On the Burn match, I find that without disruption the opponent tends to win fairly consistently on turn 4. The question is then whether to prioritize Tron or not (I guess not?). It seems that a board sweep is essential, as is a creature that can be played at least by turn 4? In which case we are looking for a very specific opening hand. When going for Tron, often I am dead before I could put it to any real use.
On the Burn match, I find that without disruption the opponent tends to win fairly consistently on turn 4. The question is then whether to prioritize Tron or not (I guess not?). It seems that a board sweep is essential, as is a creature that can be played at least by turn 4? In which case we are looking for a very specific opening hand. When going for Tron, often I am dead before I could put it to any real use.
Yeah so the normal turn 1 egg or map is what you want, but then turn 2 or 3 you'll want to pyroclasm. The burn deck ideally wants creatures in its opener (a hand without any is probably a mulligan) and multiples are common. The burn deck is also forced into frontloading as many creatures as possible before starting to cast burn spells. This means (especially on the draw) you can slam pyroclasm on your second turn and invalidate two creatures from your opponent. From there, they'll likely have a couple of lands and be forced into playing one spell a turn while you drop TKSs and thragtusks. This is an ideal scenario of course but you tend to get time after casting a sweeper to build tron and play stuff out.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
On the Burn match, I find that without disruption the opponent tends to win fairly consistently on turn 4. The question is then whether to prioritize Tron or not (I guess not?). It seems that a board sweep is essential, as is a creature that can be played at least by turn 4? In which case we are looking for a very specific opening hand. When going for Tron, often I am dead before I could put it to any real use.
Yeah so the normal turn 1 egg or map is what you want, but then turn 2 or 3 you'll want to pyroclasm. The burn deck ideally wants creatures in its opener (a hand without any is probably a mulligan) and multiples are common. The burn deck is also forced into frontloading as many creatures as possible before starting to cast burn spells. This means (especially on the draw) you can slam pyroclasm on your second turn and invalidate two creatures from your opponent. From there, they'll likely have a couple of lands and be forced into playing one spell a turn while you drop TKSs and thragtusks. This is an ideal scenario of course but you tend to get time after casting a sweeper to build tron and play stuff out.
Thanks, seems like the way yes. I went 1-2 in my last match, and was just one small misplay (delayed killing Eidolon with Nature's Claim for a turn) away from being in an excellent position to perhaps win the decider.
Otherwise, since I adjusted the deck based on your suggestions I am 10-5 (4-1,3-2,3-2), so thanks a lot pal!
Modern - Pyro Prison
Modern - GW Tron
Modern - Mono G Tron
Modern - RWg Burn
Commander - Yisan, The Wanderer Bard cEDH build
Commander - Edric, Spymaster of Trest - Budget/Casual list - complete
Commander - Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis - $35 Budget upgrade
Commander - Edgar Markov - $150 upgrade
UW Control, Lantern, and Jund are the first ones I think of That will benefit from the announcement.
Off the top my head, red green might be the build because that will give us access to Boil.
I was thinking RG too.
I've seen a few threads with people saying Jace works best with fetches (presumably for shuffling), so I was wondering about whether Blood Sun might look a little more appealing now?
Blood Moon does the same thing basically while also potentially color screwing the opponent.
Blood Sun has been pretty underwhelming in the testing i did.
IMO Ballista will be insane if the meta shifts toward Jund and Jace-Control. Threatening to kill Jace instantly when he comes down, shooting BBE before attacks... Looks pretty good to me.
I would like to take a question, i currently play R/G Tron and would like to hear from you guys if in my SB I should put Pithing Needle or Sorcerous Spyglass.
I think Spyglass is very good for giving information about the opponent's hand (and consequently the deck), since with these unbans and the great diversity of decks in the modern, having information of the opponent's hand/deck is very strong, however it comes in the turn 2.
Since the Needle is faster by entering Turn 1 and so it makes you interact/disrupt your opponent earlier.
R/G Tron has a great burn MU because of MD pyroclasm. Mono G tron has a worse MU because it plays MD dismember as its removal of choice
Pyroclasm is decent against Burn, but GR Tron definitely does not have a great Burn matchup; that's like saying that Lantern Control has a great Tron matchup because they run Pithing Needle. Honestly, GB Tron is probably better against Burn because of how amazing Collective Brutality can be.
I would like to take a question, i currently play R/G Tron and would like to hear from you guys if in my SB I should put Pithing Needle or Sorcerous Spyglass.
I think Spyglass is very good for giving information about the opponent's hand (and consequently the deck), since with these unbans and the great diversity of decks in the modern, having information of the opponent's hand/deck is very strong, however it comes in the turn 2.
Since the Needle is faster by entering Turn 1 and so it makes you interact/disrupt your opponent earlier.
I would like your opinion
I prefer Spyglass. First of all we are not guaranteed to see either card in our opening hands. Secondly, seeing the opponent's hand is extremely valuable and well worth one mana IMHO. Thirdly, the art is better
R/G Tron has a great burn MU because of MD pyroclasm. Mono G tron has a worse MU because it plays MD dismember as its removal of choice
Pyroclasm is decent against Burn, but GR Tron definitely does not have a great Burn matchup; that's like saying that Lantern Control has a great Tron matchup because they run Pithing Needle. Honestly, GB Tron is probably better against Burn because of how amazing Collective Brutality can be.
I agree on these points, having played against Burn with both GR Tron and GB Tron. It was quite easy with GB Tron if I saw multiple CBs...whereas with GR Tron, we need a little luck AND early interaction to survive.
LSV says that Tron is going to be in a bad spot thanks to JTMS due to all the aggressive linear strategies that will appear to combat Jace....
