Hello guys. I have been wanting to play Junk for a long time and I think I'm about to pull the trigger. Question: How is Collective Brutality normally used?
It's a great card that works well because of it's flexibility
It really hoses burn, it can hit small creatures game 1, it discards control cards. It's a solid 2 of in the 75. It's also good if you want extra removal against spell-based combo decks game 2 and 3.
It also synergies well with lingering souls. It's better in Junk than in Jund or Death Shadow.
Sounds like Tilsen himself said to cut it all out, he didn't just stumble into 2nd place at SCG Indy by accident. It seems like Shadow players (the more experienced one's) are beginning to side out discard themselves.
hey everyone! me and my buddy have been testing out a new list lately. he's owned abzan for quite a while, but a few days ago we got inspiration to revamp it into abzan 2.0 (for us, anyway). tell me what you guys think!
a lot of the deck is designed around getting under control's and midrange's nose by out tempo'ing them with hierarch/voice, stabilize quickly against aggro and provide plentiful mainboard answers, maintain a relatively unusually aggressive creature base against decks we need to clock like tron and combo. i've had plenty of good luck with the deck so far online, but i'm still fine-tuning the board. what do you all think?
Just played a whole lot of Abzan at GP side events these last couple of days. The deck felt really strong, and I lost only 2 matches out of 12 (Merfolk and Bant Eldrazi). This is the list I went with:
The meta at these events is usually pretty diverse, but I wanted to kind of hedge against Burn a little bit since it's a notorious mainstay around the city of the GP. A couple of thoughts:
Nobles are great. Literally in any matchup I played they were always useful in some way: mana acceleration, exalted, removal magnet, turning on delirium - it just does it all. It just makes our draws so smooth and is even great against "fringe" stuff like Blood Moon and Ensnaring Bridge. I wouldn't dream of taking them out now unless the meta changes quite a bit.
Flayer is deceptively good. Delirium isn't hard to turn on, especially with artifacts maindeck, and he does so much to improve our chances against combo/ramp matchups. Just think about how good Bob is against Ad Nauseam, Scapeshift or Tron, in helping you find those discards and Lilianas, etc. Flayer also does that, but his filtering is 3 times faster, and he hits like a truck. Goyf Jr has more than earned his spot in the deck, IMO.
50/50 about the Nihil Spellbombs. I didn't face a single graveyard deck in both days, so that aspect was kind of wasted (although I'm sure it would have been useful otherwise). It did however win me a match against Tron, by turning my Flayer and Goyf from a 3-turn-clock (6 damage a turn) to a 2-turn-clock (9 damage a turn), which was nice. I'm leaving them in for now, since I was never unhappy to draw them - I mean, at least it cycles, and you can side it out in matchups where you won't have time to use it.
what's everyone's opinion on horizon canopy? i don't see it played in any lists but honestly i've been trying it out and it's wildly good. it lets me play a slightly more diverse creature base since i can get away with fewer bobs, and it makes the deck's mana base hurt less. it gets worse without hierarch obviously, but that's the build i've been testing.
what's everyone's opinion on horizon canopy? i don't see it played in any lists but honestly i've been trying it out and it's wildly good. it lets me play a slightly more diverse creature base since i can get away with fewer bobs, and it makes the deck's mana base hurt less. it gets worse without hierarch obviously, but that's the build i've been testing.
Better in more aggro builds obviously, mainly because of the colors it produces. I don't really like it without having mana dorks or knight of the reliquary to supplement it. There's too many burn players out there to play it without good reason. Your deck is playing a lot more creatures than most, iirc, so its probably fine in your deck.
On another note: why aren't people playing more Anguished Unmaking over maelstrom pulse in the main? I've found that in most matchups, I'd prefer the exile a single target at instant speed over sorcery speed destroy single target...with the potential for 2. I still like having maelstrom pulse in my 75, but I would think this deck favors anguished unmaking over pulse. Thoughts?
Who in the world is playing 2x Collective brutalities in the maindeck? I've almost never seen that in Jund, Junk or Death Shadow?
I'm not crazy about Kitchen Finks in Junk, I think Jund needs it, I don't think Junk does. Blessed Alliance is relevant against burn, Eldrazi and fair matchups. Collective is also a great sideboard in this deck.
3x collective brutalities in the 75 isn't wrong at all, burn is on the rise, and it works reasonable against Scapeshift decks/combo decks.
Kitchen Finks or Blessed Alliance in the Sideboard?
Also how many copies of collective brutality in the 75?
(Are 3 too much?)
I have 2 Kitchen Finks and 1 BAlliance in the side with only 1 Brutality in the main. I like Finks a lot in those grindy kind of matchups and have always had 2 and never looked back.
Hey guys. I just had a quick question about sideboard tech.
I'm having a hell of time beating Tron. It's very prevalent in my meta. Stony Silece helps but when they drop Karn it's a pretty deep hole to dig my self out of. So my question, is it worth it to run a couple of Anguished Unmaking in the board for that match up? I feel like it's not that linear because there are other decks it might be good against as well.
Hey guys. I just had a quick question about sideboard tech.
