I'm really intrigued at the potential of Courser of Kruphix, I think it could ad a huge element of deck manipulation. Does anyone have any thoughts on the appropriate amount to run, and also has anyone had any negative experiences with the card? Thanks.
I'm really intrigued at the potential of Courser of Kruphix, I think it could ad a huge element of deck manipulation. Does anyone have any thoughts on the appropriate amount to run, and also has anyone had any negative experiences with the card? Thanks.
I am running 2-ofs right now and it's pretty decent. It helps a lot against burn early and it filters as well.
Went 3-1 tonight, finishing 3rd in a small 12-man tourney.
W 2-1 Robots. He crushed me game one, but Ancient Grudge too good games two and three.
W 2-1 Naya Zoo. He crushed me game one because I saw no removal and he had triple Goblin Guide turn two. Next two games I saw kill spells.
L 0-2 GW Aggro/Hate-bears. He just kept landing hay-makers and I couldn't keep up with removal... Linvala, Resto Angel, Goyf, Baneslayer, and Wilt-Leaf Liege is an absolute beating for my deck.
W 2-1 UWR Control. Colonnades are tough to deal with as I am not running Tec Edge in my current build but turn 3 Phyrexian Arena is so good against him.
Honest thoughts on my build? I have not play-tested it against burn, delver or pod, as I just brewed it up tonight. Ajani was super good all night. I'd like to fit in one Tec Edge, and maybe another Abrupt Decay and another Liliana. In the board, do I need Grafdigger's Cage, a board wipe (damnation / anger / Volcanic Fallout), and Thrun? Arena is for control and BGx mirrors. Path [wurmcoil] and Salt are for tron which are all over my meta. Timely is for burn and delver. Slaughter Games is for Sphinx's Rev, Scapeshift and Living End.
I think Courser is a decent option, especially right now where the incidental lifegain and filtering helps fight the likes of Delver and Burn in various ways. He certainly gets better the longer the game goes on, but his value isn't as immediate as Dark Confidant's was. Still, as long as he sticks for a few turns, it's generally worth the mana investment. My only complaint is that he's really slow against combo decks and stuff like Affinity, where blocking is irrelevant and the extra land/life pings are too slow to matter. And as an attacker he is notably embarrassing compared with Goyf and Even Scooze.
My meta is still varied and doesn't feature a dearth of Delver or Burn, so Courser isn't necessary for me yet, and I still prefer a couple copies of Lingering Souls instead. But I have considered throwing Courser back in to the mix, and probably will try it out soon enough. I would probably recommend 2 copies as a starting point, since you really don't want too many expensive creatures and we already have 4 Rhinos crowding our top end. Additional copies are rarely great, and the first is usually going to stick, so drawing multiples isn't ideal.
@jblackmor, nice list. Ajundi is still a pretty powerful looking deck, but I think in the long run you are trying to do too much with your mana. Even when Deathrite Shaman was available this manabase was greedy, so you're really stretching your luck trying to fetch 4 colors in such an aggressive format without the "Mana Bird from Hell". With Delver and Burn as popular as they are, it's a big risk to take in my opinion. On top of that, you have six 4-drops, which are great cards but hard to justify without being able to spit them out a turn earlier (as was possible with DRS). Seige Rhino is defensible because it regains you life and really can help you stabilize, but unfortunately stuff like Ajani and Chandra are often too fragile to stick around very long if you are already behind on the board. I also don't like seeing only 2 copies of Liliana, as I tend to agree with GerryT that she's the reason to be in this deck in the first place.
