@ DXI: there are three things that don't convince me in your list.
1). Atog. Is this card really playable? Using Atog as a sac outlet is way more dangerous than using Ravager. As someone else already suggested, I believe Shrapnel Blast is probably better. Have you tested Blast? I'm a bit biased because I used to run 1-2 copies of it up until a few months ago even when nobody was running it anymore. I'm a big fan of Blast, I really like the reach Blast gives me.
2). Only two copies of Hangarback Walker? I think in a decklist like the one you posted, he should be a 3 of. I run 3 in my deck currently and my deck is still a traditional build. The card is really good and I want to draw one in most games.
3). Is Etched Champion ok as a maindeck card in a decklist like this one? I believe it would be better to run a third Hangarback instead, and then maybe a third Memnite/Shrapnel Blast. Champion would still be a very valid sideboard option.
I have tested in real life, and Atog has been good for one reason: Disciple wants to finish people off with reliable sac outlets.
I had tried Shrapnel Blast and it wasnt phenomenal, but then again I might just be salty that my Junk opponent was running Dromoka's command and blew me out with it (I still won the game but boy did that feel bad, i got 3 for 1'd).
I have been talking with Gerry about it and he said if I'm going to run Atog to try a Temur Battle Rage, as it also combos with large hangarback's, plating, ravager and now Atog so I'm gonna try a one of. I'm also gonna cut the other Etched Champion and move to 3 in the board to try out the following:
At this point, I may want to try some number of stars over springleaf drum, as we are running almost mono-2 drops, and it gives us something free to sac however it will slow us down, so I'm hesitant to try that.
The main deck steel overseer may be better as a Spellskite, and I may cut the 2nd Inkmoth for the 4th Darksteel Citadel, but I got my 16 white sources this way so we're gonna maybe try it.
And because to show I'm not completely nuts, in case my first PPTQ next weekend doesnt go well, I'll be going to this in the 2nd (or sooner if these lists dont show promise)
I agree with DXI on Overseer (definitely not to be run in a Disciple version).
I like Champion in the board (I would run even 4) and I like the third Walker. But when it comes to Temur Battle Rage...again, maybe I'm a bit repetitive...isn't it better to run a Shrapnel Blast instead? It's a better late game topdeck.
Gerry Thompson told me to try the Battle Rage. So I'm gonna try it. Its PROBABLY better as the Blast (or another card) but, I'm gonna try it regardless
Cut some of the Mountains for Dual B/R lands, as you really want to cast Disciple.
If your running 6 sac outlets you also want multiple Disciples, so I would go to 4. Also like someone said, probably not a good idea to cut Memnites. The deck is already slow dont make it even more slow.
I still think Blinkmoth is better than Inkmoth in this version as you really want to just eek out every last point of life, and Inkmoth doesnt help taht race. Its different in the Overseer/classic Affinity lists where you go for poison kills more often (I think I win 20% of my games with poison in regular affinity, maybe a bit less), but I also think you can get away with 15 colored sources (or maybe even 14) and run 1 Inkmoth and 4 Blinkmoth (or 3/3 if you have 14 sources, or 2/4).
Blood Moon and Choke is a LOT of wasted space, and honestly I'm not as impressed with Blood Moon lately. I dont like it in the Junk matchup, I dont like it against Tron as we REALLY want our manlands to be turned on, and Amulet Bloom is on the very heavy decline. If you like it I would still go down to just 1, but defeinitely not 4 land enchantments that is an absurd amount.
Hey Kyro, mind giving a play by play if you can remember? Would give some insight on how Day's did against Burn and Grixis Twin!
Did not take any notes on this tournament, but :
Playing against burn was quite straight forward. If i remember correctly i finished first game at around 10 lifes, and the second at 15.
The key point is that actual burn builds plays like 15 creatures, none with flying.
If they cast their creature, they dont blast you. If they blast you, they dont kill your creatures.
Welding jar is your ally. Always blast Eidolon.
I played my master beeing sure that they could not blast it.
Activate your moths only if they are full tap.
Day's can be awfull agains burn, but if you cast it befor turn 3 (for him), they will never have enough mana to kill you with a fresh hand. You will next have enough artifacts to kill with master/cranial/ravager.
Twin was another amazing game.
I started first.
Played darksteel, mox, 2 memnites, drum. Took one blue from mox, played another mox, cast master.
Passed turn.
Opponent played an island and a serum vision, passed turn
Top decked day's... Atacked for 10, played day's
My opponent played a fetch and passed turn.
Flushed my hand and a cranial (countered) for the win.
Game 2
He started, played a fetch.
I played inkmoth, orni, mox, drum, pest and keeped darksteel, ravager and day's in hand.
He fetched a steam vents, played an island, passed turn.
Draw cranial. Played cranial, countered. played ravager. Attacked for 2 poisons.
He played an serum and passed turn.
