Hey Dizdo, I've been testing your list and made some changes. Took this to my LGS last night for a proxy event and went 3-1 (2-1 vs Grishoalbrand, 2-1 vs Merfolk, 2-0 vs Zoo, 1-2 vs Junk)
Really enjoying the deck so far, it's also been performing well on XMage. But I think it needs some slight tweaking still.
I'm also not sure about the Oblivion Sower. It feels more like a win-more card right now more than anything.
Hey Dizdo, I've been testing your list and made some changes. Took this to my LGS last night for a proxy event and went 3-1 (2-1 vs Grishoalbrand, 2-1 vs Merfolk, 2-0 vs Zoo, 1-2 vs Junk)
Really enjoying the deck so far, it's also been performing well on XMage. But I think it needs some slight tweaking still.
I'm also not sure about the Oblivion Sower. It feels more like a win-more card right now more than anything.
Glad to hear the deck is working well. I was considering replacing Oblivion Sower with All is Dust, but I felt that reduced the amount of threats in the deck, although I have also noticed that I have been wishing that I had removal when testing lists with oblivion sower over all is dust. Most people I talked to weren't impressed with oblivion sower and I would probably consider it the weakest card in the deck. Perhaps we could try four conduits, two all is dust, and adding an additional late game eldrazi to fetch with Conduit; either Kozilek or Ruin Processor (I felt emrakul was too slow and only affected a matchup we should already almost always win): I was usually testing all is dust as a three of before so this might help with the decreased threat density.
Oblivion Stone seems like anti synergy with the rest of the deck; I am assuming that its there for affinity and thopter combo variants? If that is so, I would recommend just adding two Creeping Corrosion to the sideboard instead as that card acts as an effective All is Dust against those decks; with the mix of nature's claim, world breaker, and creeping corrosion; artifact strategies shouldn't be a major problem. I should however note, while I have done well against affinity, I have not tested enough games against it to make any conclusions.
Went 3-1 yesterday at my LGS with this G/W list. Won against some 4C Nahiri build, Thopter/Sword and Ad Nauseum. Lost against Burn (Timely reinforcements never showed up)
The only weakness I've found with this build so far is how dangerously slow/inconsistent the late game can be (I was expecting this, with Eye gone). At some point you end up in Top-Draw mode and land Tutors become much less effective.
So I either need to get some late game material or make sure I do not end up there.
Here is the plan for the next iteration:
Replacing Path to Exile by Declaration in Stone.
Instant speed is nice, but the deck is used to Pyroclasm's speed and Declaration has a nice trade off: Sure you can't clear all the board, but you can hit Multiple Goyfs, Nactl, Merfolk Lords, Whatever main threat Affinity has, etc. Also with Thopter/Sword being a thing you want to clear multiple tokens. Gonna run 3~4, replacing any freed slot by another Conduit of Ruin.
Going to cut one Expedition Map and one Sylvan Scrying. For the replacement I'm thinking about either Oath of Nissa or I'm really tempted to give Time of Need a shot. It is more narrow but perfectly fills the job as a late game helper.
Sideboard wise, Rest in Peace doesn't synergize with Chromatic Star, beware.
I need to find slots for Warping Wail. Still debating Sacred Ground's numbers/use compared to Crucible of worlds.
Random Notes:
Conduit T3 into Ulamog T4 is very efficient, also does a good job with Emrakul. This is the reason I'm considering putting a 4th one and cutting a removal.
Emrakul is still relevant, the extra turn saved me two matches.
Conduit while not as durable than Eye, makes up by being a great Beater/Blocker
Replaced Eye with a forest, I have more Path to Exile fodder in my 75.
Another player was playing Gr with Sanctum of Ugin instead of Eye. His evening was filled with regret when he realized it would only fire off when casting Karn or his wincon. Stay away from that card if you still play with a more classic build.
Ugin stays for now, as I'm still undefeated when he resolves. That's a superstition call at this point
My meta is very combo oriented (adnausseam, scapeshift, griselshoal) and aggro (Zoo, Burn, Infect) but no control, and i'm kinda nervous for drop the pyros, but Reshapers fill that spot... kinda sometime are completely irrelevants and other are game breakers.
I'll test it tonight and get my report
I don't think mono green eldrazi tron would work very well as an aggro build. Spending the first two-three turns tutoring only to play 3-5 drops doesn't seem very strong compared to playing much larger threats. Plus with cards like oblivion stone/karn/ugin it seems like that would go contrary to the aggro game plan; I would recommend sticking to a more control build.
