconceivable to take her out. I won vs boggles last friday with a TTB/emrakul on turn 4 in game 1 and on turn 5 in game 2.
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Modern:
-Rg valakut
-U/W control
-U/R storm
-G/W value town
Summoning Trap makes the deck too slow. The only reason to play Breach over Scapeshift is the extra turn afforded by SSG/Breach. Otherwise, Titan Shift has the advantage in consistency, fewer mulligans, and better ramp.
So last night I faced a Rakdos Packrat deck which hit me with t1 thoughtseize (-1 search for tomorrow), t2 duress (-farseek), and t3 inquisition (-STE). Eventually I was left with 2 breaches in hand which were stuck all game while he smacked me around with packrats and rabblemaster gobs. Feels bad man.
The point being, I was really feeling the downside of this deck being a 2 card combo, and wanted to make sure that I was sideboarding correctly by taking out the breaches g2/3 and putting baloths in?
So last night I faced a Rakdos Packrat deck which hit me with t1 thoughtseize (-1 search for tomorrow), t2 duress (-farseek), and t3 inquisition (-STE). Eventually I was left with 2 breaches in hand which were stuck all game while he smacked me around with packrats and rabblemaster gobs. Feels bad man.
The point being, I was really feeling the downside of this deck being a 2 card combo, and wanted to make sure that I was sideboarding correctly by taking out the breaches g2/3 and putting baloths in?
I still like to keep some TTBs against discard, since it will mostly affect your ramp and slamming a PrimeTime on Turn 6 may be too late if he has a board presence. Obstinate Baloth is anyway a reasonable call, more for the body than for the discard protection (duress and IoK naturally miss him, Seize is safe on the first few turns. This changes if you saw a Lily or Kommand, though). I'd like to see your list before saying how you should SB, but general guidelines would be, in order: Emrakul (or any other Breach fatty) > 1 Simian (only if not playing Chalice) > 1 TTB > Anger > 1 Pact (only if you run the set, I wouldn't advise running less than 3). Since he plays main deck duress is reasonable to say you won't get more than one ramp spell early game, so it's a good idea to maximize your sequencing.
So last night I faced a Rakdos Packrat deck which hit me with t1 thoughtseize (-1 search for tomorrow), t2 duress (-farseek), and t3 inquisition (-STE). Eventually I was left with 2 breaches in hand which were stuck all game while he smacked me around with packrats and rabblemaster gobs. Feels bad man.
The point being, I was really feeling the downside of this deck being a 2 card combo, and wanted to make sure that I was sideboarding correctly by taking out the breaches g2/3 and putting baloths in?
I still like to keep some TTBs against discard, since it will mostly affect your ramp and slamming a PrimeTime on Turn 6 may be too late if he has a board presence. Obstinate Baloth is anyway a reasonable call, more for the body than for the discard protection (duress and IoK naturally miss him, Seize is safe on the first few turns. This changes if you saw a Lily or Kommand, though). I'd like to see your list before saying how you should SB, but general guidelines would be, in order: Emrakul (or any other Breach fatty) > 1 Simian (only if not playing Chalice) > 1 TTB > Anger > 1 Pact (only if you run the set, I wouldn't advise running less than 3). Since he plays main deck duress is reasonable to say you won't get more than one ramp spell early game, so it's a good idea to maximize your sequencing.
I'm fairly new to the deck (was on Titanshift for a while) so I'm unfamiliar with the sideboarding strategies. Based on the input I'm getting so far from you guys, it appears that cutting some numbers of TTB and SSG and leaving 1 or 2 copies is preferred against discard?
Also, fracturing gust is there because of my meta - I see lantern control and bogles and it's been proving very, very good. There's very little burn where I am that's why I avoid Chalice totally.
Any suggestions to improve the deck? Thinking of going up to 2 scapeshifts as a secondary wincon but not sure where to cut. I get hit by surgical extractions and crumble to dusts fairly often so I need a secondary wincon. Been considering worldspine wurm over scapeshift as well (since unlike Emrakul I can fetch it with pact).
I'm fairly new to the deck (was on Titanshift for a while) so I'm unfamiliar with the sideboarding strategies. Based on the input I'm getting so far from you guys, it appears that cutting some numbers of TTB and SSG and leaving 1 or 2 copies is preferred against discard?