In any case, if this list works for you at your local scene, keep on jamming it. I just think that there's a lot of risk in 4color Jund right now, and you will lose games that would have otherwise been winnable by a 3-color deck simply because your mana is so painful. The powerful haymakers will be great in the mirror and against other super-grindy decks, but Delver and Burn will run you over before you can get the full power of your deck online. Buyer Beware.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
@HomelandZecurity - it's the speed of Courser that concerns me. I'm playing KotR in place of Goyf so my 3 drops are already loaded. On the other hand, I feel like there is some synergy between Courser and KotR for some serious deck thinning/manipulation. I think 2 seems like the right amount because, as you said, drawing more isn't ideal. Gonna have to do some testing.
so I'm considering switching to the 'dark side';)
in looking thru a bunch of the decks posted on here, I had a couple questions...if the popularity of delver variants...I didn't see much for cards like zealous persecution or pontiff or golgari charm in MB (I did see a few with Damnation and many with drown in sorrow out of the board), any reason why?
Also, why so many copies of Ooze in the Main(3-4 often)...seems like a good portion of the time the 1st one is great, the rest are just bears, no?
Zealous and golgari charm aren't that good MB against certain decks. For MB against delver we have Scooze, Goyf, finks, courser, rhino, lily, abrupt decay, and inquisition, which are all good against other decks.
I used to run 3 Scooze MB and 1 SB but then I'd always side in the 4th Scooze. It's good against aggro, control, combo, and midrange.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
i'm still not decided about the last slot in side, any suggestion?
Damnation is a good one. Or the Sigarda/Thrun idea, but those seem less necessary with Rhinos in the deck. Batterskull is similarly resilient but gains you life, which might be relevant. But judging by your statement, you probably would benefit from the Damnation the most. I would also cut the Cranial Extraction for another Cage. Even if you meant Surgical Extraction, Cage is just better.
Not sure how I feel about the maindeck Fulminators. Sometimes they are useful, but they seem pretty lackluster against the faster decks compared with something like Courser or even Liliana. I also would push you to try a 25th land (likely Urborg). This deck is very top-heavy now and needs to hit land drops pretty bad. We are also missing Bob from the draw equation, and Scooze is quite mana intensive. I was running 25 lands pre-KTK and it was great then. Now I feel like it's pretty necessary.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Hello, I'm trying to step on the BGW shell but I don't own any goyfs, trying to get them though. I wanted to share my take on this archetype to see if you guys could recommend any improvements on how could I mitigate the lack of Tarmogoyf.
So far I've decided that the advantage I want to force is around ETB with Kitchen Finks and Siege Rhino, joined by Restoration Angel. This forces a lot of 2-for-1s in the interaction with oponents, improving the quality of the attrition game I want to provoke.
It's more BWg than BGw. I know that, it's reflected on the manabase. The thing is without goyfs, is hard to go BGx for me. So I've tried a lot of things:
4x Pack Rat - It's just not the same. The rats are either terrific or terrible, and don't feel like flipping a coin each game to see how good they would be.
2x Pack Rat + 2x Hooting Mandrils - Seemed ok, but, again, it's not the same. I was impressed by the mandrills though, they are easily cast at Goyf cost (not or T2 though) and the fact that they have trample, dodge bolt and decay is really good.
A few other tries that I'm not proud of having tested.
Finally decided that the best I could do with what I've got is running 2 Mandrills and 3 Restos with ETB interactions from Rhinos and Finks. So far, it looks good, though I can't really test it in tounaments since it's holidays eason and for some time I won't be able to play, so only with friends (Merfolk, UWR Control and UWR Delver).
Any feedback/advice/help will be much appreciated.
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In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
Anyone have detailed side boarding notes for the most common matchups? Even if your deck isn't the exact same I should be able to read a little out of it. I feel like I'm over side boarding.
i dont really like Damnation that much...i think explosives and sorrow are much better, letting your goyfs and rhinos alive. I'm in love with batterskull, i won tons of games thanks to him...but it is too slow for this meta imho and...no i meant Cranial Extraction x'D
what about the 25th land...i used to main an urborg too using 2 coursers...but i reduced lands, in order to avoid bad drows late game i know...fulminators can be really useless in some games such as ur delver, but it is almost the same (for example) considering 8 removal against scapeshift (pre-side ofc) x'D
i can't actually decide how to build MB and SB...these colors offer us too many choices ahahah
I think you might be underestimating Damnation quite a bit. Granted, I don't think it's as good in the current meta right now as it was 6 months ago, but you had mentioned wanting perhaps another sweeper, so I gave you the best option in our colors.