And it wasn´t..... Matter reshaper is completely irrelevant most time, and Reality Smasher is really good, but some times can´t finish the job...
so...
-4 Matter Reshaper
-4 Reality Smasher
+3 Conduit of Ruin
+1 Newlamog
+2 oblivion sower
+2 world break
I have collected data from 50 games of this deck; although this won't give us much information on specific matchups, this may be useful in helping determining how effective this deck is against each archetype.
1. This deck is as effective against blue control decks as planned. The deck has a 100% winrate against blue control deck variants. The only loss against a control deck was against skred. I do not believe that we will have a problem against control decks without eye of ugin. Being able to generate card advantage every time one casts an eldrazi has proven to be very effective against control.
2. This deck has a 100% winrate against thopter combo/tezzeret control variants. If either of these decks become popular, Mono Green eldrazi tron will be a very strong meta choice. The reason for this deck's sucess against these strategies is likely due to the abundance of artifact hate in both the mainboard and the sideboard.
3. This deck was oddly effective against combo, being able to defeat eggs and storm. I am uncertain however of how representative of the actual matchup this data is as combo was the least face archetype. (I should note that I consider infect aggro similar to burn.) The reason for this decks success against these two combo decks was due to the abundance of artifact hate against eggs and worldbreaker against storm's enchantment.
4. The only match losses were against burn, infect, grishoalbrand, and skred. Burn and infect may be problematic matchups due to their speed and consistency. Thought knot makes the infect matchup more tolerable, but I would recommend dedicating sideboard slots to both of these matchups.
5. This deck had the lowest matchup by far against aggro decks and although the matchup was still positive overall, this may change as more data is collected. The likely reason for this discrepancy is due to the lack of early game interaction the deck has against fast aggro variants. The most effective strategy against aggro is either to get a turn 2 thought knot seer or turn 3 tron with either all is dust or conduit into worldbreaker (or ulamog if you have another tower).
Overall, the data seems promising for this deck. I could see it becoming very relevant if thopter variants become tier 1 as well as if ancestral visions is enough to make blue control more popular. I am unsure how blue control can beat this deck at the moment without a mulligan to four. Further testing is needed however to both determine if this data is representative and to determine individual matchups.
I like the look of that list, Dizdo, but I'd highly recommend at least one Ghost Quarter. I've found it invaluable in some matchups, and it can save your butt against Crumble to Dust.
I'll do some testing with that mainboard but a modified sideboard. Also, if we're running two Feed the Clan, is the Ruin Processor necessary?
Having more threat density simply due to TKS has helped my consistency post-Eye quite a bit.
I tested more by replacing the Eye slot with Sanctum of Ugin, Sea-Gate Wreckage, and Emrakul:
-Emrakul without the ability to directly tutor for it was just too random to be consistent; it's just too much of a wild card. I either drew it sooner than I would have liked, or it never came (even after digging and more than a dozen turns in at least one case). I've won so much off of the back of that card over the years, so this is tough to say, but I don't think it will ever be good enough without something closer to Eye.
-Speaking of which, Sanctum of Ugin performed absolutely miserably for me, at least as a singleton. There were just too many times where I'd hit it, and then never have or get the right card to trigger it.
-After testing Sea-Gate Wreckage again, I noticed there are a lot of subtle ways we can make it work for us. The two main things are to Karn your own hand if your opponent doesn't have a better target, and that Sylvan Scrying can be cast without finding anything if it comes to it. With Ulamog at the top of the curve (and no need to have Eye mana waiting), anything over ten mana tends to be overkill. I had a game earlier where I Karned an extra Grove out of my hand, played Scrying finding nothing, dropped a Power Plant, drew off of Sea-Gate, and was able to just barely drop Ulamog on the same turn.
I can't see myself switching enough of the deck around to accommodate Academy Ruins and Yavimaya Coast/Breeding Pool, as this just doesn't feel effective enough at generating a threat presence against enough of the field. O-Stones don't stop everything, and Wurmcoil is usually getting exiled to cause me problems. So, for now at least, I'm sticking with Sea-Gate Wreckage. Once I practiced working with it, the long games got a bit better. Nothing will replace Eye, but SGW is the best thing I've used instead.