Also, fracturing gust is there because of my meta - I see lantern control and bogles and it's been proving very, very good. There's very little burn where I am that's why I avoid Chalice totally.
Any suggestions to improve the deck? Thinking of going up to 2 scapeshifts as a secondary wincon but not sure where to cut. I get hit by surgical extractions and crumble to dusts fairly often so I need a secondary wincon. Been considering worldspine wurm over scapeshift as well (since unlike Emrakul I can fetch it with pact).
Thanks.
Yes, Simian Spirit Guide is bad against discard and control, and you don't have Chalice for free wins either. Don't be afraid to go down to 0, 1, or 2 copies for more relevant spells. I would recommend playing the 4th Farseek over the 4th SSG.
I think siding out 1 Breach is fine against discard, but would keep the 3rd in if possible. Discard will impact the number of lands you have in play to hardcast Titan, so Breach ends up functioning as a 1 mana cheat in addition to the normal combo. As long as you aren't flooding on multiple copies, Breach is still really good against discard.
Obviously, Breach is your strongest card against counters, so take out all copies of SSG before any Breaches if against control.
I don't see how playing 1 Gust will make a difference against Lantern. Why would they let you topdeck it or allow it to stay in your hand? If you need to hit multiple artifacts, why not more copies of Ancient Grudge?
Bogles is such an easy matchup if you go up to 4 Anger of the Gods.
Why not play Woodfall Primus? He's maindeckable because you can Pact for him; he will allow you to interact with artifacts, enchantments, and lands game 1; and still acts as an alternate win condition. You can also rebuy him by siding in Pulse of Murasa.
Pulse is another very flexible card. Against burn, you can side out a couple of Farseek so you can still ramp with fetches while gaining life. It's decent against discard, counters, and multiplies the number of answers like Primus and Reclamation Sage.
An alternate win condition fatty is better than the 2nd Scapeshift. The 2nd Scapeshift won't help you against Extraction or Crumble.
I haven't tried out Worldspine Wurm, but only because Primus does everything that I want.
I'm fairly new to the deck (was on Titanshift for a while) so I'm unfamiliar with the sideboarding strategies. Based on the input I'm getting so far from you guys, it appears that cutting some numbers of TTB and SSG and leaving 1 or 2 copies is preferred against discard?
Also, fracturing gust is there because of my meta - I see lantern control and bogles and it's been proving very, very good. There's very little burn where I am that's why I avoid Chalice totally.
Any suggestions to improve the deck? Thinking of going up to 2 scapeshifts as a secondary wincon but not sure where to cut. I get hit by surgical extractions and crumble to dusts fairly often so I need a secondary wincon. Been considering worldspine wurm over scapeshift as well (since unlike Emrakul I can fetch it with pact).
Thanks.
Yes, Simian Spirit Guide is bad against discard and control, and you don't have Chalice for free wins either. Don't be afraid to go down to 0, 1, or 2 copies for more relevant spells. I would recommend playing the 4th Farseek over the 4th SSG.
I think siding out 1 Breach is fine against discard, but would keep the 3rd in if possible. Discard will impact the number of lands you have in play to hardcast Titan, so Breach ends up functioning as a 1 mana cheat in addition to the normal combo. As long as you aren't flooding on multiple copies, Breach is still really good against discard.
Obviously, Breach is your strongest card against counters, so take out all copies of SSG before any Breaches if against control.
I don't see how playing 1 Gust will make a difference against Lantern. Why would they let you topdeck it or allow it to stay in your hand? If you need to hit multiple artifacts, why not more copies of Ancient Grudge?
Bogles is such an easy matchup if you go up to 4 Anger of the Gods.
Why not play Woodfall Primus? He's maindeckable because you can Pact for him; he will allow you to interact with artifacts, enchantments, and lands game 1; and still acts as an alternate win condition. You can also rebuy him by siding in Pulse of Murasa.
Pulse is another very flexible card. Against burn, you can side out a couple of Farseek so you can still ramp with fetches while gaining life. It's decent against discard, counters, and multiplies the number of answers like Primus and Reclamation Sage.
An alternate win condition fatty is better than the 2nd Scapeshift. The 2nd Scapeshift won't help you against Extraction or Crumble.
