I've never played against bug so yesterday I got beaten 2-1. I'm so used to jund and grixis and it is kind of a mixture to me. My question is do I side out all my karns or keep half of them in? Its like he can be good or bad because he can take care of goyf and liliana but he can get remanded. Is ugin good in this matchup? I know all relics and thragtusks get sided in but would boil be good? Goyf and tasigur combined with snapcaster is just too nasty lol
On the topic of boil, and to reply to a couple of recent posts:
Boil has won me more games than any other sideboard card. Nothing else has been so much of an "I win" card against a variety of blue decks (known and unknown) at FNM. All sorts of tier 2/3/4 decks run heavy blue and have wombo combos. I've beaten twin players so many times by responding to their turn 3/4 exarch with Boil, it's not even funny. They just don't expect it! The matchups where it comes in are more frequent than you'd imagine, and I've never had an FNM with Tron where I didn't board them in at least once.
As long as I have tron built, I'll have 3 boil in the sideboard. Nothing else has come close to its effectiveness in single handedly winning games which could have gone long, gone to time, ended up in their favour or whatever. It's a true gem.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
What do you play for tutorable creatures? Just Newlamog and Emmy?
Yes, just those two.
No, you can tutor with Eye of Ugin to get any colorless creature. You can tutor for Emrakul, Wurmcoil, Spellskite, or Newlamog, any colorless creature.
No, you can tutor with Eye of Ugin to get any colorless creature. You can tutor for Emrakul, Wurmcoil, Spellskite, or Newlamog, any colorless creature.
Just checking in, i haven't been able to play at all ofr the past couple of weeks and it kinda sucks.
Kinda felt a small need of posting my list and see what you guys think about it because maaaaybe this week im gonna be able to play some magic for once.
This is the list im rocking atm.
I've added 1 Newlamog to the sideboard against the potential scapeshift/combo deck, maybe i could cut 1 karn in the Twin matchup and replace him with Newlamog? Boil is thill there because it has won me ALOT of games.
But i dunno, it feels odd to go down to 2 Rending Volleys, maybe i should just cut 1 of my relics from the sideboard?
Been a while since i tinkered with the deck.
What do you guys think?
We're running the same main deck list As far as the sideboard, where you have one each of Boil, Crucible of Worlds, Feed the Clan, and Life from the Loam, I just pack pairs of Feed the Clan and Spellskite. Why?
Simply put, Feed the Clan is an out to Burn, and sometimes decks that go off to take out your life total (like Storm or Scapeshift). These can switch to Thragtusks in metas where Zoo and Merfolk are more common. Spellskite is just so good against so many decks that can take us out before we establish ourselves that I run the full grip. Every time I see a GR Tron player post a report about losing to Infect, for example, the first thing I do is inspect that list for the full sets of Skite and Pyroclasm.
Crucible and Loam are decent to have when we need to keep afloat against decks that attack our mana base. They are also solid against the mirror, Bloom, and anything with manlands (espcially Inkmoths). That said, I like the other tools we already have, and I don't see enough of the mirror here to warrant them.
If I were to cut anything for more copies of Rending Volley (I only play two because I run no fewer than three Skites in my 75), I'd cut single copies of Skite, Relic, or even Newlamog to fit them in; same goes for making room for Boil/Crucible/Loam. Some cut the O-Stone count down to three; since so many matches depend on cracking one to survive, I still prefer the full grip. This might be an area to experiment with, though.
I've also seen some lists swap the fourth Grove for a second Forest; since we have so many red sources (especially with Blood Moon brought in so often to slow us down), it's nice to have another basic to search for. I'm only running six red spells total in my 75, so I'm giving this some serious thought, and will probably test it soon.
What do you play for tutorable creatures? Just Newlamog and Emmy?
Yes, just those two.
No, you can tutor with Eye of Ugin to get any colorless creature. You can tutor for Emrakul, Wurmcoil, Spellskite, or Newlamog, any colorless creature.