When you are planning on using Damnation, you generally can hold back at least one or two of your better threats, and just play out the cards that will stall your opponent. Often, even if you have to lose a Goyf or something, it's not a big deal since you wiped their entire team. Whether you get a 4-for-1 or simply a 2-for-1 with Damnation is irrelevant, as long as you are in a winning position afterwards. And most of the time you will be. Again, you are generally bringing it in for matchups where you are facing a lot of creatures, which likely means you have to play more reactive spells and won't have enough time to develop your board anyway. If for some reason you've already played out a Rhino and Goyf and they're still in play on turn 5 when you draw the random Damnation, then there is probably little reason to use the sweeper and you are already sitting pretty. But it's a great spell to hold onto in case the game swings for some odd reason and they deal with your threats. Killing your own guys is not that big of a downside when you realize you can easily play around it and set up a good blowout, and that you've already gotten value out of many of your creatures anyway by then (blocking, draining life, coursering, scoozing, etc). And the flexibility more than makes up for the potential inability to Plague Wind your opponent.
Drown in Sorrow is great, but will still often do too little too late against the likes of Pod, Zoo, and any other random deck with Green creatures. Affinity can even get around it pretty easily with a few guys, depending on their build, and we already have trouble dealing with their manlands post-sweeper as is. Explosives is a good card, but will often cost you just as much as Damnation to only sweep half the board. You can either get Pyromancer, or his tokens. You can get Delvers or Swiftspears. You can hit either Etched Champ, Thopter/Memnite, or all the 1-drops. Too often in my opinion, you have to leave behind more than enough creatures to finish you off post-Explosives. It's still a great card, but I'm just illustrating why Damnation is often even greater. The only major downside is that it is more vulnerable to soft countermagic (including Remand), which is a strike against it in the Delver matchups. But as a single copy to reset a game, it's a risk you have to take. At some point, their counterspells won't matter, or they simply won't have it.
Against the likes of Pod, Bogles, Affinity, Zoo, Tokens, the mirror, and even Delver, Damnation is really good. I'd urge you to try it before dismissing it.
As for Cranial Extraction, I will admit I was being dismissive, and forgot that Cranial allowed you to choose the card, unlike Surgical. I realize the difference now, and I get why you'd play it (Scapeshift). Personally, I'd rather have something like Aven Mindcensor, but to each their own.
I feel like the core of the deck is very solid, but doesn't have the same tempo that the deck has with goyf. I was also debating using Doran, the Siege Tower in place of KotR. While he doesn't grow bigger than a 5/5, he does make your rhinos and coursers hit much harder. I also like the idea of the Bow of Nylea in the main. Great against delver, incidental life gain against burn and other decks.
Without goyf I am not sure what I else I could put in.
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Current Decks
Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
This is my iteration of Hitomi's recent top 8 Junk list. I've changed cards, most notably added in Bob. I really like his ability to keep up with tempo and generate more card advantage off the backs of Liliana and Thought seize/IoK.
I don't have much experience with the deck or its SB. I'm currently in the testing stage. Please tell me what you think, and give me some background on both your experience with the deck as well as your reflections on matchups with Bob in your lists.
i think it's not a really good thing playing a set of rhinos with confidants. i miss them really much but it's really not productive...you often hope drawing into rhino to gain that life you are missing...losing 4 to gain 3 makes rhino almost useless imho :/
okay you could be lucky reveling lands and drawing rhinos but...it can't always happen
But you're not recognizing the whole picture. Flipping Rhino to Bob accomplishes these things:
1. Draws you an extra card
2. You lose 1 life from the exchange once you cast Rhino
3. You get a 4/5 Trample for cmc 4
4. You point a bump in the night at your opponent's face for free
So you're up 1 card, a 4/5 trample body, your opponent lost 3 life, and you lost 1 life.