I haven't tried out Worldspine Wurm, but only because Primus does everything that I want.
Thanks, that's very insightful.
I'll try cutting 1 SSG for 1 more Farseek and see how that goes. Maybe my opinion of Gust is biased because I did manage to hit 6 Lantern pieces with it the other day, and 2 Leylines in another game. May consider putting a Grudge in its place after more testing - triple G can be a bit onerous.
I do have Pulses to try out in the SB, and have been considering a maindeck Primus. Seems that Primus has been working out well for you - I'm just wondering whether I cut the maindeck Baloth or ramp for it?
I do have Pulses to try out in the SB, and have been considering a maindeck Primus. Seems that Primus has been working out well for you - I'm just wondering whether I cut the maindeck Baloth or ramp for it?
I would cut Baloth instead of any ramp. If you absolutely need Baloth, move the Scapeshift to the sideboard instead.
Preparing for a 1K tomorrow. I'm new to this thread but have been playing the archetype for six months or so. I understand the difference between TitanShift and RG Breach. I'm playing the latter and I have some questions:
why have lists moved away from Oath of Nissa? Too many whiffs/doesn't do enough?
is Chandra, Torch of Defiance only good with Courser of Kruphix and vice versa, or has anyone had any luck running them separately? It takes between 4-6 slots for that kind of build, and it pushes the deck much more midrange, which I'm not sure is where it wants to be.
Fetches: The Scapeshift variants seem to run only 4 fetches in favor of more lands to sacrifice which makes sense. But in a Scapeshift-less, pure-Breach build, why not run 8+ Fetches and only one or two Stomping Grounds in favor of the full four Cinder Glades and more basic mountains? A commentator once said that Cinder Glades in RG Breach are as close as we get to ABUR duals in Modern. I hate drawing Stomping Grounds, I basically only want to fetch them up, ramp with basic lands, and draw Cinder Glades later on.
Lightning Bolt: people are running 4 or zero! What gives? In my mind, removal is good and direct damage is a great topdeck possibility, although it does take away from the primary game play. They also do seem to be the first to go when it comes to sideboarding.
Pulse of Murasa: some people swear by this, but it hasn't been widely adopted. Any reason besides being afraid of Skullcrack? It seems good to rebuy our limited number of threats, which is very proactive.
The age-old Farseek vs Explore debate. I thought this was settled a while ago in favor of Farseek, but the more I think about it Explore can mitigate flooding late game? Or am I wrong.
Another way to answer my abundance of questions (apologies) would be to explain your preference between two sample lists I've created.
Classic/SSG vs. Chandra/Courser Midrange
- Oath of Nissa really is only useful if you are running Nahiri, I provides better consistency of casting her, without having to worry about fetching sacred foundry.
- In my testing Chandra can be good without courser, however as you say it does slow down the deck and makes it less explosive. I say this in the sense of having 4-6 slots for these cards.
- Simian Spirit Guide has the advantage of getting to play chalice more consistently in the deck. It also alows again for the more explosive starts. This is what the breach versions tend to compromise; more fragile, explosive starts vs consistency.
- You say that only 4 fetches would be fine, however as much as cinder glade has it's advantages, the problem is that when you account for valakut, you are now talking about 7 of 25 lands which will most likely come in tapped.
With the ramp versions you are running more basics, so the problem is less apparent. Since breach is trying to combo as efficiently and quickly as possible, you need the fetches to insure you can hit whatever land you need when you need it. Breach lists only run 2 forests. That is all they can afford. This being said, stomping ground becomes the most efficient land we can run. As much as you don't want to play stomping grounds, sometime getting that SFT turn 1 is super critical and there really is no option.
- In my opinion the number of bolt you run completely depends on what flex cards you are running. The problem is that outside you core of cards, there are a plethora of ways you can shape the main. The direct damage is nice.
Though if the deck is built to handle other issues, then bolt ends up as an afterthought. I recently played at regionals and ran 0 bolts. The reason is that I subbed Chalice of the Void into the main. This is only one
example of how the number of bolts can vary.
- Pulse IS a great card. I have experimented with it and it does have it's purposes. It works particularly well against B/G/x decks, where they rely on discard to disrupt our game plan. Against burn it can be a double edged
sword. However that match up is iffy to begin with, and unfortunately it comes down to who top decks better. Baloth is in my opinion the best answer to gaining life where the match ups matter.
