Lord Seth - do you think you will continue with the same list moving forward? Was the 2-2 split of pryo and firespout where you felt you wanted to be?
Not really sure about the list right now; I like it as a whole, but might make a few tweaks. For example, I'm mulling over the possibility of swapping the Stone Rain for a Beast Within--the big issue with Stone Rain is that it can only save you from the early Karn Liberated if you cast it before the fact, but Beast Within can destroy it after the fact. Considering how much of a game breaker an early Karn Liberated is in the mirror, it's distressing how all of our main cards for the mirror can't actually deal with it once it's on the field, and are only useful before it's cast. Beast Within, meanwhile, takes out the Karn Liberated straightaway, while providing the same land destruction capabilities that Stone Rain does.
I do plan to stick with the split, at least for a while, though.
Incidentally, they put up the Top 16 decklists for the event, so here's the deck list for the other GR Tron player that got into the Top 8 (who was, incidentally, the one I drew against in Round 6):
ok another tourney report here.. played my local on monday kinda rough but i will get to that
so i decided to go 2 spellskite and 3 firespout 2 relic
never ran into zoo actually nobody played it go figure.
round 1 played some homebrew not noteable.. crushed him both games
2-0
1-0
round 2 played a dire match against american control
this guy beat me a few weeks back shouldnt have but he drew 3 tech edge that time lucky!!
ok so basically game 1 he got the nuts draw of 3 cryptic command and never let me get tron
game 2 a little lengthy but i eventually pulled it out
and game 3 turn 4 he sowing salts me despite that i kept pushing forward almost won the game btw thanks to some pretty crafty plays on my part(play needle on his man land)several turns later he taps out to bounce my needle and counter my wurm so with 2 lands left i replay needle with him having one land thinking i got it and of course he plays spell pierce WTF!!! and he finally got there with manlands
1-2
1-1
round 3 played white aggro
karn ftw as always couldnt handle the big guy
2-0
2-1
round 4 played merfolk
really upset at this round acutally should have won but game 3 guy drew the nuts and turn 4 owned me (cant stop 5 lords!!!)
1-2
2-2
terrible day extremely upset at the matchups i had but thats magic!
all in all i really like the split its solid although i wish i could have played zoo to really know
*its not just losing its losing because your opponent drew better than you
So in this new meta, I'm thinking Tron isn't quite as poorly positioned as everyone is imagining. Really the only card that gets worse for us is Pyroclasm, but this can be remedied with with the 2/2 or 3/2 Pyro/Firespout split, or just dropping R altogether and adding in 3 All is Dust and Mishra's Bauble. Defense Grid gets better as a sideboard card and Spellskite gets a bit better as a wall against Zoo or just to eat burn spells from Zoo. I'm liking the Mono-G list that runs 1 Sundering Titan main along with 2 Spellskites MB, seems to be pretty good. Here's my list for comparison:
I need to pick up the rest of the cards on MTGO but I'll be doing some testing this week.
What lands have you tested with? I'm looking at 12x Tron lands, 2x (+ 1x SB) GQ, x1 Eye, x2-3 basics. Is there room for more utility lands? Cavern doesn't feel correct to mainboard (over GQ #3)...
Having a strong Jund match-up was a major selling point to play Tron. Jund is still a contender in modern, and it still packs a favorable zoo match-up (if it goes the Finks/ Huntmaster route), and the absence of Deathrite has reintroduced graveyard strategies back into modern. Anyone who follows tournament reports have already seen decks like Living End, Unburial Gifts, Dredgevine, Gifts Tron, and Zombies pop up in recent MTGO events. RG Tron wrecks these decks, and if these results are foreshadowing the direction in which the meta is going, then Tron will be well positioned regardless if Firespout is played within our 75.
It's arguable to just keep RG Tron the same since the introduction of one unfavorable match-up has reintroduced several favorable match-ups back into the format. And the idea of changing our mainboard around to beat Zoo seems silly since we're making our deck less consistent by playing a more expensive sweeper and cutting down on our can-trip effects for win-more cards like Sundering Titan. That's just my two cents.