I am playing with Oath of Nissa , the mini-Stirrings are invaluable, I want to take advantage of the PW clause and hopefully regain some lost inevitability in the process, I am considering Bolas or Apex Predator, both complement Karn very well. I don't know if it will beany good, are there any others that might be on your radar for that type of testing?
I'm testing this as well. Full playset Nissa, mono-green tron. One bolas included. Until now, I like it! It's very stable, but of course a little more vulnerable to aggro.
I have been liking Oath, still haven't traded for the PW's I was thinking about getting really greedy, 2 each Garruk and Bolas, and a few TKS, probably the full 4, move the Stones to the SB, really maximize the late game. I need to test a bit to see if that would be too ambitious
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I like the look of that list, Dizdo, but I'd highly recommend at least one Ghost Quarter. I've found it invaluable in some matchups, and it can save your butt against Crumble to Dust.
I'll do some testing with that mainboard but a modified sideboard. Also, if we're running two Feed the Clan, is the Ruin Processor necessary?
Ill consider testing ghost quarters. At the moment, I would say yes to the Ruin Processor for two reasons; first because burn is one of the worst matchups for the deck and two, it can be used as a one of to be fetched by conduit against aggro decks in general replacing the kozilek. It also has niche uses against ancestral visions.
I am relatively new to Modern (and Magic in general), and after reviewing some of the popular deck archetypes, I think I am liking GR Tron a lot. At the same time, the recent banning of Eye of Ugin as I understand will have impact on the deck. Coincidentally, someone is selling this deck for $200 on Craigslist.
My questions:
- Can I use the deck reference above as a starting point of my Tron? Is it playable without modifications? (If not, is it playable after adding two missing Karns?)
- Is $200 a good price for that deck?
I am relatively new to Modern (and Magic in general), and after reviewing some of the popular deck archetypes, I think I am liking GR Tron a lot. At the same time, the recent banning of Eye of Ugin as I understand will have impact on the deck. Coincidentally, someone is selling this deck for $200 on Craigslist.
My questions:
- Can I use the deck reference above as a starting point of my Tron? Is it playable without modifications? (If not, is it playable after adding two missing Karns?)
- Is $200 a good price for that deck?
This list doesn't seem worth it. You still need to invest a lot more into the deck to make it viable.
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Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
I have been playing with World Breaker. I like the exile effect when it is cast. The sac a land to bring it back is nice in the late game. Anyone else messing with World Breaker
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Modern CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard GRGR Pummeler
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea seems fairly odd, i realize that. However i found it pretty useful. Since Tron basically has the "best" topdecks once tron is online it's just nuts. Your opponent draws what? A bird? A Lord? A Cantrip? We get Karn, Ugin, Ulamog, Wurmcoil, O-Stone. Or Cantrips to dig even further. I really like the card. I am currently considering to take out 1 Temple for a 2nd Forest and somehow jam in the third wurmcoil or an Endbringer
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea seems fairly odd, i realize that. However i found it pretty useful. Since Tron basically has the "best" topdecks once tron is online it's just nuts. Your opponent draws what? A bird? A Lord? A Cantrip? We get Karn, Ugin, Ulamog, Wurmcoil, O-Stone. Or Cantrips to dig even further. I really like the card. I am currently considering to take out 1 Temple for a 2nd Forest and somehow jam in the third wurmcoil or an Endbringer
Been doing a lot of testing on a deck list similar to this. My deck emphasizes eldrazi more than yours though and goes mono green so it is more consistent. I am unsure if it is worth it to splash into red with the eldrazi list as while you get pyroclasm and some sideboard tech, it seems to make your colors much less consistent and still seems as threat light as a regular GR tron list. I would recommend dropping wurmcoil and oblivion stones, wurmcoils, and ugin from this list for the following reasons: wurmcoil can't be cast effectively off of eldrazi temples meaning it is much slower than eldrazi are and fails to get any immediate value making it much weaker to control and midrange now that eye of ugin is gone. I may consider testing wurmcoil as sideboard tech against burn but it may be too slow still. Oblivion stone is anti synergy with your eldrazi when compared to cards like all is dust which can be both cast off of eldrazi temple and doesn't hit any of your permanents bar thragtusk. Ugin is slower in the eldrazi deck and doesn't provide enough value when compared to karn to justify using and it isn't as fast as all is dust when it comes to board wipes. Basically the overall suggestion I have is to go all in with the eldrazi plan, as only going half way doesn't seem consistent enough. I'd also consider playing 3-4 forests to ensure your opponents ghost quarters and path to exiles don't get more value than they should.
