Played some games last night against UR emrakul-breach and had a hard time.
In a sense that deck is designed specifically to destroy tron and similar strategies. I didn't feel too bad losing. In some games I had solid winning lines and emrakul wasn't even game over by itself (they only get to swing once).
Still, it's rough. Certainly the other variants of UR are easier to beat.
Anyone have any advice? I've been running 1x boil in the sideboard and it's actually great.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Should I be playing Relics maindeck or are they fine in the Sideboard? Apperantly some people are trying out Blood Sun. How good is it in the Sideboard?
Here is my current list. What are your thoughts. What are some good cards to be running in the Sideboard for different matchups? Is 1 Walking Ballista in the 75 good enough or should there be another in the Sideboard? Is it worth it to be playing a single K-Return even if I have 3 Pyroclasms? Should I change it for another card or is it fine? Is there anything I should think about changing in the deck?
You definitely want at least two basics in your 75. Whatever else shakes out in the meta, I would count on two things:
1. Field of Ruin has proven itself, and isn't going anywhere.
2. Tron is probably the most obvious deck everyone expects will be good against BBE and JtMS decks, and as such opponents will be packing more ways to handle it.
Anything that is solid against Tron and either of the aforementioned post-unban decks will be popular in the next few weeks. I'm looking more at fast combo than anything, so that means we need hand interaction. Even prior to the unban announcement, notice the decklists for the four Gx Tron players in the top 32 of GP Toronto; the number of cards that could interact directly with the opponent's hand (with choice, so not counting Karn) were 2, 5, 5, and 8(!). I think that no matter what version of Gx Tron you might be on, you want at least Thought-Knot Seer in your 75 if you aren't running black, and some mix of those and/or Collective Brutality and Thoughtseize if you are on the black splash. Extremely versatile, rarely dead (especially TKS and CB), and great in some of our worst match-ups. I see some people saying that TKS is bad against Jace...it's quite the opposite, and they definitely have to respect it.
Relic in the main...well, it can definitely save us from some bad match-ups if we can hit it early, and it's never really dead (especially pre-board, since you'll almost always be able to cycle it). I have a feeling that, since most of the fastest decks rely on graveyards to get there, Relic should have some presence main deck. Personally, I only run one, but that's with what we've been used to, not what's about to hit.
Speaking of what's about to hit...Thragtusk's viability seems to have gotten way better. It's a house against pretty much any midrange or control, and is also solid against Burn (which might also get more popular, due to the reasons I mentioned earlier). It's also one of the more reliably castable spells we have if someone is trying to keep us off Tron.
I have a feeling that a lot of decks will leverage mana dorks to try to get the fresh powerhouse cards down ASAP. Ponza is the really scary one for us, but turn two Blood Moon or land destruction, or even turn three JtMS after some turn two disruption, can pull them ahead of us quickly. Because of this, and because Gifts Storm will also probably be more popular, I feel that every Gx Tron variant needs to be packing single-mana removal spells. Dismember is solid against pretty much everything but Burn, Fatal Push is still decent, and Lightning Bolt is probably what GR needs to be using primarily.
With control almost certainly becoming more popular, having threats we can push through is essential. Two main ways to do that: more threats, or Cavern of Souls. Cavern cuts into my basic count, so I don't prefer it, but it can definitely do real work in the right meta (just ask purklefluff). My preference recently has been to simply play more copies of Walking Ballista. It's typically better the more of them you play, since it's any of the following:
-A basic removal spell that doesn't force you to drop non-Tron lands (incidentally, this is also why Dismember has become so popular for Gx Tron builds)
-A sweeper for go-wide creature decks (it's incredible against Affinity/Robots and Elves)
-A speed bump that can be played to buy time to deploy a bigger threat or answer, especially if they are blowing up our lands (or turning them into basics/Mountains/Islands)
-Another way to trigger Sanctum of Ugin (sometimes for another Walking Ballista, since two of them with healthy mana can close the game faster than even Ulamog if conditions are right)
-A significant enough threat with Tron online to bait counters before dropping something like Ulamog or Ugin to dominate games
-Anyone trying to bounce it (hi Jace) will have themselves or their precious planeswalkers pinged down until Ballista has a single counter left, then we can cast it again the next turn
-One of our fastest ways to turn the corner when we need to (especially in GR Tron packing Lightning Bolts)
-One of the very few mana sinks worth playing in a deck that can sometimes flood out
Even in GR, I think I would be looking to run the full playset of Oblivion Stone in my 75 (probably by 60, but possibly a 3/1 split). Ballista and the single-mana spot removal allow us to buy time to get there, and to off bothersome pests like Thalia or Meddling Mage. For me, the instant-speed board wipe capability and the possibility to still use it realistically through land destruction/disruption trumps what cards like All is Dust can bring to the table. The sorcery speed and color requirements (it's so bad against Affinity/Robots) of All is Dust have hamstrung me too many times to rely on it, and I don't run Emrakul tPE to capitalize on the tribal type for cheaper casting.
