Both are from MTGO Premier events. /Sorry it says 'SaintA' deck, but I listed the player names who played them.
I like the second one for it's up in your face aggro. Coralhelm Commanders + Land Denial and a whole load of Lords (16-20!). But the first one seems much more stable/consistent, except for the Scalding Tarns??
Matt, I like the single mindedness of it as well. Merfolk seems pretty 'scattered' right now and that deck is just, LAY Folks! The Teck edge + Seas is the only secondary plan (which shouldn't slow down plan A).
Right now our decks seem to want to a) put down dudes b) protect them c) shut out their mana and spells (counters/seas/chalice).
Maybe it's time to give up the dream and just go one sided?
The case against Spell Snare; I played it yesterday, and I wanted to 'snap snare' anything. It really has a few juicy targets that you don't want to waste holding up a mana for it, so it's not as effective as it seems. I would rather have Spell Pierce to protect my guys instead of 'deny' them something (usually Snapcaster/Tarmogoyf).
I'd never run 0 counterspells, if only to be able to represent them. Dropping Mutavault for tec seems like a very bad idea, and four Phantasmals makes me shudder. 10 playsets of aggro seems great on paper but without disruption to back it up you could just as well run 22 swamp 38 Relentless Rats. The sideboard is also terrible, what deck asks for 4 Relics nowadays?
Stark's list looks better to me, although the Scalding Tarns are a bit silly
Both decks are running the, 'I lose to Affinity, so I don't care' Sideboards
The 4 Relics aren't there for any body in particular. I think he has them just for stopping Pod's combo and drawing/cycling cards, and keep Tarmo/Snapcaster inactive. Our deck hates Bolt/Snap/Bolt (GG!).
I like the Spellskites main (you can Vial/redirect removal as a surprise). Also another small 'innovation' is Mutagenic Growth/Appostles Blessing.
Do we just want to keep our Lords alive and we win?
I'll be honest, I don't think either list really makes a ton of sense. If I had to choose I'd definitely go with Stark's list, but both decks have 0 maindeck counterspells, which I really don't like, and the sideboards of both decks are really, really messy. 4 phantasmal image has been mostly good in my experience, but 4 coralhelm commanders seems awful. Coralhelm Commander and Master of Waves both do basically the same thing (provide a powerful, but expensive mid-game threat), but coralhelm commander costs you 6 mana and can be bolted to death after you've already invested lots of mana in leveling it. If I'm gonna play an expensive powerhouse card I want it to pose a real, significant threat to my opponent that can't be dealt with easily and for most decks in the format Master of Waves fills that spot nicely. If you really wanted to play coralhelm commander in your deck I'd recommend it as no more than a 1-2 of.
Meanwhile, those sideboards are pretty dreadful. Stark's is mostly okay, though I've never really been satisfied playing dispel. Also, hibernation is, in my opinion, a pretty weak sideboard card in modern and playing it as a 4-of is completely insane. As for buddaf's list, 4-of relic is way overkill and echoing truth should be a 1-of maximum, but probably just shouldn't be in the board in the first place. Also, I feel like Mutavault is a much stronger utility land than tec edge, though I'm willing to believe I'm wrong. That said, if you're gonna play tec edge as a 4-of it doesn't make a whole lot of sense not to play some number of spell pierces in the maindeck since the two synergize pretty well.
EDIT: I'm also not satisfied with the "lose to affinity" board plan. Sure the matchup is bad, but post-board it can be largely solved with 2-3 hurkyl's recalls and some other splash hate cards. It'll still be bad, but very winnable. I think you really just can't ignore the most popular deck in modern in your board, especially when it's so easy to board against. That said, these decks are on MTGO where hurkyl's recall is something like $25-30 so this should be taken with a grain of salt. If you can't afford to play recalls then I can see giving up on the MU being the next-best approach.
I can see the reasoning of the affinity-less sideboard plan, but I don't agree with it. Even though it is a terrible matchup for us, it's way too common of a deck to just ignore. With two Hurkyl's Recall solely for them, and Chalice and Pithing covering Affinity together with several other decks, Merfolk does stand a fighting chance. G2 and 3 can also only be better than G1, since very few Affinity decks run a sb with something that can hurt us.
Have you ever played with this card, he is insane. I am almost always happy to draw one. Merfolk has a ton of fantastic targets (basically every creature we run) and he is super relevant in a lot of match ups like Zoo, Tron, Pod etc etc. Granted some match ups you definitely want to side board him out but i wouldn't let that deter you from playing it.
I usually run 2, it is definitely an amazing card. However, it is also a very risky card that can quickly make you get 2-for-1'd if you play him with only one other creature on the field, and copying something from your opponent, while nice, doesn't really advance your gameplan unless it's some big beater like goyf. I'd definitely run 2, maybe 3, but 4 I think is too risky
I've had both amazing plays with Phantasmal (vialing him in to copy an opposing Vendilion Clique and removing Splinter Twin eot) and awful plays with him (having two Phantasmals and a Sivergill stuk in hand against UWr) and in my experience it's a card you want to see once every game but not twice
I have to disagree, I am not unhappy to see it multiple times. Vialing it in copying reejery and dropping your hand is very real. I think the only match up it is really bad in is the UWR control match up when you are happy to sb it out for hate.
I usually Image an Adept. That way you get your card advantage back even if there is a Lord to copy. It's usually not worth the card loss. Against Twin, side him out
Out of the lists you posted, I liked the second more, but both had some flaws, including some underwhelming md choices, and bad sideboards.
As for phantasmal, I run three atm, and I never feel like I have too many. Still not sure I'd run four, but three is amazing. The card does just let you do a lot, draw more cards copying a silvergill if you need to, make lords bigger, more cursecatchers, more master of waves, or copy goyfs, pestermites to tap down their pestermite in response to twin, etc.
One game recently I aether vialled in a phantasmal, copying my opponent's snapcaster, targetting my own vapor snag to bounce his collonnades and win the game next turn. Felt good. Also easy to cast. So yeah, great, versatile card.
hey just picked up the deck and really enjoying it. was wondering what everyone thinks of thassa? is she just a win-more card for this deck? sorry if i missed the previous discussion. anyways heres my mainboard
Hey guys played first modern tournament with fish last night went 4-1 not a bad showing. Here is my decklist
3 cosi's trickster (under performed but I hate cursecatcher)
4 lord of atlantis
4 silvergill adept
4 master of the pearl trident
4 phantasmal image (All Star)
1 Coralhelm commander
4 merrow reejerey
1 kira, Great glass spinner
3 master of waves
4 AEther vial
4 Vapor snag
3 spreading Sea's
3 Mutavault
2 cavern of souls
16 Island
SB:
3 spellskite
4 Hurkyl's recall
2 Chalice of the void (Great)
2 Graffdiggers Cage
2 Tidebinder mage (not to impressed)
2 Spell Pierce
Round 1 Soul Sisters
Game one
Lead off with vial and curved perfectly into multiple lords turn 6 swing 30 island walk
game two I Stole it
her curved great I was slow
he had 3 soul sisters on the board turn 2 followed by turn 3 ascendant on board
finally drew into lord after lord had 3 lords on board 2 mutavault and 2 silvergills im at 6 opponent at 60 top deck spreading seas swing 32 go's to 28 turning off ascendant.
Round 2 Affinity
Stole game one opponent didn't know merfolk well dropped hand it seamed turn 1 then turn 2 arcbound ravager turn 3 he attacks with inkmoth before damage sacrificed entire board to archbound puts 9 counters on inkmoth for 10 infect I vapor snag.
game 2 slowed him down with a few hurkyl's but cant get it.
game 3
im on the play drop chalice of the void for 0 he scoops shows me had 5 0 CC cards in hand.
Round 3 Vengvine
Good match up we are more agro opponent got pissed he lost 2-0 to merfolk cage outta board screwed him.
Round 4 Boggles
Game one we both go off I win at 2 life
game 2 double daybreak coronet loss
game 3 most epic game of night
he has 8/8 boggle with lifelink and spirit link hes at 19 I got 18 merfolk power on board with island walk active and 4 2/1 elemental tokens for multiple masters. need to top deck another lord to win and don't since if he blocked elementals we would have gain enough life to go to 3 and swings next turn for the win.
Round 5 POD
he takes game one perty handedly
game 2 and 3 he draws blanks toward end of the game and cage shuts off pod shenanigans.
Overall I think deack did great tricksters weren't that great probably take them out for more 2 drop's
thinking of takin out tide binder for 2 hibernation in the board really hurts boggles and pod.
in play testing I was very disappointed with thassa, doesn't affect board enough to matter but after a tournament in my belt and a lot of attrition wars I think thassa might earn a one of spot can help filter your draws
Not to fond of, '1 ofs' unless you have some tutor, mass card draw etc. 1 Thassa is pretty irrelevant, you could have her or cut her and finding out her impact is almost impossible. All information will be biased (ie if you randomly draw her and win, you're biased to think she's great, if draw her and lose, you're biased to think she's not). Pretty much cut her, as I would rather have something else (ie Random Master of the Waves or 2).
I thought Master was bad, but I think he's great as a 2 of. The only removal is red or Paths. Maybe even 3?? He turns losses into wins, I love that. You can have ALL of your Lords removed (it happens), the TD Master and it's basically game over (why? Spreading Seas etc). Won many a grindy game with Master + 2 Tokens. (Playtesting vs any control deck shows he's the key card).
Kira is OK, but I think Spellskite is just better. You can vial in and redirect, whereas Kira doesn't let you synergize. She basically has to be out first and that's just odd considering she costs 3 (do you up the Vial to 3? Wait for 3 Land?). And we are already pre-sideboarded for Twin and Boggles
Also going back to 'bad' counterspells that cost 2 Mana over Spell Snare/Spell Pierce. I'll be running Mana Leaks (FULL CIRCLE!) and Dispels in the board vs anything semi-controlly or bolt/path/electrolyze happy.
/Getting ready for GP: Minneapolis! Anyone else going?? I might waste all this time and shotgun Jund, which would be sad day for Folks.
Master of waves is boss. 3 ideal number you always want to see him but want to lower chances of 2 in first 10 cards. I tinkers with modern folk a year a go just for fun I think master single handedly made fish go from tier 2 to tier 1.5 ill be honest fish will never be tier one and im ok with that I don't like playing tier one decks. kira has been great for me I have no issues ticking vial to 3 to they can path my guy and vial in kira its great. if she wasn't legendary I would run her as a two of. I don't understand spell skite main deck we are an agro deck and skite in quite the opposite. I have found playtesting online that chalice of the void is great against UWR set to one (path,bolt,visions,spell snare etc.) affinity if you are on the play, Zoo, Burn and decent against storm as well. my local meta has 3 pod decks, 1 boggles and that new green nykthos craziness deck. im really excited to see how hibernation can do out of the board.
I don't know if this question has already been asked, but why do we run vapor snag instead of pongify? Is the bounce + 1 damage strictly more useful than flat-out turning a creature into a vanilla 3/3? Just need a more robust solution for Pod combos and wurmcoils.
Vapor snag disrupts their tempo but what sets it over the top is the ability to bounce our guys to save them. I think I did last night was cast master for 4 tokens then vial in another master for 5 tokens eot snap a master and revial in for 5 more tokens. it has multiple purposes
I will say I tested 1 dismember main for a while and didn't like it much have noticed we are at low life at the end of a lot of games. pongify might work better then dismemeber
kira has been great for me I have no issues ticking vial to 3 to they can path my guy and vial in kira its great. if she wasn't legendary I would run her as a two of. I don't understand spell skite main deck we are an agro deck and skite in quite the opposite.
The Path will resolve and won't be countered (ie you are using Kira incorrectly). You are making the case FOR Spellskite with your example She has to be IN play when the spell is announced and targets are chosen. Spellskite is your man if you want to Vial/redirect.
And Spellskite is the man because if your Lords die, you don't have an aggro plan anymore. The hard matchups are where they go Bolt, Path, Snapcaster, Electrolyze etc etc. It's easy when they never kill our guys!
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'MTGOStark'
11 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
2 Master of Waves
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
3 Spellskite
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Aether Vial
4 Spreading Seas
4 Vapor Snag
2 Dispel
2 Echoing Truth
4 Hibernation
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spell Pierce
OR 'buddaf'
4 Tectonic Edge
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Aether Vial
4 Spreading Seas
4 Vapor Snag
4 Echoing Truth
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Spell Pierce
Both are from MTGO Premier events. /Sorry it says 'SaintA' deck, but I listed the player names who played them.
I like the second one for it's up in your face aggro. Coralhelm Commanders + Land Denial and a whole load of Lords (16-20!). But the first one seems much more stable/consistent, except for the Scalding Tarns??
Right now our decks seem to want to a) put down dudes b) protect them c) shut out their mana and spells (counters/seas/chalice).
Maybe it's time to give up the dream and just go one sided?
The case against Spell Snare; I played it yesterday, and I wanted to 'snap snare' anything. It really has a few juicy targets that you don't want to waste holding up a mana for it, so it's not as effective as it seems. I would rather have Spell Pierce to protect my guys instead of 'deny' them something (usually Snapcaster/Tarmogoyf).
Stark's list looks better to me, although the Scalding Tarns are a bit silly
The 4 Relics aren't there for any body in particular. I think he has them just for stopping Pod's combo and drawing/cycling cards, and keep Tarmo/Snapcaster inactive. Our deck hates Bolt/Snap/Bolt (GG!).
I like the Spellskites main (you can Vial/redirect removal as a surprise). Also another small 'innovation' is Mutagenic Growth/Appostles Blessing.
Do we just want to keep our Lords alive and we win?
Meanwhile, those sideboards are pretty dreadful. Stark's is mostly okay, though I've never really been satisfied playing dispel. Also, hibernation is, in my opinion, a pretty weak sideboard card in modern and playing it as a 4-of is completely insane. As for buddaf's list, 4-of relic is way overkill and echoing truth should be a 1-of maximum, but probably just shouldn't be in the board in the first place. Also, I feel like Mutavault is a much stronger utility land than tec edge, though I'm willing to believe I'm wrong. That said, if you're gonna play tec edge as a 4-of it doesn't make a whole lot of sense not to play some number of spell pierces in the maindeck since the two synergize pretty well.
EDIT: I'm also not satisfied with the "lose to affinity" board plan. Sure the matchup is bad, but post-board it can be largely solved with 2-3 hurkyl's recalls and some other splash hate cards. It'll still be bad, but very winnable. I think you really just can't ignore the most popular deck in modern in your board, especially when it's so easy to board against. That said, these decks are on MTGO where hurkyl's recall is something like $25-30 so this should be taken with a grain of salt. If you can't afford to play recalls then I can see giving up on the MU being the next-best approach.
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
Have you ever played with this card, he is insane. I am almost always happy to draw one. Merfolk has a ton of fantastic targets (basically every creature we run) and he is super relevant in a lot of match ups like Zoo, Tron, Pod etc etc. Granted some match ups you definitely want to side board him out but i wouldn't let that deter you from playing it.
I've had both amazing plays with Phantasmal (vialing him in to copy an opposing Vendilion Clique and removing Splinter Twin eot) and awful plays with him (having two Phantasmals and a Sivergill stuk in hand against UWr) and in my experience it's a card you want to see once every game but not twice
As for phantasmal, I run three atm, and I never feel like I have too many. Still not sure I'd run four, but three is amazing. The card does just let you do a lot, draw more cards copying a silvergill if you need to, make lords bigger, more cursecatchers, more master of waves, or copy goyfs, pestermites to tap down their pestermite in response to twin, etc.
One game recently I aether vialled in a phantasmal, copying my opponent's snapcaster, targetting my own vapor snag to bounce his collonnades and win the game next turn. Felt good. Also easy to cast. So yeah, great, versatile card.
4 Cursecather
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
2 Merrow Reejerey
2 Master of Waves
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Spell Pierce
4 Spreading Seas
3 Vapor Snag
1 Dismember
4 Mutavault
1 Cavern of Souls
im considering dropping kiras but shes just a blowout sometimes. sometimes i wish she were the third and forth reejerey though.
