I wish people would mention MTGS more often. So many decks are brewed and devoloped on this site, but we rarely ever get the credit for all the work we put in.
Oh well... That's a great post though. Some really good info provided by Frenchy there.
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
Has Baral, Chief of Compliance helped this deck a lot? What I saw this card I knew that this card will make Storm players get a big rush a emotions. Has it been testing good?
At the very least, Baral replaces Goblin Electromancer. Losing Probe made Pyromancer Ascension worse, so cutting it for Baral makes sense.
With Baral + Electromancer you're weaker to removal, but your turn 3 kill rate is higher. You outspeed the non-interactive decks by slamming Mancer on turn 2, knowing it won't die because your opponent has no removal, and killing on turn 3, sort of like Infect.
At this point I would say that Baral + Mancer is the new core engine of the deck. Gifts is good as the payoff spell for getting to 6 mana, but I wonder if something else would work instead. I considered Epic Experiment but swiftly dismissed it because this deck has at least 23 blanks main. I tried a build similar to the old PA version, just swapping PA for Baral and Probe for Thought Scour/Peer Through Depths, but didn't like the consistency.
Obviously the new lists are a bit different, but i'm pretty sure I was the first person to come up with this concept.
Well, I've played the deck before as far back as 2013 and there's a primer for it on the site in 2014. Hate to burst your bubble, but people knew about it.
I'm not talking about Ritual Gifts. Or UR Storm. Or the All-in Gifts Storm lists that were played in the very beginning of Modern, without any mana reducer or Ascension.
I'm specifically talking about the concept of using Mana Reducers with Gifts to power out Ritual loops with weaker rituals. Replace Ascension, with Baral, in that list and it's nearly identical to whats becoming popular now.
Prove to me, there's a list anywhere like that before mine. I've done extensive Google searches and can't find anything like it. I've also been apart of the storm community on MTGS since I signed up to the site in 2013, and have been following all the threads, and haven't seen anything like it.
And it does mean a lot to me, because I've tried to get people into this concept for years, and every one told me over and over and over its a trash idea, and a waste of time. That Storm is "solved" and there's only 1 way to play the deck. 3 years later and everyone is playing it. So I guess it wasn't such a trash idea after all. I understand that it became better with meta shifts, and new printings, but the core concept is still the same.
Again, i'm not trying to be cocky, or brag, or anything like that. But when you work on something for years and everyone dismisses it, and then it becomes the go to concept that everyone is playing & working on, it does feel gratifying to see your ideas finally come to fruition.
I'm not trying to offend anyone. So i'm sorry if it comes off like that. I love all you guys, and hope we can Make Storm Great Again.
Well, considering the original Gifts Storm lists were pre-mana reducer, you can't really go from "they didn't play this exact variation" to "I created the archetype". One or two cards doesn't change the idea of the deck significantly, which is simply playing Gifts Ungiven in Storm because of how powerful Gifts Ungiven is. I've seen that deck show up pre-RTR. On top of that, lots of things change that support playing different versions of decks. People kept dismissing this version of the deck because given context, it wasn't the best version and it wasn't good in the meta. Having the ability to make Gifts a 2 mana spell is rather significant for making this version playable, not to mention no Gitaxian Probe making this more value-oriented version rise in value compared to the traditional version.
Also, just because something is good now, does not mean you were right all along. If everything had stayed the same, then sure, you may have a point. The format has changed so many times since the deck first surfaced (as far as I can tell, back in 2012) that it's difficult to compare the format now and then.
No one even believed me that Gifts Ungiven was good AT ALL. I was openly mocked for playing Gifts in UR Storm on a regular basis.
My version has ALWAYS been good, it's just that no one gave it a chance. If you click on the links I provided and read the replies from other users, I was categorically being attacked, and dismissed for my ideas.
Again, prove to me there was anything like my list before mine.
Once Song was banned, Ritual Gifts, and All-In Gifts either dramatically changed, or became completely non-existent. Making Gifts 2 mana has nothing to do with anything, and my original list had already dropped Probes 2 and a half years before it was even banned. The original UR Storm lists, that go off in a similar manner to High Tide, and reliance on Ascension, make Probes extremely good. The efficiency and guaranteed win of the Gifts loops, mean you never really needed the Probes in this list.
