1 mana discard is not soft to remand.
Burn, twin, pod and affinity are not soft to remand.
Not everything is soft to remand.
Getting your titan remanded is pretty terrible.
Since the titan decks have less disruption and filtering they have to race other combo decks. And they're slower than other combo decks since they lack said filtering.
That's why I think the titan version is less played than the cryptic version. If you think my reasoning is wrong please explain why. I don't play the titan version so I could be wrong.
I would definitely play one, possibly two copies of Dig Through Time in this deck. You have to expect to be casting it as a 3 or 4, maybe even 5 drop (you can't legit expect to consistently cast this at UU) but given that it's instant speed, EOT Dig Through Time on their turn 4/5 seems like a pretty strong play.
Dig through time is comparable to gifts except you don't have to play noxious revival.
In my list I will cut my 1 peer through depths for it.
I'm not sure if you have to change Park's mana base. He's only playing 2 fetch lands. Perhaps you don't need to change it to play 1, but if you're playing 2, you might want to play 4 mistys.
Yeah, this might just be better than playing Gifts Ungiven, since it frees up the extra slots you have to devote to recurring stuff from the yard and isn't limited to Instant/Sorcery like Peer Through Depths. Moreover, it would be really tough to play both since you're even weaker to graveyard hate, higher on the mana curve, and don't want to be exiling cards that go to the yard from Gifts. Slightly disappointing since my 3 copies of Gifts are in the mail, but them's the breaks, I guess, and testing still must be done.
The mono U tron match up is close. I'd say scapeshift has a slight edge since it has less dead cards.
If they get turn 3/4 tron and have 2 blue sources it'll be pretty tough to win
If they don't get tron and you out mana them it's pretty easy, you just set it up so you can cast scapeshift with 2-3 counters
The typical mono U tron runs ~9 counters, 4x condescend, 4x remand, and 1x spell burst, if they don't have tron, you should be able to win with double remand back up
Game 1, you just play draw go trying to set up a scapeshift turn with multiple counters, you can also use a cryptic at the end of their turn to bounce their land and choke them off blue or tron mana
The sideboard games are a bit trickier since they don't all run the same list. I had a tron player bring in chalice of the void and jester's cap vs me. Some lists play squelch so i would immediately sacrifice elder if they don't have squelch mana open, i don't think it's worth it trying to attack with elder to get them to 18 and then get blown out by squelch. Some lists also play spell pierce. In the sideboard games you play draw go till you set up a multiple scapeshift + counter hand, but you have to play around their sideboard cards while trying to do it.
I guess the hardest decision is whether or not to remand their thirst for knowledge at the end of your turn (when they have 3-5 lands in play). If you have multiple remands in hand, I would do it. If you have just 1 remand, then it depends on the context of your hand. If you need to dig for a scapeshift or lands, then it's probably correct to remand there. But if your hand is nearly set up to scapeshift them then hold your remand. The only scary cards in the U tron deck are 10 mana plus mind slaver, sundering titan, and sometimes platinum angel, you don't have too much to fear of tapping out if they don't have tron mana. And remember you can't play around everything, sometimes you have to make a play that can lose you the game, that's magic.
Dig is gonna be bonkers in here. Thinking as a 2-of instead of 2 depths. Testing will tell if 1 or 2.
I second this, though I'm running the version with Telling time (within 3 cards of Park's list) so I'd cut that instead obv. The deep dig is still good postboard to find alternate wincons too
Two Digs seems like it might be a little greedy. If your graveyard is empty, it does still cost eight mana. It's a more powerful effect, but much worse in multiples than Peer or Telling Time.
It could be right (we do put a lot of cards in the yard, and I like not showing people what I'm taking), but 2 is the absolute upper limit, I'd think.
The only downside is you can't dig during the first few turns when you peer cos you don't have anything else to do. That's why I'm more inclined to just play 1.
