Forgive me if this has been discussed, but is there any merit to reducing Aether Vial to 3? I know we want it as soon as possible, but I cannot be the only one that hates to top deck later in the game.
Yeah, we smash Podless Pod pretty easily in my experience. Too much disruption (especially via Spreading Seas), too fast a clock. A resolved Kitchen Finks typically blunts a lot of aggro decks, but to Merfolk it's just a minor nuisance.
And thanks for the words of advice, gents. I think I'll try Unified Will in my sideboard over Spellskite and see how that goes.
Yeah, we smash Podless Pod pretty easily in my experience. Too much disruption (especially via Spreading Seas), too fast a clock. A resolved Kitchen Finks typically blunts a lot of aggro decks, but to Merfolk it's just a minor nuisance.
And thanks for the words of advice, gents. I think I'll try Unified Will in my sideboard over Spellskite and see how that goes.
I've been using Unified Will in my mono U build, I like it quite a bit. In so many circumstances it is just counterspell that's easier to cast.
I run 2 of, bring it in against a ton of decks.
Your thoughts on the Company match up is spot on, Rothgar13. Even an early snap/path/whatever removal on a dork can really screw them up, especially if you have a Seas too. Finks is barely a threat like you said, basically we can interrupt their combo in many ways, and beyond that we have so much pressure that the slightest tempo gains feel like they already lost. It is a favorable matchup imo
I have to say though, should any G/W/x deck have Dromoka's Command, suddenly your day got a lot worse lol that's definitely a big hurdle, but it is rarely, if ever, used in Collected Company; Abzan is the real abuser of that card.
I can see how UWWorship Tuna makes Burn, a traditionally even match-up all that more winnable, but how does it fair against our toughest match-ups, like Pod and Affinity?
Hm, for one I find it interesting how you consider Pod ( I assume you mean Podless Pod AKA Anafenza Collected Company) to be a tough match up.. I never really struggle against them, frankly I can count on one hand how many times I've lost, my brother has the deck and I have played against it a ton.
Secondly, the past few pages have had many specific details about the White splash improving our Affinity match up specifically.. If you don't understand the concept right away then you should read through the last few pages.. It is a very straightforward and solid plan against them.
Bearscape, I do agree with Worship getting worse the more popular it gets, although the same can be said for pretty much any card/strategy. I do thank you for holding off so we can sneak in with it though lol
Delverofthemany, I like that build a lot. I would probably run some number of Chalice of the Void in the sb, but that's just me. Please post results asap, I'll be playing tonight as well and will do the same.
I always found Pod tricky. Haven't seen the info. on the Affinity match-up. Will def have a look, thanks for the heads up!
No problem! Basically between Chalice, some number of bounce spells, Path, and the raw power of Stony Silence and Kataki, Affinity shouldn't be too much of an issue. Also, Worship mean they can't win, unless through infect. You have Spreading Seas, and removal in the form of Path/Harbinger/etc to deal with that. Always a tough game against them but with these types of tools and smart play you shouldn't fear them at all and should have a much, much higher chance against them.
I think that you should take the 3 Affinity-hate pieces that are available to WU (Hurkyl's Recall, Kataki, War's Wage, and Stony Silence) and run any 2 of them. I'd go with Kataki and Stony because Kataki can be Vialed in and contributes in combat, but you could make an argument for Hurkyl's and Stony.
Forgive me if this has been discussed, but is there any merit to reducing Aether Vial to 3? I know we want it as soon as possible, but I cannot be the only one that hates to top deck later in the game.
Being only good very early on (even turn 2 is not good though acceptable) but very bad top deck later in the game exactly is the reason to play 4. With playing 4 your chances of drawing her in the opening hand (when do you want to draw it) are much better. The less of them you play the worse your chances of drawing it at the start are but it's more likely to draw it later in the game. In this case it's better to not play it at all. So my answer is to play all 4 of them and then sideboard accordingly. In grindy matchups where you need as high threat density as possible and Vials aren't so good (for example against Jund and Junk) you board them out and play more creatures instead which won't be dead top deck later in the game.
Thank you for the reply. I had not considered the statistics like that.