Regarding Blood Sun and Boil...well, the construction of the prey decks will be important here. If UR Jace Moon decks become a thing, Boil will often take them out of the game. Against three-color blue decks, they sometimes don't have as many Islands as you'd think, especially if they are cutting some number of Cryptic Command to make room for Jace. Against UW Control, they are usually turning our lands into Islands, so Boil's not what we typically want there either. Blood Sun is only really a game-breaker against Valakut decks (though it's never truly dead, which is nice); I don't feel like our game plan should be to hope to stick a turn three Blood Sun, on the play, against a fetch-bearing deck. Sun is also great against UW Control, but I think Cavern and/or more readily-castable threats do much better here.
Crumble to Dust is a card I've never really preferred for Gx Tron, honestly. The main matches we want it for are the mirror and Valakut, where it's often a turn too slow to get us back into the game. Everywhere else, it's nice, but not fantastic, so that's not good enough for me.
On the other hand, Warping Wail had fallen out of favor for me, since the Valakut decks had fallen off a bit, but with a chance for their resurgence as well as Ponza with BBE...well, I would consider them more strongly if that all pans out. I do feel like the discard suite of TKS, CB, and TS are overall better in most circumstances though, especially due to their greater versatility and proactive natures.
I have registered for GP Phoenix, and I'll be tuning a GB list that jams multiple basics, plenty of threats, and a healthy amount of discard in the board. If I were to consider GR, it would be with Lightning Bolts and maybe a few red sweepers (1-2; probably Kozilek's Return since it's so much more versatile, Stirrings-able, and Bolt would usually buy us the time to use it). TKS would definitely be in the sideboard, at least two Forests would be there, and the meta would really need to reward me for playing Groves (Shadow decks still ending up on top) or more silver-bullet cards like Blood Sun and/or Boil (Blue Moon and Valakut, for instance). I'd probably have Warping Wail in there since GR can't play TS or CB, but Pithing Needle might be better depending on what's popular (and it's ace against Jace).
Sacred Ground: A big issue with Crucible of Worlds and Life from the Loam is that they can help you recover from land destruction, but they won't undo the tempo loss. This card effectively makes all your lands indestructible unless they have graveyard hate (not that likely outside of Scavenging Ooze) or a Surgical Extraction. The obvious disadvantage compared to Crucible or Life from the Loam is that this won't do anything to get you your lands back if you draw it after the fact, but the degree to which it makes you impervious to land destruction while in play shouldn't be ignored.
Autumn's Veil: If there's an uptick in counterspells, Cavern of Souls is nice, but it won't get a Karn, Ugin, or Oblivion Stone through. This card can basically get anything you want through a counterspell, and (if applicable) can be used to stop a Cryptic Command bouncing a creature. And pretty much no one will see this card coming, at least the first time.
I like Defense Grid more for a SB answer to blue counterspell decks. It's done work in my KCI deck. It screws up their setups a lot.
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Modern: -UBG Lantern Control-GW or RG or R Tron - G Stompy - C KCI Combo-
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
Sacred Ground forces us into white. Many of us like that splash; I personally don't prefer it to G, GR, or GB, but if I was to be on white, I still wouldn't play it. Why? It does nothing to get us back in the game when dropped after the land destruction happens, and we can't use it to recycle GQ or Sanctum. This means in order to maximize effectiveness, we would need to run it in higher numbers than I'd care to rely upon for the effect, and it does nothing proactive at all. Cards like Pithing Needle and Warping Wail can mitigate some of these risks while being versatile enough to help us in several other bad spots. Both of those can also be hit off of Ancient Stirrings as well, which is nice.