Draw blinkmoth. Played it and swing for victory with sacrificing my board for ravager and inkmoth.
Planning to play 2 small moderns next week. Will try to take some notes.
But i think my opponents will prepare a sidebord against my build.
So I'm just gonna play Devil's advocate here:
both of those games against Twin, Day's did nothing. I was excited to see Day's do something there but sadly, when I played it today it did nothing. I drew nut hands and just didn't cast it, or when I did cast it I was already winning.
Against my Bloom opponent I cast Day's 5 times, all 5 times they won the game after it (even though I needed to cast it to try and overload him)
Against my Burn opponents 4 times it filed their hand with burn, I won the game 2 of 4 but the games where they had Eidolon I just could not cast it or I would lose the game. The games where I played like a regular affinity deck I won the game easily.
In the first game against twin, day's got me a full board by t3 thus allowing me to kill.
In all my games day's performed well.
But yes some games were won by classic affinity. You can have 4 day's in the list but not see them
You said you attacked for 10 and then days'd. Does that not mean you could have just attacked for 10 and won the game the next turn?
I just don't see examples of "I needed Day's to win this game" in most peoples reports. And I never hear of games where Day's won their opponents games I just hear the games where Days made them flood the board and win (in niche cases)
I have been, and I'll tell you right now very rarely do I cast it turn 2 and feel like I instantly win turn 3. Turn 4/5, sure. But I think I have won turn 3 after casting turn 2 Day's (which doesn't happen that often to be fair) maybe....4 times with I don't know how many opportunities.
That statement is hyperbole, and for those of us actually interested in your results is not helpful.
So looking at the results from the Modern IQ from DC, the only thing that seems interesting is the tempered steel list that made 13th. Also note that only one affinity deck is playing Day's Undoing and it is in the sideboard. Overall, it seems like Day's Undoing is just a win more card and through multiple testings from this forum, seems not worth the slots to dedicate. I do think going forward, Spellskite and Welding Jar have spots in the deck seeing as K-Command is being played in any R/B/X deck and that 4 Galv Blasts will be the correct number.
Things to note about the Top 16: 2 Grixis lists overall only running 4 copies of K-command. Multiple Jund lists but only 4 copies of K-command and 6 copies of Abrupt Decay. Other Tier 2 decks like Hatebears, Bogles, Goryo's and Zoo appeared and with some hate with them as well.
I will be playing this list tomorrow at an event. I will give a play-by-play once it is over:
From talking with fellow players - one's I respect pretty highly - they think it's too slow and doesn't actually add any value. If it is good with Steel Overseer and Arcbound Ravager why play it specifically? - everything else works well with those two cards as well. Like how does it make the deck better by itself?
Those are the questions I would like to know the answers to to determine if it is worthy of a spot.
The only argument I could give back to them is that it is sort of a back up plan because of being good if a board wipe happens.
Hangarback Walker adds an interesting dynamic to opponents because they see it and wonder if they should attack into it. I had a 2/2 out (among other creatures) facing down a Goyf and my opponent didnt want to swing in because of the unfavorable trades on his part. He kills a 2/2 but creates 2 - 1/1 fliers, which he cannot block or destroy in mass quantities, only 1-for-1 removal like bolt.
I am going to try 2 and possibly 3 going forward and will also be running Master of Etherium since the walker CAN be played for 0 in that case (although not recommended). This way, it also lives if it gets "blinked" which happened to me on Friday.
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Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
I am 2 Japanese Lorwyn Springleaf Drums away from a fully foiled maindeck...
Before you ask, that fire you see in the background is in fact a pile of money.
I have tested in real life, and Atog has been good for one reason: Disciple wants to finish people off with reliable sac outlets.
I had tried Shrapnel Blast and it wasnt phenomenal, but then again I might just be salty that my Junk opponent was running Dromoka's command and blew me out with it (I still won the game but boy did that feel bad, i got 3 for 1'd).
I have been talking with Gerry about it and he said if I'm going to run Atog to try a Temur Battle Rage, as it also combos with large hangarback's, plating, ravager and now Atog so I'm gonna try a one of. I'm also gonna cut the other Etched Champion and move to 3 in the board to try out the following:
2 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Atog
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
4 Galvanic Blast
1 Temur Battle Rage
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Glimmervoid
1 Mountain
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Thoughtseize
1 Wear // Tear
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
2 Whipflare
1 Dismember
3 Etched Champion
At this point, I may want to try some number of stars over springleaf drum, as we are running almost mono-2 drops, and it gives us something free to sac however it will slow us down, so I'm hesitant to try that.
As for a Shrapnel Blast list:
2 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Etched Champion
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
4 Galvanic Blast
2 Shrapnel Blast
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Glimmervoid
1 Mountain
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 ???
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Thoughtseize
1 Wear // Tear
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
2 Whipflare
1 Dismember
2 Etched Champion
Because I havent missed Inkmoth Nexus much, I'm going to be re-trying my Tempered Steel list as Hangarback Walker and Tempered Steel sounds dirty.
