Hey guys, I've been playing Burn for a few months on MTGO, prepping for GP Charlotte. Just a few observances-
-The UWR control match for me has been kinda tough, if only, because of their very effective counterspells, coupled with their eventual lifegain and Cellestial Colonade+Snapcaster+Lightning Helixes. I fear like my best advantage here is just drawing effectively and hoping for the best.
-HATE Shard Volley. Just never around when I want it, so I took it out completely.
-I prefer Searing Blood over Searing Blaze. I'm running 20 lands, and so they come scarcely. With smaller creatures running the format, I prefer a generally unconditional creature kill + 3 to the face rather than a 1-and-1 that Searing Blood sometimes is.
-Two Grim Lavamancer mainboard. With Lightning Bolts, Path to Exile, and Decay's everywhere, it just doesn't get around to turn 2 as often as I want. I've thought of replacing it with two Hellspark Elemental (based on what other people have said here, it looks pretty good). Immediate impact and impact later on.
Anthony Lowry just uploaded part2 of his primer at scg. What is your position on the following?
"Pick a second color, splash the third, but do not jam all three (or more) colors. Yes, having Boros Charm and Atarka's Command is great, but you will often lose the life that Atarka's Command is keeping your opponent from gaining. Remember, the biggest problem with Burn is not the lifegain hate, it's the fast clocks, and taking more damage than you need to will hurt in the long run more than the benefit of having all of these shiny spells, especially in the mirror."
I´ve been playing straight boros burn, not naya. Keeping the commands to the sideboard, it is a relief to get your first sacred foundry and be done with fetching for most game 1s. I agree with Lowry here, but Command has put the deck in an over the top fashion and you see every successful list run it lately. I have been testing it out since it came out and it is definitely a much bigger threat. Ari Lax uploaded a video at scg premium where he has commands in the main along 3 shard volleys (not a fan of this last addition 3 seems too much). There are plenty of directions one can take the archetype in, but as far as I can tell the most successful since dragons of tarkir is definitely Naya.
Wow, Ive been away for almost a year and Im thrilled to be back and seeing Burn as a Tier 1 and well represented again.
What Im noticing is the prevalence and relevance of 3 color Burn. You know I tried to read all the pages since Ive been away and after 40 pages I think Im caught up enough
For the life of me even though I do have the all lands I prefer to stay at 2 colors and have a R/B, R/W and R/G version. The R/B seems to be the stronger punishing deck but also the most vulnerable to hate cards. The R/G is the least strongest but has the best counter hate cards. The R/W version seems to have the best balance. In the past havent been able to find the right balance and consistency of 3 color. Now that Atarka's Command and Monastery Swiftspear have hit Burn by storm Ive got some really fun play testing (its always fun to play test) to do. Just when you thought there was no room for more cards in your deck, gotta figure out a new right balance of cards.
Self inflicted wound seems interesting, but the Tasigur main? Eh?
I agree : Tasigur seems too slow for me. The black splash needs efficiency, and he is not in Burn. Self Inflicted Wound is something I never saw, but it seems a decent sideboard card (maybe 4 is overkill).
I have been trying out City of Brass and have really liked it. I know it does not thin the deck but if I have a boros charm and a command in my opening hand, all I need to fetch turn 1 is a mountain to cast guide. Not sold on running 4 color burn, but city really helps to smooth out our mana base. I ran about 50 games on tappedout, keeping up with how much life was lost on mana and it was slightly less with city. Would suggest to give it a try if you are running 3 colors.
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Modern
Currently Playing UW UW Control/Miracles R Skred Red
Is there any modern mono-red burn decks or is it that mono-red don't have enough punches? I'm been thinking of trying mono-red burn... or maybe I should be looking into sligh. Thanks for any serious suggestions
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It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
I think self inflicted wound is a real beating against most of the decks right now. great stuff
You are never going to be able to pay for his activation, Why would you not run gurmag angler instead. Seems like the card you are really looking for if you want a fatty to fight goyfs. You could cut a land run an extra burn spell and swap tasigur for angler. Finally both of those are worse than grim lavamancer in a burn deck. If you want to use your graveyard for profit that is the card you need.
Is there any modern mono-red burn decks or is it that mono-red don't have enough punches? I'm been thinking of trying mono-red burn... or maybe I should be looking into sligh. Thanks for any serious suggestions
You sacrifice a lot to go monored. But there are some advantages like consistency and no self damage.