Boil is great against any Island-heavy deck. Especially in an unknown meta, where you won't expect Slaughter Games to be usefull, I'd always pack 3-4 Boil.
Delver decks, Geist of Saint traft decks, Fairies, any Twin variant, Scapeshift, UWx control etc pp.
Boil brought me to Day 2 on a GP, though being lucky once against Burn.
And you can cast it without Tron far sooner than Newlamog.
Boil tends to run between worthless and win-more for me in most of the match-ups you've mentioned.
-Against Twin, Rending Volley is a much better choice, along with Skites for backup. If I'm bringing anything else in against them, it's Nature's Claim, as it can remove Twin, Moon, and gain us life back if they go for their tempo plan. At least with Claim, there's a chance it will be relevant if they attempt to go off early (their best way of beating us).
-Geist decks are decks we naturally beat unless they can stick and defend him early, so our regular sweepers tend to be better here.
-It's often good against Faeries, but that deck is very rare, and at least Oblivion Stone is still great in that match.
-UW control is something we naturally prey on; why do we need Boil here? Newlamog and Emrakul are amazing against them.
-Of all the decks you listed, Scapeshift is the one for sure where Boil is a great card to replace dead ones. That said, there's still the chance they will counter it; with Newlamog, he sets them back regardless, and he fits into our shell much more organically. He's also much better in other matches, and Scapeshift is also not terribly common anymore.
I had run Boil for a long time; it feels great to take your blue-playing opponent out of the game at end of turn, or in response to something (especially Blood Moon). I just don't think the blue decks that truly beat us (which are few) require such a specific silver bullet, instead of other very powerful and generally useful ones. Once Newlamog arrived, I pulled all of the Boils for other things, and I can't remember the last time I lost to Scapeshift or a game against Twin that went long.
My point about Boil is that you can cast it without Tron assembled, which was often very relevant to me. Ulamog would require 9-10 lands in play, and you would tap out.
Though you summed up some MUs, I cannot see anywhere a real reason to run Newlamog above Boil in my SB, especially because of the CC.
Eye of ugin is def more versatile the tutor, even getting conduit (I think). But yeah, I use conduit to tutor almost always for newlamog. Not only do, I get the eldrazi but also a 5/5 on board.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
I've added 1 Newlamog to the sideboard against the potential scapeshift/combo deck, maybe i could cut 1 karn in the Twin matchup and replace him with Newlamog?
There is something really appealing to me about having a 2nd Ulamog in the SB. Let's explore the concept a bit.
The first questions that come to mind are:
1) When would you bring it in?
2) is it better than a single copy of Crumble to Dust?
Obviously, Scapeshift is a huge target, which is where the Crumble to Dust thought comes from. A properly timed and targeted Crumble can remove 1 mountain (typically steam vents or stomping ground) from the board and 3 from the library, significantly reducing their ability to cast scapeshift for big damage.
Ulamog can of course remove 2 lands from play, and it brings the ability to target non-lands as well. Is 10 mana (typically turn 5 or later) too slow to be effective though?
Same deal with the Tron mirror. Crumble can completely remove one of the tron pieces from your opponent's deck where Ulamog can set them back 2 complete lands, which is utterly huge.
I've added 1 Newlamog to the sideboard against the potential scapeshift/combo deck, maybe i could cut 1 karn in the Twin matchup and replace him with Newlamog?
There is something really appealing to me about having a 2nd Ulamog in the SB. Let's explore the concept a bit.
The first questions that come to mind are:
1) When would you bring it in?
2) is it better than a single copy of Crumble to Dust?
Obviously, Scapeshift is a huge target, which is where the Crumble to Dust thought comes from. A properly timed and targeted Crumble can remove 1 mountain (typically steam vents or stomping ground) from the board and 3 from the library, significantly reducing their ability to cast scapeshift for big damage.
Ulamog can of course remove 2 lands from play, and it brings the ability to target non-lands as well. Is 10 mana (typically turn 5 or later) too slow to be effective though?
