@Baron_Sengir_007 Pardon my ignorance, but I was under the impression that Disciple affinity decks needed more artifact lands to function. Let me ask you this, though, since I don't have a playset of Hangarback Walkers yet: how many tokens are you getting from them on average? I think you'd need to be getting at least 2 or 3 before you'd want to consider a disciple plan, but maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about.
It's an intriguing idea, but there's obviously a very high bar to meet. It strikes me as a possibly good sideboard plan for decks lacking Stony Silence in their 75, especially on the draw (on the play, I think we usually just want to kill as quickly as possible). Do you have a rough idea for 60 with Disciples? I'd personally see how feasible slotting the missing cards into my SB is and might test it out. Maybe the post-board 60 would look something like this:
This is really just my Affinity list (pretty stock), but I'm swapping out Galvanic Blasts for Disciples and one Master of Etherium for one Hangarback Walker. I'm sure it's fine, but we only really care if it's better than our alternatives against a given strategy — and I'll reiterate intuition that this only has a possibility of being a good choice if we want to have the option of implementing a slower but more resilient game plan. It could be strong against Grixis or Jund.
EDIT: I'm not the most experienced Affinity player out there — far from it, in fact — so my list may be a little too grindy. I swapped out a couple Etched Champions for a fourth Steel Overseer and a Master of Etherium.
Tonight at FNM, I tried out Day's Undoing. I cast it four or five times, two were noteworthy. One was on turn two; poor kid had a Plains in play and seven cards in hand. The second was in a game against GW Hexproof; I was racing a moderately well equipped Gladecover Scout with a Vault Skirge with Cranial Plating. I drew two Galvanic Blasts and won the next turn so I think Day's Undoing probably won that game for me.
I generally sided all four out if I wasn't on the draw; that seems like the right thing to do. I remember holding onto one for a long time once or twice but it never really cost me anything.
If nothing else, it seems to have been lucky; two tournaments, eight matches, sixteen games, not one game lost.
Ghirapur Æther Grid seems like an interesting inclusion in the sideboard. Its looks decent in the mirror (see izzet staticaster and grim lavamancer) and can deal with lingering souls while still providing some reach. I might have to pick up a couple.
Interesting insights on this thread, and apologies if I'm rehashing things that have previously been covered... I'm just recently returning to the world of MTG after not playing at all since 2007, so imagine my surprise (and delight) when I saw affinity is still a viable and common deck. But needless to say things look a bit different now than they did in my heyday, when Disciple of the Vault and AEther Vial were everywhere, and I was hoping for some insights on those changes both as they relate to the modern metagame and implications for piloting the deck:
1) Disciple of the Vault: I see people have recently been posting about working him back in, but I'm curious why he got cut from mainstream builds in the first place? In the original builds Disciple was every bit as essential as Ravager. Was it just that the banning of the artifact lands made him not quite powerful enough to include? But we still have plenty of other cheap artifacts... Did the metagame evolve to include too much spot removal? Just curious about the evolution here.
2) Rules question: I was playing affinity on Xmage the other night, and was surprised when my opponent's Stony Silence stopped me from getting mana out of Darksteel Citadel and Mox Lotus. As I understand the rules, mana abilities do not count as activated abilities and would not be stopped. Did the rules change? Or is Xmage's rules engine just broken?
3) Another rules question: I take it that combat damage no longer goes on the stack anymore (as a direct reaction to affinity, hehe). But the attacker still gets priority after blockers have been assigned but before damage gets dealt, when you could sac a Ravager or insta-equip Cranial Plating, right?
Thanks for helping get this oldhead back up to speed!
1) I was there when disciple were song, but seems like the lack of sac outlet other than ravager make it not as appealing. Also decks in modern nowadays pack so much removal that disciple might be lacklustre.
2)I was surprise as well initially, but stony silence stop all activated ability including mana ability, unlike damping matrix of old that exclude mana ability. It is our worst hate card in my opinion.
3)yes, combat on the stack is no more. And yes you are allowed to transfer modular or shift plating before damage step after blockers are declared. These are some of the changes that have change from the past. 1 last thing, not there are no mana burn as well. Hope that clarify.
@The Aller: My problem with Day's Undoing, is that with all this Jund/Grixis floating around, is that all that removal they had, they have it again now. They get to react first after it resolves, and that's something you usually do not want. Sure, it is good against decks that don't pack a ton of removal, but overall the majority of the decks you will face in a large setting will want that removal back into their hands. Can you give us some data to conclude that it is the best version? What did you play against? How did you SB? Did you God hand into Day's which resulted in another god hand?
