Hi guys, I'm new to Infect. I've played a LOT of BGx, Elves, and Delver specifically...and have dabbled in quite a few other decks, of which Infect is one. I've played roughly 15-20 matches with UG and maybe 4-5 with BG. Eldrazi has lit the fire under my seat to truly learn Infect.
In my limited experience so far I've found UG to be rather fragile and BG to be less so at a slightly slower pace. I find both decks to be highly interactive. UG in the more intellectual sense and BG in the more midrangey tangible sense. This actually was a bit of a pleasant surprise to me and part of the reason I want to devote more time to the archetype.
What I was hoping was someone could answer a couple questions for me to help speed up my development. Linking to other articles or discussions would be great as well, though I've red nearly every Tom Ross article on Infect already.
1) What are the historically good/bad matchups for each version? I'm thinking 60/40 or 40/60 "ish" on good/bad, everything else I'll consider about even. I know Eldrazi throws a wrench in the meta, but better understanding what it has been historically will better assist me in interpreting the present and future.
2) What traps do you often see new players falling into? Also any interactions that are easy to miss? EXAMPLE - blocking infect on infect in the mirror causing 1/1s to trade regardless of pumps.
3) NEWB ALERT - Why can't/don't we splash blue into the BG version? A minimal splash for Watery Grave and Blighted Agent seems good if even out of the board...told you I'm new.
4) Your two most important tips?
5) What question didn't I ask that I should have? (Preferably with the answer )
I know I'm asking a lot but some people love answering this stuff. I have read the primer but I often find them outdated which can make things a struggle. Thank you kind folks!
I haven't updated my list since regionals, I'm planing on playing 1 MB and possibly 1 more in the side I just need it for chalice. Serum visions allows you to play a longer grindy resource based game.
2. The only traps that new players typically fall into is not knowing when to hold, and when to go all in. Also finding an exit strategy if they take you off your infect damage plan is pretty challenging.
3. You want lands that tap for green so you can pump, I splash white in U/G infect for geist to help out the B/G/x Match-ups by having 1 Temple Garden main. It doesn't really hurt me because I can still tap for green off it.
4. Learn to sequence your spells properly, and see vines as your most powerful resource.
The CFB build has 2, mana dorks aren't really a problem since both hierarch and birds are twisted image food and both die to one non-pumped block. You def do side out some number of glistener elves, since it's your worst infect dude game 2 though.
I have got my infect built and was looking at random original SB tech and actually thought geist. I saw your list and crapped. mind you i was thinking of running 2. how is that working, what is your best matches you side it in.
I bring Geist of Saint Traft in against GB/x and Grixis it helps those matchups TREMENDOUSLY. At regionals against a hellbent abzan opponent with a 5/6 goyf on board we both had zero cards in hand after he go for the throat'd my Blighted Agent While I had a . I had a land(Wooded Foothills) in play and I drew groundswell for turn and passed; he drew a card swung and passed put me to 10 I drew Geist of Saint Traft played it and passed. He swung I blocked, fetch, groundswelled and proceeded to win from there. At the end of the game he revealed his hand of path, abrupt decay, inquisition to me and sighed. That match alone reinforced my decision to play geist.
2. The only traps that new players typically fall into is not knowing when to hold, and when to go all in. Also finding an exit strategy if they take you off your infect damage plan is pretty challenging.
3. You want lands that tap for green so you can pump, I splash white in U/G infect for geist to help out the B/G/x Match-ups by having 1 Temple Garden main. It doesn't really hurt me because I can still tap for green off it.
4. Learn to sequence your spells properly, and see vines as your most powerful resource.
5. The rest you can learn through experience.
Thanks, I'm assuming the matchups are all for UG specifically? I definitely had the same experiences with UG versus Zoo and Burn specifically and about the same for Jund (except I was always on the Jund side) Thanks!
Regarding Pulse of Murasa
I'm a newbie with relatively few matches under my belt, so take my comment with a grain of salt. It seems very very serviceable, most of this is theoretical. Not only is it lifegain that seems to line up well for around turn 3-4, where versus a deck like burn you either are going for it or trying to setup a second run, but in the longer grindy matchups like BGx it seems like it would really be a good card to have extending the game by a turn and getting you another threat. It seems extra good there w/BG Infect as you may be able to get Phyrexian Crusader that could live through a Night of Souls' Betrayal. I've been packing two, and while it's seemed decent against Burn, it wasn't good enough versus Zoo when I played it.
EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
He basically just says you need to update your deck to adjust, and then gives a list built 100% for speed with 2 Viridian Corrupters in the main to help with Chalice. Then talks about hate cards other decks could use.