@Dizdo i get similar results with my version (diference is -1 karn -1 conduit -1 worldbreaker -1 kozilek, -2 all is dust +3 oblivion stone +2 oblivion sower +1 ugin).
All my control matches were an easy win but the aggro matches (especially naya burn) were overwhelming even with tron turn 3 or TKS turn 2. I think i have to get a better side.
AS my first matches were agro i was kinda disapointed with the deck, but as i have diferent matches the deck became really strong, even with the new control brews
@Dizdo i get similar results with my version (diference is -1 karn -1 conduit -1 worldbreaker -1 kozilek, -2 all is dust +3 oblivion stone +2 oblivion sower +1 ugin).
All my control matches were an easy win but the aggro matches (especially naya burn) were overwhelming even with tron turn 3 or TKS turn 2. I think i have to get a better side.
AS my first matches were agro i was kinda disapointed with the deck, but as i have diferent matches the deck became really strong, even with the new control brews
How have those differences worked for you? Oblivion stone was something that seemed worse than All is Dust to me and Oblivion Sower was something someone else and I determined to be win more. Haven't tested ugin but I didn't think it would be worth while over karn or all is dust. How did those cards work out in testing? Did they seem effective or were they too weak?
As for burn, it certainly seems like a bad matchup; if nothing else works, perhaps wurmcoil in the sideboard would be effective against these decks. While I was dissapointed with wurmcoil against midrange, combo, and control since the eye of ugin ban, it might be worthwhile against aggro even with eldrazi temples.
I am relatively new to Modern (and Magic in general), and after reviewing some of the popular deck archetypes, I think I am liking GR Tron a lot. At the same time, the recent banning of Eye of Ugin as I understand will have impact on the deck. Coincidentally, someone is selling this deck for $200 on Craigslist.
My questions:
- Can I use the deck reference above as a starting point of my Tron? Is it playable without modifications? (If not, is it playable after adding two missing Karns?)
- Is $200 a good price for that deck?
This list doesn't seem worth it. You still need to invest a lot more into the deck to make it viable.
I'm not sure why you say it's not worth it - even with investing more, all the cards of value (ones that are > $2-3) from this list are still relevant to Tron (with exception of Melira, Sylvok Outcast). I thought this would be buying the meat of the deck with a discount..
I've been following the thread with a lot of interest. I played GR Tron quite a bit before the Eldrazi came along and then played 4C Eldrazi with a lot of success -- especially against other Eldrazi decks -- while it was legal. One of the standout cards in my Eldrazi list was Eldrazi Displacer, which provided an excellent alt win-con when paired with TKS or a sided in Oblivion Sower.
Looking at Dizdo's list, which looks very solid, I am particularly intrigued by the prospect of splashing some white for Displacer in the MD and some good anti-aggro SB cards. There is quite a bit of Affinity and Boggles in my meta, so W provides Paraselene and Stony Silence, not to mention Path to Exile.
The concern I would have off the top though, is that the list looks like it's primary strength is its consistency. Would these changes wreck that? Thoughts?
I'd also love some more context around the results posted yesterday. You demonstrated a very solid performance against all the major archetypes, including aggro, which was always a challenge for GR Tron. I would have thought that would be more difficult so I'd love to know what crs were good and why, what kind of starts your opponents/testing partners had, etc.
Thanks.
/M
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
Dizdo, I like your mono G Tron list and your analysis. I'm not convinced yet, though. I can see how it's better tha Gr Tron versus control. But I don't understand your (almost) 70% win percentage versus aggro. That's even high with Gr Tron that does play Pyroclasm, Oblivion Stone and Wurmcoil/Thragtusk. Based on the list I don't see how you'll beat Merfolk, Affinity, Elves, Infect, Zoo etc. Could you elaborate on that please?
To be entirely honest, I did not expect this list to do as well as it did against the aggro matchup. The aggro matchups I won were slower aggro variants like zoo, eldrazi, delver variants, and soul sister. From the look of the data I would say that it is possible that the number of delver matchups I had inflated this winrate. Worldbreaker seems responsible for the improvements in that matchup due to the fact that it can both block delver and removes their land; it was a very powerful tool in stabilizing against delver decks and it didn't seem like the opponent could do anything about it. Although during this data collection I did not face affinity, I found that when playing against affinity Worldbreaker would often win the game as it would both destroy affinities biggest threat and block anything in their deck. I would say the edition of Thought-Knot Seer is also responsible for this decks success against aggro as I could play it consistently on turn 3 even without tron and it would take their game ending threat and give a big body they couldn't attack through.