- As for explore vs. farseek, I don't think it will ever be solved. I will say that farseek guarantees you the land. Explore is better when you are guaranteed to play a second land. I was trying 3 farseek/1 explore for a few
months and I had no problems with the configuration. I feel like it really comes down to personal preference and what "feels" correct.
To simply answer your question, (since I have literally be responding to this from the top down)
The difference between courser lists versus SSG is that courser lists are a little slower and feel more like a midrange deck. SSG lists a a little more all-in or combo centric. I can go into more detail, but hopefully anything I said was helpful.
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Modern
R/G Breach RG
Scapeshift URG Legacy
Painter UBRW Commander
Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
Queen Marchesa WBR
Muzzio, Visionary Architect U
Sorry, to further explain. I have had success with both versions you posted. I played courser for a very long time and never had any issues. However with the recent resurgence of decks like death's shadow and burn, I switched to the SSG version to race them, and make casting Chalice on one, T1-2 much more consistent. I think either version is good. But if you are expecting anything quicker than normal, go with the SSG list. Side note, chalice works wonders against Ad Nauseam which is a terrible matchup. Also I would consider running 2 Ancient grudge over the shatterstorm. It has more uses. Especially against inkmoth nexus decks and lantern control. You obviously plan on running bolts already, which already has good coverage as well.
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Modern
R/G Breach RG
Scapeshift URG Legacy
Painter UBRW Commander
Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
Queen Marchesa WBR
Muzzio, Visionary Architect U
Hey! I've been a long time lurker in this thread and have been playing this deck, exclusively, for about 8 months. I've tried almost every build that has come up and almost every card that I have thought about adding to make it spicier. I have a stack of cards that I keep rotating in and out when I'm feeling up to it. I've tried the 4 SSG/Chalice, PnK/Courser/Oracle, Nahiri, Oath of Nissa/Chandra, Emmy/Trap, just about everything.
The build that I'm on at the moment has proven itself for about a month straight at local weekly tournaments, playing about 2-3 times a week: Monday, Friday and Saturday--my local card shop hits 30-50 people for every event all week and has a super diverse and competitive meta-game. It's quite refreshing. I almost always go 3-0-1/4-0-1 with an ID in the final round or 3-1/4-1.
I'd like to share my list, discuss cards, and also post tournament reports. I do wish I owned a singleton scapeshift for my build, but it's eluded me for some time.
Moving Woodfall Primus in the main is probably one of the best decisions I've ever made. I don't regret it in the slightest. I got mine 5 minutes before a SCG Modern Classic and my first match was against WR Prison. Needless to say, I've been sold on him ever since.
Gaea's Revenge is a little different--though he's actually proven to be quite useful. However, I didn't mainboard him because of a pseudo catch-all status like primus. As of right now he's in my Worldspine Wurm/Emrakul/Scapeshift slot and while he doesn't win the game like breaching emmy or wurm, seeing him in your opener or drawing into him sans a breach feels a lot better. That, and the only thing he can be targeted by in modern is Maelstrom Pulse and beast within. Putting him in the main also takes him out of the board, which he has been in and out of a million times over the past 8 months. I figured I'd try it and it's been working out so far. Thrun, the Last Troll could also be in this spot.
I love Pulse of Murasa. I know how strong it is having 2 Baloths in the main, but having a pulse to stall a turn and get back Steve or a land, on the off chance you brick on a drop or in case one has been hit with a ghost quarter has helped. It's also great to have game one against burn when they EOT crack a fetch land and you pulse in response, leaving them manaless for a skullcrack.
I might try to make room in the board for engineered explosives or for another anger of the gods in the main. But I'm not quite sure if I'm sold on EE yet.
I went 4-0 last night and went:
2-0 against BW Eldrazi Midrange: Pretty easy match here. Think E&T without Thalia, Flickerwisp and Ariber
2-1 against Jeskai Control: Revenge and Crumble to dust won me both games 2 and 3. Game one I kept a hand that was great against aggro, not great against control.