There's a lot I don't like about the list (most if the Sideboard). I'd definitely want Eidolon instead of Hellspark. But this is a good starting point.
Is there any modern mono-red burn decks or is it that mono-red don't have enough punches? I'm been thinking of trying mono-red burn... or maybe I should be looking into sligh. Thanks for any serious suggestions
You sacrifice a lot to go monored. But there are some advantages like consistency and no self damage.
There's a lot I don't like about the list (most if the Sideboard). I'd definitely want Eidolon instead of Hellspark. But this is a good starting point.
Is there any modern mono-red burn decks or is it that mono-red don't have enough punches? I'm been thinking of trying mono-red burn... or maybe I should be looking into sligh. Thanks for any serious suggestions
You sacrifice a lot to go monored. But there are some advantages like consistency and no self damage.
There's a lot I don't like about the list (most if the Sideboard). I'd definitely want Eidolon instead of Hellspark. But this is a good starting point.
First off, Smelt is infinitely better than Wear // Tear in mono red.
Next, I think the biggest advantage mono-red has in this meta is that it doesn't hurt itself with lands, and that's nothing to sneeze at. It's generally assumed that you're going to eat 3 damage from that Lightning Helix anyway, but mono-red never loses the life in the first place, or any other life from lands for that matter.
Third, I see a lot of hate for Shard Volley, and I think people have the wrong viewpoint towards it. I agree that 4 is too many, but I don't think 2 is enough. Why? You want to see it. It's a finisher, that while isn't nearly as strong as Fireblast, fills a similar role. It's the last card that leaves your hand, and to that effect it may as well be lightning bolt 5-7. I have personally won many games off the back of this card simply because it's another 1 mana instant for 3 damage.
Fourth, Hellspark is criminally underrated. This is a partial pet card for me, but when push comes to shove, I have rarely been upset to see one. It wasn't until Eidolon came around that I finally retired mine, but I still sneak them in on occasion and was glad I did. Between Atarka's Command, Dodging Eidolon, and being "uncounterable", it is pretty reliable.
If I were to run mono-red, I think I'd look like this:
Is there any modern mono-red burn decks or is it that mono-red don't have enough punches? I'm been thinking of trying mono-red burn... or maybe I should be looking into sligh. Thanks for any serious suggestions
You sacrifice a lot to go monored. But there are some advantages like consistency and no self damage.
There's a lot I don't like about the list (most if the Sideboard). I'd definitely want Eidolon instead of Hellspark. But this is a good starting point.
First off, Smelt is infinitely better than Wear // Tear in mono red.
Next, I think the biggest advantage mono-red has in this meta is that it doesn't hurt itself with lands, and that's nothing to sneeze at. It's generally assumed that you're going to eat 3 damage from that Lightning Helix anyway, but mono-red never loses the life in the first place, or any other life from lands for that matter.
Third, I see a lot of hate for Shard Volley, and I think people have the wrong viewpoint towards it. I agree that 4 is too many, but I don't think 2 is enough. Why? You want to see it. It's a finisher, that while isn't nearly as strong as Fireblast, fills a similar role. It's the last card that leaves your hand, and to that effect it may as well be lightning bolt 5-7. I have personally won many games off the back of this card simply because it's another 1 mana instant for 3 damage.
Fourth, Hellspark is criminally underrated. This is a partial pet card for me, but when push comes to shove, I have rarely been upset to see one. It wasn't until Eidolon came around that I finally retired mine, but I still sneak them in on occasion and was glad I did. Between Atarka's Command, Dodging Eidolon, and being "uncounterable", it is pretty reliable.
If I were to run mono-red, I think I'd look like this:
Don't like either Wear // Tear or Smelt. If I was running any artifact destruction it would be Smash to Smithereens. Just pack a playset and call it a day.
Hellspark is alright, and it would probably be the next creature on the list after some number of Grim Lavamancer.
I think your list is an improvement, but I don't like Collateral Damage or the Marauders.
If I were going to use the Daily list as a templat for MonoRed then I'd probably add Eidolon and a couple Grim and Shave from Shard Volley, Searing Blaze, and Magma Jet to make room.
The sideboard needs a ton of work to make it less reactive. Main switches would be Molten Rain over Blood Moon, Volcanic Fallout over Pyroclasm, an extra Smash, couple of Volleys for Twin and a Relic for the random Company decks.