And yet, Urza's lands are exactly where I want to be against a deck trying to play Jace unless I'm empty handed and playing to the top of my deck. Also, where I want to be against Jund, BBE or no. Seems like Tron is a no-brainer in this meta. I'll probably play Lantern anyway.
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Modern: -UBG Lantern Control-GW or RG or R Tron - G Stompy - C KCI Combo-
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
I feel like if we build our MD and SB more against the aggressive decks in the format and just a little bit of "hate" against control we will be perfectly fine.
LSV says that Tron is going to be in a bad spot thanks to JTMS due to all the aggressive linear strategies that will appear to combat Jace....
It's a fair point. It's hard to predict how much the meta will shift towards agressive decks or control decks, and it might indeed be a "less hospitable" meta for us if it swings too far towards the aggressive side.
Do you think that RG or GW Tron is well positioned or better positioned than GB in the new meta with the unbannings? What is the upside of playing red instead of black or white? Are mono green Tron and GB Tron the most popular versions for some reason instead of GR or GW? What are you altering in your maindeck or sideboards to combat the effects of the unbannings? Are Pyroclasms used anymore or just K-Return and Lightning Bolt in GR Tron? In GW Tron what is a good amount of Paths and Blessed Alliance to play? I was trying to find a recent GR and GW list from tournaments but have been unsuccessful, only finding GB, Eldrazi, and mono green lists which seem to be the most popular for some reason. Does anyone know of a GR or GW list that has done well recently?
Do you think that RG or GW Tron is well positioned or better positioned than GB in the new meta with the unbannings? What is the upside of playing red instead of black or white? Are mono green Tron and GB Tron the most popular versions for some reason instead of GR or GW? What are you altering in your maindeck or sideboards to combat the effects of the unbannings? Are Pyroclasms used anymore or just K-Return and Lightning Bolt in GR Tron? In GW Tron what is a good amount of Paths and Blessed Alliance to play? I was trying to find a recent GR and GW list from tournaments but have been unsuccessful, only finding GB, Eldrazi, and mono green lists which seem to be the most popular for some reason. Does anyone know of a GR or GW list that has done well recently?
Do you think that RG or GW Tron is well positioned or better positioned than GB in the new meta with the unbannings? What is the upside of playing red instead of black or white? Are mono green Tron and GB Tron the most popular versions for some reason instead of GR or GW? What are you altering in your maindeck or sideboards to combat the effects of the unbannings? Are Pyroclasms used anymore or just K-Return and Lightning Bolt in GR Tron? In GW Tron what is a good amount of Paths and Blessed Alliance to play? I was trying to find a recent GR and GW list from tournaments but have been unsuccessful, only finding GB, Eldrazi, and mono green lists which seem to be the most popular for some reason. Does anyone know of a GR or GW list that has done well recently?
Yeah so the normal turn 1 egg or map is what you want, but then turn 2 or 3 you'll want to pyroclasm. The burn deck ideally wants creatures in its opener (a hand without any is probably a mulligan) and multiples are common. The burn deck is also forced into frontloading as many creatures as possible before starting to cast burn spells. This means (especially on the draw) you can slam pyroclasm on your second turn and invalidate two creatures from your opponent. From there, they'll likely have a couple of lands and be forced into playing one spell a turn while you drop TKSs and thragtusks. This is an ideal scenario of course but you tend to get time after casting a sweeper to build tron and play stuff out.
Otherwise, since I adjusted the deck based on your suggestions I am 10-5 (4-1,3-2,3-2), so thanks a lot pal!
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Off the top my head, red green might be the build because that will give us access to Boil.
Modern - GW Tron
Modern - Mono G Tron
Modern - RWg Burn
Commander - Yisan, The Wanderer Bard cEDH build
Commander - Edric, Spymaster of Trest - Budget/Casual list - complete
Commander - Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis - $35 Budget upgrade
Commander - Edgar Markov - $150 upgrade
I was thinking RG too.
I've seen a few threads with people saying Jace works best with fetches (presumably for shuffling), so I was wondering about whether Blood Sun might look a little more appealing now?
Blood Sun has been pretty underwhelming in the testing i did.
IMO Ballista will be insane if the meta shifts toward Jund and Jace-Control. Threatening to kill Jace instantly when he comes down, shooting BBE before attacks... Looks pretty good to me.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
I would like to take a question, i currently play R/G Tron and would like to hear from you guys if in my SB I should put Pithing Needle or Sorcerous Spyglass.
I think Spyglass is very good for giving information about the opponent's hand (and consequently the deck), since with these unbans and the great diversity of decks in the modern, having information of the opponent's hand/deck is very strong, however it comes in the turn 2.
Since the Needle is faster by entering Turn 1 and so it makes you interact/disrupt your opponent earlier.
I would like your opinion
It is true, however, that if Jace decks gain popularity, it might be time for the return of Boil to the Tron sideboard.
https://www.channelfireball.com/videos/jace-and-bloodbraid-unbanned-the-biggest-winners-losers-in-modern/
And yet, Urza's lands are exactly where I want to be against a deck trying to play Jace unless I'm empty handed and playing to the top of my deck. Also, where I want to be against Jund, BBE or no. Seems like Tron is a no-brainer in this meta. I'll probably play Lantern anyway.
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
My sideboard plan currently looks like this:
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Warping Wail
3 Thragtusk
2 Spatial Contortion
3 Pithing Needle
I currently play Mono G Tron with 4 Ballistas and 1 Relic MD. I might switch out the Relic to fit in the 3rd Wurmcoil again.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
It's a fair point. It's hard to predict how much the meta will shift towards agressive decks or control decks, and it might indeed be a "less hospitable" meta for us if it swings too far towards the aggressive side.
I'm putting together a GR list and I started with purk's list from a couple weeks ago, tweaked a bit towards the expected meta post-unbans:
here's the list I started with and some context