2-1 against Merfolk: Breached on turn 3 with a SSG for the win game one. Lost game 2 to a Vendillion Clique with a Sword of War and Peace. Won game 3 thanks to Woodfall Primus
2-0 against Soul Sisters: Bolted souls attendant on turn 1, followed by a breach on turn 3 with a SSG for the win game 1. He played around bolt game 2 and resolved a turn 2 spellskite, I replied with a Chalice on 1 with him holding Martyr, Double sister and Serra Ascendant.
This sums up my report and deck for now. I'll be giving better reports in the future. I just kinda did this as a burr of the moment thing.
EDIT: For some reason my deck list isn't coming up. Anyone help me with that? First time posting, but I seem to have got the rest of tags correct. When i go to edit it, all the cards are listed, but it doesn't show in the post
Just curious: why do you run the 3rd Cinder Glade instead of a green fetch?
I like your idea of a singleton Pulse maindeck over the 4th Farseek, since it seems like discard and Burn is on the rise. Are there noticeable occurrences where you wished it was another Farseek?
Sweet list by the way, I've been wanting to play a MB Woodfall Primus too.
As far as the line of play goes: Burn players MB 4 copies of skullcrack these days and expect the Baloth, so they will always hold up two mana to crack you in response. What they don't expect is instant speed life gain. Burn will consistently End of Turn bolt/helix/crack fetch lands as to not lose any tempo. It has happened to me a number of times where they suspend a rift bolt with two untapped lands, one of which is a fetch land. When they go to crack the fetch at the end of your turn, just cast pulse in response to the search trigger. They only have one untapped land and can't skullcrack you. It's specific but it's come up enough to mention. And apologies if my wording was poor, I rushed my last post.
I can't answer your Scapeshift vs. Revenge question. I want to try scapeshift over him, but I don't own one and can't find one. Can't even find one to borrow. Money is tight these days, so buying it is out of the game plan.
Find space for the Primus. You won't be disappointed.
Just curious: why do you run the 3rd Cinder Glade instead of a green fetch?
I like your idea of a singleton Pulse maindeck over the 4th Farseek, since it seems like discard and Burn is on the rise. Are there noticeable occurrences where you wished it was another Farseek?
I settled on a cinder glade because I liked the idea of searching for a RG source that can come into play untapped off the mires while not having to pay life. But I still like being able to search for my basics when I need to. However 2 glades seemed to be too few, I would attempt to search for one and realize I need to shock myself because my two glades were already out. Or I was holding one. And having that one extra mountain isn't too bad. So far it's been good. But I'd like to try a suite with 4 valakuts at some point.
And to answer your farseek question, my answer is no. I've actually never ran 4 farseeks in any of my variations of the deck. And I almost always board farseek out, if I have stuff to bring in. Or do a split on SSG/Farseek. It's always been the weakest to me. I do love fetching my duals on it, but I'd rather see my boarded cards over it, given the right matchup. But that's only one person's opinion
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https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/521899#paper
Modern
R/g Breach RG
Living End RBG
Eldrazi Tron C
Angel Chord WBG
Goryo's Vengeance BR
Woodfall Primus has been good. Modern is very diverse, so I didn't want to be caught without an answer to stuff like Blood Moon or Ensnaring Bridge maindeck. I used to run Reclamation Sage in that slot, but the Sage is a dead card if you don't have a target, whereas Primus is a valid threat. So sick with a Breach.
I've tried both 3 and 4 Valakuts, and you can make a valid case for both. I think the risk is worth it after playing more with the deck. Oftentimes, it doesn't matter. You can still sequence two CIPT lands first two turns and still Anger on turn 3, for example. But the times when you naturally draw 2 Valakuts in a slower game? It's devastating. Hardcasting a Titan with 4 mountains and 2 Valakuts is almost as good as the combo.
3 is good if you're splashing or want an extra fetch as additional green source. The latter was my best argument for running 3.
I suppose my question is why is there the sudden switch to everyone running chalice/ssg when before it seemed like there were serious differences in everyone's flex spots (Nahiri/PnK/Scapeshift/Oracle)?
What other plays am I not seeing with the chalice? It seems bad against BGx, Tron, and Affinity which makes up a huge percentage of the field right now.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=111651
Simian Spirit Guide on the other hand is too good in this deck to not run 2/3 copies of.
I think the reason you see chalice being played so much is that card just shuts down so much out of so many decks, and if we're already running SSG, it doesn't take much to slot them in.