Autumn's Veil has a similar issue for me: in order to be effective, you need to have one handy before you cast your spell. This is essentially a tax of a card and a green mana source. Again this means multiples to ensure a turn 4 or 5 casting (especially since it too cannot be hit off of Stirrings). Cavern of Souls, on the other hand, can be searched for, and adds mana regardless of need to push a creature through counters. Defense Grid does seem to be a better option as well, since you can Stirrings for it, drop it in turns prior to casting your beef (you can set it up much more easily), and enjoy its continuous presence to affect multiple counter attempts (regardless of card type, like Veil).
cavern of souls is probably the best option against control decks (with a mix of other stuff like thought-knots) because half your deck tutors it up.
And if you need to land a clutch threat, they don't get priority to destroy the cavern before you can tap it for mana. Drop the land, play the creature.
Also boil is an old favourite and does its job pretty well (end step cast boil. Opponent goes 0_0 then counters it or feels sad. In your main phase land your big threat)
Defense grid is fine. Not crazy good but definitely fine. Played it before & won games from having access to it.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Largest issue with Cavern (besides the price :D) is keeping a decent amount of basics, so if you're going with that route you probably should be playing Mono-G.
Question: Anyone else running a singleton Wastes? It's been rather useful here to make TKS and Warping Wail castable against Blood Moon. Would not recommend unless you're already running 3+ Basics, though.
Congrats on the finish! Still a great accomplishment! My goal is still to atleast Day 2 a GP, lol.
I am playing Mono G Tron since a few weeks and i have to say i do not miss the removal at all. Instead of Pyroclasms etc. i play 4 Walking Ballistas and i am very content with it.
Also SB Thought-Knots are pretty good at blocking stuff, even if you do not make it to Tron on turn 3.
Congrats on the finish! Still a great accomplishment! My goal is still to atleast Day 2 a GP, lol.
I am playing Mono G Tron since a few weeks and i have to say i do not miss the removal at all. Instead of Pyroclasms etc. i play 4 Walking Ballistas and i am very content with it.
Also SB Thought-Knots are pretty good at blocking stuff, even if you do not make it to Tron on turn 3.
Huh, you're right. I actually triple checked because i first had some Thought-Knots MD for sure and also a Relic and i figured i miscounted my deck at home.
I'm at work right now so this whole list was off the top of my head.
Should be 2 TKS, 1 Relic, 1 Dismember additionally MD, what changes in the SB i don't know right now.
G1 Bye
G2 Ad naus (lose 0-2)On the Draw
G3 Burn (lose 0-2) On the Draw
G4 W Hatebear (Win 2-1) On the Draw
G5 Vizir Coco (Win 2-1)On the play
G6 Affi (Win 2-1)On the draw
G7 Affi (Win 2-0)On the Play
G8 Grixis control (Win 2-0)On the Play
G9 Burn (Win 2-1 (best game of the week end) On the Draw
G10 Jeskai (Lose 0-2)On the Draw
G11 Grixis Shadow (Win 2-0)On the Draw
G12 BW Smallpox (Win 2-0)On the Play
G13 Hollow one (Win 2-0)On the Play
G14 Mardu Pyro (Win 2-0)On the Draw
G15 .... BW Hatebear (1-2)On the Draw
I am really disapointed since I lost the ladt round to cash in...
(And I feel like I have a 11-4 curse since its my 3rd 11-4 in my 3 last gp playing GB tron).
It feels really good to play our dear karn father those day.
I might try the green version since it made 6 appearances in the top32.
What are your thoughts about Green Tron.
I am a bit worried that the deck mighr be weeker vs aggro. (Dismember seems awful vs affi, burn or humans).
Thx.
