replace those steel shaper gifts with thoughtcast and that sword with a welding jar. reason being thoughtcast can replenish your hand after you drop everything. welding jar helps when people try to destroy a key card. steelshaper gifts is too narrow. you can try to arrange your list be categorizing them by cmc and type which makes for easier reading. see some of the example above or the page before. it is also more easier to see what are the flex cards to be considered.
This is the list that 1 run for the last 2 event and go 3-0 with just minimal changes to sideboard. expected meta are grixis delver/delver variant, junk/jund, burn, twin, bloom titan, ad naseam/ur storm, abzan company and affinity.
Because 1 for 1 is not effective against coco, that is 1. ancient grudge is better against affinity because ravage can make the target too big that you can't blast it away. also when grudge in graveyard, you can use a removal immediately without another draw and also on the stack to any modular target.
I officially have no doubts this is the way to run the deck as I type this. This has produced the highest win % of any version. If I was sleeving a 75 for Charlotte of any one of you who are take this build into consideration.
This is the best main deck that does what the deck want's to be doing, after like 2 weeks of trying spellskite's and more etched I just kept losing more game 1's cause I didn't have enough big cards, being back at 15 has been very nice and the way it should be. With skite's back in the board I have put 1 galvanic back in the main over a Thoughtcast.
The sideboard seems alright this way, but you could cut:
-1 Rending Volley
-1 Spell Pierce
for other things you may like better - Maybe another Grudge or the last Etched or a chalice ( its kinda good against bloom but not overly great if they board out the hive mines )
The only thing that might happen is people will cut down artifact hate but you might see a jump in stony silence due to Tron being on the upstick officially.
How well has Welding Jar been doing for you? I've also been trying 1 Shrapnel Blast and I'm not sure how I feel about it yet.
Also been thinking about going 2/2 with Etched Champion and Master of Etherium... But I believe that Etched Champion slightly has the edge against all spot removal, which most decks seem to have. Is it worth possibly throwing the game 1 for the extra pumps for Master?
Jar is a card Ive always not liked, even in like 2003, But with all this 1-1 and path kinda being the least played over Bolt/Decay its great at a zero cost 1 of. Blast cost 2 and a color which is very bad. You already have enough colored spells in 3 Master/1 Galv and 2 TC. And the Jar helps play to the game plan of getting lots of artifact into play.
People are getting caught up on the Command acting like the deck has taken some major step backwards. Its not much different and still is 5/5 vs Jund. And really only twin is the matchup you lose most often.
This is my Master vs Etched pro's list.
Master does the following:
Gives you better starting hands with less mulligans
Beats Lingering Souls
Makes game 1 way more effective which is the key to the deck by threatening fast kills with its anthem and big body.
Etched does the following:
Increases sideboard space but right now that's not needed
Can beat Path to Exile/Decay if you have MetalCraft.
Over a long day of Magic which one of those would you want? More Winning/Less Mulls or knowing you win less but can beat a path to exile which may never actually come?
In the end the results from endless games only solidified my own thoughts Etched is a great Sideboard card and Master is main deck big card that's needed.
More people affinity deck's are starting get cute to deal with a 2 of main Command, adding main deck Spellskite's/Counterspell's/Tempered's thus slowing down the aggro deck.
I personally play affinity in Legacy(more so actually) and Modern cause I like to put a clock on my opponent before we sit down. If I wanted to not do that id play Delver/Jund in Modern and Miracles/Delver in Legacy like most people cause once you no longer commit to being fully aggro than what's the point might as well have a deck of good stuff.
I should just call the deck Ricky Bobby cause I wanna go fast!
You literally just said to me run 3 Wear // Tear and just take cards out that dont serve the same purpose. This is why I asked you this. I dont care what you run but dont tell me to cut Grudge and Pierce for a card that doesnt accomplish the same thing...?
Do as you wish, I'm not coming where you live at night to introduce Wear//Tears in your sideboard while you sleep.
So, you found the definitive answer against Stony Silence. Ok. It is amazing how no other pro-player ever thought of that. But ok.
Yupp, on the draw they went turn 2 Stony Silence I went turn 3 Tempered Steel with my plains, glimmervoid and Darksteel citadel. Rolled over him because he thought the same thing every player thinks playing against affinity. I have a hate card, I win this game.