Same deal with the Tron mirror. Crumble can completely remove one of the tron pieces from your opponent's deck where Ulamog can set them back 2 complete lands, which is utterly huge.
Crumble is too specific, i guess it could help in the Infect matches but it feels kinda slow, that's why i run 2 Ghost Quarters.
Oh yeah about the Newlamog part, most Scapeshift decks i've faced plays the full grip of Remand, if they remand my Newlamog i get to nuke 2 additional lands next turn!
Im not scared about the Tron mirror, we've barerly got any tron players so, but i do have to think about in which matchup newlamog gets to shine in, The ones im thinking of atm is Twin, Scapeshift (i've recently gotten out of bed) and some control matchups (even tho we have a somewhat strong game against them already).
Oh it doesen't hurt that i've managed to get a Japanese Newlamog, looks kinda sick
Just checking in, i haven't been able to play at all ofr the past couple of weeks and it kinda sucks.
Kinda felt a small need of posting my list and see what you guys think about it because maaaaybe this week im gonna be able to play some magic for once.
This is the list im rocking atm.
I've added 1 Newlamog to the sideboard against the potential scapeshift/combo deck, maybe i could cut 1 karn in the Twin matchup and replace him with Newlamog? Boil is thill there because it has won me ALOT of games.
But i dunno, it feels odd to go down to 2 Rending Volleys, maybe i should just cut 1 of my relics from the sideboard?
Been a while since i tinkered with the deck.
What do you guys think?
We're running the same main deck list As far as the sideboard, where you have one each of Boil, Crucible of Worlds, Feed the Clan, and Life from the Loam, I just pack pairs of Feed the Clan and Spellskite. Why?
Simply put, Feed the Clan is an out to Burn, and sometimes decks that go off to take out your life total (like Storm or Scapeshift). These can switch to Thragtusks in metas where Zoo and Merfolk are more common. Spellskite is just so good against so many decks that can take us out before we establish ourselves that I run the full grip. Every time I see a GR Tron player post a report about losing to Infect, for example, the first thing I do is inspect that list for the full sets of Skite and Pyroclasm.
Crucible and Loam are decent to have when we need to keep afloat against decks that attack our mana base. They are also solid against the mirror, Bloom, and anything with manlands (espcially Inkmoths). That said, I like the other tools we already have, and I don't see enough of the mirror here to warrant them.
If I were to cut anything for more copies of Rending Volley (I only play two because I run no fewer than three Skites in my 75), I'd cut single copies of Skite, Relic, or even Newlamog to fit them in; same goes for making room for Boil/Crucible/Loam. Some cut the O-Stone count down to three; since so many matches depend on cracking one to survive, I still prefer the full grip. This might be an area to experiment with, though.
I've also seen some lists swap the fourth Grove for a second Forest; since we have so many red sources (especially with Blood Moon brought in so often to slow us down), it's nice to have another basic to search for. I'm only running six red spells total in my 75, so I'm giving this some serious thought, and will probably test it soon.
"We're running the same main deck list As far as the sideboard, where you have one each of Boil, Crucible of Worlds, Feed the Clan, and Life from the Loam, I just pack pairs of Feed the Clan and Spellskite. Why?"
I think we've have the same 60 mainstock for a while now if my memory does not fail me. You agreeded with me about the 2 Pyros main and 2 in the Sideboard since they often turned into dead draws later on.
The reason my sideboard look the way it does its because i do not have access to all the cards i would like to. I would love to have an additional 2 Spellskites but then again, my meta has almost no infect players, there's like 1 or 2 (in 2 metas in total, so 1 for each).
The 1 off Boil is a card i do enjoy, it baits counters from twin or it can just devestate them if they fetch in the wrong order.
Here is where Newlamog would see play, against the twin deck + scapeshift or other somewhat permanentbased decks, maybe even storm if they can't set it up fast enough.