I'm pretty confident I was the first person to champion the idea of using mana reducers with the left over weaker rituals to power Gifts loops. If you can prove me wrong, then do it, and i'll happily retract my statements.
I also swapped Ascension with Curious Homunculus with the printing of Homunculus, further cementing the concept of Mana reducers to power up weaker Rituals into Gifts loops. Which obviously eventually gets swapped for Baral, which leads us to where we are today.
It's not just that I believe I came up with the concept, it's that no one believed the concept even worked.
For ****s sake. This doesn't matter. This is a thread about UR storm (which can include gifts variants) not about who played the damn deck first. If you all want to argue about it then do it somewhere else.
After years of the community dismissing and attacking me. It matters a lot to me. I have a lot of pride in the work i've done with this deck, and it's been my baby for years despite people telling me it wasn't any good. There's a strong sense of satisfaction in seeing your ideas, that we're widely dismissed, finally coming to fruition, and people finally seeing the power in the concept.
But ill leave it at that.
Sorry for disrupting deck development. I just had to get that off my chest.
Well, first off. While who created the deck isnt spam, because it still has to do with the deck... It diffidently derails the thread. But since everyones so stuck on it:
I used to hold modern cockatrice tournaments on this sub because back then modern wasnt all that popular. I remember in 2012, a user named "poopingmypants" ran a gifts version of storm. Looking back on it, heres a link:
Using my mod like powers, as far as I can tell this is the EARLIEST the words "gifts" and "storm" were said in the same post together. A guy named James Zornes was the first to use that tech. Feb, 2012 Grand Prix Detroit, top 16.
Here we go, even further back. Blippy was the first guy to really keep track of meta stuff in modern, back when it was the wild wild west. heres one of his articles: http://www.mtgoacademy.com/overdriven-54/
Storm, 2013, gifts, electromancer, pre seething song ban, 4-0ing a modern daily.
Credit where credits due, Lord Hazanko has been vouching for gifts version for a very long time. I think searching back on it, since he started his account in mtgsalvation, thats 5/12/13 But looking at dates, the MTGO 4-0 finish was 2/4/13, 4 months prior to that, Lectrys called the synergy 10 months prior, and the first gifts storm list that won a bigger event was a year prior.
While it might not seem like it, I am an OLLLLLLDDDDD mod here, and I have seen the birth of modern, and remember when cute tech turned into real, and when real tech was either banned, or got worse.
I think that settles it. Now, please move back on to the deck and not each other.
Me and SPC actually communicated and tested together a ton! Because no one else would listen to us! Great post though Lantern. That's exactly the type of actual data I needed to see. Some of what you showed is more of the all-in gifts list, but some of them are in fact Mancer Gifts lists!!
Doing some solid testing without Revival after seeing so many lists top without it. The idea of replacing it with Warrens, so if for some reason you can't outright kill, you can still get an army of Goblins, is a pretty dang good idea actually.
In more controlling versions Revival can be an amazing tool, but i'm warming up to the idea of completely removing it from the straight UR list.
Spell Pierce is a card that's either AMAZING, or terrible, with really no in between, so i'm pretty torn on it. I need a lot more testing to make a solid decision there though.
Scroll is very good in this deck, and being able to search for Gifts, Counterspells, Echoing Truth is super powerful.
I was trying a 1 of Peer just to get a feeling for it again, and it definitely is a great card here. It's just a matter of finding the right numbers.
The sideboard is literally constantly changing with pretty much every series of testing I try. A lot fo that is Meta dependent. Im seeing so much variety in the sideboards of the lists that are topping, it's very hard to tell what the best options are. I see people running Unburial Rights in the board, but that seems to clash somewhat with our gameplan, as most likely the opponent will side in grave hate, so siding into another grave combo seems kind of redundant. I do like the idea of t3 locking burn out of the game though, as that is still one of our worst match ups. Does anyone have more experience with Rights?