Chalice provides disruption that normally isn't available in red and green's color pie. It can also play defense against discard and random hate like Surgical Extraction. Almost every other deck run at least some 1cc spells, so unless it's against a Valakut mirror, Chalice won't be completely dead.
The other options instead of Chalice can be substandard. There's Lightning Bolt, which is weak against some percentage of the metagame, just like Chalice, but Bolt has a lower ceiling in the good matchups. And there's Oath of Nissa to make the deck somewhat more consistent, but I'm not sure it moves the needle very much.
-Rg valakut
-U/W control
-U/R storm
-G/W value town
Legacy :
-Storm
The point being, I was really feeling the downside of this deck being a 2 card combo, and wanted to make sure that I was sideboarding correctly by taking out the breaches g2/3 and putting baloths in?
I still like to keep some TTBs against discard, since it will mostly affect your ramp and slamming a PrimeTime on Turn 6 may be too late if he has a board presence. Obstinate Baloth is anyway a reasonable call, more for the body than for the discard protection (duress and IoK naturally miss him, Seize is safe on the first few turns. This changes if you saw a Lily or Kommand, though). I'd like to see your list before saying how you should SB, but general guidelines would be, in order: Emrakul (or any other Breach fatty) > 1 Simian (only if not playing Chalice) > 1 TTB > Anger > 1 Pact (only if you run the set, I wouldn't advise running less than 3). Since he plays main deck duress is reasonable to say you won't get more than one ramp spell early game, so it's a good idea to maximize your sequencing.
FYI my decklist:
2 Forest
6 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
2 Cinder Glade
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Windswept Heath
Creature (13)
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Primeval Titan
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Obstinate Baloth
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Through the Breach
4 Lightning Bolt
Sorcery (10)
4 Search for Tomorrow
3 Farseek
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Scapeshift
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Sudden Shock
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Nature's Claim
2 Obstinate Baloth
I'm fairly new to the deck (was on Titanshift for a while) so I'm unfamiliar with the sideboarding strategies. Based on the input I'm getting so far from you guys, it appears that cutting some numbers of TTB and SSG and leaving 1 or 2 copies is preferred against discard?
Also, fracturing gust is there because of my meta - I see lantern control and bogles and it's been proving very, very good. There's very little burn where I am that's why I avoid Chalice totally.
Any suggestions to improve the deck? Thinking of going up to 2 scapeshifts as a secondary wincon but not sure where to cut. I get hit by surgical extractions and crumble to dusts fairly often so I need a secondary wincon. Been considering worldspine wurm over scapeshift as well (since unlike Emrakul I can fetch it with pact).
Thanks.
Yes, Simian Spirit Guide is bad against discard and control, and you don't have Chalice for free wins either. Don't be afraid to go down to 0, 1, or 2 copies for more relevant spells. I would recommend playing the 4th Farseek over the 4th SSG.
I think siding out 1 Breach is fine against discard, but would keep the 3rd in if possible. Discard will impact the number of lands you have in play to hardcast Titan, so Breach ends up functioning as a 1 mana cheat in addition to the normal combo. As long as you aren't flooding on multiple copies, Breach is still really good against discard.
Obviously, Breach is your strongest card against counters, so take out all copies of SSG before any Breaches if against control.
I don't see how playing 1 Gust will make a difference against Lantern. Why would they let you topdeck it or allow it to stay in your hand? If you need to hit multiple artifacts, why not more copies of Ancient Grudge?
Bogles is such an easy matchup if you go up to 4 Anger of the Gods.
Why not play Woodfall Primus? He's maindeckable because you can Pact for him; he will allow you to interact with artifacts, enchantments, and lands game 1; and still acts as an alternate win condition. You can also rebuy him by siding in Pulse of Murasa.
Pulse is another very flexible card. Against burn, you can side out a couple of Farseek so you can still ramp with fetches while gaining life. It's decent against discard, counters, and multiplies the number of answers like Primus and Reclamation Sage.
An alternate win condition fatty is better than the 2nd Scapeshift. The 2nd Scapeshift won't help you against Extraction or Crumble.
I haven't tried out Worldspine Wurm, but only because Primus does everything that I want.
Thanks, that's very insightful.