"Crucible and Loam are decent to have when we need to keep afloat against decks that attack our mana base. They are also solid against the mirror, Bloom, and anything with manlands (espcially Inkmoths). That said, I like the other tools we already have, and I don't see enough of the mirror here to warrant them"
In the past i've just had to run these cards, there were so many Kolaghan's Command decks / Fulminator Mage users/abusers.
If i managed to find the Loam/Crucible they usually helped me out a fair bit, it made my opponents keep trying to loop/use up their Fulminators.
There's like only me that plays tron, but suddenly 1 dude in our meta has started to pick it up, he still lacks alot of the cards.
"If I were to cut anything for more copies of Rending Volley (I only play two because I run no fewer than three Skites in my 75), I'd cut single copies of Skite, Relic, or even Newlamog to fit them in; same goes for making room for Boil/Crucible/Loam. Some cut the O-Stone count down to three; since so many matches depend on cracking one to survive, I still prefer the full grip. This might be an area to experiment with, though."
Are you talking about your own list? The reason i've put another Newlamog in my 75 its because i've wanted to see how it could perform in certain matchups. In the Twin mirror i would love to swap him out for a Karn or the like, if i can stall the game enough i could snag a few of his important sources. Focus on surviving skites and claims, your 2 Newlamogs + Emrakul will do the trick (atleas that's the plan!"
I've added 1 Newlamog to the sideboard against the potential scapeshift/combo deck, maybe i could cut 1 karn in the Twin matchup and replace him with Newlamog?
There is something really appealing to me about having a 2nd Ulamog in the SB. Let's explore the concept a bit.
The first questions that come to mind are:
1) When would you bring it in?
2) is it better than a single copy of Crumble to Dust?
Obviously, Scapeshift is a huge target, which is where the Crumble to Dust thought comes from. A properly timed and targeted Crumble can remove 1 mountain (typically steam vents or stomping ground) from the board and 3 from the library, significantly reducing their ability to cast scapeshift for big damage.
Ulamog can of course remove 2 lands from play, and it brings the ability to target non-lands as well. Is 10 mana (typically turn 5 or later) too slow to be effective though?
Same deal with the Tron mirror. Crumble can completely remove one of the tron pieces from your opponent's deck where Ulamog can set them back 2 complete lands, which is utterly huge.
Crumble is too specific, i guess it could help in the Infect matches but it feels kinda slow, that's why i run 2 Ghost Quarters.
Oh yeah about the Newlamog part, most Scapeshift decks i've faced plays the full grip of Remand, if they remand my Newlamog i get to nuke 2 additional lands next turn!
Im not scared about the Tron mirror, we've barerly got any tron players so, but i do have to think about in which matchup newlamog gets to shine in, The ones im thinking of atm is Twin, Scapeshift (i've recently gotten out of bed) and some control matchups (even tho we have a somewhat strong game against them already).
Oh it doesen't hurt that i've managed to get a Japanese Newlamog, looks kinda sick
Just checking in, i haven't been able to play at all ofr the past couple of weeks and it kinda sucks.
Kinda felt a small need of posting my list and see what you guys think about it because maaaaybe this week im gonna be able to play some magic for once.
This is the list im rocking atm.
I've added 1 Newlamog to the sideboard against the potential scapeshift/combo deck, maybe i could cut 1 karn in the Twin matchup and replace him with Newlamog? Boil is thill there because it has won me ALOT of games.
But i dunno, it feels odd to go down to 2 Rending Volleys, maybe i should just cut 1 of my relics from the sideboard?
Been a while since i tinkered with the deck.
What do you guys think?
We're running the same main deck list As far as the sideboard, where you have one each of Boil, Crucible of Worlds, Feed the Clan, and Life from the Loam, I just pack pairs of Feed the Clan and Spellskite. Why?