Going forward, after playing with spellskite in the main, I like it. I would play 2 in the mainboard, 0 in SB. I also have been on the Hangarback Walker plan since origins came out and it should be a 2-3 in the 75. However, where to place it is kind of hard to judge at the moment. I have slowly gone back to 2 Master of Etherium. Here is my current list at the momemnt:
I'm testing Undoing Affinity. With Frogmites and Welding Jars. To my surprise, it looks like the Undoing version of the deck is the best one right now. Better than the traditional build, better than the Disciple-Walker build. This card (Day's Undoing) simply wins games by itself. It's too strong not to play it. And in the MUs where it's bad (there are indeed some), you simply side it out and bring in Etched Champion or other replacements.
Here's the list from Mtg World 2015 . Notice there's no Day's Undoing or Hangarback Walker just straight up Affinity . This is the list I'm going to run except for Blood Moon since I don't own any.
sideboard plan for grishoalbrand are
-3 steel overseer
-2 spellskite
-1 welding jar/memnite
+1 relic of progenitus
+1 grafdigger's cage
+2 spell pierce
+2 thoughtseize
grishoalbrand is a unstable deck. they can outright win you in turn 2-3 or lose straight flat in their face. the relic and cage will stop their turn 2 reanimate. spell pierce help against their through the breach or goryo vengeance. hit them fast so that that can't draw too much cards off griselbrand. vault skirge with plating can go a long way in term of tempo.
bloom titan
-3 steel overseer
-1 welding jar
+2 blood moon
+1 torpor orb
+1 ancient grudge
blood moon is critical to win the deck outright. the one ancient grudge for their amulet. I don't play more because they only have 4 artifact. torpor orb and spellskite works well against their titan.
pyromancer ascension
-3 steel overseer
-1 welding jar
+1 relic of progenitus
+1 grafdigger's cage
+2 spell pierce
if you run rule of law in sideboard, bring it in. spell pierce their ritual cards, and stop their graveyard flashback should buy you enough time to kill them.
they most likely will bring in shatterstorm or hurkyl's recall against you, so just keep a open colour mana up to bluff or respond to their hate or comboing off.
grixis
as I am not sure which version you are referring to as there are control, delver, twin version. I will usually assume the twin variant as that is the worst of the lot unless you see delver.
kolaghan's command, engineered explosive, vandalblast are the most commonly used hate against our deck. they may bring in anger or pyroclasm as well.
-3 steel overseer
-1 welding jar
+2 spell pierce
+1 relic of progenitus
+1 torpor orb
if against the delver version, change the spell pierce to whipflare, torpor orb to dismember
for the control version, take out torpor orb and bring in dismember
this is my rough guide of dealing with above match-up. the list I am using is the GP Singapore champion list. so far that list is very consistent. I have not tried with day's undoing and hangerback walker. depending on meta, you might want to play illness in the rank or rule of law in sideboard. the rest of the board in main and side remain unchanged. spellskite is a better choice in mainboard as compared to sideboard now due to kolaghan's command. other than this I have no other advice.
Nope, they play blood moon in their sideboard as well. if possible I would try to kill them via infect if possible. they have little interaction with us.
My problem with it is that you have described the ideal scenario. How often are you going to get the ideal scenario? Is it that good to warrant taking out the best card in the deck (Etched Champion) to put in something that will occasionally get there? Mind you, I like Day's Undoing in affinity, but right now the format is slow and this deck preys on it by being extremely fast. Day's Undoing can help with that by refilling with gas, but they also get removal or their threats as well. Against Jund, what if you dump your hand and say leave 2-3 cards left and they go T1 IoK or TS? More likely they will take the Day's. Also they get the first action after Day's Undoing, which can be a disaster.
I have done my testing with Day's Undoing and I found sticking to the original plan to be much better in the current meta. Also, i love me some good T1 Frogmites, but that card is not worth running unless you can make it more threatening(Tempered Steel or follow up Tezz, AoB).
Went 3-1 last night, coming in second, winning against UR Twin, Elves, and Grixis splashing green. Lost to Grixis Twin. How on earth do we beat it!? Every turn just felt SO futile like I couldn't do anything at all that mattered.
@Kovo I'd want to swap the MoE and Etched numbers and -1 Overseer and +1 spellskite. Also no interaction with stony silence(IE no Wear or Thoughtseize)?
@Frosty care to give the list you played? Having the spellskites in the main help. Also having an opening hand that has some gas + galv blast helps too.
@Kovo I'd want to swap the MoE and Etched numbers and -1 Overseer and +1 spellskite. Also no interaction with stony silence(IE no Wear or Thoughtseize)?
@Frosty care to give the list you played? Having the spellskites in the main help. Also having an opening hand that has some gas + galv blast helps too.