I'll try cutting 1 SSG for 1 more Farseek and see how that goes. Maybe my opinion of Gust is biased because I did manage to hit 6 Lantern pieces with it the other day, and 2 Leylines in another game. May consider putting a Grudge in its place after more testing - triple G can be a bit onerous.
I do have Pulses to try out in the SB, and have been considering a maindeck Primus. Seems that Primus has been working out well for you - I'm just wondering whether I cut the maindeck Baloth or ramp for it?
I would cut Baloth instead of any ramp. If you absolutely need Baloth, move the Scapeshift to the sideboard instead.
Another way to answer my abundance of questions (apologies) would be to explain your preference between two sample lists I've created.
Classic/SSG vs. Chandra/Courser Midrange
- In my testing Chandra can be good without courser, however as you say it does slow down the deck and makes it less explosive. I say this in the sense of having 4-6 slots for these cards.
- Simian Spirit Guide has the advantage of getting to play chalice more consistently in the deck. It also alows again for the more explosive starts. This is what the breach versions tend to compromise; more fragile, explosive starts vs consistency.
- You say that only 4 fetches would be fine, however as much as cinder glade has it's advantages, the problem is that when you account for valakut, you are now talking about 7 of 25 lands which will most likely come in tapped.
With the ramp versions you are running more basics, so the problem is less apparent. Since breach is trying to combo as efficiently and quickly as possible, you need the fetches to insure you can hit whatever land you need when you need it. Breach lists only run 2 forests. That is all they can afford. This being said, stomping ground becomes the most efficient land we can run. As much as you don't want to play stomping grounds, sometime getting that SFT turn 1 is super critical and there really is no option.
- In my opinion the number of bolt you run completely depends on what flex cards you are running. The problem is that outside you core of cards, there are a plethora of ways you can shape the main. The direct damage is nice.
Though if the deck is built to handle other issues, then bolt ends up as an afterthought. I recently played at regionals and ran 0 bolts. The reason is that I subbed Chalice of the Void into the main. This is only one
example of how the number of bolts can vary.
- Pulse IS a great card. I have experimented with it and it does have it's purposes. It works particularly well against B/G/x decks, where they rely on discard to disrupt our game plan. Against burn it can be a double edged
sword. However that match up is iffy to begin with, and unfortunately it comes down to who top decks better. Baloth is in my opinion the best answer to gaining life where the match ups matter.
- As for explore vs. farseek, I don't think it will ever be solved. I will say that farseek guarantees you the land. Explore is better when you are guaranteed to play a second land. I was trying 3 farseek/1 explore for a few
months and I had no problems with the configuration. I feel like it really comes down to personal preference and what "feels" correct.
To simply answer your question, (since I have literally be responding to this from the top down)
The difference between courser lists versus SSG is that courser lists are a little slower and feel more like a midrange deck. SSG lists a a little more all-in or combo centric. I can go into more detail, but hopefully anything I said was helpful.
R/G Breach RG
Scapeshift URG
Legacy
Painter UBRW
Commander
Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
Queen Marchesa WBR
Muzzio, Visionary Architect U
R/G Breach RG
Scapeshift URG
Legacy
Painter UBRW
Commander
Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
Queen Marchesa WBR
Muzzio, Visionary Architect U
I think I will need to acquire Chalice's for the SSG version.
The build that I'm on at the moment has proven itself for about a month straight at local weekly tournaments, playing about 2-3 times a week: Monday, Friday and Saturday--my local card shop hits 30-50 people for every event all week and has a super diverse and competitive meta-game. It's quite refreshing. I almost always go 3-0-1/4-0-1 with an ID in the final round or 3-1/4-1.
I'd like to share my list, discuss cards, and also post tournament reports. I do wish I owned a singleton scapeshift for my build, but it's eluded me for some time.
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Stomping Ground
3 Cinder Glade
3 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
6 Mountain
2 Forest
Creature
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Gaea's Revenge
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Pulse of Murasa
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Through the Breach
Sorcery
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Farseek
4 Search for Tomorrow
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Pulse of Murasa
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sudden Shock
Moving Woodfall Primus in the main is probably one of the best decisions I've ever made. I don't regret it in the slightest. I got mine 5 minutes before a SCG Modern Classic and my first match was against WR Prison. Needless to say, I've been sold on him ever since.