Simply put, Feed the Clan is an out to Burn, and sometimes decks that go off to take out your life total (like Storm or Scapeshift). These can switch to Thragtusks in metas where Zoo and Merfolk are more common. Spellskite is just so good against so many decks that can take us out before we establish ourselves that I run the full grip. Every time I see a GR Tron player post a report about losing to Infect, for example, the first thing I do is inspect that list for the full sets of Skite and Pyroclasm.
Crucible and Loam are decent to have when we need to keep afloat against decks that attack our mana base. They are also solid against the mirror, Bloom, and anything with manlands (espcially Inkmoths). That said, I like the other tools we already have, and I don't see enough of the mirror here to warrant them.
If I were to cut anything for more copies of Rending Volley (I only play two because I run no fewer than three Skites in my 75), I'd cut single copies of Skite, Relic, or even Newlamog to fit them in; same goes for making room for Boil/Crucible/Loam. Some cut the O-Stone count down to three; since so many matches depend on cracking one to survive, I still prefer the full grip. This might be an area to experiment with, though.
I've also seen some lists swap the fourth Grove for a second Forest; since we have so many red sources (especially with Blood Moon brought in so often to slow us down), it's nice to have another basic to search for. I'm only running six red spells total in my 75, so I'm giving this some serious thought, and will probably test it soon.
"We're running the same main deck list As far as the sideboard, where you have one each of Boil, Crucible of Worlds, Feed the Clan, and Life from the Loam, I just pack pairs of Feed the Clan and Spellskite. Why?"
I think we've have the same 60 mainstock for a while now if my memory does not fail me. You agreeded with me about the 2 Pyros main and 2 in the Sideboard since they often turned into dead draws later on.
The reason my sideboard look the way it does its because i do not have access to all the cards i would like to. I would love to have an additional 2 Spellskites but then again, my meta has almost no infect players, there's like 1 or 2 (in 2 metas in total, so 1 for each).
The 1 off Boil is a card i do enjoy, it baits counters from twin or it can just devestate them if they fetch in the wrong order.
Here is where Newlamog would see play, against the twin deck + scapeshift or other somewhat permanentbased decks, maybe even storm if they can't set it up fast enough.
"Crucible and Loam are decent to have when we need to keep afloat against decks that attack our mana base. They are also solid against the mirror, Bloom, and anything with manlands (espcially Inkmoths). That said, I like the other tools we already have, and I don't see enough of the mirror here to warrant them"
In the past i've just had to run these cards, there were so many Kolaghan's Command decks / Fulminator Mage users/abusers.
If i managed to find the Loam/Crucible they usually helped me out a fair bit, it made my opponents keep trying to loop/use up their Fulminators.
There's like only me that plays tron, but suddenly 1 dude in our meta has started to pick it up, he still lacks alot of the cards.
"If I were to cut anything for more copies of Rending Volley (I only play two because I run no fewer than three Skites in my 75), I'd cut single copies of Skite, Relic, or even Newlamog to fit them in; same goes for making room for Boil/Crucible/Loam. Some cut the O-Stone count down to three; since so many matches depend on cracking one to survive, I still prefer the full grip. This might be an area to experiment with, though."
Are you talking about your own list? The reason i've put another Newlamog in my 75 its because i've wanted to see how it could perform in certain matchups. In the Twin mirror i would love to swap him out for a Karn or the like, if i can stall the game enough i could snag a few of his important sources. Focus on surviving skites and claims, your 2 Newlamogs + Emrakul will do the trick (atleas that's the plan!"
In my testing with Crucible I felt that it's too fragile, then I add the 3rd copy of Ghost Quarter in the SB, and it works better against Titan Bloom, in a little test, I won 4-3 with the Quarter(3 post board), furthermore GQ is more tutoreable: 4 Stirrings, 4 Maps, 4 Sylvan; unlike the Crucible only is tutoreable by Stirrings
So it looks from the spoilers that Newzilek can be casted with the mana we get from Tron. Do we want him? Having the ability to counter stuff may be interesting.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
So it looks from the spoilers that Newzilek can be casted with the mana we get from Tron. Do we want him? Having the ability to counter stuff may be interesting.