i think it's not a really good thing playing a set of rhinos with confidants. i miss them really much but it's really not productive...you often hope drawing into rhino to gain that life you are missing...losing 4 to gain 3 makes rhino almost useless imho :/
okay you could be lucky reveling lands and drawing rhinos but...it can't always happen
But you're not recognizing the whole picture. Flipping Rhino to Bob accomplishes these things:
1. Draws you an extra card
2. You lose 1 life from the exchange once you cast Rhino
3. You get a 4/5 Trample for cmc 4
4. You point a bump in the night at your opponent's face for free
So you're up 1 card, a 4/5 trample body, your opponent lost 3 life, and you lost 1 life.
I'd take that all day long.
you would have got the rhino on field the same, even without bob. rhinos are being played mainly for the life gain....it's pointless using them if you are going to loose 1 life to get it on field...
Rhino isn't played just for the lifegain. Neither is Kitchen Finks for that matter. Nobody plays pure lifegain spells. As far as I know Healing Salve hasn't been played since 1993. People play Rhino and Finks becaues they're 2-for-1's and part of the benefit is gaining life in a deck that can use some incidental lifegain. If a deck attempts to take advantage of 2-for-1's then it's a deck focused on incrimental advantages. Bob is one of the best at helping that goal. Yes, everything I listed minus the extra card can be said of just casting Rhino without having Bob. But Bob is probably what got you to the Rhino in the first place, and he's also digging you into your other powerful spells.
I often side Dark Confidant out of matchups where my life total is in jeopardy very quickly. But in my opinion it takes a very skewed local meta game to cut him from your main deck.
mmm I've played damnation for a while when i played jund some time ago, and i perfectly agree with what you just said me but i think that i'playing those mass removal cards mainly as hate against decks with a big number of little haters such as tokens. usually we have many ways to get rid of big menaces (liliana, dismember, pact) but i often need something for swarming decks.
now, talking about the side in/out....considering the list on the top of the page, here you are mine
Would you mind posting your deck list please? Your deck is not exactly the same as mine, but very similar. It would really help me to visualize the 60 you are putting out in each matchup. A lot of this matches where I'm starting to get with my own sideboard strategy. I only have 35 matches or so with this deck, and am fairly new to Modern in general so my biggest problem is trying to figure out siding with so few iterations versus any deck save UR Delver. I can see I'm not pulling Liliana enough, and I feel like I should give Timely Reinforcements a try. I've only run into Burn once in those matchups and won 2-1 without it, and against UR Delver I'm 2-3, vs Temur Delver 2-0. Still not enough to say anything one way or the other, but I have a feeling more matchups against Burn could turn problematic. I also have never run into Merfolk, and I can see how Engineered Explosives would be real good there. I personally hate running 2 Drown in Sorrow in my sideboard, and an Explosives seems like it will be just the trick.
Anyway I appreciate the detailed response, and again if you're willing to post your full 75 it will probably help me in thinking through my own sideboarding and maybe help me clean out some of the chaff I might not need very frequently.
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I am running 2-ofs right now and it's pretty decent. It helps a lot against burn early and it filters as well.
Modern.
GBW Junk
GBR Jund
UG Infect
So, I'm a Jund-lifer.
Currently been play-testing Junk (abzan) [[and Burn]] for GP Omaha but I've been missing Lightning bolt from Junk, so I brewed this up.
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Siege Rhino
Planeswalkers
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Discard
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Duress
Kill Spells
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
1 Dismember
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Blood Crypt
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Raging Ravine
1 Twilight Mire
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Golgari Charm
1 Drown in Sorrow
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Phyrexian Arena
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Path to Exile
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Sowing Salt
1 Slaughter Games
Went 3-1 tonight, finishing 3rd in a small 12-man tourney.
W 2-1 Robots. He crushed me game one, but Ancient Grudge too good games two and three.