Finkel was running Mentor in his board, and I have to attest, after significant testing with the URw Ritual Gifts list me and Kathal has been developing, Mentor is very good in this deck, and can pretty easily take over games single handidly. The entire deck has tremendous synergy with him, and provides another way to combo out for the win.
What do you guys think of Madcap Experiment in the board?
Do not forget the Unburial Rites package, which could also be another SB tech.
The problem I see with Mentor in this specific shell is, that you cannot protect him as much as in the Ritual Gifts version, or rather, you cannot play the tempo game, which is the real reason, why he is so good. However, in general, I would go with Mentor over other possible SB creatures, due to the nature of the deck. Both V-Clique as Geist have some crucial flaws, which you can hardly fix in that shell.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I personally am not a huge fan of the rites or the madcap package, but I haven't done a bunch of testing with madcap. I have been putting in a bunch of reps with the 4 merchant scroll decklist, and I really like it. I like peer, but the more I play with scroll the more I like it. It is like playing with 8 gifts with 8 electromancers, and access to a lot of the sideboard with a tutor that they can't decide about is really nice too.
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UBR ANT UBR TES UBR TNT GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
If you had told me that banning Probe would reinvigorate this deck I would have laughed, but that's actually what happened. Although you also have 4 more Electromancers to thank for that.
Hellow fellow stormers (or whatever you call yourselves )!
I've just gotten into modern recently and have my eye on building this deck: looks really sweet!
Just two quick questions: I love the card Thing in the Ice and am wondering if it has any place in the deck/sideboard. Also, when do you board in/out empty the wardens? Thanks
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Standard: UR Midrange
Modern: UR Gifts
Commander: Sigarda, Heron's Grace
Legacy: D&T
Well, first off. While who created the deck isnt spam, because it still has to do with the deck... It diffidently derails the thread. But since everyones so stuck on it:
I used to hold modern cockatrice tournaments on this sub because back then modern wasnt all that popular. I remember in 2012, a user named "poopingmypants" ran a gifts version of storm. Looking back on it, heres a link:
Using my mod like powers, as far as I can tell this is the EARLIEST the words "gifts" and "storm" were said in the same post together. A guy named James Zornes was the first to use that tech. Feb, 2012 Grand Prix Detroit, top 16.
Here we go, even further back. Blippy was the first guy to really keep track of meta stuff in modern, back when it was the wild wild west. heres one of his articles: http://www.mtgoacademy.com/overdriven-54/
Storm, 2013, gifts, electromancer, pre seething song ban, 4-0ing a modern daily.
Credit where credits due, Lord Hazanko has been vouching for gifts version for a very long time. I think searching back on it, since he started his account in mtgsalvation, thats 5/12/13 But looking at dates, the MTGO 4-0 finish was 2/4/13, 4 months prior to that, Lectrys called the synergy 10 months prior, and the first gifts storm list that won a bigger event was a year prior.
While it might not seem like it, I am an OLLLLLLDDDDD mod here, and I have seen the birth of modern, and remember when cute tech turned into real, and when real tech was either banned, or got worse.
I think that settles it. Now, please move back on to the deck and not each other.
😬
I believe I won exactly one round with the deck. We had access to Seething Song back then and the cost reducers weren't yet printed.
I would love to have Seething Song back.
Thanks Lantern!
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
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https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/5qv1yk/mrfrenchys_gifts_storm_guide/?sort=new
I wish people would mention MTGS more often. So many decks are brewed and devoloped on this site, but we rarely ever get the credit for all the work we put in.
Oh well... That's a great post though. Some really good info provided by Frenchy there.
With Baral + Electromancer you're weaker to removal, but your turn 3 kill rate is higher. You outspeed the non-interactive decks by slamming Mancer on turn 2, knowing it won't die because your opponent has no removal, and killing on turn 3, sort of like Infect.
At this point I would say that Baral + Mancer is the new core engine of the deck. Gifts is good as the payoff spell for getting to 6 mana, but I wonder if something else would work instead. I considered Epic Experiment but swiftly dismissed it because this deck has at least 23 blanks main. I tried a build similar to the old PA version, just swapping PA for Baral and Probe for Thought Scour/Peer Through Depths, but didn't like the consistency.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Otherwise, the reddit post is good, but misses some parts, I would have liked to see implemented.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I'm specifically talking about the concept of using Mana Reducers with Gifts to power out Ritual loops with weaker rituals. Replace Ascension, with Baral, in that list and it's nearly identical to whats becoming popular now.