It makes burn a winnable matchup, even considering the chalice of the void that you have in the side. You may or may not struggle against affinity while I have never found Podless Company a real threat.
I know it's rather common, but I just got a HUGE kick out of what just went down on MTGO to me:
Playing against Junk. He rails me game 1 as per usual when they win the flip, I wrecked him with Relic of Progenitus owning game two.
Then, game three comes in. Turn one, some shockland. Noble Hierarch. I go. Island. Turn two, he goes for Tarmogoyf. I Spell Snare it. Long pause after I hit f6 to go all the way to my turn cause hell, I have nothing left to accomplish. Turn two, I drop Island and Spreading Seas his shockland.
He promptly quits. I had a good laugh. Hopefully, this helped boost someone's day as Fish can have off-days all the time, just like any other deck. But, today...mark one up for the Fishies!!
It makes burn a winnable matchup, even considering the chalice of the void that you have in the side. You may or may not struggle against affinity while I have never found Podless Company a real threat.
Wasn't Burn already relatively winnable, with Master of Waves in the main and Tidebinder Mage from the side? So wouldn't it be more correct to say, if anything, that it makes the match-up "more winnable"?
Path to Exile is obviously nicer than Vapor Snag or Dismember, but is it worth giving them an extra land? I can also imagine the Spell Pierce and Chalices working out well for you (both played in U Merfolk). I am missing Kira in your build, though.
How does Sejiri Merfolk fair in this match-up? Would you say he's the MVP, like others have suggested, and despite only playing 2 in your build?
I often find myself playing to get Master of Waves online in this match-up. Is the game-plan similar for you with respect to Worship?
Burn can be easily managed G1 just by landing either Worship, a Sejiri that can attack at least one time to gain life or a Spellskite. Postboard you can put in your chalices to make him stuck as long as you will find any of the other aforementioned sponges. Sejiri usually dies pretty fast, no matter the match up, that is the reason why you have to time his appearance really well. For what concerns PtE you don't have to always use it right away on creatures and that is something that most seem not to understand; you can still get some punch in the face before wasting a PtE too early. It is extremely useful when they land Vexing Devils or an Eidolon when you don't have an active vial.
Master of Waves sometimes is too slow. They will always throw spells at you so you will have a lot of creatures on the board usually. Master of Waves gives him at least one turn more to burn you away. Worship wins the game on the spot.
I know you found yourself paired against a semi-budget build here but don't let it discourage you from the league. After playing 5 or 6 courses i've found it to be very competitive. Thanks for the video, i've been wondering where you were all week! looking forward to more
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The combo is irrelevant against us, I agree. But if you take that out of the picture, it's a Wilted Abzan (or Zoo) deck with crappier 1-drops, which should be easy prey for Merfolk. Their creatures generally aren't that large (they usually top out at Kitchen Finks in terms of P/T, which we outclass easily). Qasali Pridemage gets outclassed by our creatures in combat and might even get traded in for a Spreading Seas or an Æther Vial, which would usually still be a net win for us in terms of board state. Dromoka's Command is a bit of an issue because it can potentially be a 2-for-1, but it involves risk: a timely Vial activation can turn it into a 2-for-1 your way, and a bounce effect can have the fight effect fizzle. It's a matchup that requires disciplined play from Merfolk because the specter of the combo is looming if they have any of the 3 main pieces on the table (since the other 2 could potentially be just a Collected Company away), but if you're disciplined and recognize their lines of play (and there aren't many), you'll beat them pretty handily.
You guys are weird. My results vs Podless pod are pretty 50/50. I ONLY lose to the combo. Keep in mind some versions are more value oriented and more combo oriented. That can skew your results or perception. Some are very focused on 4x Chord of Calling and 4x Collected Company and winning out of nowhere. The value version play 5-6 version of these cards instead.
I think the deck moved away from the more combo-heavy version some time ago. That one may do better against us (probably if it tries to combo off once we've thwarted it once or twice and are out of answers), but it's weaker against the field, so you're less likely to see it. That said, I've faced the more combo-heavy version as well as the value-heavy version, and I don't believe the matchup is appreciably different. If you thwart the combo the first time, whether they scramble to try and combo off again or shift gears and attempt to play the value game against you is irrelevant - they're still in trouble.