3 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
1 Steel Overseer
4 Vault Skirge
3 Etched Champion
4 Mox Opal
1 Welding Jar
2 Galvanic Blast
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
3 Tempered Steel
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Glimmervoid
2 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Plains
15 ???
The main deck steel overseer may be better as a Spellskite, and I may cut the 2nd Inkmoth for the 4th Darksteel Citadel, but I got my 16 white sources this way so we're gonna maybe try it.
And because to show I'm not completely nuts, in case my first PPTQ next weekend doesnt go well, I'll be going to this in the 2nd (or sooner if these lists dont show promise)
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Steel Overseer
1 Spellskite
2 Etched Champion
2 Master of Etherium
1 Welding Jar
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Glimmervoid
1 Mountain
1 Dispatch
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Thoughtseize
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Spellskite
1 Torpor Orb
2 Whipflare
2 Etched Champion
1 Hangarback Walker
1 Stubborn Denial
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Plus, Overseer doesnt put counters on Disciple or Atog. *shrug*
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
4x Arcbound Ravager
2x Atog
3x Disciple of the Vault
2x Etched Champion
3x Hangarback Walker
4x Ornithopter
4x Signal Pest
4x Vault Skirge
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Glimmervoid
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Mountain
Artifact (12)
4x Cranial Plating
4x Mox Opal
4x Springleaf Drum
Instant (6)
4x Galvanic Blast
2x Shrapnel Blast
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Blood Moon
2x Choke
2x Etched Champion
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Spellskite
1x Wear / Tear
2x Whipflare
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Gerry Thompson told me to try the Battle Rage. So I'm gonna try it. Its PROBABLY better as the Blast (or another card) but, I'm gonna try it regardless
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Cut some of the Mountains for Dual B/R lands, as you really want to cast Disciple.
If your running 6 sac outlets you also want multiple Disciples, so I would go to 4. Also like someone said, probably not a good idea to cut Memnites. The deck is already slow dont make it even more slow.
I still think Blinkmoth is better than Inkmoth in this version as you really want to just eek out every last point of life, and Inkmoth doesnt help taht race. Its different in the Overseer/classic Affinity lists where you go for poison kills more often (I think I win 20% of my games with poison in regular affinity, maybe a bit less), but I also think you can get away with 15 colored sources (or maybe even 14) and run 1 Inkmoth and 4 Blinkmoth (or 3/3 if you have 14 sources, or 2/4).
Blood Moon and Choke is a LOT of wasted space, and honestly I'm not as impressed with Blood Moon lately. I dont like it in the Junk matchup, I dont like it against Tron as we REALLY want our manlands to be turned on, and Amulet Bloom is on the very heavy decline. If you like it I would still go down to just 1, but defeinitely not 4 land enchantments that is an absurd amount.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Ill work with it a bit and see what I come up with next week.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
GW Death and Taxes WG
So I'm just gonna play Devil's advocate here:
both of those games against Twin, Day's did nothing. I was excited to see Day's do something there but sadly, when I played it today it did nothing. I drew nut hands and just didn't cast it, or when I did cast it I was already winning.
Against my Bloom opponent I cast Day's 5 times, all 5 times they won the game after it (even though I needed to cast it to try and overload him)
Against my Burn opponents 4 times it filed their hand with burn, I won the game 2 of 4 but the games where they had Eidolon I just could not cast it or I would lose the game. The games where I played like a regular affinity deck I won the game easily.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
You said you attacked for 10 and then days'd. Does that not mean you could have just attacked for 10 and won the game the next turn?
I just don't see examples of "I needed Day's to win this game" in most peoples reports. And I never hear of games where Day's won their opponents games I just hear the games where Days made them flood the board and win (in niche cases)
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
That statement is hyperbole, and for those of us actually interested in your results is not helpful.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Things to note about the Top 16: 2 Grixis lists overall only running 4 copies of K-command. Multiple Jund lists but only 4 copies of K-command and 6 copies of Abrupt Decay. Other Tier 2 decks like Hatebears, Bogles, Goryo's and Zoo appeared and with some hate with them as well.
I will be playing this list tomorrow at an event. I will give a play-by-play once it is over:
2 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Steel Overseer
2 Hangarback Walker
3 Etched Champion
2 Master of Etherium
4 Mox Opal
4 Cranial Plating
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Galvanic Blast
1 Mountain
3 Glimmervoid
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Inkmoth Nexus
Those are the questions I would like to know the answers to to determine if it is worthy of a spot.
The only argument I could give back to them is that it is sort of a back up plan because of being good if a board wipe happens.
I am going to try 2 and possibly 3 going forward and will also be running Master of Etherium since the walker CAN be played for 0 in that case (although not recommended). This way, it also lives if it gets "blinked" which happened to me on Friday.