What are you going to remove to fit two Wastes in to your mana base? I don't think the new Kozilek is going to make the cut considering you need to assemble tron, another land, and have two Wastes on the board to cast him.
So it looks from the spoilers that Newzilek can be casted with the mana we get from Tron. Do we want him? Having the ability to counter stuff may be interesting.
What are you going to remove to fit two Wastes in to your mana base? I don't think the new Kozilek is going to make the cut considering you need to assemble tron, another land, and have two Wastes on the board to cast him.
It's looking like the wastes symbol simply means colorless (vs generic) according to the yet to be confirmed spoiler here:
I don't get how some people are so thickheaded, i've had to explain how it would work so many times.
Would definetly fix a few things, not all decks could play cards in the same powerlevel as por ejemplo: Jitte, Batterskull etc. WoTC won't change
any artifact / colorless manacost before oath to <>, its too much of an effort, but why not implement the
new colorless mana into the game? Now is a good starting point.
I do hope this won't be unique to Oath, i usually only play colorless decks.
So it looks from the spoilers that Newzilek can be casted with the mana we get from Tron. Do we want him? Having the ability to counter stuff may be interesting.
What are you going to remove to fit two Wastes in to your mana base? I don't think the new Kozilek is going to make the cut considering you need to assemble tron, another land, and have two Wastes on the board to cast him.
It's looking like the wastes symbol simply means colorless (vs generic) according to the yet to be confirmed spoiler here:
So it looks from the spoilers that Newzilek can be casted with the mana we get from Tron. Do we want him? Having the ability to counter stuff may be interesting.
I remember posting Newzilek test results--I think in this thread! He's at his best in Conduit of Ruin builds (such as mine and seemingly at least half the MTGO Modern League lists) as a primarily anti-Burn target that sucks less than Platinum Emperion against combo and midrange. (I don't know how none of the MTGO League Conduit lists run an anti-Burn Conduit tutor target.)
In typical Wurmcoil lists, I think Newzilek is fairly shaky. He hoses Burn half a turn earlier than late Wurmcoil does (Wurmcoil only hoses once it connects with Lifelink) and gives Burn fewer outs (the first 2-cmc spell often gets countered, so do the first two 1-cmc spells, Newzilek needs to be dealt with by board presence or Rift Bolt, while Wurmcoil lets Burn untap with more spells in hand and can be dealt with for a crucial turn by Skullcrack, Atarka's Command, or Destructive Revelry), and he conditionally hoses some combo decks harder than Newlamog does (for example, Newzilek uncounterably hoses Ad Nauseam's Lightning Storm if I have O. Stone in hand, and it/he basically doesn't die to Ad Nauseam's Slaughter Pact). But drawing 3 cards on average is surprisingly useless, and he's pretty profitable to Remand compared to Old Kozilek.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Have any questions or concerns? Come take a dip in my pool.
Boil has won me more games than any other sideboard card. Nothing else has been so much of an "I win" card against a variety of blue decks (known and unknown) at FNM. All sorts of tier 2/3/4 decks run heavy blue and have wombo combos. I've beaten twin players so many times by responding to their turn 3/4 exarch with Boil, it's not even funny. They just don't expect it! The matchups where it comes in are more frequent than you'd imagine, and I've never had an FNM with Tron where I didn't board them in at least once.
As long as I have tron built, I'll have 3 boil in the sideboard. Nothing else has come close to its effectiveness in single handedly winning games which could have gone long, gone to time, ended up in their favour or whatever. It's a true gem.
Yes, just those two.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
No, you can tutor with Eye of Ugin to get any colorless creature. You can tutor for Emrakul, Wurmcoil, Spellskite, or Newlamog, any colorless creature.
They were talking about Conduit of Ruin
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
We're running the same main deck list As far as the sideboard, where you have one each of Boil, Crucible of Worlds, Feed the Clan, and Life from the Loam, I just pack pairs of Feed the Clan and Spellskite. Why?