After a bunch of testing with 1 peer through depths in park's list, I'm going to cut it. The times peer finds scapeshift in the 4-6th card from the top of your deck, are not worth it compared to the times you cast it early/mid game.
Park's list has 1-3 less mana sources in it compared to other's lists. When you keep 1-2 landers you want your cantrips to find you lands, and peer through depths doesn't do that unless it finds you a search, but that's just really awkward. Also peer through depths gives your opponent information about your hand, it tells them to play around remand/cryptic/electrolyze, or it lets them know you have the win with scapeshift. And it can also miss.
Obviously i'm going to play a dig through time in that slot. And I will most likely cut the 3rd basic forest for a 3rd misty rainforest. It also might be correct to cut a snapcaster for a sleight of hand and play 2 dig through times.
2 peers 1 dig is fine IMO, the peers now become even more important, since I can search for the dig itself in case I already have a scapeshift or can't find one.
I feel like the opportunity cost of Dig might be too high to make it worthwhile. It makes your Snapcasters worse, has a double blue casting cost which makes casting it and Cryptic (which you will presumably be digging for some of the time) very tough, and if it gets Remanded you've now emptied(or mostly emptied) your graveyard and have a 8 mana spell in your hand. I hope I'm wrong and it's awesome because what it does on resolution is very powerful, but I'm not sold just yet.
rickster, how has Fracturing Gust been for you? I've been considering it.
i'm not sure how dig through time will play out, i'm going to test it, and it seems good enough to try over telling time/peer through depths
fracturing gust is a 1 of, so i rarely get to draw it
i'd say i've drawn it twice in about 50 matches where i brought it in, I got it cliqued out of my hand from a twin player, and the other time i got to kill 4 enchantments and have my clique trade with a bogle
i think i'd rather have it in my board than play 1 shatterstorm or back to nature. I also hate losing to the mono white decks, and fracturing gust is awesome there.
@rickster
It looks like your current list runs the 3 cryptics like Park's. Have you tested a 4th? I know Park/Tian never really said why they cut the fourth, and was wondering if you had any thoughts on it. Thanks
The popular decks that scapeshift struggles against are burn and affinity (which there were lots of in GP Kobe's top 8). The versions of scapeshift without lightning bolt can't interact fast enough with burn/affinities average to good draws. This is especially true when you're on the draw.
Well Ken solved this issue. He plays 4x lightning bolts. Bolt matches up well vs all of burn and affinity's creatures. And he plays spell snare, which is excellent on the draw. The only cards that matter in affinity are the 2 drops, so spell snare is insane there. And spell snare 1 for 1s eidolon without taking damage which is huge.
However these bolts and snares don't replace themselves. And you want to limit the amount of non cantrip, non land, non scapeshift cards to 2-3. Well he somewhat solved this issue by playing Kodama's reach. Kodama's reach is always a 2 for 1.
Yea but these new card draw spells are much better in legacy for a number of reasons. One of those reasons is remand. This means playing a deck with remands in Modern becomes better with Khans.
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Burn, twin, pod and affinity are not soft to remand.
Not everything is soft to remand.
Getting your titan remanded is pretty terrible.
Since the titan decks have less disruption and filtering they have to race other combo decks. And they're slower than other combo decks since they lack said filtering.
That's why I think the titan version is less played than the cryptic version. If you think my reasoning is wrong please explain why. I don't play the titan version so I could be wrong.
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~
In my list I will cut my 1 peer through depths for it.
I'm not sure if you have to change Park's mana base. He's only playing 2 fetch lands. Perhaps you don't need to change it to play 1, but if you're playing 2, you might want to play 4 mistys.