If you're worried about aggro, then run a few copies of Fog maindeck or sideboard. That card can be amazing. Moment's Peace is preferable but sadly isn't legal. The bigger worry I have regarding mono-Green Tron is its matchup against combo decks like Storm and Scapeshift or "pseudo-combo" like Burn. It seems like all the best cards against them are outside of Green. Heck, I'm not even sure how mono-Green Tron can handle Scapeshift at all; Warping Wail can stop the Scapeshift itself but you're in big trouble if they go off with a Primeval Titan.
Heck, I'm not even sure how mono-Green Tron can handle Scapeshift at all; Warping Wail can stop the Scapeshift itself but you're in big trouble if they go off with a Primeval Titan.
The combo is usually the worst part, Primetime is scary but dies to most things in our deck. Though he can get out of hand very fast if they have Prismatic Omen.
Pre-board either you go with a fast Wurmcoil getting your life total out of combo range, or fast Karn into Ulamog killing their lands. It's hard but doable. Post-board Warping Wail + TKS is the way to go. You don't necessarily need so save Wail for Scapeshift, countering early game ramp can be backbreaking.
My name is Eliott and I finished at 11th place (13-2) at Grand Prix Lyon this past weekend with Mono Green Tron.
This was my first Day 2 and I'm extremely happy with the result, as I'm playing Tron since the begginings of Modern !
If it's okay to post a link here, I'll post an MTGGoldfish or MTGTop8 link with my deck list.
Otherwise I'll update my post with the list when I have time.
My matchups were the following :
Round 1 : Really cool Temur Warriors deck (2-1)
Round 2 : Burn (2-1)
Round 3 : UR Through the Breach (2-1)
Round 4 : Nahiri Control (2-1)
Round 5 : Creatures Combo with Vizier and Devoted Druid (1-2)
Round 6 : Lantern Control (2-0)
Round 7 : Jeskai Through the Breach (2-1)
Round 8 : Affinity (2-1)
Round 9 : Jund (2-1)
Round 10 : Burn (0-2)
Round 11 : Thopter Foundry Combo (2-0)
Round 12 : Lantern Control (2-0)
Round 13 : BG Tron (2-0)
Round 14 : Mardu Pyromancer (2-1)
Round 15 : UW Control (2-0)
I would really love to know what your sb plans were for all of this. Would you run this list at your next GP? I've been wanting to switch over to mono-green and plan on testing this out on Friday next week.
I wonder if Mono G Tron will still be viable with the return of Jace and BBE. Both can succumb to Lightning Bolt, so it may be necessary to go back to splashing red with our Grooves? What does everyone else think?
I wonder if Mono G Tron will still be viable with the return of Jace and BBE. Both can succumb to Lightning Bolt, so it may be necessary to go back to splashing red with our Grooves? What does everyone else think?
So far mono-green has worked out well for me against those decks, but if I were on GR, I would definitely be favoring Bolt for the reasons you've mentioned.
G Tron is just so buttery smooth on lining up solid turn three and four plays. Since all of our spells are green or colorless, there's way less of a need to rely on playing non-Urza lands that we might have to drop first to slow opponents down. Cards like Dismember and Walking Ballista are great for this, since all we really need to do is live until our haymakers hit, and they're both essentially colorless. The high basic count is nice against Blood Moon and Field of Ruin as well. Lastly, TKS out of the board helps in matches where we want to disrupt hands more, which helps against Burn and combo.
Last night I went 4-0 at a relatively busy Modern FNM. Here is the list I played:
Long story short, I went 2-1 against Ad Nauseam, 2-0 against BBE Jund (including the best game I've played in years; BBE is exactly what Jund wanted for this match, and it's wild fun and very strong), 2-0 against BBE Jund again, and 2-0 against Grixis Control (w/no JtMS). The one game against the first Jund player lasted about 40 minutes, and was like an amazing back-and-forth tennis match. I wish we had it on camera to review and just have fun reliving (except where I chumped his BBE for no good reason, which allowed him to recycle it with Lili 2.0...whoops, lesson learned). He cast BBE six times, and hit Fulminator Mage on three of them. More Maelstrom Pulses and Dreadbores also allowed him to survive multiple Karns and Ugins, though the second Ugin is what finally closed the match out. Even if I had lost that game, it would still have been the most fun and memorable one for me in a long time.