I still need to collect more data on the aggro and combo matchups to ensure that the data I collected here is representative. I still believe burn and infect to be bad matchups and the aggro number may go down as I face more of those decks, although my games with infect always seemed close. From the 50 games I played, control seemed to be far more common than any other archetype, I am unsure if this is due to people testing out the unbanned decks or if it is a sign of the new meta.
I've been following the thread with a lot of interest. I played GR Tron quite a bit before the Eldrazi came along and then played 4C Eldrazi with a lot of success -- especially against other Eldrazi decks -- while it was legal. One of the standout cards in my Eldrazi list was Eldrazi Displacer, which provided an excellent alt win-con when paired with TKS or a sided in Oblivion Sower.
Looking at Dizdo's list, which looks very solid, I am particularly intrigued by the prospect of splashing some white for Displacer in the MD and some good anti-aggro SB cards. There is quite a bit of Affinity and Boggles in my meta, so W provides Paraselene and Stony Silence, not to mention Path to Exile.
The concern I would have off the top though, is that the list looks like it's primary strength is its consistency. Would these changes wreck that? Thoughts?
I'd also love some more context around the results posted yesterday. You demonstrated a very solid performance against all the major archetypes, including aggro, which was always a challenge for GR Tron. I would have thought that would be more difficult so I'd love to know what crs were good and why, what kind of starts your opponents/testing partners had, etc.
Thanks.
/M
You are correct about this decks strength; even without a tron opener you can still consistently cast your threats by turn 4 and I believe splashing white may make the deck less consistent. I would argue that the deck has enough tools to handle affinity due to it having 8 artifact hate cards in the mainboard and sideboard and that this matchup isn't that bad for this deck. Although I would still need to collect more data to show that. I believe that All is Dust and WorldBreaker are enough against boogles as the former destroys every enchantment the boogle player has and the latter can destroy a key enchantment and act as a blocker.
The winners against aggro were Thought Knot Seer, Worldbreaker, and All is Dust. I believe the only aggro matchup these three don't win is burn (I believe infect is winnable with this deck.) I believe the biggest challenge for this deck is finding a way to make the burn matchup more even.
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4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Forest
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 All is Dust
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Oblivion Sower
3 Conduit of Ruin
3 World Breaker
4 Karn Liberated
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Nature's Claim
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
1 Feed the Clan
1 Dismember
1 Endbringer
Really enjoying the deck so far, it's also been performing well on XMage. But I think it needs some slight tweaking still.
I'm also not sure about the Oblivion Sower. It feels more like a win-more card right now more than anything.
Modern: XAffinity GBXLantern Control
Legacy: UOmnitell RBurn
Glad to hear the deck is working well. I was considering replacing Oblivion Sower with All is Dust, but I felt that reduced the amount of threats in the deck, although I have also noticed that I have been wishing that I had removal when testing lists with oblivion sower over all is dust. Most people I talked to weren't impressed with oblivion sower and I would probably consider it the weakest card in the deck. Perhaps we could try four conduits, two all is dust, and adding an additional late game eldrazi to fetch with Conduit; either Kozilek or Ruin Processor (I felt emrakul was too slow and only affected a matchup we should already almost always win): I was usually testing all is dust as a three of before so this might help with the decreased threat density.
Oblivion Stone seems like anti synergy with the rest of the deck; I am assuming that its there for affinity and thopter combo variants? If that is so, I would recommend just adding two Creeping Corrosion to the sideboard instead as that card acts as an effective All is Dust against those decks; with the mix of nature's claim, world breaker, and creeping corrosion; artifact strategies shouldn't be a major problem. I should however note, while I have done well against affinity, I have not tested enough games against it to make any conclusions.
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
4 Brushland
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Forest
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Path to Exile
4 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Conduit of Ruin
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Rest in Peace
2 Sacred Ground
2 Pithing Needle
4 Nature's Claim
2 Spellskite
3 Timely Reinforcments
The only weakness I've found with this build so far is how dangerously slow/inconsistent the late game can be (I was expecting this, with Eye gone). At some point you end up in Top-Draw mode and land Tutors become much less effective.
So I either need to get some late game material or make sure I do not end up there.
Here is the plan for the next iteration:
Replacing Path to Exile by Declaration in Stone.