Some janked up tourney tonight. I won the tourney 3-0. first match was Grixis. First match i kept blowing up his red with Spreading seas. I kept vialing in threats and killed him. Game 2x I sided out snags and 2x dismembers for all counters. I counted 2x Kolagans. He blew up my Aether with the 3rd K-commands. I never even knew they ran 3x. So after that I drew another aether. 3x LoA in a row... game.
Second match was against my own deck I let my friend borrow. Stompy. It was a long game. First match back and forth, my life hit 2. I had to dismember baloth 3 times; only way I beat him was play 2x vapor snags to kill his life and attack for 3. Second game, Dungrove elders kept growing; I lost. 3rd game he played slow not drawing creatures. By the time he got his creatures on board i kept countering his pump. I won again by oddly drawing 3x LoA. This makes me feel good about my stompy and my side board.
3rd match was the cascade deck, living end? Kept cycling stuff and the card brings graveyards to field. I knew going in I was slow. he combo'd off turn 4, with prefect land drops. Second game. I brought in 2x Relics and 5 counters. I kept him off black, he then cascaded into it, I remanded to his hand and kept him from playing. I then drew relic. 2x turns later he went off again and I responded by blowing up grave yard. he said GG. Long night, I felt like I earned this one, lol nothing was easy
Don't like it. Manabase vulnerable.
In addition to that, i'm just not fond of the Rietzl aproach with only one Vapor Snag as a spell in the main.
I have similar thoughts. Prefer to have some Wanderwine in there, as well as Minamo and Oboro. Also missing Tectonic Edge in the side, as far as lands go.
I wanted to ask about this. I'm testing out my manabase with spell pierces and dismembers, but am finding Cavern of Souls a strain in a lot of hands I keep as I need blue mana for pierce and seas. I'm thinking of taking the Caverns out of the deck. What do you people think?
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Keep 1 or 2 in - they're a godsend Game 1 against the likes of U-based control decks like Grixis and Azorius Control (and a large part of the reason our matchups against them are favorable, in my opinion). Between the 10 Island, Minamo, School at Water's Edge, Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, and Wanderwine Hub, you should be mostly fine.
I was wondering if anyone has experience playing against BW Tokens. I'm pretty sure the matchup favors Merfolk, but I'd love to hear some opinions on it.
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Don't like it. Manabase vulnerable.
In addition to that, i'm just not fond of the Rietzl aproach with only one Vapor Snag as a spell in the main.
I have similar thoughts. Prefer to have some Wanderwine in there, as well as Minamo and Oboro. Also missing Tectonic Edge in the side, as far as lands go.
I wanted to ask about this. I'm testing out my manabase with spell pierces and dismembers, but am finding Cavern of Souls a strain in a lot of hands I keep as I need blue mana for pierce and seas. I'm thinking of taking the Caverns out of the deck. What do you people think?
I personally have played 3 and have been for a very long time and haven't ever had any problems. I just find it really important to shut off a portion of people's blue decks and I've won more games from having uncounterable creatures than not being able to cast a blue spell. I can see Cavern conflicting with Spell Pierce and Vapor Snag though, so it's kind of a preference thing as I've seen most people play 1-2 in modern but that being said, they only require 1 blue mana.
And thanks for the words of advice, gents. I think I'll try Unified Will in my sideboard over Spellskite and see how that goes.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I've been using Unified Will in my mono U build, I like it quite a bit. In so many circumstances it is just counterspell that's easier to cast.
I run 2 of, bring it in against a ton of decks.
Your thoughts on the Company match up is spot on, Rothgar13. Even an early snap/path/whatever removal on a dork can really screw them up, especially if you have a Seas too. Finks is barely a threat like you said, basically we can interrupt their combo in many ways, and beyond that we have so much pressure that the slightest tempo gains feel like they already lost. It is a favorable matchup imo
I have to say though, should any G/W/x deck have Dromoka's Command, suddenly your day got a lot worse lol that's definitely a big hurdle, but it is rarely, if ever, used in Collected Company; Abzan is the real abuser of that card.