Looking at this list here, any thoughts on what the Pithing Needle is for? Was thinking maybe it's useful in Affinity, seems decent in BGx except Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse/Kolaghan's Command all hit it, so I wasn't sure what else it might be for. http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/373196#online
I know Tom Ross is an aggro God, but I believe that Kai's opinion on the deck being good against Eldrazi pre-pro tour is still very relevant. Sure he might not have hit the nail on the head, but we have decent game against eldrazi when we are on a good draw. I think this emphasizes that right now we need to focus on speed above all else.
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
1 Spellskite
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Vines of Vastwood
2 Mutagenic Growth
3 Groundswell
1 Rancor
1 Wild Defiance
2 Might of Old Krosa
2 Apostle's Blessing
2 Serum Visions
2 Slip Through Space
3 Become Immense
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Forest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Pulse of Murasa
2 Twisted Image
4 Nature's Claim
2 Spell Pierce
1 Dispel
1 Wild Defiance
3 Geist of Saint Traft
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
For more on the 2/13 metagame update, please read the post in the metagame thread here:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/566735-modern-metagame-discussion-thread-updated-1-15?comment=1026
In my limited experience so far I've found UG to be rather fragile and BG to be less so at a slightly slower pace. I find both decks to be highly interactive. UG in the more intellectual sense and BG in the more midrangey tangible sense. This actually was a bit of a pleasant surprise to me and part of the reason I want to devote more time to the archetype.
What I was hoping was someone could answer a couple questions for me to help speed up my development. Linking to other articles or discussions would be great as well, though I've red nearly every Tom Ross article on Infect already.
1) What are the historically good/bad matchups for each version? I'm thinking 60/40 or 40/60 "ish" on good/bad, everything else I'll consider about even. I know Eldrazi throws a wrench in the meta, but better understanding what it has been historically will better assist me in interpreting the present and future.
2) What traps do you often see new players falling into? Also any interactions that are easy to miss? EXAMPLE - blocking infect on infect in the mirror causing 1/1s to trade regardless of pumps.
3) NEWB ALERT - Why can't/don't we splash blue into the BG version? A minimal splash for Watery Grave and Blighted Agent seems good if even out of the board...told you I'm new.
4) Your two most important tips?
5) What question didn't I ask that I should have? (Preferably with the answer )
I know I'm asking a lot but some people love answering this stuff. I have read the primer but I often find them outdated which can make things a struggle. Thank you kind folks!
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
1. Match-ups
Good:
80/20 Tron
60/40 Abzan
70/30 Slow combo decks(Footsteps, Scapeshift etc.)
60/40 Naya Company
60/40 Merfolk
Average:
50/50s
Affinity
Blue Control -sans black
Abzan Company
Grixis Delver
Bad:
30/70 Zoo
30/70 Grixis Midrange/Control
40/60 Burn
40/60 Jund
40/60 Temur Delver
Unknown:
Eldrazi
2. The only traps that new players typically fall into is not knowing when to hold, and when to go all in. Also finding an exit strategy if they take you off your infect damage plan is pretty challenging.
3. You want lands that tap for green so you can pump, I splash white in U/G infect for geist to help out the B/G/x Match-ups by having 1 Temple Garden main. It doesn't really hurt me because I can still tap for green off it.
4. Learn to sequence your spells properly, and see vines as your most powerful resource.
5. The rest you can learn through experience.
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
I have got my infect built and was looking at random original SB tech and actually thought geist. I saw your list and crapped. mind you i was thinking of running 2. how is that working, what is your best matches you side it in.
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
duh lol
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
Thanks, I'm assuming the matchups are all for UG specifically? I definitely had the same experiences with UG versus Zoo and Burn specifically and about the same for Jund (except I was always on the Jund side) Thanks!
I'm a newbie with relatively few matches under my belt, so take my comment with a grain of salt. It seems very very serviceable, most of this is theoretical. Not only is it lifegain that seems to line up well for around turn 3-4, where versus a deck like burn you either are going for it or trying to setup a second run, but in the longer grindy matchups like BGx it seems like it would really be a good card to have extending the game by a turn and getting you another threat. It seems extra good there w/BG Infect as you may be able to get Phyrexian Crusader that could live through a Night of Souls' Betrayal. I've been packing two, and while it's seemed decent against Burn, it wasn't good enough versus Zoo when I played it.
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW
I'd like to see this as well...
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
Looking at this list here, any thoughts on what the Pithing Needle is for? Was thinking maybe it's useful in Affinity, seems decent in BGx except Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse/Kolaghan's Command all hit it, so I wasn't sure what else it might be for.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/373196#online
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/the-pantheon-deck-tech-infect-2/
@demo_gosu I'm cutting mine for Viridian Corruptor
Standard
UB UB Midrange UB
Modern
GRWUBTribal Flames ZooGRWUB
RUGTemur DelverRUG
Legacy
UW Stoneblade UW