Prove to me, there's a list anywhere like that before mine. I've done extensive Google searches and can't find anything like it. I've also been apart of the storm community on MTGS since I signed up to the site in 2013, and have been following all the threads, and haven't seen anything like it.
*Edit*
After doing even more forum, and google searching I realized I posted my original list even earlier than I had thought
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/modern-archives/modern-archives-proven/511602-ur-storm-5-2013-7-2014?page=40#c800
And had been arguing with people over the Power of Gifts in UR Storm for about a year before that even. The people in the Ritual Gifts thread dismissed my ideas, AND the UR Storm threads dismissed my ideas.
And it does mean a lot to me, because I've tried to get people into this concept for years, and every one told me over and over and over its a trash idea, and a waste of time. That Storm is "solved" and there's only 1 way to play the deck. 3 years later and everyone is playing it. So I guess it wasn't such a trash idea after all. I understand that it became better with meta shifts, and new printings, but the core concept is still the same.
Again, i'm not trying to be cocky, or brag, or anything like that. But when you work on something for years and everyone dismisses it, and then it becomes the go to concept that everyone is playing & working on, it does feel gratifying to see your ideas finally come to fruition.
I'm not trying to offend anyone. So i'm sorry if it comes off like that. I love all you guys, and hope we can Make Storm Great Again.
Also, just because something is good now, does not mean you were right all along. If everything had stayed the same, then sure, you may have a point. The format has changed so many times since the deck first surfaced (as far as I can tell, back in 2012) that it's difficult to compare the format now and then.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
My version has ALWAYS been good, it's just that no one gave it a chance. If you click on the links I provided and read the replies from other users, I was categorically being attacked, and dismissed for my ideas.
Again, prove to me there was anything like my list before mine.
Once Song was banned, Ritual Gifts, and All-In Gifts either dramatically changed, or became completely non-existent. Making Gifts 2 mana has nothing to do with anything, and my original list had already dropped Probes 2 and a half years before it was even banned. The original UR Storm lists, that go off in a similar manner to High Tide, and reliance on Ascension, make Probes extremely good. The efficiency and guaranteed win of the Gifts loops, mean you never really needed the Probes in this list.
I'm pretty confident I was the first person to champion the idea of using mana reducers with the left over weaker rituals to power Gifts loops. If you can prove me wrong, then do it, and i'll happily retract my statements.
I also swapped Ascension with Curious Homunculus with the printing of Homunculus, further cementing the concept of Mana reducers to power up weaker Rituals into Gifts loops. Which obviously eventually gets swapped for Baral, which leads us to where we are today.
It's not just that I believe I came up with the concept, it's that no one believed the concept even worked.
But ill leave it at that.
Sorry for disrupting deck development. I just had to get that off my chest.
I used to hold modern cockatrice tournaments on this sub because back then modern wasnt all that popular. I remember in 2012, a user named "poopingmypants" ran a gifts version of storm. Looking back on it, heres a link:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/modern-archives/224318-variant-gifts-storm?comment=4
Using my mod like powers, as far as I can tell this is the EARLIEST the words "gifts" and "storm" were said in the same post together. A guy named James Zornes was the first to use that tech. Feb, 2012 Grand Prix Detroit, top 16.
(Flash forward to 2016, he used an updated version of the deck to top 8 the same gp location in 2016: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/384596#online.)
In 2012, February, he couldn't use a mana reducer because Goblin Electromancer wasnt printed until October. The first post I can find on this forum that also uses a "mana reducer" with gifts in storm is by a user named SPC, who won with a storm gifts mana reducer list in my cocktrice tournaments one month. http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/modern-archives/modern-archives-proven/511602-ur-storm-5-2013-7-2014?comment=25
Lastly I found this: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/modern-archives/224335-goblin-electromancer?comment=2 Good ol' Lectrys who loves trying out "weird cute stuff" called it first, right when the card was spoiled. August, 2012.