Played a few games tonight against modern death and taxes...went 1-2. Wish I coulda played more but my buddy had to go. Needless to say this deck can wreckkkk us. Thalia, Leonin Arbiter, Aven Mindcensor, Dismembers, Path to Exiles, and I believe 4 Ghost Quarters and 2 Tec Edges proved to be quite the hurdle. I drew a firespout and just chuckled at how bad that card is with Thalia and a Mindcensor staring you down. Expedition Map spent the whole game collecting dust, mocking me as it sat on the battlefield basically inoperable. Really like pyroclasm in this spot.
On a brighter note, Faeries seems like complete trash, even with the beloved Bitterblossom. I think most players are writing this deck off as too slow and not good enough. With that being said, Zoo seems to be everywhere, at least on the MTGO rankings.
I think the best thing to do is take Cedric's advice and sit back and wait until the dust settles from the Pro Tour instead of bashing our heads against the wall trying to solve a puzzle we don't even know yet.
Hopefully D&T doesn't win this weekend. I've also been seeing a rising number of Scapeshift decks popping up as well, which makes me want to throw up in my mouth a little bit. Until then, I will continue to bang my head, because I'm an idiot.
Played a few games tonight against modern death and taxes...went 1-2. Wish I coulda played more but my buddy had to go. Needless to say this deck can wreckkkk us. Thalia, Leonin Arbiter, Aven Mindcensor, Dismembers, Path to Exiles, and I believe 4 Ghost Quarters and 2 Tec Edges proved to be quite the hurdle. I drew a firespout and just chuckled at how bad that card is with Thalia and a Mindcensor staring you down. Expedition Map spent the whole game collecting dust, mocking me as it sat on the battlefield basically inoperable. Really like pyroclasm in this spot.
D&T is a massive ***** for this deck to beat, but Pyroclasm becomes amazing if you ever cast it, and they have very few answers to Oblivion Stone.
Are you talking about GW Hatebears (D&T is a monowhite Legacy deck)? That matchup isn't that bad, but you need to know how to navigate around the hate.
I used to run Slaughter Games, but running it pretty much requires you put in a Llanowar Wastes to better enable that Black mana. As I don't think removing a nonland card for it is worth it, that means you pretty much have to take out a Forest for it... which leaves you more vulnerable to Ghost Quarter. I'm more scared of running into Ghost Quarter than Scapeshift, quite honestly.
I think I'd prefer Stone Rain, as it can be cast more reliably. It may only delay them a little, but that's all you sometimes need against the deck. Earlier I posted about using Beast Within instead of Stone Rain in the mirror, and I've been wondering if that's decent also for Scapeshift... it has the issue of giving them a 3/3, which makes them go off a little easier if they connect with it (if they only need to deal 18 damage, they can win off of 7 lands instead of 8), but I like the idea of them casting Scapeshift, bringing in all their lands, and then you hitting one with Beast Within to shut off the combo entirely and make them have just wasted their efforts. Who cares if they get a 3/3 at that point?
But if Scapeshift makes a strong enough comeback, it might be worth considering bringing back Slaughter Games.
I have been running Slaughter Games for a while, (because I'm stupid, it's not really good).
Using 2 Forest, but only 1 Ghost Quarter and a Llanowar wastes, not having the Second Ghost Quarter is a huge issue. Llanowar wastes has been useful as a green source, maybe 1 time, in hundreds of games.
However it gives you a "free win" -almost, against Scapeshift, Storm, Ad Nauseum and some other uncommon decks.
Scapeshift seems to be the only real threat among those, also it's strong in the mirror match.
I've tried to bring in Slaughter Games against twin, but that's a foolish endeavor.
I would like to run Beast Within, it's good against so much hate that people pack. Exploding your own land to fizzle Sowing Salts, another removal for Stony Silence etc.
It gets even better if you run Firespout, at least I would thing so, You probably don't target yourself that often.
The sheer utility of the card is surprising; exploding a Chromatic Star to make a blocker for Snapcaster beat-downs.
I can also imagine it being good against Zoo, sometimes they may not be able to play around a land getting Beasted away, losing some damage while at the same time being put off Boros Charm and set up for a huge Firespout next turn.
While talking about sideboards: Combust is just amazing, always. I wish, playing 4 was possible.
Yeah, the Keyword being "Permanent" is pretty neat. I think I'm going to play some games maining 3/4 Beast Within, as an experiment.
It's hard to think of a case where it isn't at least slightly useful. Firespout being less dead game 1, against creature-less decks also neat.