You hardly did that since your Darksteel Citadel couldn't have been tapped with Stony Silence in play.
Sarcasm aside: if your opponent only plays a Stony Silence and then just stares at you for the rest of the match, you might very well win. Otherwise, if you don't destroy it/counter it, it's gonna be a mountain to climb for you. Half of your mana sources don't work, including most of your colored mana sources. Ravager doesn't work. Cranial Plating doesn't work. Welding Jar doesn't work. Steel Overseer doesn't work. Concerning Tempered Steel, since numbers matter, most of the times you won't have 2x white mana to even cast it after a Stony Silence.
So guess what? No, you haven't found the definitive answer to Stony. No, playing 3x Tempered Steel doesn't prevent Stony silence from hurting you and stifling you. Yes, you still need to answer that card and yes, you should still be afraid of it.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Because 1 for 1 is not effective against coco, that is 1. ancient grudge is better against affinity because ravage can make the target too big that you can't blast it away. also when grudge in graveyard, you can use a removal immediately without another draw and also on the stack to any modular target.
No, you play Blast when the modular trigger is on the stack, and G-Blast is also burn, which can throw off combat damage and modular math. As for CoCo, how else are you going to disrupt the combo when it can go off at instant speed? What outs do you have for Kataki?
I'm done. Play the card or not future of the deck is this version. I'm done here
As someone who has played Affinity for almost two years, Tempered Steal is AWFUL.
The mana cost is too restrictive in a competitive environment to actually be consistently good.
To say that tempered steal is the "future" of affinity... is very laughable. Ensoul Artifact is arguably better (easier to cast, more aggressive) and even that does not see universal play in affinity.
The issues with tempered steel is two fold. First it costs double white. We only run 12 ways to produce white mana MAX. And that's assuming that our opponent has not cast stony silence. (Stone silence turns off drum and mox opal). Assuming our opponent does not play silence, you have a a 64% chance of drawing two white "sources" in your opening hand. Although that may seem "enough" a vast majority of those "sources" are situational. Which means even if you do draw two white sources, those sources may not beable to produce the multi-colored man you need.
The second issue with tempered steal: It doesn't do anything. Sure giving all your guys +2/+2 is "nice" but you will most likely have to tap out to cast it. Which means you can't cast tempered steal and other spells at the same time, which can leave you vulnerable. Additionally abrupt decay is still a thing.
On the topic of Wear // Tear VS Ancient Grudge: you are correct. Ancient Grudge is loads better vs artifacts than Wear // Tear... but that's why you run both. My current split is x2 Ancient Grudge and x1 Wear // Tear (though I could see going up to x2 wear // tear if you suspect boggles and/or tons of affinity hate)
EDIT: Stony Silence turns off all artifacts.. including Citadel. How did you cast tempered steal with only three mana sources, one of them being an artifact land? 0_o.
this will be my last comment on this thread. Next time you'll hear from me is when Tempered Steel does well at a GP.
Thank you and good bye.
Wish you the best luck. But playing tempered steel in affinity is NOT a new concept.
The article in question does not actually contain any new information. People have been trying to use Tempered Steal as a proactive way to deal with anti-artifact hate for years.
Nothing actually changed in the meta that makes tempered steel better. People still play wear // tear and abrupt decays.
That being said, I do agree with the article that Steel Overseer is the weakest card in the deck. I can "sort of" see removing it for tempered steel. There is one huge problem with this; however. No one mains artifact hate game 1 (unless you are playing against "THAT" player). That means overseer can be very relative game 1. Additionally, steal overseer is a necessary evil in the mirror. Removing it entirely just isn't the correct line of play.
PS: I still want to know how you cast tempered steal with a stony silence on the bored and only three mana sources... one of which was a citadel. I really really want to know.
this will be my last comment on this thread. Next time you'll hear from me is when Tempered Steel does well at a GP.
Thank you and good bye.
This doesn't mean much. Like in the Grixis Delver thread, your posts are full of baseless speculation and theorizing. Come back with some real results if you expect us to take you seriously.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
To say something in his favour, I've actually seen lists with Tempered Steel making good results here in Europe.
But:
1). They were not many;
2). It happened quite some time ago, so Tempered Steel is no news;
3). ALL OF THEM played Steel in the sideboard. Which could even be reasonable under some circumstances.