Ad Naus crushed me the first game, then TKS and Nature's Claim (and even the random Crucible/GQ lock to keep him off black in the third game) did enough to buy me the time I needed to win. Of course, I drew well those games, but man it felt good to win such a bad match.
The only card that underperformed for me was Surgical Extraction. Even though I thought I would bring it in to combat Fulminator recycling, in actual play Relic was still the better card (largely because the ability to also shrink Goyf is good, and the card draw is very important). Would have rather had the third Ballista and a fourth Relic (or a single Grafdigger's Cage), or the pair of Spatial Contortion for more firepower against fast aggro (including Humans, which was still tearing up, despite the numerous BBE Jund and Jace control decks). Warping Wail wasn't amazing either, but it's at least good at blowing out some opponents in matches that aren't typically favorable for us. But the Crucible, third Relic, and three each of Thragtusk (incredible against Jund and Jace), TKS, and Nature's Claim effects are all locked in my build for the GP in Phoenix next month.
I thought about replacing the fifth Forest with a single Horizon Canopy, but the single card draw doesn't offset the potential loss of more life (and possible loss of tempo for doing so) for me. Crucible makes me want more utility lands, but just being able to recycle blown up Tron pieces, GQ, and Sanctum is good enough to justify it. I also really like having five green-producing lands for consistency.
Hey everyone, went to a bar last night hosting a small modern night and ended up going 5 - 1 and won some packs. Not bad for a little $5 tourney but my one loss was the most brutal beating I have received in some time playing GB Tron.
How on God's green Earth do we beat Grishoalbrand combo?
I felt like a six-year-old kid trying to wrestle his dad. I brought in 2 rest in peace and two thoughtseize. I keep 2 rest in peace in the sideboard even though I don't have any Plains in my deck. I use the stars and spheres to mana fix should it come up and hope for the best.
I hit none of my sideboard hate in my opening hand but I had a turn 3 karn and had a wurmcoil engine so I kept. Never saw turn 3 as he comboed off on my second end step.
The way that deck keeps drawing and refilling its life at instant speed is unreal.
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Modern - Pyro Prison
Modern - GW Tron
Modern - Mono G Tron
Modern - RWg Burn
Commander - Yisan, The Wanderer Bard cEDH build
Commander - Edric, Spymaster of Trest - Budget/Casual list - complete
Commander - Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis - $35 Budget upgrade
Commander - Edgar Markov - $150 upgrade
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In a sense that deck is designed specifically to destroy tron and similar strategies. I didn't feel too bad losing. In some games I had solid winning lines and emrakul wasn't even game over by itself (they only get to swing once).
Still, it's rough. Certainly the other variants of UR are easier to beat.
Anyone have any advice? I've been running 1x boil in the sideboard and it's actually great.
Here is my current list. What are your thoughts. What are some good cards to be running in the Sideboard for different matchups? Is 1 Walking Ballista in the 75 good enough or should there be another in the Sideboard? Is it worth it to be playing a single K-Return even if I have 3 Pyroclasms? Should I change it for another card or is it fine? Is there anything I should think about changing in the deck?
Thanks
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/08-01-17-vPQ-gr-tron/?cb=1518650125
1. Field of Ruin has proven itself, and isn't going anywhere.
2. Tron is probably the most obvious deck everyone expects will be good against BBE and JtMS decks, and as such opponents will be packing more ways to handle it.
Anything that is solid against Tron and either of the aforementioned post-unban decks will be popular in the next few weeks. I'm looking more at fast combo than anything, so that means we need hand interaction. Even prior to the unban announcement, notice the decklists for the four Gx Tron players in the top 32 of GP Toronto; the number of cards that could interact directly with the opponent's hand (with choice, so not counting Karn) were 2, 5, 5, and 8(!). I think that no matter what version of Gx Tron you might be on, you want at least Thought-Knot Seer in your 75 if you aren't running black, and some mix of those and/or Collective Brutality and Thoughtseize if you are on the black splash. Extremely versatile, rarely dead (especially TKS and CB), and great in some of our worst match-ups. I see some people saying that TKS is bad against Jace...it's quite the opposite, and they definitely have to respect it.