I have the 2 spellskites main and 4 galv basts main as well. I had opening hands with both in them and still didn't stand a chance. Kol Command + snapcaster into command again is just brutal. No matter what I played it just wouldn't stick and no matter how much incremental damage I tried doing with whatever did stick, they just ended up dying as well.
I saw this list and was wondering if anyone had any experience running Atarka's Command or boros charm in the deck. This odd list interest me cause it looks like command and charm back up the deck and give it some answers and abilities it doesn't normally have.
The command interests me cause the deck is known for attacking wide, and its +1/+1 mode looks powerful for this, plus it bolts ontop of them. has a skullcrack mode if needed.
Charm only gets you 1 mode, but i can't see any of them never being relevant, whether being used for defense or pushing an attack over the top.
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Glimmervoid
1 Swamp
Mana-producing Artifacts (8)
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
2 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
Primary Threats (22)
4 Cranial Plating
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Vault Skirge
4 Steel Overseer
4 Signal Pest
1 Etched Champion
1 Master of Etherium
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Disciple of the Vault
This is really just my Affinity list (pretty stock), but I'm swapping out Galvanic Blasts for Disciples and one Master of Etherium for one Hangarback Walker. I'm sure it's fine, but we only really care if it's better than our alternatives against a given strategy — and I'll reiterate intuition that this only has a possibility of being a good choice if we want to have the option of implementing a slower but more resilient game plan. It could be strong against Grixis or Jund.
EDIT: I'm not the most experienced Affinity player out there — far from it, in fact — so my list may be a little too grindy. I swapped out a couple Etched Champions for a fourth Steel Overseer and a Master of Etherium.
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Glimmervoid
1 Island
Creatures
4 Ornithopter
2 Memnite
4 Vault Skirge
4 Signal Pest
3 Steel Overseer
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Master of Etherium
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Day's Undoing
4 Etched Champion
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
3 Whipflare
2 Dismember
Tonight at FNM, I tried out Day's Undoing. I cast it four or five times, two were noteworthy. One was on turn two; poor kid had a Plains in play and seven cards in hand. The second was in a game against GW Hexproof; I was racing a moderately well equipped Gladecover Scout with a Vault Skirge with Cranial Plating. I drew two Galvanic Blasts and won the next turn so I think Day's Undoing probably won that game for me.
I generally sided all four out if I wasn't on the draw; that seems like the right thing to do. I remember holding onto one for a long time once or twice but it never really cost me anything.
If nothing else, it seems to have been lucky; two tournaments, eight matches, sixteen games, not one game lost.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
1) Disciple of the Vault: I see people have recently been posting about working him back in, but I'm curious why he got cut from mainstream builds in the first place? In the original builds Disciple was every bit as essential as Ravager. Was it just that the banning of the artifact lands made him not quite powerful enough to include? But we still have plenty of other cheap artifacts... Did the metagame evolve to include too much spot removal? Just curious about the evolution here.
2) Rules question: I was playing affinity on Xmage the other night, and was surprised when my opponent's Stony Silence stopped me from getting mana out of Darksteel Citadel and Mox Lotus. As I understand the rules, mana abilities do not count as activated abilities and would not be stopped. Did the rules change? Or is Xmage's rules engine just broken?
3) Another rules question: I take it that combat damage no longer goes on the stack anymore (as a direct reaction to affinity, hehe). But the attacker still gets priority after blockers have been assigned but before damage gets dealt, when you could sac a Ravager or insta-equip Cranial Plating, right?
Thanks for helping get this oldhead back up to speed!
2)I was surprise as well initially, but stony silence stop all activated ability including mana ability, unlike damping matrix of old that exclude mana ability. It is our worst hate card in my opinion.
3)yes, combat on the stack is no more. And yes you are allowed to transfer modular or shift plating before damage step after blockers are declared. These are some of the changes that have change from the past. 1 last thing, not there are no mana burn as well. Hope that clarify.
Going forward, after playing with spellskite in the main, I like it. I would play 2 in the mainboard, 0 in SB. I also have been on the Hangarback Walker plan since origins came out and it should be a 2-3 in the 75. However, where to place it is kind of hard to judge at the moment. I have slowly gone back to 2 Master of Etherium. Here is my current list at the momemnt:
2 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Steel Overseer
2 Spellskite
1 Hangarback Walker
3 Etched Champion
2 Master of Etherium
4 Cranial Plating
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Galvanic Blast
1 Mountain
3 Glimmervoid
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Hangarback Walker
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Dispatch
1 Wear//Tear
2 Thoughtseize
2 Spell Pierece
2 Whipflare
2 Ancient Grudge
2 OPEN SLOTS (currently a welding jar + free slot)
Could you share your current list?