I never tested Tempered Steel personally (actually I did, but not enough). But to me it is obvious that the reason why we haven't seen it get played more regardless of people trying to use it, is the mana cost, that just doesn't suit an Affinity deck. Sometimes you will have the correct mana and it will be great, other times you won't. The times you won't are too many for the card to be good.
This is basically why Tempered Steel doesn't see universal play.
As I said in my previous post, the "theoretical" concept of playing Tempered Steel in affinity is not new. Many people (myself included) have play tested the card.
The issue isn't that lists with tempered steel can not make good results (they can). I would even argue its "possible" for a tempered steel affinity deck to win a GP.
The problem; however, is double white is SUPER hard on our mana base. It reduces the consistency of the deck for added power.
And I don't think the "added power" is necessarily worth it.
I'm awaiting a couple of Mox Opals and will soon be playing robots! I have a question about splits between Etched Champion and Master of Etherium: I noticed every list has a different number of each, and I'm sure this is dependent on the meta. But what would be the "optimal" number of each? Which one is good in which matchups and bad in others? When do you want to board to more of one than the other?
I'm just unaware of which creature is better against different matchups. Thanks!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1x etched champion
4x arcbound ravager
3x steel overseer
2x spellskite
4x vault skirge
4x signal pest
4x ornithoptor
2x memnite
1x welding jar
4x cranial plating
3x galvanic blast
1x thoughtcast
4x springleaf drum
4x mox opal
4x blinkmoth nexus
4x inkmoth nexus
4x darksteel citadel
3x glimmervoid
1x island
2x etched champion
1x grafdigger's cage
1x blood moon
1x rule of law
1x rest in peace
2x whipflare
2x thoughtseize
2x ancient grudge
2x spell pierce
1x wear//tear
Burn
-3 steel overseer
-1 thoughtcast
+2 etched champion
+2 spell pierce
grixis delver/delver variant
-3 galvanic blast
-3 master of etherium
-2 memnite
-1 thoughtcast
+2 etched champiom
+2 whipflare
+1 rest in peace
+2 thoughtseize
+2 spell pierce
jund/junk
-2 master of etherium
-3 galvanic blast
-1 thoughtcast
+2 etched champiom
+2 thoughtseize
+1 blood moon
+1 spell pierce
if they play lingering soul, add in whipflare
ad naseam/UR storm
-1 etched champiom
-3 galvanic blast
-1 thoughtcast
-1 welding jar
+1 rule of law
+1 grafdigger's cage
+2 thoughtseize
+2 spell pierce
twin
-1 thoughtcast
-1 etched champion
-3 steel overseer
+1 wear//tear
+2 thoughtseize
+2 spell pierce
affinity
-1 etched champion
-2 galvanic blast
+2 ancient grudge
+1 wear//tear
bloom titan
-1 etched champion
-3 galvanic blast
-1 thoughtcast
+1 blood moon
+2 thoughtseize
+2 spell pierce
abzan company
-2 master of etherium
-3 galvanic blast
-1 thoughtcast
-1 welding jar
+2 etched champion
+1 rest in peace
+1 blood moon
+2 whipflare
+1 grafdigger's cage
these are my rough sideboarding guide against the various match-up. some may not be totally correct, I stands to be corrected.
Why would you ever side out Galvanic Blast in the Affinty and CoCo match ups?
Jar is a card Ive always not liked, even in like 2003, But with all this 1-1 and path kinda being the least played over Bolt/Decay its great at a zero cost 1 of. Blast cost 2 and a color which is very bad. You already have enough colored spells in 3 Master/1 Galv and 2 TC. And the Jar helps play to the game plan of getting lots of artifact into play.
People are getting caught up on the Command acting like the deck has taken some major step backwards. Its not much different and still is 5/5 vs Jund. And really only twin is the matchup you lose most often.
This is my Master vs Etched pro's list.
Master does the following:
Gives you better starting hands with less mulligans
Beats Lingering Souls
Makes game 1 way more effective which is the key to the deck by threatening fast kills with its anthem and big body.
Etched does the following:
Increases sideboard space but right now that's not needed
Can beat Path to Exile/Decay if you have MetalCraft.