Relic in the main...well, it can definitely save us from some bad match-ups if we can hit it early, and it's never really dead (especially pre-board, since you'll almost always be able to cycle it). I have a feeling that, since most of the fastest decks rely on graveyards to get there, Relic should have some presence main deck. Personally, I only run one, but that's with what we've been used to, not what's about to hit.
Speaking of what's about to hit...Thragtusk's viability seems to have gotten way better. It's a house against pretty much any midrange or control, and is also solid against Burn (which might also get more popular, due to the reasons I mentioned earlier). It's also one of the more reliably castable spells we have if someone is trying to keep us off Tron.
I have a feeling that a lot of decks will leverage mana dorks to try to get the fresh powerhouse cards down ASAP. Ponza is the really scary one for us, but turn two Blood Moon or land destruction, or even turn three JtMS after some turn two disruption, can pull them ahead of us quickly. Because of this, and because Gifts Storm will also probably be more popular, I feel that every Gx Tron variant needs to be packing single-mana removal spells. Dismember is solid against pretty much everything but Burn, Fatal Push is still decent, and Lightning Bolt is probably what GR needs to be using primarily.
With control almost certainly becoming more popular, having threats we can push through is essential. Two main ways to do that: more threats, or Cavern of Souls. Cavern cuts into my basic count, so I don't prefer it, but it can definitely do real work in the right meta (just ask purklefluff). My preference recently has been to simply play more copies of Walking Ballista. It's typically better the more of them you play, since it's any of the following:
-A basic removal spell that doesn't force you to drop non-Tron lands (incidentally, this is also why Dismember has become so popular for Gx Tron builds)
-A sweeper for go-wide creature decks (it's incredible against Affinity/Robots and Elves)
-A speed bump that can be played to buy time to deploy a bigger threat or answer, especially if they are blowing up our lands (or turning them into basics/Mountains/Islands)
-Another way to trigger Sanctum of Ugin (sometimes for another Walking Ballista, since two of them with healthy mana can close the game faster than even Ulamog if conditions are right)
-A significant enough threat with Tron online to bait counters before dropping something like Ulamog or Ugin to dominate games
-Anyone trying to bounce it (hi Jace) will have themselves or their precious planeswalkers pinged down until Ballista has a single counter left, then we can cast it again the next turn
-One of our fastest ways to turn the corner when we need to (especially in GR Tron packing Lightning Bolts)
-One of the very few mana sinks worth playing in a deck that can sometimes flood out
Even in GR, I think I would be looking to run the full playset of Oblivion Stone in my 75 (probably by 60, but possibly a 3/1 split). Ballista and the single-mana spot removal allow us to buy time to get there, and to off bothersome pests like Thalia or Meddling Mage. For me, the instant-speed board wipe capability and the possibility to still use it realistically through land destruction/disruption trumps what cards like All is Dust can bring to the table. The sorcery speed and color requirements (it's so bad against Affinity/Robots) of All is Dust have hamstrung me too many times to rely on it, and I don't run Emrakul tPE to capitalize on the tribal type for cheaper casting.
Regarding Blood Sun and Boil...well, the construction of the prey decks will be important here. If UR Jace Moon decks become a thing, Boil will often take them out of the game. Against three-color blue decks, they sometimes don't have as many Islands as you'd think, especially if they are cutting some number of Cryptic Command to make room for Jace. Against UW Control, they are usually turning our lands into Islands, so Boil's not what we typically want there either. Blood Sun is only really a game-breaker against Valakut decks (though it's never truly dead, which is nice); I don't feel like our game plan should be to hope to stick a turn three Blood Sun, on the play, against a fetch-bearing deck. Sun is also great against UW Control, but I think Cavern and/or more readily-castable threats do much better here.
Crumble to Dust is a card I've never really preferred for Gx Tron, honestly. The main matches we want it for are the mirror and Valakut, where it's often a turn too slow to get us back into the game. Everywhere else, it's nice, but not fantastic, so that's not good enough for me.
On the other hand, Warping Wail had fallen out of favor for me, since the Valakut decks had fallen off a bit, but with a chance for their resurgence as well as Ponza with BBE...well, I would consider them more strongly if that all pans out. I do feel like the discard suite of TKS, CB, and TS are overall better in most circumstances though, especially due to their greater versatility and proactive natures.