W 2-1 Naya Zoo. He crushed me game one because I saw no removal and he had triple Goblin Guide turn two. Next two games I saw kill spells.
L 0-2 GW Aggro/Hate-bears. He just kept landing hay-makers and I couldn't keep up with removal... Linvala, Resto Angel, Goyf, Baneslayer, and Wilt-Leaf Liege is an absolute beating for my deck.
W 2-1 UWR Control. Colonnades are tough to deal with as I am not running Tec Edge in my current build but turn 3 Phyrexian Arena is so good against him.
Honest thoughts on my build? I have not play-tested it against burn, delver or pod, as I just brewed it up tonight. Ajani was super good all night. I'd like to fit in one Tec Edge, and maybe another Abrupt Decay and another Liliana. In the board, do I need Grafdigger's Cage, a board wipe (damnation / anger / Volcanic Fallout), and Thrun? Arena is for control and BGx mirrors. Path [wurmcoil] and Salt are for tron which are all over my meta. Timely is for burn and delver. Slaughter Games is for Sphinx's Rev, Scapeshift and Living End.
I think Courser is a decent option, especially right now where the incidental lifegain and filtering helps fight the likes of Delver and Burn in various ways. He certainly gets better the longer the game goes on, but his value isn't as immediate as Dark Confidant's was. Still, as long as he sticks for a few turns, it's generally worth the mana investment. My only complaint is that he's really slow against combo decks and stuff like Affinity, where blocking is irrelevant and the extra land/life pings are too slow to matter. And as an attacker he is notably embarrassing compared with Goyf and Even Scooze.
My meta is still varied and doesn't feature a dearth of Delver or Burn, so Courser isn't necessary for me yet, and I still prefer a couple copies of Lingering Souls instead. But I have considered throwing Courser back in to the mix, and probably will try it out soon enough. I would probably recommend 2 copies as a starting point, since you really don't want too many expensive creatures and we already have 4 Rhinos crowding our top end. Additional copies are rarely great, and the first is usually going to stick, so drawing multiples isn't ideal.
@jblackmor, nice list. Ajundi is still a pretty powerful looking deck, but I think in the long run you are trying to do too much with your mana. Even when Deathrite Shaman was available this manabase was greedy, so you're really stretching your luck trying to fetch 4 colors in such an aggressive format without the "Mana Bird from Hell". With Delver and Burn as popular as they are, it's a big risk to take in my opinion. On top of that, you have six 4-drops, which are great cards but hard to justify without being able to spit them out a turn earlier (as was possible with DRS). Seige Rhino is defensible because it regains you life and really can help you stabilize, but unfortunately stuff like Ajani and Chandra are often too fragile to stick around very long if you are already behind on the board. I also don't like seeing only 2 copies of Liliana, as I tend to agree with GerryT that she's the reason to be in this deck in the first place.
In any case, if this list works for you at your local scene, keep on jamming it. I just think that there's a lot of risk in 4color Jund right now, and you will lose games that would have otherwise been winnable by a 3-color deck simply because your mana is so painful. The powerful haymakers will be great in the mirror and against other super-grindy decks, but Delver and Burn will run you over before you can get the full power of your deck online. Buyer Beware.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
in looking thru a bunch of the decks posted on here, I had a couple questions...if the popularity of delver variants...I didn't see much for cards like zealous persecution or pontiff or golgari charm in MB (I did see a few with Damnation and many with drown in sorrow out of the board), any reason why?
Also, why so many copies of Ooze in the Main(3-4 often)...seems like a good portion of the time the 1st one is great, the rest are just bears, no?
- anyone try a copy or 2 of restoration angel?
thanks
I used to run 3 Scooze MB and 1 SB but then I'd always side in the 4th Scooze. It's good against aggro, control, combo, and midrange.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Damnation is a good one. Or the Sigarda/Thrun idea, but those seem less necessary with Rhinos in the deck. Batterskull is similarly resilient but gains you life, which might be relevant. But judging by your statement, you probably would benefit from the Damnation the most. I would also cut the Cranial Extraction for another Cage. Even if you meant Surgical Extraction, Cage is just better.