Instant speed is nice, but the deck is used to Pyroclasm's speed and Declaration has a nice trade off: Sure you can't clear all the board, but you can hit Multiple Goyfs, Nactl, Merfolk Lords, Whatever main threat Affinity has, etc. Also with Thopter/Sword being a thing you want to clear multiple tokens. Gonna run 3~4, replacing any freed slot by another Conduit of Ruin.
Going to cut one Expedition Map and one Sylvan Scrying. For the replacement I'm thinking about either Oath of Nissa or I'm really tempted to give Time of Need a shot. It is more narrow but perfectly fills the job as a late game helper.
Sideboard wise, Rest in Peace doesn't synergize with Chromatic Star, beware.
I need to find slots for Warping Wail. Still debating Sacred Ground's numbers/use compared to Crucible of worlds.
Random Notes:
And it wasn´t..... Matter reshaper is completely irrelevant most time, and Reality Smasher is really good, but some times can´t finish the job...
so...
-4 Matter Reshaper
-4 Reality Smasher
+3 Conduit of Ruin
+1 Newlamog
+2 oblivion sower
+2 world break
the deck ends like this
3x Conduit of Ruin
2x Oblivion Sower
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2x World Breaker
4x Chromatic Sphere
4x Chromatic Star
4x Expedition Map
3x Oblivion Stone
4x Forest
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Sylvan Scrying
3x Karn Liberated
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Ghost Quarter
4x Nature's Claim
4x Spellskite
1x Thragtusk
2x Warping Wail
2x Wurmcoil Engine
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Forest
Tutors and Color Fixing
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 World Breaker
4 Karn Liberated
2 All is Dust
1 All Is Dust
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Feed the Clan
3 Nature's Claim
1 Ruin Processor
3 Spellskite
3 Warping Wail
I have collected data from 50 games of this deck; although this won't give us much information on specific matchups, this may be useful in helping determining how effective this deck is against each archetype.
Winrates
Aggro: 62.5%
Combo: 75%
Control: 88.88%
Midrange: 85.71%
Overall: 74.5%
Things to note from the data.
1. This deck is as effective against blue control decks as planned. The deck has a 100% winrate against blue control deck variants. The only loss against a control deck was against skred. I do not believe that we will have a problem against control decks without eye of ugin. Being able to generate card advantage every time one casts an eldrazi has proven to be very effective against control.
2. This deck has a 100% winrate against thopter combo/tezzeret control variants. If either of these decks become popular, Mono Green eldrazi tron will be a very strong meta choice. The reason for this deck's sucess against these strategies is likely due to the abundance of artifact hate in both the mainboard and the sideboard.
3. This deck was oddly effective against combo, being able to defeat eggs and storm. I am uncertain however of how representative of the actual matchup this data is as combo was the least face archetype. (I should note that I consider infect aggro similar to burn.) The reason for this decks success against these two combo decks was due to the abundance of artifact hate against eggs and worldbreaker against storm's enchantment.
4. The only match losses were against burn, infect, grishoalbrand, and skred. Burn and infect may be problematic matchups due to their speed and consistency. Thought knot makes the infect matchup more tolerable, but I would recommend dedicating sideboard slots to both of these matchups.
5. This deck had the lowest matchup by far against aggro decks and although the matchup was still positive overall, this may change as more data is collected. The likely reason for this discrepancy is due to the lack of early game interaction the deck has against fast aggro variants. The most effective strategy against aggro is either to get a turn 2 thought knot seer or turn 3 tron with either all is dust or conduit into worldbreaker (or ulamog if you have another tower).
Overall, the data seems promising for this deck. I could see it becoming very relevant if thopter variants become tier 1 as well as if ancestral visions is enough to make blue control more popular. I am unsure how blue control can beat this deck at the moment without a mulligan to four. Further testing is needed however to both determine if this data is representative and to determine individual matchups.
I'll do some testing with that mainboard but a modified sideboard. Also, if we're running two Feed the Clan, is the Ruin Processor necessary?
Modern: XAffinity GBXLantern Control
Legacy: UOmnitell RBurn
I tested more by replacing the Eye slot with Sanctum of Ugin, Sea-Gate Wreckage, and Emrakul:
-Emrakul without the ability to directly tutor for it was just too random to be consistent; it's just too much of a wild card. I either drew it sooner than I would have liked, or it never came (even after digging and more than a dozen turns in at least one case). I've won so much off of the back of that card over the years, so this is tough to say, but I don't think it will ever be good enough without something closer to Eye.