Simply put, Feed the Clan is an out to Burn, and sometimes decks that go off to take out your life total (like Storm or Scapeshift). These can switch to Thragtusks in metas where Zoo and Merfolk are more common. Spellskite is just so good against so many decks that can take us out before we establish ourselves that I run the full grip. Every time I see a GR Tron player post a report about losing to Infect, for example, the first thing I do is inspect that list for the full sets of Skite and Pyroclasm.
Crucible and Loam are decent to have when we need to keep afloat against decks that attack our mana base. They are also solid against the mirror, Bloom, and anything with manlands (espcially Inkmoths). That said, I like the other tools we already have, and I don't see enough of the mirror here to warrant them.
If I were to cut anything for more copies of Rending Volley (I only play two because I run no fewer than three Skites in my 75), I'd cut single copies of Skite, Relic, or even Newlamog to fit them in; same goes for making room for Boil/Crucible/Loam. Some cut the O-Stone count down to three; since so many matches depend on cracking one to survive, I still prefer the full grip. This might be an area to experiment with, though.
I've also seen some lists swap the fourth Grove for a second Forest; since we have so many red sources (especially with Blood Moon brought in so often to slow us down), it's nice to have another basic to search for. I'm only running six red spells total in my 75, so I'm giving this some serious thought, and will probably test it soon.
He meant tutoring via Conduit of Ruin.
My point about Boil is that you can cast it without Tron assembled, which was often very relevant to me. Ulamog would require 9-10 lands in play, and you would tap out.
Though you summed up some MUs, I cannot see anywhere a real reason to run Newlamog above Boil in my SB, especially because of the CC.
Greetings
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
There is something really appealing to me about having a 2nd Ulamog in the SB. Let's explore the concept a bit.
The first questions that come to mind are:
1) When would you bring it in?
2) is it better than a single copy of Crumble to Dust?
Obviously, Scapeshift is a huge target, which is where the Crumble to Dust thought comes from. A properly timed and targeted Crumble can remove 1 mountain (typically steam vents or stomping ground) from the board and 3 from the library, significantly reducing their ability to cast scapeshift for big damage.
Ulamog can of course remove 2 lands from play, and it brings the ability to target non-lands as well. Is 10 mana (typically turn 5 or later) too slow to be effective though?
Same deal with the Tron mirror. Crumble can completely remove one of the tron pieces from your opponent's deck where Ulamog can set them back 2 complete lands, which is utterly huge.
Crumble is too specific, i guess it could help in the Infect matches but it feels kinda slow, that's why i run 2 Ghost Quarters.
Oh yeah about the Newlamog part, most Scapeshift decks i've faced plays the full grip of Remand, if they remand my Newlamog i get to nuke 2 additional lands next turn!
Im not scared about the Tron mirror, we've barerly got any tron players so, but i do have to think about in which matchup newlamog gets to shine in, The ones im thinking of atm is Twin, Scapeshift (i've recently gotten out of bed) and some control matchups (even tho we have a somewhat strong game against them already).
Oh it doesen't hurt that i've managed to get a Japanese Newlamog, looks kinda sick
"We're running the same main deck list As far as the sideboard, where you have one each of Boil, Crucible of Worlds, Feed the Clan, and Life from the Loam, I just pack pairs of Feed the Clan and Spellskite. Why?"
I think we've have the same 60 mainstock for a while now if my memory does not fail me. You agreeded with me about the 2 Pyros main and 2 in the Sideboard since they often turned into dead draws later on.
The reason my sideboard look the way it does its because i do not have access to all the cards i would like to. I would love to have an additional 2 Spellskites but then again, my meta has almost no infect players, there's like 1 or 2 (in 2 metas in total, so 1 for each).
The 1 off Boil is a card i do enjoy, it baits counters from twin or it can just devestate them if they fetch in the wrong order.
