MTG Salvation

I think that's too many 2 drops now


Abzan is reportedly doing well in both GP's, so I'm excited to see lists, I've been calling it for a few months now.

I think Surgical works best when you run Fulminator for the potential combo. I personally, like you, run rather Spellbombs when I don't run Fulminators and I am also fine with it.

I think surgical is better, it can straight up win the game.

Last week I surgical'd a boogle creature and it hit the one out of his hand, the week before I surgical'd a scapeshift against BTL and it won on the spot.

I wish I hadn't waited to play surgical

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

Abzan is reportedly doing well in both GP's, so I'm excited to see lists, I've been calling it for a few months now.

Where do you got this from?

From coverage I did see more Jund than Abzan at GP Vancouver, thats why I am asking. Of course this doesn't have to say anything, but just wanted to know where to see that Abzan is doing great.

The top 8 list looks good to me, I really like the Bob and Noble Hierach in Abzan, also dropping Rhino seems good to me at least (hating Rhino, which is no secret :P)

A big problem Abzan has in my opinion, is that it actually doesn't know what it wants. There is no focused strategy where most people can agree on. Everyday there are statements made pro and against nobles, pro and against Grim Flayer and so on. I think this hurts the deck quite a bit unfortunately. And still, if you look at different lists of abzan, all of them look different basically. Its just too durdly in my opinion and Abzan could really use a streamlined and focused gameplan.

@aparthia yep, saw that list too. I think I would have tossed the 2 Flayers into the bin and play another Push and probably another Ooze instead of it. Also 4 Blooming Marsh seems better than the singleton Ghost Quarter in my opinion.

Is also a good option, yeah. Maybe get another push and another bob. I think I could work with that list then. Also Damnation is needed, for sure, so yeah!

I think another copy of scooze and push would be really bad, the deck would be seriously durdley. I imagine he wanted the two Flayers for ramp and combo decks.

At least Abzan made top 8 in one of the GP's, so we know the deck is legit

I definitely agree with the above, all the lack of focus and agreement on what the lists should look like is a huge downfall, it needs to have a streamlined plan and decide on what a stock list looks like.

Hey guys. Just got back from Vancouver. Played Abzan, and was my first GP. Abzan was a great choice. I was debating between this and Abzan Company, I heard the vendors sold out of grixis cards the day before, and have liked the matchup with Abzan more. Being a first timer, thoughtseize is a safer card to play with than chord of calling. So much less room to lose to misplaying. I played a very similar list to the Brisbane Top 8 list. 3 Noble, 3 Bob, 2 Flayer, 2 scooze, 4 Goyf, but had 2 Rhino and 3 liliana instead. I had 3 fatal push and no pulse main as well. With lands, I had 4 blooming marsh and no Ghost Quarter, and 3 Shambling Vent 0 Wildwood. My sideboard was much worse. I left my Gideon at home and played Sorin, Solemn Visitor. I also did not play surgical extraction which was a terrible, terrible mistake. It does SO much in this deck, and I will play 2, maybe 3 going forward. I never needed it as Graveyard hate, but wanted it to help the combo match ups, and would have been better hate than spellbomb. I made day 2 with a record of 6-2-1.

2-0 vs grixis delver. Got what I planned for.
2-1 vs affinity. Game 1 got perfect mana, 3 push and 3 souls. Game 2 he had turn 2 blood moon. Game 3 I had turn 2 stony silence and some removal.
2-0 vs elves brew with walking ballista.
2-0 vs BR burn. This was Donald smith from PT AER top 8. Awesome guy, talked for a bit after.
2-0 vs Ad Nauseum. Another great guy to talk to afterwards, never salty and gave me notes to improve my game going forward.
1-1-1 vs Abzan. Mirror match was grind, I sideboarded poorly and it really screwed me to have the draw day 1. I got some crappy unfun matchup because of it, later. The opponent was a good guy and respectful though.
1-2 vs Jund. Another awesome guy and a great player, not sure how he ended up but I know he was x-2 in like round 12 or 13.
2-0 vs Eldrazi Tron. Didnt play chalice main, I overran him and drew he right removal. He also never assembled Tron either game. Felt like a bad version of an insanely powerful deck, with an inexperienced pilot.
1-2 vs Blue taking turns. Never seen this deck. Killed me with a turn lock and snap game 1. I free both decays and had early Flayer game 2. Game 3 I misplayed TERRIBLY and used my fatal push on an irrelivent snapcaster Madge. he untaps, casts awakened Part the waterveil, with me tapped out (from his gigadrowse) for lethal. On his extra turn. Wouldn't have died if I helped up the push and maybe could have played more. Bad end to day 1, but tomorrow is another day and I met my goal of Day 2ing my first GP.
0-2 vs Martyr Proc. Woke up late, rushed there and my opponent was trying to skip my priority and called a judge like 4 times, and I got tilted. Bad form on my part.
2-0 vs Jund. This guy misplayed a lot and had to waste his removal on souls tokens, while I just drew gas. Felt good.
1-2 vs Lantern. This is where not having surgical hurt. A lot. I discarded or destroyed bridge every game and would have loved to cap them from the deck. I would have been so much better off. close games anyway. Game 3 decided not to bring in fulminator mage. Big mistake, again.
0-2 vs Ad Nauseum. Experienced player who took the right lines both games, I should have mulligained to 5 game 2 but didnt.