-Speaking of which, Sanctum of Ugin performed absolutely miserably for me, at least as a singleton. There were just too many times where I'd hit it, and then never have or get the right card to trigger it.
-After testing Sea-Gate Wreckage again, I noticed there are a lot of subtle ways we can make it work for us. The two main things are to Karn your own hand if your opponent doesn't have a better target, and that Sylvan Scrying can be cast without finding anything if it comes to it. With Ulamog at the top of the curve (and no need to have Eye mana waiting), anything over ten mana tends to be overkill. I had a game earlier where I Karned an extra Grove out of my hand, played Scrying finding nothing, dropped a Power Plant, drew off of Sea-Gate, and was able to just barely drop Ulamog on the same turn.
I can't see myself switching enough of the deck around to accommodate Academy Ruins and Yavimaya Coast/Breeding Pool, as this just doesn't feel effective enough at generating a threat presence against enough of the field. O-Stones don't stop everything, and Wurmcoil is usually getting exiled to cause me problems. So, for now at least, I'm sticking with Sea-Gate Wreckage. Once I practiced working with it, the long games got a bit better. Nothing will replace Eye, but SGW is the best thing I've used instead.
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
I have been liking Oath, still haven't traded for the PW's I was thinking about getting really greedy, 2 each Garruk and Bolas, and a few TKS, probably the full 4, move the Stones to the SB, really maximize the late game. I need to test a bit to see if that would be too ambitious
Ill consider testing ghost quarters. At the moment, I would say yes to the Ruin Processor for two reasons; first because burn is one of the worst matchups for the deck and two, it can be used as a one of to be fetched by conduit against aggro decks in general replacing the kozilek. It also has niche uses against ancestral visions.
I am relatively new to Modern (and Magic in general), and after reviewing some of the popular deck archetypes, I think I am liking GR Tron a lot. At the same time, the recent banning of Eye of Ugin as I understand will have impact on the deck. Coincidentally, someone is selling this deck for $200 on Craigslist.
My questions:
- Can I use the deck reference above as a starting point of my Tron? Is it playable without modifications? (If not, is it playable after adding two missing Karns?)
- Is $200 a good price for that deck?
GR Tron - hardcasting Emrakuls and playing Forest in the sideboard
URB Grixis Delver - Bolt-Snap-Bolt
This list doesn't seem worth it. You still need to invest a lot more into the deck to make it viable.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
4 Chromatic Star
3 Expedition Map
3 Oblivion Stone
2 COnduit of Ruin
2 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Ulamog, the ceaseless Hunger
2 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Pyroclasm
4 Sylvan Scrying
1 Life from the Loam
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Emrakul, the aeons Torn
2 Spellskite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Thragtusk
3 Nature's Claim
2 Boil
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea seems fairly odd, i realize that. However i found it pretty useful. Since Tron basically has the "best" topdecks once tron is online it's just nuts. Your opponent draws what? A bird? A Lord? A Cantrip? We get Karn, Ugin, Ulamog, Wurmcoil, O-Stone. Or Cantrips to dig even further. I really like the card. I am currently considering to take out 1 Temple for a 2nd Forest and somehow jam in the third wurmcoil or an Endbringer
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
Been doing a lot of testing on a deck list similar to this. My deck emphasizes eldrazi more than yours though and goes mono green so it is more consistent. I am unsure if it is worth it to splash into red with the eldrazi list as while you get pyroclasm and some sideboard tech, it seems to make your colors much less consistent and still seems as threat light as a regular GR tron list. I would recommend dropping wurmcoil and oblivion stones, wurmcoils, and ugin from this list for the following reasons: wurmcoil can't be cast effectively off of eldrazi temples meaning it is much slower than eldrazi are and fails to get any immediate value making it much weaker to control and midrange now that eye of ugin is gone. I may consider testing wurmcoil as sideboard tech against burn but it may be too slow still. Oblivion stone is anti synergy with your eldrazi when compared to cards like all is dust which can be both cast off of eldrazi temple and doesn't hit any of your permanents bar thragtusk. Ugin is slower in the eldrazi deck and doesn't provide enough value when compared to karn to justify using and it isn't as fast as all is dust when it comes to board wipes. Basically the overall suggestion I have is to go all in with the eldrazi plan, as only going half way doesn't seem consistent enough. I'd also consider playing 3-4 forests to ensure your opponents ghost quarters and path to exiles don't get more value than they should.