Not sure how I feel about the maindeck Fulminators. Sometimes they are useful, but they seem pretty lackluster against the faster decks compared with something like Courser or even Liliana. I also would push you to try a 25th land (likely Urborg). This deck is very top-heavy now and needs to hit land drops pretty bad. We are also missing Bob from the draw equation, and Scooze is quite mana intensive. I was running 25 lands pre-KTK and it was great then. Now I feel like it's pretty necessary.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
So far I've decided that the advantage I want to force is around ETB with Kitchen Finks and Siege Rhino, joined by Restoration Angel. This forces a lot of 2-for-1s in the interaction with oponents, improving the quality of the attrition game I want to provoke.
The list:
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Kitchen Finks
3x Restoration Angel
4x Siege Rhino
2x Hooting Mandrills
Disruption (17):
1x Slaughter Pact
3x Path to Exile
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Dismember
3x Liliana of the Veil
3x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
Support (5):
4x Lingering Souls
1x Batterskull
4x Marsh Flats
2x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
2x Godless Shrine
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Temple Garden
1x Fetid Heath
1x Woodland Cemetery
1x Stirring Wildwood
2x Treetop Village
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Swamp
2x Plains
1x Forest
1x Damnation
2x Relic of Progenitus
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Celestial Purge
2x Spellskite
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Choke
1x Timely Reinforcements
It's more BWg than BGw. I know that, it's reflected on the manabase. The thing is without goyfs, is hard to go BGx for me. So I've tried a lot of things:
Finally decided that the best I could do with what I've got is running 2 Mandrills and 3 Restos with ETB interactions from Rhinos and Finks. So far, it looks good, though I can't really test it in tounaments since it's holidays eason and for some time I won't be able to play, so only with friends (Merfolk, UWR Control and UWR Delver).
Any feedback/advice/help will be much appreciated.
Would BGW be a better choice for the meta by chance ?
BG/x BG
ur delver:resolved siege rhino=helix and big dumb 4/5
I think you might be underestimating Damnation quite a bit. Granted, I don't think it's as good in the current meta right now as it was 6 months ago, but you had mentioned wanting perhaps another sweeper, so I gave you the best option in our colors.
When you are planning on using Damnation, you generally can hold back at least one or two of your better threats, and just play out the cards that will stall your opponent. Often, even if you have to lose a Goyf or something, it's not a big deal since you wiped their entire team. Whether you get a 4-for-1 or simply a 2-for-1 with Damnation is irrelevant, as long as you are in a winning position afterwards. And most of the time you will be. Again, you are generally bringing it in for matchups where you are facing a lot of creatures, which likely means you have to play more reactive spells and won't have enough time to develop your board anyway. If for some reason you've already played out a Rhino and Goyf and they're still in play on turn 5 when you draw the random Damnation, then there is probably little reason to use the sweeper and you are already sitting pretty. But it's a great spell to hold onto in case the game swings for some odd reason and they deal with your threats. Killing your own guys is not that big of a downside when you realize you can easily play around it and set up a good blowout, and that you've already gotten value out of many of your creatures anyway by then (blocking, draining life, coursering, scoozing, etc). And the flexibility more than makes up for the potential inability to Plague Wind your opponent.
Drown in Sorrow is great, but will still often do too little too late against the likes of Pod, Zoo, and any other random deck with Green creatures. Affinity can even get around it pretty easily with a few guys, depending on their build, and we already have trouble dealing with their manlands post-sweeper as is. Explosives is a good card, but will often cost you just as much as Damnation to only sweep half the board. You can either get Pyromancer, or his tokens. You can get Delvers or Swiftspears. You can hit either Etched Champ, Thopter/Memnite, or all the 1-drops. Too often in my opinion, you have to leave behind more than enough creatures to finish you off post-Explosives. It's still a great card, but I'm just illustrating why Damnation is often even greater. The only major downside is that it is more vulnerable to soft countermagic (including Remand), which is a strike against it in the Delver matchups. But as a single copy to reset a game, it's a risk you have to take. At some point, their counterspells won't matter, or they simply won't have it.