No problem! Basically between Chalice, some number of bounce spells, Path, and the raw power of Stony Silence and Kataki, Affinity shouldn't be too much of an issue. Also, Worship mean they can't win, unless through infect. You have Spreading Seas, and removal in the form of Path/Harbinger/etc to deal with that. Always a tough game against them but with these types of tools and smart play you shouldn't fear them at all and should have a much, much higher chance against them.
-Sygg, River Cutthroat
I play all Cavern of Souls decks
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Thank you for the reply. I had not considered the statistics like that.
Landcronomicon
Playing against Junk. He rails me game 1 as per usual when they win the flip, I wrecked him with Relic of Progenitus owning game two.
Then, game three comes in. Turn one, some shockland. Noble Hierarch. I go. Island. Turn two, he goes for Tarmogoyf. I Spell Snare it. Long pause after I hit f6 to go all the way to my turn cause hell, I have nothing left to accomplish. Turn two, I drop Island and Spreading Seas his shockland.
He promptly quits. I had a good laugh. Hopefully, this helped boost someone's day as Fish can have off-days all the time, just like any other deck. But, today...mark one up for the Fishies!!
Twitch Channel - https://www.twitch.tv/moontimedweller
MODERN - Mono-Blue Merfolk & 7-Forest Goblin Charbelcher
LEGACY - Ruby Storm & Burn
PAUPER - Zombies, Bogles, & Burn
https://youtu.be/VC3im9DLgE4
Burn can be easily managed G1 just by landing either Worship, a Sejiri that can attack at least one time to gain life or a Spellskite. Postboard you can put in your chalices to make him stuck as long as you will find any of the other aforementioned sponges. Sejiri usually dies pretty fast, no matter the match up, that is the reason why you have to time his appearance really well. For what concerns PtE you don't have to always use it right away on creatures and that is something that most seem not to understand; you can still get some punch in the face before wasting a PtE too early. It is extremely useful when they land Vexing Devils or an Eidolon when you don't have an active vial.
Master of Waves sometimes is too slow. They will always throw spells at you so you will have a lot of creatures on the board usually. Master of Waves gives him at least one turn more to burn you away. Worship wins the game on the spot.
Landcronomicon
I know you found yourself paired against a semi-budget build here but don't let it discourage you from the league. After playing 5 or 6 courses i've found it to be very competitive. Thanks for the video, i've been wondering where you were all week! looking forward to more
U
WUBRGPeopleGRBUW
U Turbo Turns U
UB Fae BU
WBG Aristocrats GBW
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Second match was against my own deck I let my friend borrow. Stompy. It was a long game. First match back and forth, my life hit 2. I had to dismember baloth 3 times; only way I beat him was play 2x vapor snags to kill his life and attack for 3. Second game, Dungrove elders kept growing; I lost. 3rd game he played slow not drawing creatures. By the time he got his creatures on board i kept countering his pump. I won again by oddly drawing 3x LoA. This makes me feel good about my stompy and my side board.
3rd match was the cascade deck, living end? Kept cycling stuff and the card brings graveyards to field. I knew going in I was slow. he combo'd off turn 4, with prefect land drops. Second game. I brought in 2x Relics and 5 counters. I kept him off black, he then cascaded into it, I remanded to his hand and kept him from playing. I then drew relic. 2x turns later he went off again and I responded by blowing up grave yard. he said GG. Long night, I felt like I earned this one, lol nothing was easy
https://youtu.be/Ll0jW1iHCZU
I wanted to ask about this. I'm testing out my manabase with spell pierces and dismembers, but am finding Cavern of Souls a strain in a lot of hands I keep as I need blue mana for pierce and seas. I'm thinking of taking the Caverns out of the deck. What do you people think?
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
I personally have played 3 and have been for a very long time and haven't ever had any problems. I just find it really important to shut off a portion of people's blue decks and I've won more games from having uncounterable creatures than not being able to cast a blue spell. I can see Cavern conflicting with Spell Pierce and Vapor Snag though, so it's kind of a preference thing as I've seen most people play 1-2 in modern but that being said, they only require 1 blue mana.
Modern UMerfolkU
Legacy UMerfolkU
Standard XWhatever's GoodX