Here is my deck list for reference.
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Forest
Tutors and Color Fixing
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 World Breaker
4 Karn Liberated
2 All is Dust
1 All Is Dust
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Feed the Clan
3 Nature's Claim
1 Ruin Processor
3 Spellskite
3 Warping Wail
All my control matches were an easy win but the aggro matches (especially naya burn) were overwhelming even with tron turn 3 or TKS turn 2. I think i have to get a better side.
AS my first matches were agro i was kinda disapointed with the deck, but as i have diferent matches the deck became really strong, even with the new control brews
How have those differences worked for you? Oblivion stone was something that seemed worse than All is Dust to me and Oblivion Sower was something someone else and I determined to be win more. Haven't tested ugin but I didn't think it would be worth while over karn or all is dust. How did those cards work out in testing? Did they seem effective or were they too weak?
As for burn, it certainly seems like a bad matchup; if nothing else works, perhaps wurmcoil in the sideboard would be effective against these decks. While I was dissapointed with wurmcoil against midrange, combo, and control since the eye of ugin ban, it might be worthwhile against aggro even with eldrazi temples.
I'm not sure why you say it's not worth it - even with investing more, all the cards of value (ones that are > $2-3) from this list are still relevant to Tron (with exception of Melira, Sylvok Outcast). I thought this would be buying the meat of the deck with a discount..
The guy is throwing it in for free.
I'd be happy to buy Wurmcoil Engine for $12 if you know a place
Sure, but the way I see it, I'm paying virtually nothing for the useless bulk and getting a 25% discount on 2x Karns and Emmy..
GR Tron - hardcasting Emrakuls and playing Forest in the sideboard
URB Grixis Delver - Bolt-Snap-Bolt
Looking at Dizdo's list, which looks very solid, I am particularly intrigued by the prospect of splashing some white for Displacer in the MD and some good anti-aggro SB cards. There is quite a bit of Affinity and Boggles in my meta, so W provides Paraselene and Stony Silence, not to mention Path to Exile.
The concern I would have off the top though, is that the list looks like it's primary strength is its consistency. Would these changes wreck that? Thoughts?
I'd also love some more context around the results posted yesterday. You demonstrated a very solid performance against all the major archetypes, including aggro, which was always a challenge for GR Tron. I would have thought that would be more difficult so I'd love to know what crs were good and why, what kind of starts your opponents/testing partners had, etc.
Thanks.
/M
To be entirely honest, I did not expect this list to do as well as it did against the aggro matchup. The aggro matchups I won were slower aggro variants like zoo, eldrazi, delver variants, and soul sister. From the look of the data I would say that it is possible that the number of delver matchups I had inflated this winrate. Worldbreaker seems responsible for the improvements in that matchup due to the fact that it can both block delver and removes their land; it was a very powerful tool in stabilizing against delver decks and it didn't seem like the opponent could do anything about it. Although during this data collection I did not face affinity, I found that when playing against affinity Worldbreaker would often win the game as it would both destroy affinities biggest threat and block anything in their deck. I would say the edition of Thought-Knot Seer is also responsible for this decks success against aggro as I could play it consistently on turn 3 even without tron and it would take their game ending threat and give a big body they couldn't attack through.
I still need to collect more data on the aggro and combo matchups to ensure that the data I collected here is representative. I still believe burn and infect to be bad matchups and the aggro number may go down as I face more of those decks, although my games with infect always seemed close. From the 50 games I played, control seemed to be far more common than any other archetype, I am unsure if this is due to people testing out the unbanned decks or if it is a sign of the new meta.
You are correct about this decks strength; even without a tron opener you can still consistently cast your threats by turn 4 and I believe splashing white may make the deck less consistent. I would argue that the deck has enough tools to handle affinity due to it having 8 artifact hate cards in the mainboard and sideboard and that this matchup isn't that bad for this deck. Although I would still need to collect more data to show that. I believe that All is Dust and WorldBreaker are enough against boogles as the former destroys every enchantment the boogle player has and the latter can destroy a key enchantment and act as a blocker.
The winners against aggro were Thought Knot Seer, Worldbreaker, and All is Dust. I believe the only aggro matchup these three don't win is burn (I believe infect is winnable with this deck.) I believe the biggest challenge for this deck is finding a way to make the burn matchup more even.