I have seen some lists running Refraction Trap in the sideboard. IMO it seems like a really good option with the rise of grixis and jund reccently. It is a bolt + a protection spell at the same time for just 1 mana, and it is good vs jund, grixis, burn, twin, uwr control (any deck with lightning bolt actually) and destroys pyroclasm.
Anyone tested it in the current meta? I honestly think it is a really strong sideboard card in the right meta.
Lavamancer synergizes with all of the Fetchlands we run and gives us extra reach when we gas out and have to start playing in topdeck mode. It also gives repeatable spot removal to break up things like the Melira/Anafenza-Seer-Finks Combo and Twin Combo(s).
“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
-The UWR control match for me has been kinda tough, if only, because of their very effective counterspells, coupled with their eventual lifegain and Cellestial Colonade+Snapcaster+Lightning Helixes. I fear like my best advantage here is just drawing effectively and hoping for the best.
-HATE Shard Volley. Just never around when I want it, so I took it out completely.
-I prefer Searing Blood over Searing Blaze. I'm running 20 lands, and so they come scarcely. With smaller creatures running the format, I prefer a generally unconditional creature kill + 3 to the face rather than a 1-and-1 that Searing Blood sometimes is.
-Two Grim Lavamancer mainboard. With Lightning Bolts, Path to Exile, and Decay's everywhere, it just doesn't get around to turn 2 as often as I want. I've thought of replacing it with two Hellspark Elemental (based on what other people have said here, it looks pretty good). Immediate impact and impact later on.
"Pick a second color, splash the third, but do not jam all three (or more) colors. Yes, having Boros Charm and Atarka's Command is great, but you will often lose the life that Atarka's Command is keeping your opponent from gaining. Remember, the biggest problem with Burn is not the lifegain hate, it's the fast clocks, and taking more damage than you need to will hurt in the long run more than the benefit of having all of these shiny spells, especially in the mirror."
I´ve been playing straight boros burn, not naya. Keeping the commands to the sideboard, it is a relief to get your first sacred foundry and be done with fetching for most game 1s. I agree with Lowry here, but Command has put the deck in an over the top fashion and you see every successful list run it lately. I have been testing it out since it came out and it is definitely a much bigger threat. Ari Lax uploaded a video at scg premium where he has commands in the main along 3 shard volleys (not a fan of this last addition 3 seems too much). There are plenty of directions one can take the archetype in, but as far as I can tell the most successful since dragons of tarkir is definitely Naya.
What Im noticing is the prevalence and relevance of 3 color Burn. You know I tried to read all the pages since Ive been away and after 40 pages I think Im caught up enough
For the life of me even though I do have the all lands I prefer to stay at 2 colors and have a R/B, R/W and R/G version. The R/B seems to be the stronger punishing deck but also the most vulnerable to hate cards. The R/G is the least strongest but has the best counter hate cards. The R/W version seems to have the best balance. In the past havent been able to find the right balance and consistency of 3 color. Now that Atarka's Command and Monastery Swiftspear have hit Burn by storm Ive got some really fun play testing (its always fun to play test) to do. Just when you thought there was no room for more cards in your deck, gotta figure out a new right balance of cards.
And welcome to all Burn players new and old
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
I agree : Tasigur seems too slow for me. The black splash needs efficiency, and he is not in Burn. Self Inflicted Wound is something I never saw, but it seems a decent sideboard card (maybe 4 is overkill).
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
He's a 6 drop with Delve. So he can normally hit the board around turn 3.
If the game goes long, he can recur burn spells.
Maybe not 3 in the mainboard, but he'd be interesting in the UWR control match.
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
Twin
Company decks
Affinity
Burn
will be well represented.
SB:
2 Path
2 Defl Palm
2 Volc Fallout
2 Kor Firewalker
3 Molten Rain
4 Dest Revelry
Still trying to shore up the MB, mainly settling on the # of lifegain hate cards to run. I'm at 4 Command/2 Skullcrack currently.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=292409
-MH
Modern
BUGLantern ControlBUG
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
It was not delight, not wonder that arose among us, it was the peace of heaven. He who has thought most deeply loves what is most alive. - Friedrich Holderlin
1907 Constructed Rating on Magic Online.
You are never going to be able to pay for his activation, Why would you not run gurmag angler instead. Seems like the card you are really looking for if you want a fatty to fight goyfs. You could cut a land run an extra burn spell and swap tasigur for angler. Finally both of those are worse than grim lavamancer in a burn deck. If you want to use your graveyard for profit that is the card you need.