Over a long day of Magic which one of those would you want? More Winning/Less Mulls or knowing you win less but can beat a path to exile which may never actually come?
In the end the results from endless games only solidified my own thoughts Etched is a great Sideboard card and Master is main deck big card that's needed.
More people affinity deck's are starting get cute to deal with a 2 of main Command, adding main deck Spellskite's/Counterspell's/Tempered's thus slowing down the aggro deck.
I personally play affinity in Legacy(more so actually) and Modern cause I like to put a clock on my opponent before we sit down. If I wanted to not do that id play Delver/Jund in Modern and Miracles/Delver in Legacy like most people cause once you no longer commit to being fully aggro than what's the point might as well have a deck of good stuff.
I should just call the deck Ricky Bobby cause I wanna go fast!
Whatever dude. Get lost
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
No, you play Blast when the modular trigger is on the stack, and G-Blast is also burn, which can throw off combat damage and modular math. As for CoCo, how else are you going to disrupt the combo when it can go off at instant speed? What outs do you have for Kataki?
As someone who has played Affinity for almost two years, Tempered Steal is AWFUL.
The mana cost is too restrictive in a competitive environment to actually be consistently good.
To say that tempered steal is the "future" of affinity... is very laughable. Ensoul Artifact is arguably better (easier to cast, more aggressive) and even that does not see universal play in affinity.
The issues with tempered steel is two fold. First it costs double white. We only run 12 ways to produce white mana MAX. And that's assuming that our opponent has not cast stony silence. (Stone silence turns off drum and mox opal). Assuming our opponent does not play silence, you have a a 64% chance of drawing two white "sources" in your opening hand. Although that may seem "enough" a vast majority of those "sources" are situational. Which means even if you do draw two white sources, those sources may not beable to produce the multi-colored man you need.
The second issue with tempered steal: It doesn't do anything. Sure giving all your guys +2/+2 is "nice" but you will most likely have to tap out to cast it. Which means you can't cast tempered steal and other spells at the same time, which can leave you vulnerable. Additionally abrupt decay is still a thing.
On the topic of Wear // Tear VS Ancient Grudge: you are correct. Ancient Grudge is loads better vs artifacts than Wear // Tear... but that's why you run both. My current split is x2 Ancient Grudge and x1 Wear // Tear (though I could see going up to x2 wear // tear if you suspect boggles and/or tons of affinity hate)
EDIT: Stony Silence turns off all artifacts.. including Citadel. How did you cast tempered steal with only three mana sources, one of them being an artifact land? 0_o.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/295088#online
this will be my last comment on this thread. Next time you'll hear from me is when Tempered Steel does well at a GP.
Thank you and good bye.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Wish you the best luck. But playing tempered steel in affinity is NOT a new concept.
The article in question does not actually contain any new information. People have been trying to use Tempered Steal as a proactive way to deal with anti-artifact hate for years.
Nothing actually changed in the meta that makes tempered steel better. People still play wear // tear and abrupt decays.
That being said, I do agree with the article that Steel Overseer is the weakest card in the deck. I can "sort of" see removing it for tempered steel. There is one huge problem with this; however. No one mains artifact hate game 1 (unless you are playing against "THAT" player). That means overseer can be very relative game 1. Additionally, steal overseer is a necessary evil in the mirror. Removing it entirely just isn't the correct line of play.
PS: I still want to know how you cast tempered steal with a stony silence on the bored and only three mana sources... one of which was a citadel. I really really want to know.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
This is basically why Tempered Steel doesn't see universal play.
As I said in my previous post, the "theoretical" concept of playing Tempered Steel in affinity is not new. Many people (myself included) have play tested the card.
The issue isn't that lists with tempered steel can not make good results (they can). I would even argue its "possible" for a tempered steel affinity deck to win a GP.
The problem; however, is double white is SUPER hard on our mana base. It reduces the consistency of the deck for added power.
And I don't think the "added power" is necessarily worth it.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I'm awaiting a couple of Mox Opals and will soon be playing robots! I have a question about splits between Etched Champion and Master of Etherium: I noticed every list has a different number of each, and I'm sure this is dependent on the meta. But what would be the "optimal" number of each? Which one is good in which matchups and bad in others? When do you want to board to more of one than the other?
I'm just unaware of which creature is better against different matchups. Thanks!