After round 13 I dropped. I was the last of my group playing, and we had a 7 hour roadtrip to tackle so I figured lets just go. Overall, I learned a ton and am going to work hard on improving my game before GP Vegas. Vancouver was an awesome city, met a lot of cool people, and spent time with good friends, had fun and learned so much. I wish I practiced a lot more and locked in on Abzan much earlier, and will stick with of for a while.
-edit- spelling. Sorry, on mobile.

So, I branched out of Jund to try out Junk for a bit, with the Noble/Flayer "list" (no Bob).

I really like how it plays, and how smooth the curve and manabase feels. The fastland helps, but Noble Hierarch has also been a surprisingly good support card by enabling attacks that wouldn't have been possible without exalted, and the ramping is also more relevant than I thought it would be (turn 2 Liliana, turn 3 Rhino, turn 2 Flayer/Goyf + removal/discard, are all powerful plays).

However, there are a couple of things I'm still not sure about:

1) The 2x artifact in the main deck. It seems like a good deal of lists are including a couple of spellbombs main deck to help with Delirium - indeed, pretty much any list running at least 3 Flayers seems to be running the spellbombs too. What do you guys think? Is it worth it? If so, what do you cut from the main deck to fit them in?

2) Path/Push split. Of course, there isn't a consensus right now - maybe there won't ever be one - but there are a few splits that are more common than others (3/3, 2/2, 3 Path/2 Push). It seems reasonable to think of it as a meta call, but still, in an unknown meta, there is probably an optimal amount of each to run.

Has anyone tried blessed alliance?

Seems really good. Instant speed sacrifice seems great against boggles, reality smasher, or most decks on turn 2, gaining 4 life is good against burn or to make up for life loss due to Bob, and untapping 2 creatures can be great for swinging with souls in the air and then having them block, or a Goyf/Rhino going in for damage and then killing a creature by blocking.

Also, how many lands do the versions with noble hierarch typically play?

Also, I'm thinking of running more fetchlands for Blood Moon, goyf, fatal push, and just having a more reliable manabase. I can still tap the fetchlands for black mana with Urborg or red mana if a blood moon is in play.

They usually play 22.

Seems like Noble lists have become the popular choice as of now. The question runs in how many Bobs/Flayers/Rhinos you want to play, and how many corresponding removal spells to shave for them.

I'm still not entirely sure on the 2x Nihil Spellbombs that everyone is playing MD. Has it really been clutch? And I'm talking about both sides of the coin - as a delirium trigger and an actual hate spell. I recognize that it helps against a large portion of the field, but is also not really that useful against plenty of others (ie any big mana deck). Maybe it'll help Flayer come online faster, maybe it won't, but as a 2-of it's a lot worse than Tarfire is in DSA. Opinions?

How are we beating Eldrazi tron? I haven't had a chance to play against it. What cards are we looking to bring in vs them? Do you think surgical extraction is something i should be boarding in (i have 2 in my board) along with 3 fulminator or is it not worth it? Could also randomly extract threats like smashers. Thoughts?

In my opinion, just pack a couple of damnations into the SB to help against the matchups somewhat. Its not great, but I think one of the best things we have against them. Its tricky because they have stuff like Warping Wail/TKS to counter/discard the Sweepers, for this reason keeping in discard is probably also worthwhile.

Thanks for the tips. I wasn't sure if damnation was what i wanted to be doing. I think stony silence is an obvious board in. Damnation is probably worth it. I'm playing 1 in my board

Finished 3-2 at a $15 tournament, and won $20. Beat Grixis Control 2–1, lost to a Eldrazi Tron 1-2, beat Goblins 2-1, beat Ad Nauseum 2-0, lost to Infect 2-0.

I was running list...

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/571210#paper

I can't decide between that list or my previous list...

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14526&d=287109&f=MO

you want the surgicals in the side, it should win you the game on the spot. recently it's been bailing me out against prison style decks, lantern and enchantress. abrupt decay on a bridge or ghostly prison, followed up by surgical really cripples their gameplan.

Hey guys this is a crosspost from the Jund forums. I went ahead and took the plunge with finishing Jund and Abzan. I picked two lists that were relatively normal that I can also make tweaks to once I get used to it. As for playing them it's definitely not something I'm used to. The closest to interaction that I've come to is playing U/B Teachings in Pauper or dropping a Thought-Knot Seer on someone in Modern. Actually using discard, card advantage and slowing my play down to figure out what the right lines of play are feels strange instead of figuring out the quickest way to go off with Ad Nauseam or count to 20 with Burn. Here's the Abzan list I'm running. Hopefully it's fine posting in both forums since I'd like some advice on both variants.

Abzan:

@Kookzerg: Six four-plus CMC creatures seems excessive. Some number of Thoughtseize is pretty much canon. Six discard spells is widely accepted as best practice.