Against the likes of Pod, Bogles, Affinity, Zoo, Tokens, the mirror, and even Delver, Damnation is really good. I'd urge you to try it before dismissing it.
As for Cranial Extraction, I will admit I was being dismissive, and forgot that Cranial allowed you to choose the card, unlike Surgical. I realize the difference now, and I get why you'd play it (Scapeshift). Personally, I'd rather have something like Aven Mindcensor, but to each their own.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
1x Dismember
2x Disfigure
3x Path to Exile
4x Abrupt Decay
Sorcery
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
1x Duress
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Lingering Souls
3x Scavenging Ooze
1x Birds of Paradise
2x Courser of Kruphix
4x Siege Rhino
4x Knight of the Reliquary
Artifacts
1x Bow of Nylea
Land
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Forest
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Godless Shrine
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Temple Garden
2x Swamp
3x Windswept Heath
3x Marsh Flats
4x Treetop Village
1x Plains
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
I feel like the core of the deck is very solid, but doesn't have the same tempo that the deck has with goyf. I was also debating using Doran, the Siege Tower in place of KotR. While he doesn't grow bigger than a 5/5, he does make your rhinos and coursers hit much harder. I also like the idea of the Bow of Nylea in the main. Great against delver, incidental life gain against burn and other decks.
Without goyf I am not sure what I else I could put in.
I don't have much experience with the deck or its SB. I'm currently in the testing stage. Please tell me what you think, and give me some background on both your experience with the deck as well as your reflections on matchups with Bob in your lists.
1x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Tectonic Edge
2x Temple Garden
3x Treetop Village
2x Twilight Mire
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
2x Darkblast
1x Dismember
1x Slaughter Pact
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Lingering Souls
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
3x Dark Confidant
3x Scavenging Ooze
4x Siege Rhino
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Aven Mindcensor
1x Batterskull
2x Drown in Sorrow
1x Golgari Charm
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Obstinate Baloth
2x Stony Silence
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
3x Timely Reinforcements
I´ve had the same idea for a while but just a U splash for Treasure Cruise. I´d probably cut Bob from such a list.
[edit]Also for a Spellskite or three in the mix somewhere.[/edit]
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
1. Draws you an extra card
2. You lose 1 life from the exchange once you cast Rhino
3. You get a 4/5 Trample for cmc 4
4. You point a bump in the night at your opponent's face for free
So you're up 1 card, a 4/5 trample body, your opponent lost 3 life, and you lost 1 life.
I'd take that all day long.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I often side Dark Confidant out of matchups where my life total is in jeopardy very quickly. But in my opinion it takes a very skewed local meta game to cut him from your main deck.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Would you mind posting your deck list please? Your deck is not exactly the same as mine, but very similar. It would really help me to visualize the 60 you are putting out in each matchup. A lot of this matches where I'm starting to get with my own sideboard strategy. I only have 35 matches or so with this deck, and am fairly new to Modern in general so my biggest problem is trying to figure out siding with so few iterations versus any deck save UR Delver. I can see I'm not pulling Liliana enough, and I feel like I should give Timely Reinforcements a try. I've only run into Burn once in those matchups and won 2-1 without it, and against UR Delver I'm 2-3, vs Temur Delver 2-0. Still not enough to say anything one way or the other, but I have a feeling more matchups against Burn could turn problematic. I also have never run into Merfolk, and I can see how Engineered Explosives would be real good there. I personally hate running 2 Drown in Sorrow in my sideboard, and an Explosives seems like it will be just the trick.
Anyway I appreciate the detailed response, and again if you're willing to post your full 75 it will probably help me in thinking through my own sideboarding and maybe help me clean out some of the chaff I might not need very frequently.