Gaea's Revenge is a little different--though he's actually proven to be quite useful. However, I didn't mainboard him because of a pseudo catch-all status like primus. As of right now he's in my Worldspine Wurm/Emrakul/Scapeshift slot and while he doesn't win the game like breaching emmy or wurm, seeing him in your opener or drawing into him sans a breach feels a lot better. That, and the only thing he can be targeted by in modern is Maelstrom Pulse and beast within. Putting him in the main also takes him out of the board, which he has been in and out of a million times over the past 8 months. I figured I'd try it and it's been working out so far. Thrun, the Last Troll could also be in this spot.
I love Pulse of Murasa. I know how strong it is having 2 Baloths in the main, but having a pulse to stall a turn and get back Steve or a land, on the off chance you brick on a drop or in case one has been hit with a ghost quarter has helped. It's also great to have game one against burn when they EOT crack a fetch land and you pulse in response, leaving them manaless for a skullcrack.
I might try to make room in the board for engineered explosives or for another anger of the gods in the main. But I'm not quite sure if I'm sold on EE yet.
I went 4-0 last night and went:
2-0 against BW Eldrazi Midrange: Pretty easy match here. Think E&T without Thalia, Flickerwisp and Ariber
2-1 against Jeskai Control: Revenge and Crumble to dust won me both games 2 and 3. Game one I kept a hand that was great against aggro, not great against control.
2-1 against Merfolk: Breached on turn 3 with a SSG for the win game one. Lost game 2 to a Vendillion Clique with a Sword of War and Peace. Won game 3 thanks to Woodfall Primus
2-0 against Soul Sisters: Bolted souls attendant on turn 1, followed by a breach on turn 3 with a SSG for the win game 1. He played around bolt game 2 and resolved a turn 2 spellskite, I replied with a Chalice on 1 with him holding Martyr, Double sister and Serra Ascendant.
This sums up my report and deck for now. I'll be giving better reports in the future. I just kinda did this as a burr of the moment thing.
EDIT: For some reason my deck list isn't coming up. Anyone help me with that? First time posting, but I seem to have got the rest of tags correct. When i go to edit it, all the cards are listed, but it doesn't show in the post
EDIT 2: Got it!
Thanks for posting!
Just curious: why do you run the 3rd Cinder Glade instead of a green fetch?
I like your idea of a singleton Pulse maindeck over the 4th Farseek, since it seems like discard and Burn is on the rise. Are there noticeable occurrences where you wished it was another Farseek?
Could I understand how this line of play works? A bit confused here.
For your flex slot of Gaea's Revenge, would you rather play a Scapeshift?
Sweet list by the way, I've been wanting to play a MB Woodfall Primus too.
As far as the line of play goes: Burn players MB 4 copies of skullcrack these days and expect the Baloth, so they will always hold up two mana to crack you in response. What they don't expect is instant speed life gain. Burn will consistently End of Turn bolt/helix/crack fetch lands as to not lose any tempo. It has happened to me a number of times where they suspend a rift bolt with two untapped lands, one of which is a fetch land. When they go to crack the fetch at the end of your turn, just cast pulse in response to the search trigger. They only have one untapped land and can't skullcrack you. It's specific but it's come up enough to mention. And apologies if my wording was poor, I rushed my last post.
I can't answer your Scapeshift vs. Revenge question. I want to try scapeshift over him, but I don't own one and can't find one. Can't even find one to borrow. Money is tight these days, so buying it is out of the game plan.
Find space for the Primus. You won't be disappointed.
I settled on a cinder glade because I liked the idea of searching for a RG source that can come into play untapped off the mires while not having to pay life. But I still like being able to search for my basics when I need to. However 2 glades seemed to be too few, I would attempt to search for one and realize I need to shock myself because my two glades were already out. Or I was holding one. And having that one extra mountain isn't too bad. So far it's been good. But I'd like to try a suite with 4 valakuts at some point.
And to answer your farseek question, my answer is no. I've actually never ran 4 farseeks in any of my variations of the deck. And I almost always board farseek out, if I have stuff to bring in. Or do a split on SSG/Farseek. It's always been the weakest to me. I do love fetching my duals on it, but I'd rather see my boarded cards over it, given the right matchup. But that's only one person's opinion