Here we go, even further back. Blippy was the first guy to really keep track of meta stuff in modern, back when it was the wild wild west. heres one of his articles: http://www.mtgoacademy.com/overdriven-54/
Storm, 2013, gifts, electromancer, pre seething song ban, 4-0ing a modern daily.
Credit where credits due, Lord Hazanko has been vouching for gifts version for a very long time. I think searching back on it, since he started his account in mtgsalvation, thats 5/12/13 But looking at dates, the MTGO 4-0 finish was 2/4/13, 4 months prior to that, Lectrys called the synergy 10 months prior, and the first gifts storm list that won a bigger event was a year prior.
While it might not seem like it, I am an OLLLLLLDDDDD mod here, and I have seen the birth of modern, and remember when cute tech turned into real, and when real tech was either banned, or got worse.
I think that settles it. Now, please move back on to the deck and not each other.
Anyway here's my latest list:
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Peer Through Depths
3 Remand
2 Spell Pierce
1 Negate
1 Echoing Truth
3 Desperate Ritual
3 Pyretic Ritual
2 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
3 Island
1 Mountain
3 Blood Moon
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Dispel
1 Pact of Negation
1 Echoing Truth
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Empty the Warrens
Doing some solid testing without Revival after seeing so many lists top without it. The idea of replacing it with Warrens, so if for some reason you can't outright kill, you can still get an army of Goblins, is a pretty dang good idea actually.
In more controlling versions Revival can be an amazing tool, but i'm warming up to the idea of completely removing it from the straight UR list.
Spell Pierce is a card that's either AMAZING, or terrible, with really no in between, so i'm pretty torn on it. I need a lot more testing to make a solid decision there though.
Scroll is very good in this deck, and being able to search for Gifts, Counterspells, Echoing Truth is super powerful.
I was trying a 1 of Peer just to get a feeling for it again, and it definitely is a great card here. It's just a matter of finding the right numbers.
The sideboard is literally constantly changing with pretty much every series of testing I try. A lot fo that is Meta dependent. Im seeing so much variety in the sideboards of the lists that are topping, it's very hard to tell what the best options are. I see people running Unburial Rights in the board, but that seems to clash somewhat with our gameplan, as most likely the opponent will side in grave hate, so siding into another grave combo seems kind of redundant. I do like the idea of t3 locking burn out of the game though, as that is still one of our worst match ups. Does anyone have more experience with Rights?
Finkel was running Mentor in his board, and I have to attest, after significant testing with the URw Ritual Gifts list me and Kathal has been developing, Mentor is very good in this deck, and can pretty easily take over games single handidly. The entire deck has tremendous synergy with him, and provides another way to combo out for the win.
What do you guys think of Madcap Experiment in the board?
The problem I see with Mentor in this specific shell is, that you cannot protect him as much as in the Ritual Gifts version, or rather, you cannot play the tempo game, which is the real reason, why he is so good. However, in general, I would go with Mentor over other possible SB creatures, due to the nature of the deck. Both V-Clique as Geist have some crucial flaws, which you can hardly fix in that shell.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
If you had told me that banning Probe would reinvigorate this deck I would have laughed, but that's actually what happened. Although you also have 4 more Electromancers to thank for that.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
UBR TES
UBR TNT
GB Dredge
(does it have led? then I probably have played it.)
UBWR Ad nauseam
GW Hatebears
UR Storm
URB Grixis Delver
W Death and Taxes
Basically anything with Scalding Tarn
Good job, izzetmage! Update is grate, I hope a lot of rookies will join us!
I've just gotten into modern recently and have my eye on building this deck: looks really sweet!
Just two quick questions: I love the card Thing in the Ice and am wondering if it has any place in the deck/sideboard. Also, when do you board in/out empty the wardens? Thanks
Modern: UR Gifts
Commander: Sigarda, Heron's Grace
Legacy: D&T
😬
I believe I won exactly one round with the deck. We had access to Seething Song back then and the cost reducers weren't yet printed.
I would love to have Seething Song back.
Thanks Lantern!
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77