Maining it, I immagine I'll get to exploit on people getting unlucky with their lands, even.
I don't know what to cut, it kinds of share the same purpose as Oblivion Stone... But, Beast Within and O-stone got too great of a synergy, to not play together.
It excelled at exploding Planeswalkers and Tarmogoyfs that had grown huge.
You know those games where you stick a Karn, but it's just not quite enough? It closed the deal.
Destroying Stony Silence with it felt terrible, I would much rather just have Nature's Claim.
Also got to save a Wurmcoil Engine from Path to Exile, and swing for 9, understandable that my opponent did not play around such an uncommon spell.
Surprising a Dark Confidant attacking was also pretty cool.
Having the Green Mana available, was actually a slight issue.
However the times I really needed beast within, I found myself having green lands. Just natural when stumbling in the T3-Tron plan.
(But, that should never be the goal of a game-plan).
Not really sure about the list right now; I like it as a whole, but might make a few tweaks. For example, I'm mulling over the possibility of swapping the Stone Rain for a Beast Within--the big issue with Stone Rain is that it can only save you from the early Karn Liberated if you cast it before the fact, but Beast Within can destroy it after the fact. Considering how much of a game breaker an early Karn Liberated is in the mirror, it's distressing how all of our main cards for the mirror can't actually deal with it once it's on the field, and are only useful before it's cast. Beast Within, meanwhile, takes out the Karn Liberated straightaway, while providing the same land destruction capabilities that Stone Rain does.
I do plan to stick with the split, at least for a while, though.
Incidentally, they put up the Top 16 decklists for the event, so here's the deck list for the other GR Tron player that got into the Top 8 (who was, incidentally, the one I drew against in Round 6):
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Spellskite
4 Firespout
4 Oblivion Stone
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Karn Liberated
1 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
4 Urza’s Mine
4 Urza’s Power Plant
4 Urza’s Tower
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Torpor Orb
1 Combust
4 Nature’s Claim
2 Sowing Salt
2 Pithing Needle
1 Relic Of Progenitus
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Crucible of Worlds
You can still see my decklist for comparison here.
so i decided to go 2 spellskite and 3 firespout 2 relic
never ran into zoo actually nobody played it go figure.
round 1 played some homebrew not noteable.. crushed him both games
2-0
1-0
round 2 played a dire match against american control
this guy beat me a few weeks back shouldnt have but he drew 3 tech edge that time lucky!!
ok so basically game 1 he got the nuts draw of 3 cryptic command and never let me get tron
game 2 a little lengthy but i eventually pulled it out
and game 3 turn 4 he sowing salts me despite that i kept pushing forward almost won the game btw thanks to some pretty crafty plays on my part(play needle on his man land)several turns later he taps out to bounce my needle and counter my wurm so with 2 lands left i replay needle with him having one land thinking i got it and of course he plays spell pierce WTF!!! and he finally got there with manlands
1-2
1-1
round 3 played white aggro
karn ftw as always couldnt handle the big guy
2-0
2-1
round 4 played merfolk
really upset at this round acutally should have won but game 3 guy drew the nuts and turn 4 owned me (cant stop 5 lords!!!)
1-2
2-2
terrible day extremely upset at the matchups i had but thats magic!
all in all i really like the split its solid although i wish i could have played zoo to really know
*its not just losing its losing because your opponent drew better than you
4 Urzas Tower
4 Urzas Power plant
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Forest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Breeding Pool
4 Karn Liberated
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Expedition Map
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Oblivion Stone
3 Firespout
2 Spellskite
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Pithing Needle
3 Slaughter Games
1 Firespout
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sundering Titan
What lands have you tested with? I'm looking at 12x Tron lands, 2x (+ 1x SB) GQ, x1 Eye, x2-3 basics. Is there room for more utility lands? Cavern doesn't feel correct to mainboard (over GQ #3)...
It's arguable to just keep RG Tron the same since the introduction of one unfavorable match-up has reintroduced several favorable match-ups back into the format. And the idea of changing our mainboard around to beat Zoo seems silly since we're making our deck less consistent by playing a more expensive sweeper and cutting down on our can-trip effects for win-more cards like Sundering Titan. That's just my two cents.
Thank you. I'm hoping the pro tour features some diverse match-ups.