If they get turn 3/4 tron and have 2 blue sources it'll be pretty tough to win
If they don't get tron and you out mana them it's pretty easy, you just set it up so you can cast scapeshift with 2-3 counters
The typical mono U tron runs ~9 counters, 4x condescend, 4x remand, and 1x spell burst, if they don't have tron, you should be able to win with double remand back up
Game 1, you just play draw go trying to set up a scapeshift turn with multiple counters, you can also use a cryptic at the end of their turn to bounce their land and choke them off blue or tron mana
The sideboard games are a bit trickier since they don't all run the same list. I had a tron player bring in chalice of the void and jester's cap vs me. Some lists play squelch so i would immediately sacrifice elder if they don't have squelch mana open, i don't think it's worth it trying to attack with elder to get them to 18 and then get blown out by squelch. Some lists also play spell pierce. In the sideboard games you play draw go till you set up a multiple scapeshift + counter hand, but you have to play around their sideboard cards while trying to do it.
I guess the hardest decision is whether or not to remand their thirst for knowledge at the end of your turn (when they have 3-5 lands in play). If you have multiple remands in hand, I would do it. If you have just 1 remand, then it depends on the context of your hand. If you need to dig for a scapeshift or lands, then it's probably correct to remand there. But if your hand is nearly set up to scapeshift them then hold your remand. The only scary cards in the U tron deck are 10 mana plus mind slaver, sundering titan, and sometimes platinum angel, you don't have too much to fear of tapping out if they don't have tron mana. And remember you can't play around everything, sometimes you have to make a play that can lose you the game, that's magic.
It could be right (we do put a lot of cards in the yard, and I like not showing people what I'm taking), but 2 is the absolute upper limit, I'd think.
Park's list has 1-3 less mana sources in it compared to other's lists. When you keep 1-2 landers you want your cantrips to find you lands, and peer through depths doesn't do that unless it finds you a search, but that's just really awkward. Also peer through depths gives your opponent information about your hand, it tells them to play around remand/cryptic/electrolyze, or it lets them know you have the win with scapeshift. And it can also miss.
Obviously i'm going to play a dig through time in that slot. And I will most likely cut the 3rd basic forest for a 3rd misty rainforest. It also might be correct to cut a snapcaster for a sleight of hand and play 2 dig through times.
rickster, how has Fracturing Gust been for you? I've been considering it.
fracturing gust is a 1 of, so i rarely get to draw it
i'd say i've drawn it twice in about 50 matches where i brought it in, I got it cliqued out of my hand from a twin player, and the other time i got to kill 4 enchantments and have my clique trade with a bogle
i think i'd rather have it in my board than play 1 shatterstorm or back to nature. I also hate losing to the mono white decks, and fracturing gust is awesome there.
It looks like your current list runs the 3 cryptics like Park's. Have you tested a 4th? I know Park/Tian never really said why they cut the fourth, and was wondering if you had any thoughts on it. Thanks
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Flooded Grove
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Mountain
4 Island
3 Forest
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
Spells 29
4 Scapeshift
2 Search for Tomorrow
2 Kodama's Reach
4 Remand
1 Repeal
3 Cryptic Command
2 Spell Snare
3 Telling Time
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Negate
2 Pyroclasm
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Obstinate Baloth
2 Nature's Claim
1 Engineered Explosives
The popular decks that scapeshift struggles against are burn and affinity (which there were lots of in GP Kobe's top 8). The versions of scapeshift without lightning bolt can't interact fast enough with burn/affinities average to good draws. This is especially true when you're on the draw.
Well Ken solved this issue. He plays 4x lightning bolts. Bolt matches up well vs all of burn and affinity's creatures. And he plays spell snare, which is excellent on the draw. The only cards that matter in affinity are the 2 drops, so spell snare is insane there. And spell snare 1 for 1s eidolon without taking damage which is huge.
However these bolts and snares don't replace themselves. And you want to limit the amount of non cantrip, non land, non scapeshift cards to 2-3. Well he somewhat solved this issue by playing Kodama's reach. Kodama's reach is always a 2 for 1.
Also I don't know if anyone ready Carsten Kotter's article on the KTK delve cards, but he's super high on them for legacy. But i don't think thought scour is playable in this deck, milling mountains/valakuts is a real cost.