I have registered for GP Phoenix, and I'll be tuning a GB list that jams multiple basics, plenty of threats, and a healthy amount of discard in the board. If I were to consider GR, it would be with Lightning Bolts and maybe a few red sweepers (1-2; probably Kozilek's Return since it's so much more versatile, Stirrings-able, and Bolt would usually buy us the time to use it). TKS would definitely be in the sideboard, at least two Forests would be there, and the meta would really need to reward me for playing Groves (Shadow decks still ending up on top) or more silver-bullet cards like Blood Sun and/or Boil (Blue Moon and Valakut, for instance). I'd probably have Warping Wail in there since GR can't play TS or CB, but Pithing Needle might be better depending on what's popular (and it's ace against Jace).
Sacred Ground: A big issue with Crucible of Worlds and Life from the Loam is that they can help you recover from land destruction, but they won't undo the tempo loss. This card effectively makes all your lands indestructible unless they have graveyard hate (not that likely outside of Scavenging Ooze) or a Surgical Extraction. The obvious disadvantage compared to Crucible or Life from the Loam is that this won't do anything to get you your lands back if you draw it after the fact, but the degree to which it makes you impervious to land destruction while in play shouldn't be ignored.
Autumn's Veil: If there's an uptick in counterspells, Cavern of Souls is nice, but it won't get a Karn, Ugin, or Oblivion Stone through. This card can basically get anything you want through a counterspell, and (if applicable) can be used to stop a Cryptic Command bouncing a creature. And pretty much no one will see this card coming, at least the first time.
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
Autumn's Veil has a similar issue for me: in order to be effective, you need to have one handy before you cast your spell. This is essentially a tax of a card and a green mana source. Again this means multiples to ensure a turn 4 or 5 casting (especially since it too cannot be hit off of Stirrings). Cavern of Souls, on the other hand, can be searched for, and adds mana regardless of need to push a creature through counters. Defense Grid does seem to be a better option as well, since you can Stirrings for it, drop it in turns prior to casting your beef (you can set it up much more easily), and enjoy its continuous presence to affect multiple counter attempts (regardless of card type, like Veil).
And if you need to land a clutch threat, they don't get priority to destroy the cavern before you can tap it for mana. Drop the land, play the creature.
Also boil is an old favourite and does its job pretty well (end step cast boil. Opponent goes 0_0 then counters it or feels sad. In your main phase land your big threat)
Defense grid is fine. Not crazy good but definitely fine. Played it before & won games from having access to it.
Question: Anyone else running a singleton Wastes? It's been rather useful here to make TKS and Warping Wail castable against Blood Moon. Would not recommend unless you're already running 3+ Basics, though.
I am playing Mono G Tron since a few weeks and i have to say i do not miss the removal at all. Instead of Pyroclasms etc. i play 4 Walking Ballistas and i am very content with it.
Also SB Thought-Knots are pretty good at blocking stuff, even if you do not make it to Tron on turn 3.
My list currently looks like this:
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Forest
1 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Walking Ballista
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
3 Oblivion Stone
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Nature's Claim
3 Thragtusk
1 Dismember
2 Warping Wail
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
your list is short 4 cards main. just a heads up.
I'm at work right now so this whole list was off the top of my head.
Should be 2 TKS, 1 Relic, 1 Dismember additionally MD, what changes in the SB i don't know right now.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
The combo is usually the worst part, Primetime is scary but dies to most things in our deck. Though he can get out of hand very fast if they have Prismatic Omen.
Pre-board either you go with a fast Wurmcoil getting your life total out of combo range, or fast Karn into Ulamog killing their lands. It's hard but doable. Post-board Warping Wail + TKS is the way to go. You don't necessarily need so save Wail for Scapeshift, countering early game ramp can be backbreaking.