I'm having a hell of time beating Tron. It's very prevalent in my meta. Stony Silece helps but when they drop Karn it's a pretty deep hole to dig my self out of. So my question, is it worth it to run a couple of Anguished Unmaking in the board for that match up? I feel like it's not that linear because there are other decks it might be good against as well.
Thanks
Absolutely not. Tron is one of the worst matchups for Abzan, the best things we have is discard, Fulminator Mage, Surgical Extraction and Stony Silence. Combine that with a quick clock and you have the best chances in winning the match. Anguished Unmaking is a really bad card to run, it just fills up precious slots in the SB for more important matchups.
Although anguished unmaking is nice to have against tron because it does in fact get karn or wurmcoil off the table, you really want to be preventing them from casting those things in the first place, post board. That's the real problem. That said, I still think anguished unmaking is actually fine in the board as a catch-all for some of the other less common matchups, which can also definitely come in against tron. It's certainly better than lingering souls...but your dedicated sideboard against tron are stony silence and fulminator mage as already mentioned. So if you need more hate for tron solely, just get more of those in your board. If possible, we want cards that are proactive against tron, not reactive.
Brutality was the beast until Infect tucked it's tail and disappeared and Storm stopped playing creature stilts. Still so good against Burn, Delver, CoCo Abzan, Elves. When mana challenged, love to escalate a lingering souls or targets for flayer into the graveyard. Great card, still 1 mainboard, 2 side, or as meta demands.
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It really hoses burn, it can hit small creatures game 1, it discards control cards. It's a solid 2 of in the 75. It's also good if you want extra removal against spell-based combo decks game 2 and 3.
It also synergies well with lingering souls. It's better in Junk than in Jund or Death Shadow.
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Creature
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Flayer
3 Dark Confidant
2 Siege Rhino
2 Voice of Resurgence
Instant
3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
Land
3 Blooming Marsh
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Shambling Vent
2 Windswept Heath
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Forest
3 Liliana of the Veil
Sorcery
4 Lingering Souls
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Collective Brutality
4 Fulminator Mage
3 Stony Silence
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Golgari Charm
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
a lot of the deck is designed around getting under control's and midrange's nose by out tempo'ing them with hierarch/voice, stabilize quickly against aggro and provide plentiful mainboard answers, maintain a relatively unusually aggressive creature base against decks we need to clock like tron and combo. i've had plenty of good luck with the deck so far online, but i'm still fine-tuning the board. what do you all think?
4x Blooming Marsh
1x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
1x Marsh Flats
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
2x Shambling Vent
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Swamp
1x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
Sorcery (12)
1x Collective Brutality
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
3x Grim Flayer
3x Noble Hierarch
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Siege Rhino
4x Tarmogoyf
Artifact (2)
2x Nihil Spellbomb
Planeswalker (3)
3x Liliana of the Veil
Instant (7)
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Fatal Push
3x Path to Exile
2x Collective Brutality
1x Damnation
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Fulminator Mage
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Stony Silence
2x Surgical Extraction
The meta at these events is usually pretty diverse, but I wanted to kind of hedge against Burn a little bit since it's a notorious mainstay around the city of the GP. A couple of thoughts:
Better in more aggro builds obviously, mainly because of the colors it produces. I don't really like it without having mana dorks or knight of the reliquary to supplement it. There's too many burn players out there to play it without good reason. Your deck is playing a lot more creatures than most, iirc, so its probably fine in your deck.
On another note: why aren't people playing more Anguished Unmaking over maelstrom pulse in the main? I've found that in most matchups, I'd prefer the exile a single target at instant speed over sorcery speed destroy single target...with the potential for 2. I still like having maelstrom pulse in my 75, but I would think this deck favors anguished unmaking over pulse. Thoughts?
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Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
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I think still think pulse is way better
I'm not crazy about Kitchen Finks in Junk, I think Jund needs it, I don't think Junk does. Blessed Alliance is relevant against burn, Eldrazi and fair matchups. Collective is also a great sideboard in this deck.
3x collective brutalities in the 75 isn't wrong at all, burn is on the rise, and it works reasonable against Scapeshift decks/combo decks.
I have 2 Kitchen Finks and 1 BAlliance in the side with only 1 Brutality in the main. I like Finks a lot in those grindy kind of matchups and have always had 2 and never looked back.
I'm having a hell of time beating Tron. It's very prevalent in my meta. Stony Silece helps but when they drop Karn it's a pretty deep hole to dig my self out of. So my question, is it worth it to run a couple of Anguished Unmaking in the board for that match up? I feel like it's not that linear because there are other decks it might be good against as well.
Thanks
Absolutely not. Tron is one of the worst matchups for Abzan, the best things we have is discard, Fulminator Mage, Surgical Extraction and Stony Silence. Combine that with a quick clock and you have the best chances in winning the match. Anguished Unmaking is a really bad card to run, it just fills up precious slots in the SB for more important matchups.
Thanks.
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L1 Judge
Brutality was the beast until Infect tucked it's tail and disappeared and Storm stopped playing creature stilts. Still so good against Burn, Delver, CoCo Abzan, Elves. When mana challenged, love to escalate a lingering souls or targets for flayer into the graveyard. Great card, still 1 mainboard, 2 side, or as meta demands.
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