You sacrifice a lot to go monored. But there are some advantages like consistency and no self damage.
Here's a list that 4-0 a recent Daily:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Hellspark Elemental
Spells
4 Skullcrack
4 Shard Volley
4 Searing Blaze
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
20 Mountain
2 Torpor Orb
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Leyline of Punishment
3 Dragon's Claw
1 Blood Moon
4 Wear / Tear
There's a lot I don't like about the list (most if the Sideboard). I'd definitely want Eidolon instead of Hellspark. But this is a good starting point.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
The Magma Jet is helpful, I loved it when I was running mono-red (now I'm R/W). I wouldn't run Wear // Tear without being able to cast Tear though, and Shard Volley doesn't strike me as a 4 of. Maybe run 3 more Blood Moon and 1 more Smash to Smithereens and cut 2 Shard Volley for 2 Grim Lavamancer?
First off, Smelt is infinitely better than Wear // Tear in mono red.
Next, I think the biggest advantage mono-red has in this meta is that it doesn't hurt itself with lands, and that's nothing to sneeze at. It's generally assumed that you're going to eat 3 damage from that Lightning Helix anyway, but mono-red never loses the life in the first place, or any other life from lands for that matter.
Third, I see a lot of hate for Shard Volley, and I think people have the wrong viewpoint towards it. I agree that 4 is too many, but I don't think 2 is enough. Why? You want to see it. It's a finisher, that while isn't nearly as strong as Fireblast, fills a similar role. It's the last card that leaves your hand, and to that effect it may as well be lightning bolt 5-7. I have personally won many games off the back of this card simply because it's another 1 mana instant for 3 damage.
Fourth, Hellspark is criminally underrated. This is a partial pet card for me, but when push comes to shove, I have rarely been upset to see one. It wasn't until Eidolon came around that I finally retired mine, but I still sneak them in on occasion and was glad I did. Between Atarka's Command, Dodging Eidolon, and being "uncounterable", it is pretty reliable.
If I were to run mono-red, I think I'd look like this:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Hellspark Elemental
2 Keldon Marauders
Spells
4 Skullcrack
3 Shard Volley
2 Searing Blaze
2 Collateral Damage
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
19 Mountain
2 Torpor Orb
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Leyline of Punishment
3 Dragon's Claw
3 Blood Moon
2 Pyroclasm
RRRAshling, the PilgrimRRR
UUUThadda Adel, AcquisitorUUU
Hellspark is alright, and it would probably be the next creature on the list after some number of Grim Lavamancer.
I think your list is an improvement, but I don't like Collateral Damage or the Marauders.
If I were going to use the Daily list as a templat for MonoRed then I'd probably add Eidolon and a couple Grim and Shave from Shard Volley, Searing Blaze, and Magma Jet to make room.
The sideboard needs a ton of work to make it less reactive. Main switches would be Molten Rain over Blood Moon, Volcanic Fallout over Pyroclasm, an extra Smash, couple of Volleys for Twin and a Relic for the random Company decks.
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Hellspark Elemental
2 Grim Lavamancer
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Skullcrack
3 Searing Blaze
3 Shard Volley
2 Flames of the Blood Hand
20 Mountain
4 Smash to Smithereens
3 Dragon's Claw
3 Molten Rain
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Rending Volley
1 Relic of Progenitus
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
i plan to make a Naya Burn deck. i see lists sporting 2 Grim Lavamancer. but doesn't it make more sense to have 2 Young Pyromancer instead for Atarka's Command?
thanks!
Anyone tested it in the current meta? I honestly think it is a really strong sideboard card in the right meta.
That said, is there any reason we're favoring a two-of Path to Exile over Pyrite Spellbomb these days? Both cards kill Firewalkers, and the latter also takes out Etched Champions. Is it to give us a way to address Siege Rhino, Tasigur, and Angler as well?
I don't doubt the change, I'm just curious.
Edit:Lavamancer synergizes with all of the Fetchlands we run and gives us extra reach when we gas out and have to start playing in topdeck mode. It also gives repeatable spot removal to break up things like the Melira/Anafenza-Seer-Finks Combo and Twin Combo(s).
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
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3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther