The problem with cards like Hall of Triumph (and Coat of Arms and Door of Destinies) is that they, by themselves, do nothing. We want to always draw threats to maintain pressure, so we'd run an extra Reejerey or Image first, who can attack (unlike Hall of Triumph). If we have creatures on the board who would benefit from an anthem (+1/+1) effect, we'd virtually always benefit more from simply drawing and playing another lord. Hall of Triumph (et al.) would benefit decks more whose creatures don't already give one another +1/+1.
I tested Dakra Mystic against combo today (Ad Nauseam, Storm, Scapeshift). It didn't quite seem to do enough against Storm (oh heck no I'm not gambling with the draw against them), but it punched Ad Nauseam in the face fast enough and it helped me dig for the Spell Pierce against Scapeshift's Cryptic Command (I won that game because I actually got to swing for lethal that turn)!
Yeah, a funny thing happened on the way to testing Dakra against combo--I started using its ability instead of always swinging with it.
...So Dakra is better overall against combo than Triton Shorestalker is (Dakra is a gazillion times better against board wipes and Cryptic, combo barely plays blockers and tends to spam Islands).
I'm starting to think that the best not-Cursecatcher 1-drop is a meta call.
Cosi's Trickster: Gets fat against Tron/Pod/Scapeshift/maybe UWR (although in my experience with it in a generic Mono-U Devotion deck, it got no bigger than 2/2 on average)
Mothdust Changeling: Can block stuff against UR Delver/Faeries/Twin/Affinity/Tokens/UWR, has Flying (so it has some evasion)
Triton Shorestalker: Is unblockable, so it can break board stalls against Jund/Pod/Faeries/GW Hatebears/Zoo/UWR Midrange/Tokens/Twin/Delver/Living End/Bogles
Dakra Mystic: Draw ability helps break board stalls (and fix bad opening hands) by digging for lords/Spreading Seas/removal, can dig for counterspells/hate (just might help your opponent dig for their win, though, so it's worse against unfair decks than against fair decks)
Note that Triton Shorestalker and Mothdust look pretty lame against combo, heavy control, and Burn (at least Dakra can dig for counterspells), while Cosi's Trickster looks lame against Zoo/Merfolk/GW Hatebears/D&T/Burn/Affinity and might have the most useless body when played late-game, and Dakra comes with no guarantees (so Triton is better overall if all you fear are board stalls, and you'd probably rather play Cosi's Trickster against combo because at least it has a nonzero chance of being a 2/2).
Yah pretty sure the card choices don't change much with what is in Jou, which is a little disappointing. I don't think any MD changes should be made, and you really just choose between the version of the deck with 1 drops (catcher/cosi's) and the version without. And both seem to be pretty strong. And sideboard choices are of course meta dependent.
Finally have my first two cavern of souls and immediately threw them into the fish deck. Also got my second force of will yesterday, winning an EDH event, going 4-0 (8-0 in games) with a personalized zoo list. So slowly getting the cards for the legacy list, and even thinking about making a merfolk edh list (really mono blue or blue/white merfolks + usual shenanigans like counterspells, vendillion clique, jitte, jaces and the like).
There is another modern event at my LGS tonight, not sure I will make it since I have a dinner first. Fingers crossed.
Personally, I like the build with 12 lords, 4 Image and no one drops. I understand the reasoning behind wanting the one drops in the deck, but I just feel that as of right now, what is available is just not strong enough in Modern to warrant inclusion. Since you can open Spell Pierce mana and drop Vial early, I rather play like that. Sadly it leaves little room to move and my list has only 3 flex slots. So it's not for everyone.
When Mystic is out I shall test, but I feel like I will end up back with the same list I started with.
Looking at it now I think Cursecatcher is still the best of the one-drops on average, although Dakra Mystic looks very interesting for the slower, more control-ish Merfolk deck with MoW as the bomb I've been wishing for.
In other news, I just made plans for participating in a GP, and even though it's still 5 months away I've been looking at my list a lot again. What would be good to run in a mostly unknown meta? I kind of expect to see a lot of Twin Exarch since it's powerful and fairly cheap to build, probably Storm as well for the same reasons.
The Aitken list is a good place to start, it has a good main deck and a sideboard that covers a pretty wide range of decks in the format. If you decide to play it I would recommend tweaking with the sideboard just a little to fit your preferences. Going into the gp there should hopefully be some previous indications as to what decks will be most popular based on recent tournaments or maybe even another pro tour. If there aren't, I would expect pod decks, splinter twin, affinity, and maybe zoo to be the four most popular decks, assuming no ban changes between now and then. I would be certain that whatever deck you prepare has a clear, defined strategy to beat these 4 decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UMerfolk GBWMelira PodRIP GBW Abzan Midrange GBR Jund Midrange
with a lot of NE players in attendance, I would tune to a slightly heavier control meta rather than aggro and make sure to be able to beat twin unless it dies down in the next few months. NE is always classically heavy on control.
Thanks guys. My list is very similar to Aitken's actually, with the only difference that I run cursecatchers instead of MB tidebinders and thassa (I really dislike Thassa actually). Against what do you board in Chalice though, other than Affinity? I could see putting it on 2 counters versus Storm, but on t4 at its earliest seems kind of unreliable
Generally it's best in matchups where you can set it up on 0 or 1 counters. If you're on the play I'd bring it in against affinity since the potential to eat their 0 drops before they can play them is pretty powerful. It counters Living End and Restore Balance, so they can't cast either without first dealing with chalice. Against a small zoo deck, probably the most likely kind of zoo to beat you, setting it to 1 counter eats nearly every spell in their deck. Other decks chalice @ 1 kills include: boggles, soul sisters, burn, UWR (according to aitken, though I do have my doubts), and infect, and maybe even others I haven't thought of. The biggest problem with chalice is that in faster matchups, such as boggles, infect, and affinity, it's a LOT better on the play than the draw and generally needs to be cast on time to be worthwhile, but if you do cast it on time in the matchups where it's good it basically wins on its own, barring artifact destruction.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern UMerfolk GBWMelira PodRIP GBW Abzan Midrange GBR Jund Midrange
1) It counters all of the annoying things that hurt our deck. Other Merfolk :), Tarmogoyf, Snapcaster, Confidant etc etc.
2) HARD counter.
3) Great early and late and every deck has a target which they lean heavily on.
I want to run 4! Or do I?
Merfolk is one spell away from greatness. Is it cutting Cursecatcher and running Chalice main deck? Is it ??? But the deck seems so powerful and at the same time so weak.
It has weaknesses, like being quite useless late game and not really helping the plan. I will kick around online and see what I find. I know what you mean though. It feels so close to the edge but it is not quite there just yet.
In my experience, I prefer to put more spell pierce rather than Cursecatcher in my merfolk deck but which is better between the two?
Also, I find that adding 1 nykthos can be helpful in this deck.
In regards to Nykthos I, personally, had several thoughts and discoveries:
1. By the time I had enough devotion to make it worthwhile, I had essentially an empty hand.
2. By the time I had enough devotion to make it worthwhile, I was already in control and didn't need the mana.
3. When I really needed the devotion, I didn't have enough on the field to make it wortwhile.
4. If I have a hand with Island/Nykthos as all my lands, it's a risky keep sometimes. If I had double island, I was usually fine.
nykthos seems bad in this deck. Not really a land you want to be playing in the first few turns. Coralhelm is pretty dece regardless of mana, good mana sink when needed, otherwise is still a bear that gives devotion and is a merfolk. Am running 1 md atm but am tempted to go back up to 2.
Spell snare might be a good spell, if I played it I'd prob cut spell pierce and maybe a cursecatcher for it, not sure what else I'd cut.
Dropping Cursecatcher for more (1 mana) counterspells might be a good idea, although I'd never want to go below 24 creatures. Gotta deliver dem beatz
EDIT: something interesting I saw some time ago was a Merfolk player splashing white and running Burrenton Forge-Tender as the 1-drop. Protecting your lords from bolts and Anger could be pretty sweet
I dont really see the purpose of 8 sea effects either, especially since blue is a pretty common color nowadays. However I have always wondered why Spreading Seas has become the standard for Modern Merfolk when Sea's Claim exists AND Merfolk lacks a proper 1-drop. Is the cantrip really worth the tempo loss? I've tried Sea's Claim out a few times but the difference is so small I'd need a huge batch of games before being able to make a conclusion.
Also, I'm trying out Burrenton Forge-Tender on Cockatrice atm. I'll post some results later, this is the list I'm running:
OK, I am in no way advocating the use of snare MD but it is much better than claim. Snare does very little against twin but is still better than claim, turbotwin isn't the preferred version of twin, I wouldn't care about that MU because it's even easier for us, most good players don't use it.
Against affinity snare counters also creatures while spell pierce doesn't, it's maybe the only MU where I would want to have snare more than pierce.
Instead of the claims you could have threats or counters, we wouldn't even be running SSS MD if the meta were as blue heavy as in legacy. We use sss over claim because of the cantrip, drawing cards is something we REALLY need to have, claim does nothing in the late game while sss gives you a card at least.
BTW I see a lot of phantasmal images in here, didn't you have problems with them against twin or control?
Image is pretty weak in both these matchups, you're right, but both of these matchups are already pretty heavily in our favor from the start so having one fairly weak card isn't really a problem. In games 2 and 3 we can replace it with some better cards out of the board. Image helps improve all our other matchups by effectively increasing the lord count in the deck from 12 to 16. I don't know if I really like playing it as a 4-of since it can occasionally be awkward, like when you need merfolk for silvergill or when you don't have vial and are playing it into a 1-creature board, but it's usually pretty strong and playing it as a 4-of really isn't awful.
Also, I think sea's claim is at best a fun way to make your opponent mad rather than a legitimate strategy. I think you need about 25 creatures (merfolk and images) minimum in the deck for the beatdown to be effective and the non-creature space is pretty tight. It could be an interesting strategy out of the board against decks that play a really loose mana base, but it's probably not a legitimate maindeck strategy. Consider that your deck would be playing 8 pieces of LD against your opponents 20+ lands so your chances of consistently land screwing your opponent is minimal. I think trying to include LD in merfolk is just stretching the deck a bit too thin between too many strategies.
Yeah, a funny thing happened on the way to testing Dakra against combo--I started using its ability instead of always swinging with it.
...So Dakra is better overall against combo than Triton Shorestalker is (Dakra is a gazillion times better against board wipes and Cryptic, combo barely plays blockers and tends to spam Islands).
I'm starting to think that the best not-Cursecatcher 1-drop is a meta call.
Cosi's Trickster: Gets fat against Tron/Pod/Scapeshift/maybe UWR (although in my experience with it in a generic Mono-U Devotion deck, it got no bigger than 2/2 on average)
Mothdust Changeling: Can block stuff against UR Delver/Faeries/Twin/Affinity/Tokens/UWR, has Flying (so it has some evasion)
Triton Shorestalker: Is unblockable, so it can break board stalls against Jund/Pod/Faeries/GW Hatebears/Zoo/UWR Midrange/Tokens/Twin/Delver/Living End/Bogles
Dakra Mystic: Draw ability helps break board stalls (and fix bad opening hands) by digging for lords/Spreading Seas/removal, can dig for counterspells/hate (just might help your opponent dig for their win, though, so it's worse against unfair decks than against fair decks)
Note that Triton Shorestalker and Mothdust look pretty lame against combo, heavy control, and Burn (at least Dakra can dig for counterspells), while Cosi's Trickster looks lame against Zoo/Merfolk/GW Hatebears/D&T/Burn/Affinity and might have the most useless body when played late-game, and Dakra comes with no guarantees (so Triton is better overall if all you fear are board stalls, and you'd probably rather play Cosi's Trickster against combo because at least it has a nonzero chance of being a 2/2).
Finally have my first two cavern of souls and immediately threw them into the fish deck. Also got my second force of will yesterday, winning an EDH event, going 4-0 (8-0 in games) with a personalized zoo list. So slowly getting the cards for the legacy list, and even thinking about making a merfolk edh list (really mono blue or blue/white merfolks + usual shenanigans like counterspells, vendillion clique, jitte, jaces and the like).
There is another modern event at my LGS tonight, not sure I will make it since I have a dinner first. Fingers crossed.
When Mystic is out I shall test, but I feel like I will end up back with the same list I started with.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
In other news, I just made plans for participating in a GP, and even though it's still 5 months away I've been looking at my list a lot again. What would be good to run in a mostly unknown meta? I kind of expect to see a lot of Twin Exarch since it's powerful and fairly cheap to build, probably Storm as well for the same reasons.
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh
Merfolk of Pantheon U
Legendary Creature- Merfolk Soldier
Protection from red and white.
Merfolk of Pantheon cannot block.
2/1
haha.
Also, I find that adding 1 nykthos can be helpful in this deck.
1) It counters all of the annoying things that hurt our deck. Other Merfolk :), Tarmogoyf, Snapcaster, Confidant etc etc.
2) HARD counter.
3) Great early and late and every deck has a target which they lean heavily on.
I want to run 4! Or do I?
Merfolk is one spell away from greatness. Is it cutting Cursecatcher and running Chalice main deck? Is it ??? But the deck seems so powerful and at the same time so weak.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
In regards to Nykthos I, personally, had several thoughts and discoveries:
1. By the time I had enough devotion to make it worthwhile, I had essentially an empty hand.
2. By the time I had enough devotion to make it worthwhile, I was already in control and didn't need the mana.
3. When I really needed the devotion, I didn't have enough on the field to make it wortwhile.
4. If I have a hand with Island/Nykthos as all my lands, it's a risky keep sometimes. If I had double island, I was usually fine.
I don't think I personally would run it.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Otherwise you get a 2/2 for UU which is not so good.
Spell snare might be a good spell, if I played it I'd prob cut spell pierce and maybe a cursecatcher for it, not sure what else I'd cut.
EDIT: something interesting I saw some time ago was a Merfolk player splashing white and running Burrenton Forge-Tender as the 1-drop. Protecting your lords from bolts and Anger could be pretty sweet
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
Also, I'm trying out Burrenton Forge-Tender on Cockatrice atm. I'll post some results later, this is the list I'm running:
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Silvergill Adept
3 Phantasmal Image
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
3 Master of Waves
3 Merrow Reejerey
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
Spells
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Pierce
4 Spreading Seas
4 AEther Vial
4 Mutavault
4 Island
4 Wanderwine Hub
4 Seachrome Coast
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Tidebinder Mage
1 Rest in Peace
2 Spellskite
1 Spell Pierce
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Swan Song
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
Image is pretty weak in both these matchups, you're right, but both of these matchups are already pretty heavily in our favor from the start so having one fairly weak card isn't really a problem. In games 2 and 3 we can replace it with some better cards out of the board. Image helps improve all our other matchups by effectively increasing the lord count in the deck from 12 to 16. I don't know if I really like playing it as a 4-of since it can occasionally be awkward, like when you need merfolk for silvergill or when you don't have vial and are playing it into a 1-creature board, but it's usually pretty strong and playing it as a 4-of really isn't awful.
Also, I think sea's claim is at best a fun way to make your opponent mad rather than a legitimate strategy. I think you need about 25 creatures (merfolk and images) minimum in the deck for the beatdown to be effective and the non-creature space is pretty tight. It could be an interesting strategy out of the board against decks that play a really loose mana base, but it's probably not a legitimate maindeck strategy. Consider that your deck would be playing 8 pieces of LD against your opponents 20+ lands so your chances of consistently land screwing your opponent is minimal. I think trying to include LD in merfolk is just stretching the deck a bit too thin between too many strategies.
UMerfolkGBW
Melira PodRIPGBW Abzan Midrange
GBR Jund Midrange
EDH
GBR Prossh