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Etched Champion
2x Frogmite
2x myr enforcer
4x Memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x Signal Pest
4x Vault Skirge
4x Mox Opal
4x Springleaf Drum
Land (16)
4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Darksteel Citadel
3x Glimmervoid
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Mountain
4x Galvanic Blast
4x Shrapnel Blast
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
4 Etched Champion
2 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
2 Spellskite
3 Steel Overseer
4 Vault Skirge
4 Cranial Plating
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Glimmervoid
4 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Mountain
4 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
1 Dismember
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
2 Whipflare
Grishoalbrand
Bloom Titan (Amulet combo)
Pyromancer Ascension and other storm decks
Grixis
I will really appreciate your response I plan to use affinity in the WMCQ this Saturday but I'm kinda outdated on using this deck.
Eladamri
-3 steel overseer
-2 spellskite
-1 welding jar/memnite
+1 relic of progenitus
+1 grafdigger's cage
+2 spell pierce
+2 thoughtseize
grishoalbrand is a unstable deck. they can outright win you in turn 2-3 or lose straight flat in their face. the relic and cage will stop their turn 2 reanimate. spell pierce help against their through the breach or goryo vengeance. hit them fast so that that can't draw too much cards off griselbrand. vault skirge with plating can go a long way in term of tempo.
bloom titan
-3 steel overseer
-1 welding jar
+2 blood moon
+1 torpor orb
+1 ancient grudge
blood moon is critical to win the deck outright. the one ancient grudge for their amulet. I don't play more because they only have 4 artifact. torpor orb and spellskite works well against their titan.
pyromancer ascension
-3 steel overseer
-1 welding jar
+1 relic of progenitus
+1 grafdigger's cage
+2 spell pierce
if you run rule of law in sideboard, bring it in. spell pierce their ritual cards, and stop their graveyard flashback should buy you enough time to kill them.
they most likely will bring in shatterstorm or hurkyl's recall against you, so just keep a open colour mana up to bluff or respond to their hate or comboing off.
grixis
as I am not sure which version you are referring to as there are control, delver, twin version. I will usually assume the twin variant as that is the worst of the lot unless you see delver.
kolaghan's command, engineered explosive, vandalblast are the most commonly used hate against our deck. they may bring in anger or pyroclasm as well.
-3 steel overseer
-1 welding jar
+2 spell pierce
+1 relic of progenitus
+1 torpor orb
if against the delver version, change the spell pierce to whipflare, torpor orb to dismember
for the control version, take out torpor orb and bring in dismember
this is my rough guide of dealing with above match-up. the list I am using is the GP Singapore champion list. so far that list is very consistent. I have not tried with day's undoing and hangerback walker. depending on meta, you might want to play illness in the rank or rule of law in sideboard. the rest of the board in main and side remain unchanged. spellskite is a better choice in mainboard as compared to sideboard now due to kolaghan's command. other than this I have no other advice.
For Grishoalbrand deck. is Blood moon a good sideboard?
Eladamri
I have done my testing with Day's Undoing and I found sticking to the original plan to be much better in the current meta. Also, i love me some good T1 Frogmites, but that card is not worth running unless you can make it more threatening(Tempered Steel or follow up Tezz, AoB).
4x Arcbound Ravager
2x Etched Champion
3x Master of Etherium
2x Memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x Signal Pest
1x Spellskite
4x Steel Overseer
4x Vault Skirge
4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Darksteel Citadel
3x Glimmervoid
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Island
Artifact (12)
4x Cranial Plating
4x Mox Opal
4x Springleaf Drum
Instant (4)
4x Galvanic Blast
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Blood Moon
1x Choke
2x Etched Champion
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Illness in the Ranks
1x Spell Pierce
2x Spellskite
2x Whipflare
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
@Frosty care to give the list you played? Having the spellskites in the main help. Also having an opening hand that has some gas + galv blast helps too.
Sure thing, here's the list: Link
I have the 2 spellskites main and 4 galv basts main as well. I had opening hands with both in them and still didn't stand a chance. Kol Command + snapcaster into command again is just brutal. No matter what I played it just wouldn't stick and no matter how much incremental damage I tried doing with whatever did stick, they just ended up dying as well.
The command interests me cause the deck is known for attacking wide, and its +1/+1 mode looks powerful for this, plus it bolts ontop of them. has a skullcrack mode if needed.
Charm only gets you 1 mode, but i can't see any of them never being relevant, whether being used for defense or pushing an attack over the top.
whhat do you guys think?
Creatures [20]
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
Instants [12]
4 Boros Charm
4 Galvanic Blast
3 Atarka's Command
Enchantments [4]
4 Ensoul Artifact
Artifacts [10]
4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
Lands [14]
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Glimmervoid
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Inkmoth Nexus