Here's your list from WOTC's page
4 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Creature (10)
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 World Breaker
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Walking Ballista
Sorcery (8)
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Ancient Stirrings
Instant (2)
2 Dismember
3 Oblivion Stone
4 Expedition Map
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
Land (19)
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Forest
1 Scavenger Grounds
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Thragtusk
3 Nature's Claim
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Pithing Needle
I would really love to know what your sb plans were for all of this. Would you run this list at your next GP? I've been wanting to switch over to mono-green and plan on testing this out on Friday next week.
So far mono-green has worked out well for me against those decks, but if I were on GR, I would definitely be favoring Bolt for the reasons you've mentioned.
G Tron is just so buttery smooth on lining up solid turn three and four plays. Since all of our spells are green or colorless, there's way less of a need to rely on playing non-Urza lands that we might have to drop first to slow opponents down. Cards like Dismember and Walking Ballista are great for this, since all we really need to do is live until our haymakers hit, and they're both essentially colorless. The high basic count is nice against Blood Moon and Field of Ruin as well. Lastly, TKS out of the board helps in matches where we want to disrupt hands more, which helps against Burn and combo.
Last night I went 4-0 at a relatively busy Modern FNM. Here is the list I played:
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
5 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 World Breaker
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Walking Ballista
2 Dismember
3 Oblivion Stone
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Expedition Map
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Warping Wail
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Thragtusk
3 Nature's Claim
Long story short, I went 2-1 against Ad Nauseam, 2-0 against BBE Jund (including the best game I've played in years; BBE is exactly what Jund wanted for this match, and it's wild fun and very strong), 2-0 against BBE Jund again, and 2-0 against Grixis Control (w/no JtMS). The one game against the first Jund player lasted about 40 minutes, and was like an amazing back-and-forth tennis match. I wish we had it on camera to review and just have fun reliving (except where I chumped his BBE for no good reason, which allowed him to recycle it with Lili 2.0...whoops, lesson learned). He cast BBE six times, and hit Fulminator Mage on three of them. More Maelstrom Pulses and Dreadbores also allowed him to survive multiple Karns and Ugins, though the second Ugin is what finally closed the match out. Even if I had lost that game, it would still have been the most fun and memorable one for me in a long time.
Ad Naus crushed me the first game, then TKS and Nature's Claim (and even the random Crucible/GQ lock to keep him off black in the third game) did enough to buy me the time I needed to win. Of course, I drew well those games, but man it felt good to win such a bad match.
The only card that underperformed for me was Surgical Extraction. Even though I thought I would bring it in to combat Fulminator recycling, in actual play Relic was still the better card (largely because the ability to also shrink Goyf is good, and the card draw is very important). Would have rather had the third Ballista and a fourth Relic (or a single Grafdigger's Cage), or the pair of Spatial Contortion for more firepower against fast aggro (including Humans, which was still tearing up, despite the numerous BBE Jund and Jace control decks). Warping Wail wasn't amazing either, but it's at least good at blowing out some opponents in matches that aren't typically favorable for us. But the Crucible, third Relic, and three each of Thragtusk (incredible against Jund and Jace), TKS, and Nature's Claim effects are all locked in my build for the GP in Phoenix next month.
I thought about replacing the fifth Forest with a single Horizon Canopy, but the single card draw doesn't offset the potential loss of more life (and possible loss of tempo for doing so) for me. Crucible makes me want more utility lands, but just being able to recycle blown up Tron pieces, GQ, and Sanctum is good enough to justify it. I also really like having five green-producing lands for consistency.
How on God's green Earth do we beat Grishoalbrand combo?
I felt like a six-year-old kid trying to wrestle his dad. I brought in 2 rest in peace and two thoughtseize. I keep 2 rest in peace in the sideboard even though I don't have any Plains in my deck. I use the stars and spheres to mana fix should it come up and hope for the best.
I hit none of my sideboard hate in my opening hand but I had a turn 3 karn and had a wurmcoil engine so I kept. Never saw turn 3 as he comboed off on my second end step.
The way that deck keeps drawing and refilling its life at instant speed is unreal.
Modern - GW Tron
Modern - Mono G Tron
Modern - RWg Burn
Commander - Yisan, The Wanderer Bard cEDH build
Commander - Edric, Spymaster of Trest - Budget/Casual list - complete
Commander - Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis - $35 Budget upgrade
Commander - Edgar Markov - $150 upgrade