Here is where Newlamog would see play, against the twin deck + scapeshift or other somewhat permanentbased decks, maybe even storm if they can't set it up fast enough.
"Crucible and Loam are decent to have when we need to keep afloat against decks that attack our mana base. They are also solid against the mirror, Bloom, and anything with manlands (espcially Inkmoths). That said, I like the other tools we already have, and I don't see enough of the mirror here to warrant them"
In the past i've just had to run these cards, there were so many Kolaghan's Command decks / Fulminator Mage users/abusers.
If i managed to find the Loam/Crucible they usually helped me out a fair bit, it made my opponents keep trying to loop/use up their Fulminators.
There's like only me that plays tron, but suddenly 1 dude in our meta has started to pick it up, he still lacks alot of the cards.
"If I were to cut anything for more copies of Rending Volley (I only play two because I run no fewer than three Skites in my 75), I'd cut single copies of Skite, Relic, or even Newlamog to fit them in; same goes for making room for Boil/Crucible/Loam. Some cut the O-Stone count down to three; since so many matches depend on cracking one to survive, I still prefer the full grip. This might be an area to experiment with, though."
Are you talking about your own list? The reason i've put another Newlamog in my 75 its because i've wanted to see how it could perform in certain matchups. In the Twin mirror i would love to swap him out for a Karn or the like, if i can stall the game enough i could snag a few of his important sources. Focus on surviving skites and claims, your 2 Newlamogs + Emrakul will do the trick (atleas that's the plan!"
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
In my testing with Crucible I felt that it's too fragile, then I add the 3rd copy of Ghost Quarter in the SB, and it works better against Titan Bloom, in a little test, I won 4-3 with the Quarter(3 post board), furthermore GQ is more tutoreable: 4 Stirrings, 4 Maps, 4 Sylvan; unlike the Crucible only is tutoreable by Stirrings
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
What are you going to remove to fit two Wastes in to your mana base? I don't think the new Kozilek is going to make the cut considering you need to assemble tron, another land, and have two Wastes on the board to cast him.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
It's looking like the wastes symbol simply means colorless (vs generic) according to the yet to be confirmed spoiler here:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/651639-filter-expeditions-mystic-gate-and-the-symbol
So numbered mana would be generic (any color or colorless) mana and wastes symbol would be colorless only.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
I don't get how some people are so thickheaded, i've had to explain how it would work so many times.
Would definetly fix a few things, not all decks could play cards in the same powerlevel as por ejemplo: Jitte, Batterskull etc. WoTC won't change
any artifact / colorless manacost before oath to <>, its too much of an effort, but why not implement the
new colorless mana into the game? Now is a good starting point.
I do hope this won't be unique to Oath, i usually only play colorless decks.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Thanks for the information! I was unaware of this.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
I remember posting Newzilek test results--I think in this thread! He's at his best in Conduit of Ruin builds (such as mine and seemingly at least half the MTGO Modern League lists) as a primarily anti-Burn target that sucks less than Platinum Emperion against combo and midrange. (I don't know how none of the MTGO League Conduit lists run an anti-Burn Conduit tutor target.)
In typical Wurmcoil lists, I think Newzilek is fairly shaky. He hoses Burn half a turn earlier than late Wurmcoil does (Wurmcoil only hoses once it connects with Lifelink) and gives Burn fewer outs (the first 2-cmc spell often gets countered, so do the first two 1-cmc spells, Newzilek needs to be dealt with by board presence or Rift Bolt, while Wurmcoil lets Burn untap with more spells in hand and can be dealt with for a crucial turn by Skullcrack, Atarka's Command, or Destructive Revelry), and he conditionally hoses some combo decks harder than Newlamog does (for example, Newzilek uncounterably hoses Ad Nauseam's Lightning Storm if I have O. Stone in hand, and it/he basically doesn't die to Ad Nauseam's Slaughter Pact). But drawing 3 cards on average is surprisingly useless, and he's pretty profitable to Remand compared to Old Kozilek.