On a brighter note, Faeries seems like complete trash, even with the beloved Bitterblossom. I think most players are writing this deck off as too slow and not good enough. With that being said, Zoo seems to be everywhere, at least on the MTGO rankings.
I think the best thing to do is take Cedric's advice and sit back and wait until the dust settles from the Pro Tour instead of bashing our heads against the wall trying to solve a puzzle we don't even know yet.
Hopefully D&T doesn't win this weekend. I've also been seeing a rising number of Scapeshift decks popping up as well, which makes me want to throw up in my mouth a little bit. Until then, I will continue to bang my head, because I'm an idiot.
D&T is a massive ***** for this deck to beat, but Pyroclasm becomes amazing if you ever cast it, and they have very few answers to Oblivion Stone.
If you can resolve Karn, and since they run Lightning Bolt you easily lose Karn after eating just one land. Scapeshift is a really hard matchup.
Main Deck
60 cards
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Ghost Quarter
15 Plains
2 Tectonic Edge
22 lands
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Blade Splicer
3 Dryad Militant
1 Fiend Hunter
2 Flickerwisp
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
2 Hero of Bladehold
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Restoration Angel
3 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
28 creatures
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
10 other spells
Except I think he ran more than 2 Aven Mindcensors. He also ran 3 Dismember and some number of Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Soldier of the Pantheon, and Restoration Angel from what I remember.
Most Scapeshift lists I've seen don't actually run bolt. It's mostly Pyroclasm and Izzet Charm for creature removal.
I think I'd prefer Stone Rain, as it can be cast more reliably. It may only delay them a little, but that's all you sometimes need against the deck. Earlier I posted about using Beast Within instead of Stone Rain in the mirror, and I've been wondering if that's decent also for Scapeshift... it has the issue of giving them a 3/3, which makes them go off a little easier if they connect with it (if they only need to deal 18 damage, they can win off of 7 lands instead of 8), but I like the idea of them casting Scapeshift, bringing in all their lands, and then you hitting one with Beast Within to shut off the combo entirely and make them have just wasted their efforts. Who cares if they get a 3/3 at that point?
But if Scapeshift makes a strong enough comeback, it might be worth considering bringing back Slaughter Games.
Using 2 Forest, but only 1 Ghost Quarter and a Llanowar wastes, not having the Second Ghost Quarter is a huge issue. Llanowar wastes has been useful as a green source, maybe 1 time, in hundreds of games.
However it gives you a "free win" -almost, against Scapeshift, Storm, Ad Nauseum and some other uncommon decks.
Scapeshift seems to be the only real threat among those, also it's strong in the mirror match.
I've tried to bring in Slaughter Games against twin, but that's a foolish endeavor.
I would like to run Beast Within, it's good against so much hate that people pack. Exploding your own land to fizzle Sowing Salts, another removal for Stony Silence etc.
It gets even better if you run Firespout, at least I would thing so, You probably don't target yourself that often.
The sheer utility of the card is surprising; exploding a Chromatic Star to make a blocker for Snapcaster beat-downs.
I can also imagine it being good against Zoo, sometimes they may not be able to play around a land getting Beasted away, losing some damage while at the same time being put off Boros Charm and set up for a huge Firespout next turn.
While talking about sideboards: Combust is just amazing, always. I wish, playing 4 was possible.
It's hard to think of a case where it isn't at least slightly useful. Firespout being less dead game 1, against creature-less decks also neat.
Maining it, I immagine I'll get to exploit on people getting unlucky with their lands, even.
I don't know what to cut, it kinds of share the same purpose as Oblivion Stone... But, Beast Within and O-stone got too great of a synergy, to not play together.
It excelled at exploding Planeswalkers and Tarmogoyfs that had grown huge.
You know those games where you stick a Karn, but it's just not quite enough? It closed the deal.
Destroying Stony Silence with it felt terrible, I would much rather just have Nature's Claim.
Also got to save a Wurmcoil Engine from Path to Exile, and swing for 9, understandable that my opponent did not play around such an uncommon spell.
Surprising a Dark Confidant attacking was also pretty cool.
Having the Green Mana available, was actually a slight issue.
However the times I really needed beast within, I found myself having green lands. Just natural when stumbling in the T3-Tron plan.
(But, that should never be the goal of a game-plan).