3 cosi's trickster (under performed but I hate cursecatcher)
4 lord of atlantis
4 silvergill adept
4 master of the pearl trident
4 phantasmal image (All Star)
1 Coralhelm commander
4 merrow reejerey
1 kira, Great glass spinner
3 master of waves
4 AEther vial
4 Vapor snag
3 spreading Sea's
3 Mutavault
2 cavern of souls
16 Island
SB:
3 spellskite
4 Hurkyl's recall
2 Chalice of the void (Great)
2 Graffdiggers Cage
2 Tidebinder mage (not to impressed)
2 Spell Pierce
Round 1 Soul Sisters
Game one
Lead off with vial and curved perfectly into multiple lords turn 6 swing 30 island walk
game two I Stole it
her curved great I was slow
he had 3 soul sisters on the board turn 2 followed by turn 3 ascendant on board
finally drew into lord after lord had 3 lords on board 2 mutavault and 2 silvergills im at 6 opponent at 60 top deck spreading seas swing 32 go's to 28 turning off ascendant.
Round 2 Affinity
Stole game one opponent didn't know merfolk well dropped hand it seamed turn 1 then turn 2 arcbound ravager turn 3 he attacks with inkmoth before damage sacrificed entire board to archbound puts 9 counters on inkmoth for 10 infect I vapor snag.
game 2 slowed him down with a few hurkyl's but cant get it.
game 3
im on the play drop chalice of the void for 0 he scoops shows me had 5 0 CC cards in hand.
Round 3 Vengvine
Good match up we are more agro opponent got pissed he lost 2-0 to merfolk cage outta board screwed him.
Round 4 Boggles
Game one we both go off I win at 2 life
game 2 double daybreak coronet loss
game 3 most epic game of night
he has 8/8 boggle with lifelink and spirit link hes at 19 I got 18 merfolk power on board with island walk active and 4 2/1 elemental tokens for multiple masters. need to top deck another lord to win and don't since if he blocked elementals we would have gain enough life to go to 3 and swings next turn for the win.
Round 5 POD
he takes game one perty handedly
game 2 and 3 he draws blanks toward end of the game and cage shuts off pod shenanigans.
Overall I think deack did great tricksters weren't that great probably take them out for more 2 drop's
thinking of takin out tide binder for 2 hibernation in the board really hurts boggles and pod.
any questions or ideas let me know.
Game
WDeath and Taxes
BGURDredge
Modern
WSoul Sisters
UMerfolk
WDeath and Taxes
BGURDredge
Modern
WSoul Sisters
UMerfolk
I thought Master was bad, but I think he's great as a 2 of. The only removal is red or Paths. Maybe even 3?? He turns losses into wins, I love that. You can have ALL of your Lords removed (it happens), the TD Master and it's basically game over (why? Spreading Seas etc). Won many a grindy game with Master + 2 Tokens. (Playtesting vs any control deck shows he's the key card).
Kira is OK, but I think Spellskite is just better. You can vial in and redirect, whereas Kira doesn't let you synergize. She basically has to be out first and that's just odd considering she costs 3 (do you up the Vial to 3? Wait for 3 Land?). And we are already pre-sideboarded for Twin and Boggles
Also going back to 'bad' counterspells that cost 2 Mana over Spell Snare/Spell Pierce. I'll be running Mana Leaks (FULL CIRCLE!) and Dispels in the board vs anything semi-controlly or bolt/path/electrolyze happy.
/Getting ready for GP: Minneapolis! Anyone else going?? I might waste all this time and shotgun Jund, which would be sad day for Folks.
WDeath and Taxes
BGURDredge
Modern
WSoul Sisters
UMerfolk
WDeath and Taxes
BGURDredge
Modern
WSoul Sisters
UMerfolk
WDeath and Taxes
BGURDredge
Modern
WSoul Sisters
UMerfolk
The Path will resolve and won't be countered (ie you are using Kira incorrectly). You are making the case FOR Spellskite with your example She has to be IN play when the spell is announced and targets are chosen. Spellskite is your man if you want to Vial/redirect.
And Spellskite is the man because if your Lords die, you don't have an aggro plan anymore. The hard matchups are where they go Bolt, Path, Snapcaster, Electrolyze etc etc. It's easy when they never kill our guys!